More distance from wedges

[Dewdman42]

I recently picked up new irons.  Mizuno 923 Tours.  Love them so far.  However I do have a pretty decent gap between PW and GW and not sure how I should deal with it..it could definitely be my swing.  Any tips welcome.

 

My current gappings are as follows, but I note I will be measuring it again after i get more rounds and accustomed to them and also indoor without wind:

 

EDIT: the following chart is out to date, see the following post for more up to date chart after discussion: https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1950696-more-distance-from-wedges/?do=findComment&comment=24923590

 

 

Club	Loft	Carry	Total
3h		200	230
4h		188	203
5i	27	179	187
6i	30	177	186
7i	34	165	175
8i	38	154	162
9i	42	144	149
PW	46	134	137
GW	51	116	117
SW 54	54	100	101
			6
LW 58	58	85	86

 

There is 5 degree difference between PW and GW in the 923Tours which might explain part of it but I don't want to bend the GW up to 50 or anything because I also have a pretty big gap getting down to my 54 wedge, etc.  

 

From a technique perspective what I observe in myself is that I am pretty strong with my mid irons in terms of distance, but then when I get down to the GW and the shorter vokeys...my carry falls off a cliff.  My heights in all cases are pretty consistent around 28 yards.  I don't know if it's the shorter shafts that are causing this gap from PW down to all my wedges or if I am unable to get enough shaft lean with those shorter clubs or what.  so from a technique perspective, looking for any general advice without seeing video of mys wing, for how to get a little more distance out of the wedges in a reliable and consistent way.

 

Second to that would be general advice about dealing with this gapping in and around the wedges in general.  I can choke up and 3/4 swing my PW now to get my 125ish shots...ok...  though I'd would prefer to be able to have a good full swing 125 shot.  but maybe that is the answer?  Or should I start bending my clubs (after I get more rounds to make sure about the gaps).   Or should I change my vokeys....and/or consider a tweener wedge while giving up my 3W (not listed)?  

 

The gap between my 54 and GW is not too terrible, 15 yards...I would prefer 10-12.  But the gap between my PW and GW is very problematic and its a crucial distance.

 

any thoughts welcome thanks.

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Dewdman42

[tatertot]

The 36 yard gap between your 46 and 54 seems substantial ... The gap between my 48 and 56 is 15.

Edited July 28, 2023 by tatertot

[Dewdman42]

I agree, that's why I am asking.  the real big gap for me though is 20 yards between the PW and GW...both Mizuno 923 Tour irons.

 

[getitdaily]

Your carey numbers for pw and gw are exactly the same as mine and I don't have any issues. 

 

1/2 pw goes 123ish. I can play the ball back a touch and get my 50 (bent to 51) to carry 120-122. 

 

I go 54-60 and Your numbers on those are a bit short compared to mine.

 

Could be a bounce issue.

[ferrispgm]

Honestly.....you are hitting the wedges too hard if that's your carry.  For reference, my 5 iron is 200-205....My pw is 130-135 and my LW is 85.  If you want to be more consistent, try backing off a bit. 

[Sean124]

Going purely off numbers, I’d probably bend 6-PW a degree or so weak. 

[ac6]

9 minutes ago, ferrispgm said:

Honestly.....you are hitting the wedges too hard if that's your carry.  For reference, my 5 iron is 200-205....My pw is 130-135 and my LW is 85.  If you want to be more consistent, try backing off a bit. 

 

+1, I think OP's issue here is not the wedge carry distances, those gaps look just fine to me and the short irons go reasonable distances. It's that his gaps in the long irons start to break down. 6 and 8 yard carry gaps between 5-6-7 are the real problem here

[SNIPERBBB]

I replaced the set GW wedge in my hot metals to a 48* vokey. Sure It might of messed with the gapping but I preferred the versatility with the 3/4 and half swing shots  over the set wedge.

 

Never liked set gap wedges of any set. 

[Ironzol24]

Agree with others, those are my exact stock wedge numbers and then your numbers tend to taper off as you go up in the set. I think you could consider bending 6I and down 1* weak and that'll give you some spacing off the 5 Iron and then bring some more numbers in play through the bag and maybe tighten the gaps up at the bottom. 

[Dewdman42]

I wasn't asking about the top end of my range, that is a separate topic, I am planning to get a hybrid or two and these are new irons I am still getting used to the 6i and 5i and hope to improve their numbers a smidgeon anyway but likely I am going to get the JPX Fli Hi 5h and 4h to go with the set....but I need to try them first...but anyway that is not what I asked about right now, I can and will come back to that topic later.......  

 

I'm asking about the short end gapping and particularly anything related to technique adjustments in the wedge full swing range.  Is it then typical and normal for people to play their wedges with 20 yard gaps and change their swing to make up for it?  I feel like when I get below PW, my distances start to fall off faster than the lofts do and these bigger gaps in the particular ranges that kind of matter the most seems less than optimal..  I'm pretty sure this is related to the shaft getting shorter and just hitting some kind of threshold probably related to shaft lean at impact.  There is no question that 7,8,9 are my favorite clubs to hit.  Its possibly I could back off on those three in order to bring them down a bit, strive for 11ish yard gaps, and try to get my 9, and PW down a bit from where it is not as my "standard" full swing.  But I don't particularly think I am swinging the hell out of anything.  my 7i clubhead speed is around 85 give or take.

 

Today at the range I worked exclusively on my 6i and PW,GW,54.  my 6i carry is now at 177 today.  

 

I was able to add 5 yards to both GW and 54 by getting my hands lower and moving the ball one ball forward encourage a better weight shift.  That helps.  I still have a  pretty decent hole around 125 though.  Obviously I can 3/4 swing my PW to accomplish it, that is in fact what I am doing now, but I find my consistency difficult that way.   Also my 54 seems to have two extremes...I can lower my hands, shift left and hit the hell out of it 110, or mis hit 100, but it's VERY hard for me to hit 105 consistently with it.  So currently those are my two main gaps, 125 and 105.

 

Yellow = 54

Orange = GW.  Note the picture shows total distance not carry

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Dewdman42

[Dewdman42]

2 hours ago, Ironzol24 said:

Agree with others, those are my exact stock wedge numbers and then your numbers tend to taper off as you go up in the set. I think you could consider bending 6I and down 1* weak and that'll give you some spacing off the 5 Iron and then bring some more numbers in play through the bag and maybe tighten the gaps up at the bottom. 

 

I intend to either improve my 5i strikes (its a new set) and/or get the 5h, I agree right now 6i and 5i are too close together,  why I had them colored beige in the chart above.  

 

Today I got my 6i to a pretty reliable 177 carry.  I didn't work with the 5i today. 

 

anyway, I was hoping to discuss the short end of the bag right now...

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Id recommend learning to hit those 3/4 shots more consistently. It's well worth learning because those reduced yardage shots at extremely useful and part of the recipe of going low.  If you tend to flip this will be a bit of an uphill battle, been there done that.

 

Do you play one course most of the time or do you play a variety regularly? If you play one course all the time  adjust your clubs based on your common yardages for approaches. 

 

I don't get caught up much in gapping at the low end of the bag , I'm more worried about the versatility of the clubs at the bottom of the bag moreso than what the gaps on paper are. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by SNIPERBBB

[jgallant415]

Have you gotten the specs on the new set checked? The 5 degree gap is already pretty big, so it the PW is a hair strong and the GW is a hair weak that could explain a lot of it. I just got a new set of 225s that were ordered 2* weak and while the 4-9i were spot on, the PW was stock loft so I only had a 3 degree gap. Mizuno is a bit of a $h!tshow right now, so wouldn't be shocked if mistakes were made...

 

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, Dewdman42 said:

I agree, that's why I am asking.  the real big gap for me though is 20 yards between the PW and GW...both Mizuno 923 Tour irons.

 

Are you tall ?   I see this most often with clubs that are too short for people.  There’s a line within a set where some clubs are good and some are too short.  

[Cwebb]

I'd start by moving your Pw to 47*.  Also make sure to have your other wedges and irons measured for actual loft.  Do not assume that they are exactly what is stamped on them

[naj959]

I think a set PW and a specialty GW are two different animals and that may contribute to why we see a large gap between the two. A PW is more like a 10 iron than an actual wedge. The weighting is different and our mindset while swinging each may be different as well. I hit my PW 120 yards and my GW 100 yards on a stock comfortable swing. I don't think a twenty yard gap is unusual and being able to take 10 off the PW consistently is a skill every good wedge player should have. 

[Dewdman42]

1 hour ago, jgallant415 said:

Have you gotten the specs on the new set checked? The 5 degree gap is already pretty big, so it the PW is a hair strong and the GW is a hair weak that could explain a lot of it. I just got a new set of 225s that were ordered 2* weak and while the 4-9i were spot on, the PW was stock loft so I only had a 3 degree gap. Mizuno is a bit of a $h!tshow right now, so wouldn't be shocked if mistakes were made...

 

 

interesting to hear.  I will definitely get them checked.  Also the shaft lengths and lies then.  Mine were all ordered standard i only specified the shaft to use (Project X IO 6.0).   So i doubt they screwed that up, but it's certainly worth looking into.  I'm not opposed to bending my PW or GW at some point, but not until I've swung them a bit to be sure that is what I would want.  

 

I am right now just trying to establish a "baseline" with reasonable gaps.  Adjusting my swing for partial swings, etc..is the obvious effort required beyond that, but first I just want to have a baseline understanding of what my "normal", "standard" full swing is for each club..with as close as possible to good gaps.  I'd prefer to be in the range of 10-12 yards, and in some cases 15, but 20....I don't like.  

 

Main reason I asked on this technique forum is to see if there is something i am missing technique-wise with my short irons that would cause their distances to drop so low compared to mid irons.  In addition to the higher loft, they have shorter shafts which may be making it harderr for me to have shaft lean at impact.  

 

The gap from PW to GW is quite large.  it is a 5 degree difference in loft and it would not kill me to bring that one 1 degree stronger to 50...I'm not really sure why Mizuno designed the set that way.   That will help some, but still probably going to be a little bit big gap there...and of course if I bend the GW up to 50, then I'll have a bigger gap gap going down to my 54 wedge.  I'm pretty sure I would rather have the GW at 50, so that will probably happen.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Dewdman42

[Dewdman42]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Are you tall ?   I see this most often with clubs that are too short for people.  There’s a line within a set where some clubs are good and some are too short.  

 

5'9".  I used a fitter.  standard length and lie.  

[Dewdman42]

1 hour ago, Cwebb said:

I'd start by moving your Pw to 47*.  Also make sure to have your other wedges and irons measured for actual loft.  Do not assume that they are exactly what is stamped on them

 

Thanks I am definitely going to have them measured to check that.  I think it's probably a decent idea to bump the PW to 47 and the GW to 50.   But first I want to make sure I'm not missing any technique in my short irons.  Also I want to get all my distances with a better launch monitor like trackman or GCQuad to be sure I'm looking at accurate numbers.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Dewdman42

[Dewdman42]

1 hour ago, naj959 said:

I think a set PW and a specialty GW are two different animals and that may contribute to why we see a large gap between the two. A PW is more like a 10 iron than an actual wedge. The weighting is different and our mindset while swinging each may be different as well. I hit my PW 120 yards and my GW 100 yards on a stock comfortable swing. I don't think a twenty yard gap is unusual and being able to take 10 off the PW consistently is a skill every good wedge player should have. 

 

The GW is included my 923Tour set.  It looks and feels entirely just like the PW...but with a loft of 51.

[naj959]

27 minutes ago, Dewdman42 said:

 

The GW is included my 923Tour set.  It looks and feels entirely just like the PW...but with a loft of 51.

Oh I didn't see that. I'd still argue you're gapping isn't that bad. Any larger and I could see there being an issue. Loft adjustment would be the only real option to narrow the gap. Do you have a high and floaty ball flight with your wedges?

[phizzy30]

I suggest bending your gap wedge 1-2* stronger which should close the gap distance wise between your GW and PW. 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Dewdman42 said:

 

5'9".  I used a fitter.  standard length and lie.  

Huh.  Well. That covers that base.  Thanks for the info.  
 

Maybe it’s a bounce issue ?  I’ve definitely owned wedges that I just didn’t hit very far.  all other specs being equal. In fact I was having this conversation last weekend with a playing partner who was complaining of his wedges.  And he mentioned how he loved them greenside but hated the full swing action.  And I agreed that finding a wedge that you like for both isn’t easy.  Which is a large part of why I tend to play a set of wedges until they literally are gone. I’m a strong wedge player and confidence in them is a must.  You want to be so secure in a wedge set that when you make a bad swing , that you immediately know who to blame.  When it’s an either or mystery , you’re breeding bad juju.  

Edited July 29, 2023 by bladehunter

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, Dewdman42 said:

 

Thanks I am definitely going to have them measured to check that.  I think it's probably a decent idea to bump the PW to 47 and the GW to 50.   But first I want to make sure I'm not missing any technique in my short irons.  Also I want to get all my distances with a better launch monitor like trackman or GCQuad to be sure I'm looking at accurate numbers.

 

At the top of your set, you could then have the 6i adjusted to 29* and potentially eliminate the 5 iron.  Then you'd have the 6i carrying 175+ and the next club (4H) carrying 188.

 

With room for an extra club, you could potentially reconfigure the bottom of your set with ideal yardages

Edited July 29, 2023 by Cwebb

[Dewdman42]

I already spent more time with the 6i today and consistently carrying 177 today.  Don't need to bend it and don't want to.  I will update the first post...

 

my current 4h carries over 190 already.   I don't think I should eliminate the 5i.  I will be able to hit it better, I just barely got these clubs...I will be spending more time with it.  This topic is about the bottom end of the bag.

 

But that is definitely something to consider if I can not figure out better short iron swing technique and/or a few loft bends....and don't forget I can still use 3/4 swings to fill the gaps.....but otherwise then the next thing would be eliminate something at the top in order to add another wedge.  I carry both a 3h and a 4W.  I could potentially get rid of the 4W and just use the 3h when I need to tee off something 230ish.  I never use my 4W on the fairway anyway.  I only use it when there isn't quite room for my driver on the fairway but I still want to bomb some kind of wood down there.  I would miss it.  I'd rather just figure out my wedge swing and loft gapping.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Dewdman42

[Dewdman42]

12 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Huh.  Well. That covers that base.  Thanks for the info.  
 

Maybe it’s a bounce issue ?  I’ve definitely owned wedges that I just didn’t hit very far.  all other specs being equal. In fact I was having this conversation last weekend with a playing partner who was complaining of his wedges.  And he mentioned how he loved them greenside but hated the full swing action.  And I agreed that finding a wedge that you like for both isn’t easy.  Which is a large part of why I tend to play a set of wedges until they literally are gone. I’m a strong wedge player and confidence in them is a must.  You want to be so secure in a wedge set that when you make a bad swing , that you immediately know who to blame.  When it’s an either or mystery , you’re breeding bad juju.  

 

Yea I am pretty great with my vokeys around the green.  But full swing I do find it very easy with the shorter clubs to come up short in some way that has nothing to do with poor contact, but I think has more to do with how I am delofting the club or not......not sure right now.   

 

Today I did find that perhaps i was not being as attentive to my weight shift as I normally am with my mid irons.  This could be because of the fact I put the ball in the middle of my stance with wedges, but with my mid irons I have it a ball or two to the left, which induces me to weight shift to the left.  So today I put the ball, one ball to the left,  with my wedges, and I did gain 5-10 yards from my full swing!  Also with the GW.  So it might be as simple as this.

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

36 minutes ago, Dewdman42 said:

 

Yea I am pretty great with my vokeys around the green.  But full swing I do find it very easy with the shorter clubs to come up short in some way that has nothing to do with poor contact, but I think has more to do with how I am delofting the club or not......not sure right now.   

 

Today I did find that perhaps i was not being as attentive to my weight shift as I normally am with my mid irons.  This could be because of the fact I put the ball in the middle of my stance with wedges, but with my mid irons I have it a ball or two to the left, which induces me to weight shift to the left.  So today I put the ball, one ball to the left,  with my wedges, and I did gain 5-10 yards from my full swing!  Also with the GW.  So it might be as simple as this.

 

 

I find wedges, or at least vokeys to be a bit heavier swingweight than set wedges. Which to me tends to cause a bit of flipping. I feel like I have to hold off on the release more with wedges to keep from hitting sky balls with no distance. 

[GungHoGolf]

3 hours ago, Dewdman42 said:

Also I want to get all my distances with a better launch monitor like trackman or GCQuad to be sure I'm looking at accurate numbers.

This is super important. 

 

Also, you need to get your distances with your gamer ball - or at least a ball in the same category (premium urethane e.g.). I prefer gapping indoors (on a high quality mat which allows a -5 to -7° AoA without grabbing the club, bouncing, or pain) to eliminate wind as a variable. Range balls in general suck, and with wedges tend to launch higher and fly shorter.  

 

Finally, consider making all your wedges the same length and lie as your PW, if they’re not already. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by GungHoGolf

[RogerinNewZealand]

14 hours ago, Dewdman42 said:

I recently picked up new irons.  Mizuno 923 Tours.  Love them so far.  However I do have a pretty decent gap between PW and GW and not sure how I should deal with it..it could definitely be my swing.  Any tips welcome.

 

My current gappings are as follows, but I note I will be measuring it again after i get more rounds and accustomed to them and also indoor without wind:

 

Club	Loft	Carry	Total
3h		200	230
4h		188	203
5i	27	179	187
6i	30	177	186
7i	34	165	175
8i	38	154	162
9i	42	144	149
PW	46	134	137
GW	51	116	117
SW 54	54	100	101
			6
LW 58	58	85	86

 

There is 5 degree difference between PW and GW in the 923Tours which might explain part of it but I don't want to bend the GW up to 50 or anything because I also have a pretty big gap getting down to my 54 wedge, etc.  

 

From a technique perspective what I observe in myself is that I am pretty strong with my mid irons in terms of distance, but then when I get down to the GW and the shorter vokeys...my carry falls off a cliff.  My heights in all cases are pretty consistent around 28 yards.  I don't know if it's the shorter shafts that are causing this gap from PW down to all my wedges or if I am unable to get enough shaft lean with those shorter clubs or what.  so from a technique perspective, looking for any general advice without seeing video of mys wing, for how to get a little more distance out of the wedges in a reliable and consistent way.

 

Second to that would be general advice about dealing with this gapping in and around the wedges in general.  I can choke up and 3/4 swing my PW now to get my 125ish shots...ok...  though I'd would prefer to be able to have a good full swing 125 shot.  but maybe that is the answer?  Or should I start bending my clubs (after I get more rounds to make sure about the gaps).   Or should I change my vokeys....and/or consider a tweener wedge while giving up my 3W (not listed)?  

 

The gap between my 54 and GW is not too terrible, 15 yards...I would prefer 10-12.  But the gap between my PW and GW is very problematic and its a crucial distance.

 

any thoughts welcome thanks.

 

Its almost like you start with the 5 iron as the Baseline and Deloft 6 7 8 9 pw gw to suit real life gaps.

Real Custom Fit.

Worth doing.

[ChipNRun]

21 hours ago, Dewdman42 said:

I was able to add 5 yards to both GW and 54 by getting my hands lower and moving the ball one ball forward encourage a better weight shift.  That helps.  I still have a  pretty decent hole around 125 though.

 

Could you clarify the yardage hole you mention?

 

It appears the change in ball position for GW and SW has evened out the gaps, and GW 122 is pretty close to 125.

 

For the GW to LW, it appears you are throwing darts - minimal rollout. Don't lose that precision in endless tweaking.