USGA and R&A announce proposal to limit golf ball performance for elite level competition

[WorkItBothWays]

29 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

 

This will accomplish none of their goals and will merely piss off the majority of golfers.  I expect massive push back from OEM's, the PGA tour, and rec golfers. 

I'd like to hear Rory try and offer a detailed explanation on his comment "It will make no difference whatsoever to the average golfer". As much as I value his thoughts this utterance is demonstrably false.
It will change the experience significantly. I doubt many hardcore golfers will exit the sport because of this but its a big alteration.
More needs to be said about the way this has played out, quite deceptive from the governing bodies. Look at the title to this thread, compare and contrast to what is actually going to happen.

[GoGoErky]

3 minutes ago, gvogel said:

And 30% of the balls on today's market would still be conforming.  This may not be enough of a change to satisfy the roll backers, but it is certainly a start.

If that’s the case then why did it get reported earlier in the year when the mlr was announced that none of the balls do and even a ball from almost 30 years ago doesn’t.

They have provided no data or even a list of what balls do. It’s all just them trying to say trust us

[jb93]

10 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

 

 

In each of the survey years, they are measuring the land-use and energy practices of golf facilities.

 

Median Acres of a Golf Course:

2005: 149 acres

2015: 147 acres

2022: 146 acres

 

Golf courses have been getting smaller! SAY WHAT?!!??!

 

Size of Fairways:

2005: 28.8 acres

2015: 27.7 acres

2022: 27.1 acres

 

The amount of land taken up by fairways has been getting smaller!

 

 

If course are more compressed - closer proximity between holes then this could be true and courses could still be longer tee to green.  Plus with watering restrictions then it make sense courses would try to reduce size of fairways and greens requiring water.  Seems like this article is written cleverly to omit any information related to tee-green average length.

[WorkItBothWays]

3 minutes ago, SlothofDespond said:

Morons. Actual literal morons. This effectively lengthens every golf course, makes the game more difficult, will increase round times, and only encourage elite players to increase clubhead speed negating purported reason for the change.

 

A big win for the old dudes who have been trying to force their vision of golf on the world before they drop dead though.

 

 

Also add to that the cost of the game. The price of the equipment has increased dramatically in recent decades but watch the price in the next few years.

[bobfoster]

Don't really get what all the wailing and gnashing of the teeth is all about. The USGA/R&A basically updated the standard we've already played with for almost two decades to adjust for the fairly dramatic technology refinements in clubs and swings (club technology that optimizes driver performance, and swing technology that helps golfers optimize their swings and select the best clubs and shafts). 

 

The current 120/317 ball rule was adopted in 2004. It has governed golf with virtually no complaints. We don't even think about it as a limitation - we just go to the store and buy golf balls. 

 

In 2004, the average driving distance on the PGAT was 287. The 2023 season on tour is now over - average driving distance? 297. There's been about a 10 yard increase in distance (on tour - the numbers are smaller for amateurs) since the current rule was implemented. The new rule will take almost exactly the same distance off. They didn't dramatically change the game - they are merely treading water. 

[Pnwpingi210]

13 minutes ago, WorkItBothWays said:

I'd like to hear Rory try and offer a detailed explanation on his comment "It will make no difference whatsoever to the average golfer". As much as I value his thoughts this utterance is demonstrably false.
It will change the experience significantly. I doubt many hardcore golfers will exit the sport because of this but its a big alteration.
More needs to be said about the way this has played out, quite deceptive from the governing bodies. Look at the title to this thread, compare and contrast to what is actually going to happen.

The average golfer will not miss 3-5 yards.  Tee box move that much daily…..

[gvogel]

55 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

And Keegan Bradley lost 30-40 yards with the proposed specs. That’s alot more than 8-11 yards they claim and Keegan is probably in that 110 range based on his 305 avg distance 

 

they should have provided all their test data showing the actual numbers from those various groups. But I doubt they actually have any

Keegan is a cry baby and prone to exaggeration.  30% of the present balls on the market will still be conforming.  He should have tried a Bridgestone Tour BRXS, which I bet is conforming.

[jholz]

If the issue really is about golf courses, and it's really just about "elite level golf," then I say limit the provisions to those specific circumstances. 

 

Introduce a limited flight ball that could be used for major competitions played at specific (shorter) courses.

 

The rule would be limited to the specific competition and course, and would apply to everyone playing.  

[MattC555]

[dcmidnight]

I'll summarize the TM/Titleist/Bridgestone statements so far from what I've seen:

 

"Much like you we are really really really mad about this. But in the end we will do what the USGA wants like we always do. And since pros dont pay for golf balls, you the general consumer can look forward to eating the cost increase of all of our R&D."

[cradd10]

Seems to me if the major ball manufacturers would just ban together and say we are not changing and continue to produce the same ball as today this would be dead on arrival.....

[Swisher]

2 hours ago, clevited said:

 

Define longer irons

Define obsolete

A 5 iron
St Andrews

[GoGoErky]

17 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Keegan is a cry baby and prone to exaggeration.  30% of the present balls on the market will still be conforming.  He should have tried a Bridgestone Tour BRXS, which I bet is conforming.

Which balls? And it’s a contradiction from what shackleford reported and I’m guessing that he talked to all the OEMs.

 

and if it’s balls like the Kirkland then the distance loss is going to be higher for a lot of people

 

A ball from 28 years ago isn’t conforming. Highly unlikely a tour related ball like brxs is

Edited December 6, 2023 by GoGoErky

[WorkItBothWays]

13 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

The average golfer will not miss 3-5 yards.  Tee box move that much daily…..

What?! Yeah when tee boxes move (say 4 yards) on the course I play many holes play significantly different so it's a big enough change that it will be missed. I don't see how it can be claimed otherwise.

[clevited]

8 minutes ago, Swisher said:

A 5 iron
St Andrews

 

So everyone hits a 5 iron?  How would that happen?

St Andrews what?  Define obsolete.

[Pnwpingi210]

3 minutes ago, WorkItBothWays said:

What?! Yeah when tee boxes move (say 4 yards) on the course I play many holes play significantly different so it's a big enough change that it will be missed. I don't see how it can be claimed otherwise.

Do you not play on the days it’s they move them 4 yards longer?

 

maybe it matters on a 120-180 yard par 3 if there is a forced carry, but it’s going to make no difference to your average golfer if the par 4 is 382 or 386.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Pnwpingi210

[bobfoster]

16 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

The average golfer will not miss 3-5 yards.  Tee box move that much daily…..

 

1 minute ago, WorkItBothWays said:

What?! Yeah when tee boxes move (say 4 yards) on the course I play many holes play significantly different so it's a big enough change that it will be missed. I don't see how it can be claimed otherwise.

Tee boxes moving 4 yards means you play the course (or even a single hole) "significantly differently". Seriously?

[WorkItBothWays]

1 minute ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Do you not play on the days it’s they move them 4 yards longer?

Yes I do. Strange you assumed I was referring to tees only being moved up. 4 yards longer (or shorter for balance) changes the make up of a golf hole significantly even for an average golfer.

I've been a member at the same club for 35 years and 4 yards will make a big difference on the majority of holes. Yes we'll have to adapt but thats not the point I'm making.

[cardia10]

It is interesting that the USGA's own biased survey revealed 90% of the golfing population thought distance was not an issue yet they continue to create solutions in search of a problem. If they think saving 150 yards in total length is going to save their 10 antiquated over used courses they are beholden to, they will be sadly mistaken. The beautiful thing is that companies, science and engineering will make them pay. The groove rule is the prime example that the USGA and R&A completely failed in their constant attempts. 

[Swisher]

7 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

So everyone hits a 5 iron?  How would that happen?

St Andrews what?  Define obsolete.

Not sure why you're being difficult. Shorter drives will lead to longer irons being hit into par fours/fives. That's a fact.

St. Andrews can't buy any more land to make their course longer. Scores are becoming ridiculous around there.

If you're struggling with definitions, a dictionary is a good place to start. 

[trebleclef]

So how do manufacturers limit distance? More spin? Softer cores? Both? 

 

Me losing 5 yards off the tee doesn't mean much to my game where I lose most strokes from about 30 yards in. 

 

But I get both sides of the argument.  

[MattC555]

32 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

The current 120/317 ball rule was adopted in 2004. It has governed golf with virtually no complaints. We don't even think about it as a limitation - we just go to the store and buy golf balls.

 

Why change a rule that works this well?

[cardia10]

25 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Keegan is a cry baby and prone to exaggeration.  30% of the present balls on the market will still be conforming.  He should have tried a Bridgestone Tour BRXS, which I bet is conforming.

Yet a 30 year old Titleist Professional would not be conforming? Again, the USGA will be nothing more than inconsistent in the numbers, delivery and the truth. That is their history.

[dcmidnight]

1 minute ago, Swisher said:

St. Andrews can't buy any more land to make their course longer. Scores are becoming ridiculous around there.

 

ROFL. When? The once every five years the pros play there? Please explain.

 

I spent 8 days in StA and player the Old Course - not one single time did I hear someone talk about how their trip would have been awesome but they hit the ball too far and the course is just too short for them. Not once.

[Swisher]

19 hours ago, clevited said:

 

This has already been answered.  It would be incredibly unfair to punish disproportionately the long players.  You want to see some rage, watch what happens if the USGA does exactly that.

Define rage.

[Yacho]

17 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

and if it’s balls like the Kirkland then the distance loss is going to be higher for a lot of people

 

Yep. The current K-sig is the gold standard model for the new conforming rollback ProV1x.  Enjoy!

[Swisher]

Just now, dcmidnight said:

 

ROFL. When? The once every five years the pros play there? Please explain.

 

I spent 8 days in StA and player the Old Course - not one single time did I hear someone talk about how their trip would have been awesome but they hit the ball too far and the course is just too short for them. Not once.

The pros play there every year. Dunhill. 

[bekgolf]

Just now, Swisher said:

The pros play there every year. Dunhill. 

 

Why would they play an obsolete course?

[Zitlow]

You will hit it shorter and be happy. 

[MattC555]

7 minutes ago, Swisher said:

Not sure why you're being difficult. Shorter drives will lead to longer irons being hit into par fours/fives. That's a fact.

St. Andrews can't buy any more land to make their course longer. Scores are becoming ridiculous around there.

If you're struggling with definitions, a dictionary is a good place to start. 

 

St. Andrews played at 7313 yards for the 150th open.  It is more than long enough. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by MattC555