1/2 to 3/4 Wedge shot

[Louis_Posture]

The common theme of this "1/2 to 3/4 wedge shot thread" seems to be 'practice makes perfect'.

Yet other threads go on for pages about finding clubs to lessen yardage gaps within the bag.

Why don't more players  like 64* wedges, a loft which essentially solves a 'gapping issue'?

 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

8 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

The common theme of this "1/2 to 3/4 wedge shot thread" seems to be 'practice makes perfect'.

Yet other threads go on for pages about finding clubs to lessen yardage gaps within the bag.

Why don't more players  like 64* wedges, a loft which essentially solves a 'gapping issue'?

 

 

Because it's a waste of a club.

[nitram]

On 8/4/2023 at 11:01 AM, sjn1 said:

You could try the Daniel Grieve approach (theres a thread on this ) , where  partial  wedge shots are played more like long pitch shots rather than as small 'full swing' shots 

Can you provide a link or name of the thread??

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

Because it's a waste of a club.

I understand some players like to say ''I can make a 58* or 60* do everything a 64* can do".

It's fine to say that but why do those same players lose sleep at night because they find the gap between their 210 yard club and 230 yard club is unbearable? I mean if a player believes he's got skill then why can't he take something off his 230 club or put some more mustard on his 210 yard club ? Why is a gap at the top  of the bag a focus of new club purchases but for 40-70 yard carry shots a 64* is considered redundant ?

[TLUBulldogGolf]

1 hour ago, Louis_Posture said:

I understand some players like to say ''I can make a 58* or 60* do everything a 64* can do".

It's fine to say that but why do those same players lose sleep at night because they find the gap between their 210 yard club and 230 yard club is unbearable? I mean if a player believes he's got skill then why can't he take something off his 230 club or put some more mustard on his 210 yard club ? Why is a gap at the top  of the bag a focus of new club purchases but for 40-70 yard carry shots a 64* is considered redundant ?

I don’t really disagree with this, it’s part of the reason I went to 4 wedges after playing 3 for forever and tweaked the top end to cover the gap. If you’ve got skill just learn a partial wedge, with the added benefit of the technique carrying over to your other wedges and giving you different shots with all of them. I don’t even think most players should be messing with a 60, much less a 64.

[SNIPERBBB]

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

I understand some players like to say ''I can make a 58* or 60* do everything a 64* can do".

It's fine to say that but why do those same players lose sleep at night because they find the gap between their 210 yard club and 230 yard club is unbearable? I mean if a player believes he's got skill then why can't he take something off his 230 club or put some more mustard on his 210 yard club ? Why is a gap at the top  of the bag a focus of new club purchases but for 40-70 yard carry shots a 64* is considered redundant ?

Who that is serious worries about a gap between, 210 and 230?

 

The 64 is a niche club to me. It's not something I would advocate as part of your normal bag. If you play short courses where you're in the range where a fuller swing is in the range of the 64 often then you could entertain the idea to drop a club off the top of the bag to make room.

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, SNIPERBBB said:

 

 

 

Who that is serious worries about a gap between, 210 and 230?

 

The 64 is a niche club to me. It's not something I would advocate as part of your normal bag. If you play short courses where you're in the range where a fuller swing is in the range of the 64 often then you could entertain the idea to drop a club off the top of the bag to make room.

How many threads does this forum have discussing which club "fills the gap "between 5-iron and 5-wood...........or 4-hybrid and 3-wood? ......I guess dozens of threads for this top of the bag gapping are here at this forum.

Regarding a 64* loft wedge, I don't believe "short courses" area factor. On most full length regulation courses players leaves themselves probably 

five 40-70 yard carry shots per round. That could be for the 3rd shot of a par 5, or a par 4 where a second shot from the trees left this same yardage for a 3rd shot approach to the green. 

My perspective is that the 64* wedge is commonly thought of as some sort of 'niche club" , in much the same way as  chipper club is perceived.

But I believe the reality is that most players are faced with a 50 yard pitch shot 3 to 5 times per round and a chip shot anywhere from 3 to 13 times per round. So I believe that a 64* L wedge or a 49* chipper club are not at all "niche", but could be one of the most played clubs within a bag.

I know a majority will say "my 60* is good enough, I don't need a 64*" or "I can chip with my 9-iron, I don't need a chipper club". but if that player is averaging more than a score of 72 I think he/she should be open to trying different clubs.

[ShortGolfer]

I carry a 52/10 gap wedge for bump and runs.  60 is as high as I'll go because I can soften the grip and make little 3 yard lob shots over the fringe onto the green.  

My bag has 5 wedges 48AW, 52 gap, 56SW, 58 low bounce lob, and 60/12 high bounce lob.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

5 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

How many threads does this forum have discussing which club "fills the gap "between 5-iron and 5-wood...........or 4-hybrid and 3-wood? ......I guess dozens of threads for this top of the bag gapping are here at this forum.

Regarding a 64* loft wedge, I don't believe "short courses" area factor. On most full length regulation courses players leaves themselves probably 

five 40-70 yard carry shots per round. That could be for the 3rd shot of a par 5, or a par 4 where a second shot from the trees left this same yardage for a 3rd shot approach to the green. 

My perspective is that the 64* wedge is commonly thought of as some sort of 'niche club" , in much the same way as  chipper club is perceived.

But I believe the reality is that most players are faced with a 50 yard pitch shot 3 to 5 times per round and a chip shot anywhere from 3 to 13 times per round. So I believe that a 64* L wedge or a 49* chipper club are not at all "niche", but could be one of the most played clubs within a bag.

I know a majority will say "my 60* is good enough, I don't need a 64*" or "I can chip with my 9-iron, I don't need a chipper club". but if that player is averaging more than a score of 72 I think he/she should be open to trying different clubs.

Those people aren't serious. They think they are but they're not

 

64 and chipper fall into filling a niche that didn't need to be filled. If you've got a chipper, you might as well get a set of super GI clubs. You're throwing a club away because you obviously don't practice at all to get the most out of your clubs. Same thing with the 64. Its also a limited club like the chipper.

[North Butte]

34 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Those people aren't serious. They think they are but they're not

 

64 and chipper fall into filling a niche that didn't need to be filled. If you've got a chipper, you might as well get a set of super GI clubs. You're throwing a club away because you obviously don't practice at all to get the most out of your clubs. Same thing with the 64. Its also a limited club like the chipper.

Us really short hitters do have a lot of options for filling out a 14-club set (including the option of playing with 11 or 12 clubs, of course).

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

36 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Us really short hitters do have a lot of options for filling out a 14-club set (including the option of playing with 11 or 12 clubs, of course).

 

 

Standard set, all wood set, all hybrid set?

[North Butte]

Just now, SNIPERBBB said:

Standard set, all wood set, all hybrid set?

No, I mean when the longest club I can hit from the fairway only goes 175-180 yards (and driver around 200) it doesn't take 14 clubs to fill the range from there down to 60 or 70 yards or whatever minimum full-swing yardage I'm looking for. 

 

Some people hit driver 280, hit 3-wood 250 and then wants to cover down to 75 yards with 15 yard max gaps. They are going to have trouble doing that with less than 14 clubs. 

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, SNIPERBBB said:

 

 

64 and chipper fall into filling a niche that didn't need to be filled. 

Maybe yes, maybe no.

I just believe that any player with a scoring average higher than 72 should at least consider trying a 64* wedge. It's a club designed for 35 to 70 yard carry shots, which is the topic of this thread.

The 'practice more' perspective is always good, but the reality is that bags on Tour are filled with jumbo mallet putter heads and over size long iron heads. 

[SNIPERBBB]

40 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

Maybe yes, maybe no.

I just believe that any player with a scoring average higher than 72 should at least consider trying a 64* wedge. It's a club designed for 35 to 70 yard carry shots, which is the topic of this thread.

The 'practice more' perspective is always good, but the reality is that bags on Tour are filled with jumbo mallet putter heads and over size long iron heads. 

They're giving themselves a bit of a cushion with such cubs.  A 64* has a lot less margin for error vs even a 60.  Very few pro's bag a 64.  Few of them are top tier golfers. 

[SNIPERBBB]

Further to this point...arccos data shows that the 64 has the worst GIR% compared to other wedge lofts.

[North Butte]

I've always played my best (wedge) golf with sets of Vokeys lofted 50/54/60 or sometimes 50/55/61, by weakening the SW and LW. But one set I played for a couple years went all the way up to 62, it was a 4-wedge set of 50/54/58/62 Vokeys. 

 

For me personally, that's about maxing out the benefit of high loft. I do like having 61 or 62 degrees rather than 60, those lofts seem to play exactly like a 60 but take another 5 yards or so off my stock swing distance (i.e. I would hit the 62-degree about 55-56 yards instead of just over 60 yards). And I did not find a Vokey 62.08M any harder to achieve consistency with than a 60.10D for instance.

 

A couple times I've had a 64-degree wedge in the bag and maybe it's because they were bigger wedges than the Vokeys but that seems to be a loft where it's hard to control distance. Such a wedge is great as a trouble club if you just want gouge the ball out of pine needles or gnarly rough and get it in the general vicinity of the green. But for my swing it is past of the limit of being "just like a 60 but goes 15 yards shorter". More of a specialty or gimmick club than just another wedge in the series.

 

I suppose there are some people for whom even a 60-degree is past the point of being usable like lower lofted wedges. And conversely, I have a friend who carries (or used to carry at least) a 64-degree that he can use exactly like his lower lofted wedges. I think part of that is he has a very smooth tempo and very little tendency to add loft at impact, unlike me on both counts!🥵

[nitram]

After Pelz published the "Short Game Bible" years ago, I tried a 64 for about a season. I even went so far as to try a 70* wedge. In both cases they were really handy, when they worked and really sucked when they didn't. Now at the time my wedges were 48, 53, and 58, and I was playing off +3 and I was looking for that little bit extra to get into +4 or better territory. By the end of the season and experiment, I'd changed my wedge setup to 50, 55, 50, and 64, straight out of Pelz' book. The gapping fit my game a little better but I found myself gravitating more towards the 60 vs 64 to handle the delicate situations the 64 was supposed to be utilized.

 

I can think of 3 distinct time times (over a year) that the 64 worked as I intended. And dozens more times it didn't. It was worthless out of a bunker and I had the most trouble controlling spin, usually not enough. There is a point of diminishing returns . . .  And please, don't say I didn't practice enough with it to give it a chance because I was spending 3-5 hours a day, 70% of it, practicing short game and putting. And the 64 got just as much time as the other 3 wedges, if not more.

 

I eventually traded it out for a 7WD and have been better for it ever since.

 

I'm glad it works for you but in my personal experience and almost every amateur I've observed in the last two decades struggle with it.

[MattC555]

1 hour ago, Louis_Posture said:

Maybe yes, maybe no.

I just believe that any player with a scoring average higher than 72 should at least consider trying a 64* wedge. It's a club designed for 35 to 70 yard carry shots, which is the topic of this thread.

The 'practice more' perspective is always good, but the reality is that bags on Tour are filled with jumbo mallet putter heads and over size long iron heads. 

 

In my experience lofts greater than 58° become more and more difficult to control strike location with.  Maybe pickers have better luck, but my full swing 60° shot often lands short due to the ball riding up the face.  I almost always prefer a half swing 50° over the full 60°, and I've never seriously considered a wedge greater than 60°.  Even my 60° has caution tape on it.  I only pull it on tight lie chips(due to the low bounce mine has, not the loft), firm bunkers(again bounce), extremely deep bunker, or the very rare flop recovery.  I use my 56° and 50° almost exclusively from 80 yards in.    

[FirstFlight]

Partial wedge shots are tough, but can become comfortable.

Learned recently from practicing with two Vietnam vets, both with different approaches. One carried 5 wedges including a 64', and wouldn't hesitate to default to the 64'. The other carried 3 wedges, with the highest being the 56', and would default to the 52' for anything but bunker play.

 

The marine would manipulate and work wonders with his default 52', even demonstrating flop shots with it! The sailor made the best use of all his wedge lofts, and could keep his technique and manipulation changes to a minimum. Both would pull off the same shots, just with differing styles...and be froggy about it with each other the entire time.

 

Me...I learned from both of them...that I should choose my weapons carefully, and to get totally creative and comfortable with each one. There's nothing better than walking up to just about any lie and pin placement, and knowing you have everything you need to attempt it.

 

My 51/55/60 wedges, all get to share the light regularly, with Kevin W. Crumb.

[DaveGoodrich]

I don't have a 64, but I do play a 60-04 that's bent to 62-06. It's really good at what it does, and I use it 3 or 4 times in a typical round.  But I never have to hit that 62 "full," or hit it out of anything deep/soft/soggy, etc., because I also carry a high bounce 58, which is super forgiving from those conditions. For me, it's worth carrying both to always have the perfect short game tool for the job.  

.   

[sjn1]

On 8/7/2023 at 11:15 PM, nitram said:

Can you provide a link or name of the thread??

https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1906780-dan-grieve-3-releases/#comment-24644190

 

[khalespace]

Right now within a 100 yards I am really good. I prefer the 3/4 swing over the full or 1/2 swing. I practice my wedge shots with a towel on the ground 5 inches in front of the balls to ensure I turn and make good contact.

I also periodically check my contact with impact tape, just to make sure I make contact at the center of the club face.

 

I think the key is to apply pressure during practice. For example, I have to get 2 of 3 shots within 7% of the targeted distance and the other shot has to be within 10% before I can move to the next level. If I miss, I have to go back from the beginning.

For example,

Level 1) 50 yards, 2 shots within 46 to 54 yards and the other shot has to be 45 to 55. If I hit exactly 50 yards, I move to the next level even with 1 shot and give myself 1 mulligan to be used for the next levels.

Level 2) 60 yards, 2 shots within 56 to 64 yards and the other shot has to be 54 to 66.If I hit exactly 60 yards, I move to the next level even with 1 shot and give myself 1 mulligan to be used for the next levels.

Repeat at 70, 80, 90 and 100. 

Any time I fail, I have to start again at 50. This puts a lot of pressure on me. Sometimes I need more than 40 minutes just to go through 6 levels.

 

I have Skytrak in my garage so it is quite easy to practice like this in a completely controlled environment.

Edited August 9, 2023 by khalespace

[LBB]

I used to be very dialed in with my wedges at various distances from 35-100 yards when I had the ability to practice them, off of grass, multiple times a week.  I used the clock system

 

Would literally take a bucket of 35 balls, pick a distance, and take all four wedges (48/52/56/60 at the time) and figure out a way to hit each club that distance.  Pick up the balls, go find another distance, and repeat.  Wasn't uncommon to hit about 200 of these wedges shots a night after work, 2-3x per week.

 

Really didn't have much to do with technique as it did simply practice and building confidence.  I think the reason so many of us, myself included today, struggle with these partial shots inside of 100 yards is that there is pressure to execute what should be a scoring opportunity, and combining the fact that we don't practice it nearly as much as we should.  It's already in our head that we're going to disappoint ourselves which rarely leads to a good shot.

 

 

 

[nitram]

14 hours ago, LBB said:

I used to be very dialed in with my wedges at various distances from 35-100 yards when I had the ability to practice them, off of grass, multiple times a week.  I used the clock system

 

Would literally take a bucket of 35 balls, pick a distance, and take all four wedges (48/52/56/60 at the time) and figure out a way to hit each club that distance.  Pick up the balls, go find another distance, and repeat.  Wasn't uncommon to hit about 200 of these wedges shots a night after work, 2-3x per week.

 

Really didn't have much to do with technique as it did simply practice and building confidence.  I think the reason so many of us, myself included today, struggle with these partial shots inside of 100 yards is that there is pressure to execute what should be a scoring opportunity, and combining the fact that we don't practice it nearly as much as we should.  It's already in our head that we're going to disappoint ourselves which rarely leads to a good shot.

 

 

 

Very well said. Folks who can't practice daily on these type of shots must have realistic expectations about proximity and what to accept as a good shot.

[LeoLeo99]

When I was young, I'd swing high lofted clubs very hard.  It was glorious when it worked but most of the time bad things happened.  Now that I'm older, I hit almost every shot under 100 yds with a 1/2 or 3/4 swing with very good results.  Swinging a 64° with a big swing to hit the ball 65 yds is recipe for disaster for most.  I'd much rather hit my 50° with a 1/2 or 3/4 swing to cover that distance, especially on tight lies.  With modern golf balls and typical greens, there is plenty enough spin to stop the ball.

Edited August 10, 2023 by LeoLeo99

[Golf_Goof]

53 minutes ago, nitram said:

Very well said. Folks who can't practice daily on these type of shots must have realistic expectations about proximity and what to accept as a good shot.

 

There was a video short I saw on here with Will Z saying that the average proximity for tour pros from 100 yds. was 16 feet. I found that hard to believe, but I'm mindful that we generally see the guys on TV that are playing at their best that week, and that their targets are tougher and greens firmer/faster.  

[me05501]

When trying to take something off any club there's a huge tendency to decel through impact. This is absolute death with a wedge shot. Your hands and body might decel but that heavy club head is going to keep moving, often getting ahead of the handle and revealing that leading edge to the golf ball. You skull the first one so you chunk the next one. The margin for error is nil. 

 

You have to make your adjustment in the length of backswing then accelerate through the ball. This ensures that your hands stay ahead of the clubface and you hit the ball with the face instead of some other part of the clubhead. 

 

 

 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

On 8/7/2023 at 10:38 PM, Louis_Posture said:

"I can chip with my 9-iron, I don't need a chipper club". but if that player is averaging more than a score of 72 I think he/she should be open to trying different clubs.

If you're a "Rule of 12" devotee, you're required to chip with a wide variety of clubs to make the concept work.  A dedicated chipper isn't useful.  IME, it's not a rock-solid rule, but I'll chip with anything between a 5-iron and a 56°, if the distances and green speeds require it.  It's basically a 'putt' with a lofted club.  To me, it's not that hard to do.

 

I see your point on the concern over top of the bag gapping, and the comparative lack of concern over precise distance control with fewer wedges vs more.  If you find better precision and greater save percentages carrying a 64 and/or a 60, knock yourself out. 

 

Pelz was a big proponent in his books of that.  I think he mentioned it, but a great reason for mid and high-handicappers vs pros to carry a gazillion wedges (and, from WITBs, most pros carry a 60), is that we don't have the time to devote to practicing a dozen different types of shots with a wedge. Instead, we could just pick up a high-lofted wedge and make one of the three wedge swings we do know how to do.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Jayjay_theweim_guy

[LBB]

2 hours ago, Golf_Goof said:

 

There was a video short I saw on here with Will Z saying that the average proximity for tour pros from 100 yds. was 16 feet. I found that hard to believe, but I'm mindful that we generally see the guys on TV that are playing at their best that week, and that their targets are tougher and greens firmer/faster.  

They aren’t always aiming at the hole, even at 100 yards.  Tough pin placements and certain slopes around the green often make the ideal target area 8-12 feet from the pin to give the “easiest” putt for birdie.  12 footer straight up the hill can be an easier putt than a 7 foot slider.

[North Butte]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

When trying to take something off any club there's a huge tendency to decel through impact. This is absolute death with a wedge shot. Your hands and body might decel but that heavy club head is going to keep moving, often getting ahead of the handle and revealing that leading edge to the golf ball. You skull the first one so you chunk the next one. The margin for error is nil. 

 

You have to make your adjustment in the length of backswing then accelerate through the ball. This ensures that your hands stay ahead of the clubface and you hit the ball with the face instead of some other part of the clubhead. 

I have the tendency you're talking about the decelerate on partial wedge shots. 

 

But if I shorten my backswing, my mental wiring seems to interpret that as "don't swing as hard" so I decelerate even more!

 

And if I tell myself to go ahead and accelerate hard through the ball, as often as not my wiring interprets "accelerate" as some sort of swiping motion with my hands that cuts across the ball.

 

My mental wiring is a joke, basically .

 

This may sound crazy but the only way I can distract myself from these conflicting thoughts is to just thinking about the number. I laser the distance and let's say it's 69 yards. I literally am thinking as I address the ball, "Just hit it 69, c'mon 69, let's go 69" and that helps me not think about length of backswing or tempo or anything else. It's just a 69, no big deal.