USGA and R&A announce proposal to limit golf ball performance for elite level competition

[ThinkingPlus]

6 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Glad someone can keep their sense of humor.

Dark humor comes easy these days. Crying all day certainly doesn't help so...

[gvogel]

1 minute ago, ThinkingPlus said:

His swing with the woods is fabulous. With wedge, not so much. At least not always.

He still makes it look easier than anyone else.  The mark of the very best at whatever endeavor.  
 

he doesn’t have the killer instinct.  But I would rather watch his game than anyone else.  We had Tiger; we have Rory.  We have been blessed.

[gvogel]

4 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Dark humor comes easy these days. Crying all day certainly doesn't help so...

I’m sorry.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, Golferpaul said:

Not true at all.  If I lose 11 yards with my driver I will quit the game.  I'm already playing the white tees.

If you're playing from the whites there's no chance of losing 11 yards. Look at the chart. 

 

No you are NOT quiting golf because of the ball change! 

[mizuno player]

I may have misunderstood. 10/15 yards less is with the "new" ball? 

 

What is the expectation of reducing the distance the ball travels?  Besides less distance.

 

Higher scores? 

More courses can be used? 

Making it so the highest swing speed players have an even bigger advantage?

 

I just completely do not get this. Admittedly I'm not as smart as the governing bodies. They should have done just like they did with drives. Cap the specs where they are now. 

 

I'm actually surprised they didn't say a player had to use a specific ball so that all drives went the same distance regardless of SS... Make golf as fun a NASCAR is now.  That would have as much sense, NOT, as what they are doing now. 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

https://media.titleist.com/images/titleist/files/US/AcushnetLetterResponseto3-14-23Notice-Comment-8-14-23.pdf
 

Some interesting dat points that debunk the narrative of course length, speed and distance. 

[mosesgolf]

Not too crazy about the ruling but then again as I've gotten older maybe I'll lose about 5 yards.  I can live with that.  IMO scoring won't change with the new ball and equipment manufacturers will likely make lower spinning more forgiving clubs by 2030 anyhow.

[ThinkingPlus]

Has anyone heard whether the estimated impact to distance calcs shown by the ruling bodies assumes all those various swing speeds and distance reductions are using the same tour level performance ball? Or are the ruling bodies assuming lower swing speed players switch to a low compression, less spinny ball to limit the distance reductions?

[GoGoErky]

2 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Has anyone heard whether the estimated impact to distance calcs shown by the ruling bodies assumes all those various swing speeds and distance reductions are using the same tour level performance ball? Or are the ruling bodies assuming lower swing speed players switch to a low compression, less spinny ball to limit the distance reductions?

Haven’t seen anything related to that. Not much really shared about their testing or the data. Would be nice if they shared that along with the list of the 30% of balls that conform now

[dekez]

Dont forget that you will lose distance on ALL your shots, not just the driver.  I dont know if the impact is linear, but if it is all of your shots will be about 4.166% lower (5/120 = .04166).  Take whatever length course you are playing and divide it by 0.95833 and that is its new playing length.  A 6,400 yard course will now play 6,678.  That is a noticeable difference.  Essentially moving back a tee.

 

Let me know if my logic / math is flawed.

[ThinkingPlus]

Just now, dekez said:

Dont forget that you will lose distance on ALL your shots, not just the driver.  I dont know if the impact is linear, but if it is all of your shots will be about 4.166% lower (5/120 = .04166).  Take whatever length course you are playing and divide it by 0.95833 and that is its new playing length.  A 6,400 yard course will now play 6,678.  That is a noticeable difference.  Essentially moving back a tee.

 

Let me know if my logic / math is flawed.

They will.

[bekgolf]

19 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Has anyone heard whether the estimated impact to distance calcs shown by the ruling bodies assumes all those various swing speeds and distance reductions are using the same tour level performance ball? Or are the ruling bodies assuming lower swing speed players switch to a low compression, less spinny ball to limit the distance reductions?

 

There was a PGA guy (sorry, forgot the name) on TGC who stated that the data was cherry picked.  He said this when one of the GC personalities (Maybe Lerner?) asked about Keegan Bradley claiming a 40 yard loss.  He went on to say that every pro has a launch monitor on the range and that it's their business to know exactly how far the ball goes with each club, the pros know what they are talking about.

 

I'm sure there is more to come.  My hope (just speculating for discussion purposes) is that when they showed the lower swing speeds not losing distance it wasn't cherry picked by testing a ball that lower swing speeds wouldn't use and the same for the higher swing speeds.  Edit: Too much speculation.

 

I really hope they release the data they claimed to have.  If it supports their position I'd think they would of already released it.

Edited December 7, 2023 by bekgolf

[Soloman1]

I hope the USGA isn’t reading this, but a lot of people think the lawnmower has had just as significant an effect on golf.

 

I hope we don’t see this:

 

USGA Announces Higher Fairway Grass Height Standards (and Windmills)

[bcjim]

I want to know which balls are in the 30% of current balls that would pass the new tests. Anyone know?

[Lefors]

So stupid - easiest way to handle this would have been to not allow Pro's to use tee pegs.  Problem solved - zero cost, easy to enforce and no change for amateurs

[EagleGSU]

56 minutes ago, bcjim said:

I want to know which balls are in the 30% of current balls that would pass the new tests. Anyone know?

I want to know this too. But I doubt they'll say. Might be a bad look to come out and say "these are the balls that suck and will work." lol

 

 

[bekgolf]

4 minutes ago, EagleGSU said:

I want to know this too. But I doubt they'll say. Might be a bad look to come out and say "these are the balls that suck and will work." lol

 

 

 

It's also a bad look if they made it up based on extrapolated data points.

 

If they really knew they would of released the list.  I don't believe a thing they say in regards to this "problem".

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, CDLgolf said:

 

But how do they know this if the new balls haven't been invented yet.

Exactly. The USga etc don’t “ know “ anything. They hypothesize that the ball manufacturers will be able to do xyz .    We can’t make an electric car that is cleaner to power and more recyclable than 1968 , and im expected to believe they’ve made a golf ball with targeted handicapping properties?  Come on.  Let’s at least make the lie believable. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by bladehunter

[Chunkitgood]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the USGA for having the integrity and courage to do the right thing in the face of considerable opposition from some powerful forces in the game, and facing down a considerable amount of unfounded invective and outright ignorance, stupidity, and greed in the process.

 

We are now hearing about hiding data and cherry picking from the “longer, higher, straighter with every new model” crowd and its sycophants.  Please give me a break.

 

Pro golfers can do whatever they want, flout the rules…if they can find a course that will let them do it…or they can go park cars, about the only other things most are qualified to do.  Either way they are no longer playing golf.

 

To play bogey golf, you only have to get on the green in regulation plus one.  The vast majority of people cannot even play bogey golf.  People who can’t do that have much bigger problems than losing a few yards and having their 210 yard drives go only 200 yards and whether their third shot on a par 4 is 50 or 100 yards short, because they mostly can’t get on the green from either distance.

 

Shorter balls may be the best thing to happen in 30 years if it makes people learn how to use the club or quit.

 

 

[dwboston]

Golf Channel keeps running a "Breaking News" crawl that claims the longest Tour pros will see a 10-15 yard distance loss post-rollback, 9-11 yards for most Tour pros, 5-7 yards for female pros, while amateurs will only lose 5 yards, as it's all "proportional to swing speed".  That seems...unlikely.... to be the case in reality, and the people that can least afford to lose distance (LPGA pros and amateurs) will be hurt the most.  

 

It also seems unlikely that this is implemented as/is in 2028 with no changes or alterations.  A lot can happen in 5 years.  The USGA and R&A may have overplayed their hand here.  Mike Whan is blinking more than a POW in a propaganda video in this interview.

Edited December 7, 2023 by dwboston

[Pnwpingi210]

3 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Has anyone heard whether the estimated impact to distance calcs shown by the ruling bodies assumes all those various swing speeds and distance reductions are using the same tour level performance ball? Or are the ruling bodies assuming lower swing speed players switch to a low compression, less spinny ball to limit the distance reductions?

They are assuming you will play ball that fits your swing speed, whatever that is.

[bladehunter]

18 minutes ago, dwboston said:

Golf Channel keeps running a "Breaking News" crawl that claims the longest Tour pros will see a 10-15 yard distance loss post-rollback, 9-11 yards for most Tour pros, 5-7 yards for female pros, while amateurs will only lose 5 yards, as it's all "proportional to swing speed".  That seems...unlikely.... to be the case in reality, and the people that can least afford to lose distance (LPGA pros and amateurs) will be hurt the most.  

 

It also seems unlikely that this is implemented as/is in 2028 with no changes or alterations.  A lot can happen in 5 years.  The USGA and R&A may have overplayed their hand here.  Mike Whan is blinking more than a POW in a propaganda video in this interview.

Agree there Whan even slipped up one time and said “ these proposals- er I mean decisions “.  I laughed to myself.  Freudian slip me thinks.  They ain’t done with this.  The heat will get turned up , and these silly people will start trying to appease.  Usga membership tags are being mailed toward New Jersey right now. 

[Pnwpingi210]

58 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the USGA for having the integrity and courage to do the right thing in the face of considerable opposition from some powerful forces in the game, and facing down a considerable amount of unfounded invective and outright ignorance, stupidity, and greed in the process.

 

We are now hearing about hiding data and cherry picking from the “longer, higher, straighter with every new model” crowd and its sycophants.  Please give me a break.

 

Pro golfers can do whatever they want, flout the rules…if they can find a course that will let them do it…or they can go park cars, about the only other things most are qualified to do.  Either way they are no longer playing golf.

 

To play bogey golf, you only have to get on the green in regulation plus one.  The vast majority of people cannot even play bogey golf.  People who can’t do that have much bigger problems than losing a few yards and having their 210 yard drives go only 200 yards and whether their third shot on a par 4 is 50 or 100 yards short, because they mostly can’t get on the green from either distance.

 

Shorter balls may be the best thing to happen in 30 years if it makes people learn how to use the club or quit.

 

 

I agree that most higher handicap people I play with get to within 15 yards of the green in 2-4 strokes.  The larger problem is it takes them another 3-5 stokes to get it in the hole from 15 yards.  This ball rollback won’t impact that one bit.

[bekgolf]

4 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I agree that most higher handicap people I play with get to within 15 yards of the green in 2-4 strokes.  The larger problem is it takes them another 3-5 stokes to get it in the hole from 15 yards.  This ball rollback won’t impact that one bit.

All I get from your post is "screw the little people, they don't deserve good balls"

 

Are you this arrogant all the time or just on a golf forum? 

 

Keep telling us that we don't need what you want to ban, I'm sure the affected people will agree, lol.  If we didn't need it then it wouldn't matter if we didn't have it.  *we is all the golfers po'ed at this crazy decision from the organization we pay to keep the game fair. 
 

[ThinkingPlus]

17 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

They are assuming you will play ball that fits your swing speed, whatever that is.

I play ProV1X because it is the longest off the tee, yet still provides the spin needed to hold greens. My CHS is around 88 - 90 mph. I don't use marshmallows that don't spin. Per all the testing that I have seen, high compression is best for all swing speeds if you still want spin to hold greens.

[bekgolf]

17 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

They are assuming you will play ball that fits your swing speed, whatever that is.

Enlighten us, what ball should we play base on driver swing speed?  How about wedge loft and swing speed?, how about scoring irons like 8i?, how about long irons?  What if poa has crept into the greens?  What ball for that?

 

You seem to know so stop keeping it to yourself,  what ball should we play? 

 

You have already told us the ball we shouldn't play so surely you know what all of us   should be playing.

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, bekgolf said:

All I get from your post is "screw the little people, they don't deserve good balls"

 

Are you this arrogant all the time or just on a golf forum? 

 

Keep telling us that we don't need what you want to ban, I'm sure the affected people will agree, lol.  If we didn't need it then it wouldn't matter if we didn't have it.  *we is all the golfers po'ed at this crazy decision from the organization we pay to keep the game fair. 
 

Im definitely not implying screw the little people they don’t deserve good balls.  My point was losing 3-9 yards (from what we know now) isn’t going to significantly impact the scores of the high handicap golfers I play with.
 

  Everybody is losing yards if they choose a “good ball”.   It sounds like the USGA and RA are hopefully Slow swing speeds will impacted less than 120 + swing speeds.

 

of course this all assumes that golf companies can’t or won’t develop a good ball optimized for slower swing speeds in the next 3-4 years.

 

To me a good ball is one that fits the game you want to play.  We all get to define that for ourselves.

[dwboston]

Both the PGA of America and the PGA Tour have issues with the methodology.  PGA of America specifically mentions the detrimental impact to recreational golfers and recommends that the swing speed used for the test needs to be moderated.  There's no way this gets implemented in its current form.  

[Pnwpingi210]

4 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

Enlighten us, what ball should we play base on driver swing speed?  How about wedge loft and swing speed?, how about scoring irons like 8i?, how about long irons?  What if poa has crept into the greens?  What ball for that?

 

You seem to know so stop keeping it to yourself,  what ball should we play? 

 

You have already told us the ball we shouldn't play so surely you know what all of us   should be playing.

I was repeating verbatim what the head of the USGA or RA said on an interview today on. Golf central.  His words not mine 
 

If you are asking me - We all get to decide what ball fits our game.

[bekgolf]

1 minute ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Im definitely not implying screw the little people they don’t deserve good balls.  My point was losing 3-9 yards (from what we know now) isn’t going to significantly impact the scores of the high handicap golfers I play with.
 

  Everybody is losing yards if they choose a “good ball”.   It sounds like the USGA and RA are hopefully Slow swing speeds will impacted less than 120 + swing speeds.

 

of course this all assumes that golf companies can’t or won’t develop a good ball optimized for slower swing speeds in the next 3-4 years.

 

To me a good ball is one that fits the game you want to play.  We all get to define that for ourselves.

 

Three to nine yards is a big deal and a huge variance no matter what the USGA HC Index is.

 

In basic terms it's a miss from 9 to 27 feet!  Your playing partners will notice this when playing unless they aren't playing for score.