is blade shaming real ?

[BlkNGld]

Never have seen the eye rolls or other outward expressions of shaming.   

 

Now there have been times I've thought some people were poorly fit.   As an example we once played behind a group of ladies, and it was pretty clear that a couple of them with shiny new sets went into the store and asked for the same bag of nike stuff that Tiger plays - TW blades, etc. 

 

Lots of ways people enjoy the game and they don't have to match mine.

[phizzy30]

53 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

 

My observation is that OEM advertising, specifically categorizing equipment by player skill level-handicap index has led players to feel shamed.

Yes, it's a "mental thing" but one that is promoted by OEM's trying to sell equipment, fitters and retailers trying to sell their services etc...

And once a consumer has switched from blades to cavity backs he often becomes part of the juggernaut promoting new tech.

I find that a lot of fitters, especially the ones that are incompetent, are brain washed and trained to sell distance from the the driver all the way down to irons.  The good ones take everything into consideration and work with the customer to fit them into clubs that perform numbers wise and in the long run, help lower scores.  Distance is perfectly fine with driver, but the other clubs are about dispersion, spin and distance control.  Better players and those who've been playing for a long time know this.  However, the casual golfer either doesn't know this or does, but doesn't care and is obsessed with hitting their irons far.  It all comes down to ego in the end. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by phizzy30

[Potatohead]

4 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I’m not saying blades aren’t the best option for you to shoot your best scores, nor did I say you can’t shoot your best scores unless you play some sort of cb (I don’t believe that to be a blindly true philopshy).
 

I’m saying blades likely aren’t what the golfer in the example shared above by another member felt were his best option. 
 

There are always anecdotes to support a position.  Rickie Fowler was abysmal with his blades now has won again playing one of the larger, tech infused players cb.  We could do that all day.

 

I was under the impression Rickie switched heads because he switched balls. He may have even switched shafts too, I believe I remember hearing that. Even though he wasn't playing great it's not like a guy with his talent wasn't consistently hitting the centre of the clubface. That would also mean that after switching he still isn't, and the clubs are helping that much? I doubt it. I think a lot pf pros use the iron head that gives them the numbers they want. They are less concerned about forgiveness.

 

My experience on course is that most people don't care at all about what other equipment people are using. Someone could be a terrible driver but still drive a sports car, just like a ten cap can play blades. Who really cares? 

 

I just started up the game again after about a four or five year break due to some health stuff. I still game a MP59/69 combo set (I did reshaft them to lighter shafts) and I definitely do not hit the ball as well as I did five years ago. I will give myself until I feel my swing is back to a decent form and then go from there. I'm sure some of the newer slightly larger heads like T200/923 Forged etc would help a bit but I am not convinced it would be a huge difference. Maybe one shot per round?

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Potatohead

[Nard_S]

You know one time a guy I really respected said something and I was mess for 5 holes, then I kept pace with him and even rattled him. Taught me something. But do get a lot positives, I'm sure the disapproving look other way, but reality, I carry, I choose ball for short game and play blades and I don't care impact to index from all three. Don't care if dudeman next to me has Rory's shaft in his bling either, or if my drink at the turn costs me a bogie. Just don't.

[Louis_Posture]

17 minutes ago, Potatohead said:

 

I was under the impression Rickie switched heads because he switched balls.

 

I believe that on Tour peer pressure and some shaming is a real thing.

DL III played his best golf with a 1-iron in the bag but became the last man standing with one and I think caved to the pressure.

Tiger played his best golf with steel shafted woods but standing as the last man with steel caused too many questions so he switched to graphite and his swing tempo-rhythm suffered from it.

Plenty of guys on Tour play blades but with all the missed cuts my guess is that out of the corner of his eye Rickie saw some head scratching and eye-rolls so he took the path of least resistance and joined the cavity back club.

[infinii]

24 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

I believe that on Tour peer pressure and some shaming is a real thing.

DL III played his best golf with a 1-iron in the bag but became the last man standing with one and I think caved to the pressure.

Tiger played his best golf with steel shafted woods but standing as the last man with steel caused too many questions so he switched to graphite and his swing tempo-rhythm suffered from it.

Plenty of guys on Tour play blades but with all the missed cuts my guess is that out of the corner of his eye Rickie saw some head scratching and eye-rolls so he took the path of least resistance and joined the cavity back club.

 

Why would anyone on tour do that when they are competing with each other for glory and a pay cheque?

[NRJyzr]

27 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

DL III played his best golf with a 1-iron in the bag but became the last man standing with one and I think caved to the pressure.

 

IMHO it's more likely due to the fact that the 1 iron disappeared due to loft creep.  What *was* a 1 iron morphed into a 2 iron.  And is now, in some cases, a 4 iron.

 

[golfday]

I've never seen a blade user shamed, and hope to never see that. It would be rude and uncalled for to criticize someone's clubs. Everyone should pick and enjoy the clubs that work best for them. Going out of your way to take away from someone else's enjoyment isn't cool.

 

That said, I have many friends that are poor ball strikers and if any of them asked for my opinions on what clubs they should buy next I wouldn't list any blades; and if they specifically asked for my opinion about them buying blades I'd give an honest answer that I don't think it's the best choice for them. I don't consider that shaming though, if someone asks for my opinion and wants to have a discussion then I'm going to be honest with them. If they showed up the next week with blades anyways, I'd leave it be and make a positive and truthful statement like "those are some nice looking clubs!" - because blades always are nice looking.

 

Personally, I don't use blades but I do use a 7 wood. I've gotten one or two ribs about it from friends, but that was all in good fun - not shaming.

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

47 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

I find that a lot of fitters, especially the ones that are incompetent, are brain washed and trained to sell distance from the the driver all the way down to irons.  The good ones take everything into consideration and work with the customer to fit them into clubs that perform numbers wise and in the long run, help lower scores.  Distance is perfectly fine with driver, but the other clubs are about dispersion, spin and distance control.  Better players and those who've been playing for a long time know this.  However, the casual golfer either doesn't know this or does, but doesn't care and is obsessed with hitting their irons far.  It all comes down to ego in the end. 

 

+1 to that. Funny thing is, those three things - dispersion, spin and distance control - will make distance come a lot easier. When said player is thinking only of distance, things are always out of sync. Ball striking, above all else, is the most important aspect of golf. After that, the clubs do the talking.

The thing is, fitters and manufacturers are aware of the casual golfer's perception of distance, and so they just play along trying to make the customer happy. When they come across golfers that say they want to up their game and dive into aspects of golf like spin and flight control, they just assume said golfer is looking for bragging rights by hitting blades and will ultimately end up unhappy. Many times, that is going to be true.

To each their own, though.

Like someone said to me, "If you want to struggle all day, I'm not gonna stop you."

LOL. The idea is NOT to struggle, though. 😄

[nsxguy]

32 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

I believe that on Tour peer pressure and some shaming is a real thing.

DL III played his best golf with a 1-iron in the bag but became the last man standing with one and I think caved to the pressure.

Tiger played his best golf with steel shafted woods but standing as the last man with steel caused too many questions so he switched to graphite and his swing tempo-rhythm suffered from it.

Plenty of guys on Tour play blades but with all the missed cuts my guess is that out of the corner of his eye Rickie saw some head scratching and eye-rolls so he took the path of least resistance and joined the cavity back club.

 

So your stance is one that guys who changed to some sort of more forgiving club was based on being "shamed" rather than them getting input from other players and testing out the performance of said clubs,,,,,,,,,, and deciding to change ?

 

Now THAT is just good comedy

[Louis_Posture]

6 minutes ago, infinii said:

 

Why would anyone on tour do that when they are competing with each other for glory and a pay cheque?

Consider that week after week players and caddies are at the Tour stop driving range, including Monday's and Tuesdays where equipment vans and company representatives are hanging around. There is lots of talking and questions about equipment. It's human nature to withstand peer pressure for only so long, eventually nearly every player succumbs to it and tries whatever is the flavor of the month.

[Dan Drake]

Yes.  I'm ashamed that I'm not a good enough ball-striker to play blades.  

 

I'll also be ashamed when I put the new '23/'24 Apex MB's in the bag and mishit them often enough that I contemplate just going back to my Eye 2's and being done with golf iron hoe-dom forever.  

 

There is no blade-shaming quite like the self-loathing that we endure from our own selves.  

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Dan Drake

[Potatohead]

9 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

Consider that week after week players and caddies are at the Tour stop driving range, including Monday's and Tuesdays where equipment vans and company representatives are hanging around. There is lots of talking and questions about equipment. It's human nature to withstand peer pressure for only so long, eventually nearly every player succumbs to it and tries whatever is the flavor of the month.

 

You didn't answer his question. He basically asked why player A would ever want player B to play better. 

 

OEMs want players in the latest equipment because they are being paid to represent the company and to sell product. A guy like Morikawa still using a SIM is not a good look. 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Potatohead

[Louis_Posture]

4 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

So your stance is one that guys who changed to some sort of more forgiving club was based on being "shamed" rather than them getting input from other players and testing out the performance of said clubs,,,,,,,,,, and deciding to change ?

 

 

 

Historically Tour players make equipment changes for reasons such as seeking increased distance, higher trajectory, more dollars from a new sponsor , fitter told him numbers are better with new tech, and sometimes just because he is the last man standing with a particular shaft or club head and is tired of answering questions about it.

Except for the sponsorship dollars factor, Tour players make equipment changes for some of the same reasons that amateurs do.

[Kmagnuss]

1 hour ago, Kai Slater said:

It would be interesting to do an experiment where I go out to a random spots on the course to hit iron approaches into the greens.  On one shot, I play my Callaway RazrX game improvers and on another shot from the same spots, hit with a blade and see what the difference really is in accuracy.

 

 

I do this on the range from time to time... not surprisingly I am more accurate, on average, with  a CB over a blade.  But not by much... I doubt there would be as much as a stroke difference between them.  Not enough to make me change. 

 

We did this in a bay with my fitter also.  He was trying to talk me into a more forgiving iron but after having me hit MP20 MB's back to back with a few different JPX models and some HMB's we stuck with the MP20's.

[Louis_Posture]

1 minute ago, Potatohead said:

 

You didn't answer his question. He basically asked why player A would ever want player B to play better. 

 

 

Helping others to play better is part of the game, and always has been, especially among Tour players.

[BombinJim]

I’ve gotten crap from my friends after hitting bad shots with my blades, but it’s been in jest and not meant to shame. I do the same to them when they hit a bad shot, too. It’s all in good fun. Play whatever you want to play as long as you have fun and keep pace.

[acemandrake]

No shaming, just curiosity.  Especially if I see blade mid & long irons.

 

 

[Orchardist]

Oh No....seeing blade style iron heads in someone else's golf bag is ruining my day.   Get real.  I have a fiver that says if some dbagger is commenting negatively on your club preferences you are not commenting on theirs. 

[Pepperturbo]

To @Louis_Posture

Blade shaming, though it's not common place, is real.  We've seen it on here and by those personnel you list.  I understand why fitters and various sales personnel do it.  They want to sell equipment with the highest margins.  But there's NO excuse for the weak weasel types.

 

On social media, I call them weak weasels that, for the most part, can't play the game very well and want others to follow them.  Reminds me of the slowest ship in the convoy, wanting to lead the convoy...WRONG.

 

I've only seen it a few times at the course when two guys made comments to me, after seeing my blades and play.  They see someone card a good score, and think, he could have carded a better score using clubs that they use.   All they care about is the scorecard.  I care about ball striking, which done right, takes care of itself.

 

We're not all the same.  One of the core reasons I took up golf was I can tackle golf my way, and still enjoy the company of people that are not as good or demanding at the game as I am. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[nsxguy]

6 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

 

Historically Tour players make equipment changes for reasons such as seeking increased distance, higher trajectory, more dollars from a new sponsor , fitter told him numbers are better with new tech, and sometimes just because he is the last man standing with a particular shaft or club head and is tired of answering questions about it.

Except for the sponsorship dollars factor, Tour players make equipment changes for some of the same reasons that amateurs do.

 

So then you're NOT saying Tour players are being shamed into changing ?

 

Please make up my mind.

 

TIA

[Pepperturbo]

6 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

 

Historically Tour players make equipment changes for reasons such as seeking increased distance, higher trajectory, more dollars from a new sponsor , fitter told him numbers are better with new tech, and sometimes just because he is the last man standing with a particular shaft or club head and is tired of answering questions about it.

Except for the sponsorship dollars factor, Tour players make equipment changes for some of the same reasons that amateurs do.

There's some truth to what you said, but don't get carried away thinking it's one-sided or motives are the same as amateurs; they are quite different.  Pros don't make iron changes, like amateurs.   By and large, pros hate changing irons.  If they aren't making cuts, they are working on their problem, which for most of them is NOT irons, but mental, and or Driver or wood shafts and a lousy putting.  Pros don't set around and criticize other pros either, for equipment choices, like many do on this DB. 

 

As for sponsorship contracts, they come with dates of enforcement, stipulated performance paragraphs and incentives.  When someone leaves a notable OEM, it could be the player hasn't lived up to contract stipulations over an extended period, or play levels, so the OEM quietly cuts him loose when his contract expires. 

 

[bevans0222]

I've never seen any blade shaming at my club. 

 

There are some people who actually hit blades better than CB/GI clubs.  I was fit into blades a few years ago.  In my case I'm such a low spin player, that the blades really helped me get my launch/spin numbers into a good window.   A friend of mine, who is about a 10 index, also got fit into blades.  I asked him about it, and he said that his launch numbers were just better with the blades.  I'd guess he is also low spin.  Modern CB/PD/GI clubs don't actually fit everyone.

 

All that said, I'm back to playing my older CB's(Z785's).  I know that my launch #'s aren't ideal with them, but I just like them.

 

[Louis_Posture]

4 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

So then you're NOT saying Tour players are being shamed into changing ?

 

Please make up my mind.

 

TIA

 

Here is a copy and paste of my earlier comments, including three specific examples of how shaming may have  prompted 3 Tour players to change equipment:

 

I believe that on Tour peer pressure and some shaming is a real thing.

DL III played his best golf with a 1-iron in the bag but became the last man standing with one and I think caved to the pressure.

Tiger played his best golf with steel shafted woods but standing as the last man with steel caused too many questions so he switched to graphite and his swing tempo-rhythm suffered from it.

Plenty of guys on Tour play blades but with all the missed cuts my guess is that out of the corner of his eye Rickie saw some head scratching and eye-rolls so he took the path of least resistance and joined the cavity back club.

[nsxguy]

10 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

So your stance is one that guys who changed to some sort of more forgiving club was based on being "shamed" rather than them getting input from other players and testing out the performance of said clubs,,,,,,,,,, and deciding to change ?

 

4 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

So then you're NOT saying Tour players are being shamed into changing ?

 

Please make up my mind.

 

TIA

 

13 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

 

Here is a copy and paste of my earlier comments, including three specific examples of how shaming may have  prompted 3 Tour players to change equipment:

 

I believe that on Tour peer pressure and some shaming is a real thing.

 

DL III played his best golf with a 1-iron in the bag but became the last man standing with one and I think caved to the pressure.

 

Tiger played his best golf with steel shafted woods but standing as the last man with steel caused too many questions so he switched to graphite and his swing tempo-rhythm suffered from it.

 

Plenty of guys on Tour play blades but with all the missed cuts my guess is that out of the corner of his eye Rickie saw some head scratching and eye-rolls so he took the path of least resistance and joined the cavity back club.

 

Ahhhhhh,,,,,,,, I see now.

 

Instead of actually answering you just re-state your same guesses about shaming.

 

So actually, you really have no idea as your answer is a definite "maybe".

 

Got it. My bad. Thanks. 👍

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by nsxguy

[bazinky]

Almost no cares about other peoples clubs.Play whatever makes you happy, just don't give a dissertation on why you need it.

 

That said, I will have to give you the eye-roll if you keep talking about playing blades so you can "work" the ball while putting up a radio station on the scorecard.

 

 

[London424]

19 hours ago, Kmagnuss said:

I do this on the range from time to time... not surprisingly I am more accurate, on average, with  a CB over a blade.  But not by much... I doubt there would be as much as a stroke difference between them.  Not enough to make me change. 

 

We did this in a bay with my fitter also.  He was trying to talk me into a more forgiving iron but after having me hit MP20 MB's back to back with a few different JPX models and some HMB's we stuck with the MP20's.

And when you think about it it shouldn’t be that surprising. 
 

Assuming you’re say a 10 hc, once you take out the 40 shots <80 yards. 
The 18 odd drivers/fairways/hybrids

Then the P/9/8 that are pretty much the same to hit no matter the model

 

how many shots a round are we even talking about?

[Nard_S]

6 minutes ago, bazinky said:

That said, I will have to give you the eye-roll if you keep talking about playing blades so you can "work" the ball while putting up a radio station on the scorecard.

Unless asked, never talk gear. I even cover them up in a big fat beach towel. Does wonders for bag chatter but I'm also not advertising.

[MtlJeff]

22 minutes ago, London424 said:

And when you think about it it shouldn’t be that surprising. 
 

Assuming you’re say a 10 hc, once you take out the 40 shots <80 yards. 
The 18 odd drivers/fairways/hybrids

Then the P/9/8 that are pretty much the same to hit no matter the model

 

how many shots a round are we even talking about?

 

I've posted this many times in these threads. Scoring shouldn't change that much, if you are playing the proper tees you're talking about maybe 2-4 shots a round on most courses, that you will hit with a 4-6 iron

 

7-PW probably won't make much difference what clubs you use. 

 

Now, depending on your level and what you are tryin to achieve (playing for fun, or winning a club championship)--those 2-4 shots may or may not be very significant. 

 

Like, if you have a 205yd par 3 over water and you're a 3-index. Do you want to hit that with a blade or a CB/GI club. 

 

That's up to the golfer, but over a year, it's not gonna change your index that much

[LeoLeo99]

Well....I might be guilty of blade shaming.  

 

Got paired up with a random guy a couple years ago.  Large younger man with a lot of chs.  His drives were 300yds but every iron he hit clanked and came up short.   He had some sweet blades in the bag that he rarely made solid contact with.  I asked how he liked the blades passively implying they weren't the right clubs for him.  He said he's part of some internet group that plays blades because the ball goes shorter on wayward strikes and therefore prevents the ball from going OB or into strange places like it would if the ball went the full distance on off-center strikes like with GI shovel irons.  I play shovels.  I simply replied something like, you do you.  It doesn't matter to me what people play, just think he could play much better golf with a more forgiving iron.  Some folks like golf at maximum difficulty level.  

 

I  played blades in the late 70s/early 80s.  I think it would be negligent for a fitter to put a 15 handi in a blade today when there are better choices available.