Looking for a Non fade Bias driver

[KnoxvilleReb]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:20 PM, Phabs said:

Yep.  I quickly learned that the low spin distance thing isn’t for me.  Chasing launch monitor numbers doesn’t get you anywhere but in trouble.  Just my opinion
 

My numbers with my current Aerojet are far less than what the internet guru’s would say is ideal yet I hit more bombs in three months than I did in the three years prior chasing ideal numbers 

Why do you think that is? I'm working on driver accuracy this winter and really only have the ability to hit indoors with a launch monitor. I know this is a popular sentiment on the forum, so not coming at you directly or anything. Just curious as to why / what exactly people think causes a difference between indoor vs golf course performance. 

[Phabs]

1 hour ago, KnoxvilleReb said:

Why do you think that is? I'm working on driver accuracy this winter and really only have the ability to hit indoors with a launch monitor. I know this is a popular sentiment on the forum, so not coming at you directly or anything. Just curious as to why / what exactly people think causes a difference between indoor vs golf course performance. 

Because spin is control.   I also take launch monitor results with a grain of salt... rather hit everything outside with decent golf balls 

Edited January 17 by Phabs

[radiman]

6 minutes ago, KnoxvilleReb said:

Why do you think that is? I'm working on driver accuracy this winter and really only have the ability to hit indoors with a launch monitor. I know this is a popular sentiment on the forum, so not coming at you directly or anything. Just curious as to why / what exactly people think causes a difference between indoor vs golf course performance. 

I don't think he means the act of hitting on a LM. It's the chase for maximum distance on a LM.  Going as low spinning as you can to eek out every possible yard.  The trade off is that the low spin will mean your ball will not hold its line as well.  You'll get more movement and live on the edge of a terrible shot and a bomb.  Get the spin to a place where it's not detrimentally high but not too low either will give you a more controllable ball flight that is more repeatable.  

Kind of like when TM promoted the 17/1700 campaign once they realized the SLDR was too low spin for people.  Only way to make it playable for most was to launch it super high.  On great shots it was a bomb. On not so great, well, it wasn't lol.  My miss with that club was a very hard low spin hook.  

[KnoxvilleReb]

1 minute ago, radiman said:

I don't think he means the act of hitting on a LM. It's the chase for maximum distance on a LM.  Going as low spinning as you can to eek out every possible yard.  The trade off is that the low spin will mean your ball will not hold its line as well.  You'll get more movement and live on the edge of a terrible shot and a bomb.  Get the spin to a place where it's not detrimentally high but not too low either will give you a more controllable ball flight that is more repeatable.  

Kind of like when TM promoted the 17/1700 campaign once they realized the SLDR was too low spin for people.  Only way to make it playable for most was to launch it super high.  On great shots it was a bomb. On not so great, well, it wasn't lol.  My miss with that club was a very hard low spin hook.  

Makes sense. Is there a rough rule-of-thumb type of spin number that starts to be in that sweet spot of leaving ~5 yards or whatever the number is on the table for a more controlled flight? For example, using the PING driver optimization chart, would that be like ~300 more rpm's of spin than suggested for the ball speed/AoA? 

 

I'm having this problem currently where I'm hitting good drives on my launch monitor, but worried the spin is a touch too low. Living in the ~2000-2200 zone right now with a ~14 launch. Has me considering a head with more spin since i'm already lofted up.

[radiman]

18 minutes ago, KnoxvilleReb said:

Makes sense. Is there a rough rule-of-thumb type of spin number that starts to be in that sweet spot of leaving ~5 yards or whatever the number is on the table for a more controlled flight? For example, using the PING driver optimization chart, would that be like ~300 more rpm's of spin than suggested for the ball speed/AoA? 

 

I'm having this problem currently where I'm hitting good drives on my launch monitor, but worried the spin is a touch too low. Living in the ~2000-2200 zone right now with a ~14 launch. Has me considering a head with more spin since i'm already lofted up.

I don't know if there's an accurate chart since a lot of it depends on speed and launch.  But, you could plug your numbers into the Flightscope optimizer and play with spin numbers to see what kind of effect it would have on distance. 

 

https://trajectory.flightscope.com/

 

If you're hitting it well and straight, then you can live there.  If you're finding that you're a little bit all over the place, then consider some extra spin.  Few hundred RPM. Could be increased loft, a different head, maybe even a different shaft.  If results are good on the LM, then I say wait until you get outdoors to see if that spin is truly an issue or not. 

Also, that's assuming you're using a legit LM that is giving you really accurate data.  

[Phabs]

1 hour ago, radiman said:

You'll get more movement and live on the edge of a terrible shot and a bomb.

This exactly 

[ShowMe]

TSR2 is definitely draw-biased for me.  So was the TSi2.

[Phabs]

1 hour ago, radiman said:

I don't think he means the act of hitting on a LM. It's the chase for maximum distance on a LM.  Going as low spinning as you can to eek out every possible yard.  The trade off is that the low spin will mean your ball will not hold its line as well.  You'll get more movement and live on the edge of a terrible shot and a bomb.  Get the spin to a place where it's not detrimentally high but not too low either will give you a more controllable ball flight that is more repeatable.  

Kind of like when TM promoted the 17/1700 campaign once they realized the SLDR was too low spin for people.  Only way to make it playable for most was to launch it super high.  On great shots it was a bomb. On not so great, well, it wasn't lol.  My miss with that club was a very hard low spin hook.  

Yep this to a T... great response and explanation.   I chased "optimal" numbers on launch monitors for the better part of two years with LTDX LS , LTDX and Aerojet LS and drove the ball like a trashcan the whole time even though the launch monitor was saying I had absolutely superior conditions.    My current Aerojet head is 700+ rpm more than any of those 3 heads and my driver has come back to earth. 

Edited January 17 by Phabs

[drza3]

7 minutes ago, Phabs said:

Yep this to a T... great response and explanation.   I chased "optimal" numbers on launch monitors for the better part of two years with LTDX LS , LTDX and Aerojet LS and drove the ball like a trashcan the whole time even though the launch monitor was saying I had absolutely superior conditions.    My current Aerojet head is 700+ rpm more than any of those 3 heads and my driver has come back to earth. 

 

 

Wow Aerojet is that much higher spin than LTDx for you?  I'm in LTDx now and fight low spin.  I'm going to try the 2024 releases in search of more spin and was thinking of starting with Darkspeed X.

[Phabs]

24 minutes ago, drza3 said:

 

 

Wow Aerojet is that much higher spin than LTDx for you?  I'm in LTDx now and fight low spin.  I'm going to try the 2024 releases in search of more spin and was thinking of starting with Darkspeed X.

I went through 3 standard aerojet heads to find the one that I liked.  It was a disaster.... 

 

My current head set at standard on the sleeve is right around 2600-2800 typically.   The control I chased prior is back and my stock 10 yard draw ball has returned for the first time in two years. 

 

I was down in the low 2000's with LTDX LS / Aerojet LS and around 2500 in LTDX but I fought fade bias in that head even with more manageable spin numbers.   

 

If I we're you i'd give the standard aerojet head a spin. 

Edited January 17 by Phabs

[2Down]

your not drawing the stealth but want to.  so you are probably aiming right side but not turning it over, right. 

 

fastest way to get that draw back is to aim at the middle, your sure to draw it into the trees on the left then.  

[KnoxvilleReb]

Apologies for taking this topic off track, but as far as OP's question, i've seen reviews that say the new G430 10K Max wants to turn over. It seems a bit of a mix bag based on delivery of what type of spin it will produce for you, but Cameron Champ is using one so it does seem to be able to hold spin for some high swing speed players. 

 

I also play the standard Aerojet and have had no problem turning it over. As @Phabs mentioned he plays a 10 yard stock draw with it but had to go through a couple of heads. I will say I loft up in mine, as I like the slightly closed face (opposite of most on here) to help with the block right. In reality, I hardly ever hit the duck hook left on course, but i'm so scared of doing so my main miss is not committing to turning the face over and leaving it open for the right block. Closing the face helps a little with that I find.

 

Given your high SS, I imagine spin is a problem in a lot of heads. If you want something more draw-biased, Cool Clubs Robot Testing showed Aerojet Max has very low spin loft for a Max head. I assume Darkspeed will be the same. Not sure exactly how much draw bias is in it though as i've never tested one out.

[dmecca2]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'm a very budget friendly golfer, and buying new clubs without pro shop credit is out of the picture for me. I was looking into the Mizuno STX and then Grayson Murray won with it, so I figured that was a sign to give it a shot. I found a head for $145 so once I get that and a shaft fitted with the correct adapter, I'll give it a go and report back.

[Pepperturbo]

On 1/13/2024 at 2:45 PM, dmecca2 said:

I’ve been a drawer of the ball my entire life and I currently have a stealth 2 and struggle to draw it. From what I’ve heard, read, and experienced, the stealth 2 seems to be naturally fade bias. Are there any drivers out there that are easier to draw, or more neutral balanced? And I’m not talking about the anti-slice drivers. My current swing speed hovers around 115. 

Can't you adjust the sleeve?   I am amazed at all the people I know that never adjusted or even experimented with sleeve adjustment.

 

When I play a course that starts with a number of left dog legs, I change the sleeve to A3 or D3 and take it down the right side.  Playing Nicklaus courses, on the other hand, which have dog legs tending right, B4 or C4.  Course you can't do that during a USGA tournament, but any other time it's okay.

Edited January 18 by Pepperturbo

[dmecca2]

14 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Can't you adjust the sleeve?   I am amazed at all the people I know that never adjusted or even experimented with sleeve adjustment.

 

When I play a course that starts with a number of left dog legs, I change the sleeve to A3 or D3 and take it down the right side.  Playing Nicklaus courses, on the other hand, which have dog legs tending right, B4 or C4.  Course you can't do that during a USGA tournament, but any other time it's okay.

I have the stealth 2 in the upright setting with the weight in all the way to draw. It's the most "draw" I can get out of it, and it's still challenging to turn over. The club just wants to fade. Of course I can up the loft and that will close the face, but it produces a terribly shut face at address and doesn't change the fact that it's still fade bias.

I can work with it and I've certainly had a successful summer with the driver, but it's not ideal and a part of my game I want to improve this winter.

[dmeeksDC]

1 hour ago, dmecca2 said:

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'm a very budget friendly golfer, and buying new clubs without pro shop credit is out of the picture for me. I was looking into the Mizuno STX and then Grayson Murray won with it, so I figured that was a sign to give it a shot. I found a head for $145 so once I get that and a shaft fitted with the correct adapter, I'll give it a go and report back.

I enjoy looking for high quality gear that gets a little overlooked and is a great deal now. About two months ago at season’s end I also grabbed a mint Mizuno 230 ST-X head (9.5) for a low price. Took my time looking for a quality shaft for a budget price. Just finished building it last week with my usual category of shaft — mid-launch, mid-spin — this one with a UST Mamiya LIN-Q Purple shaft, also got strong reviews and is way, way cheaper than when it was released. I had hit the 220 STZ (gamed it for a few rounds) and the STX and @wam78is on the money. I found the ST-X head easy to draw or fade. Very good on misses, feels smooth. These drivers are consistency machines, very underrated. 
 

It should be a good one for you. 
 

[2Down]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

Can't you adjust the sleeve?   I am amazed at all the people I know that never adjusted or even experimented with sleeve adjustment.

 

When I play a course that starts with a number of left dog legs, I change the sleeve to A3 or D3 and take it down the right side.  Playing Nicklaus courses, on the other hand, which have dog legs tending right, B4 or C4.  Course you can't do that during a USGA tournament, but any other time it's okay.

I don’t think it’s legal to change adjustments during a round. Practice round or something I guess you could but when playing a game I don’t.  

[EddieEdwards]

Cleveland classic xl lofted up.  

[dmecca2]

Was able to get to a trackman simulator with the mizuno stx (9°) and it performed well. I have it fit up with a ventus blue 7x cb and my numbers seem pretty ideal. Swinging at about 115 with a heavier shaft produced ball speeds around 173 with 2200ish rpm's and a mid launch angle. I had my stealth 2 (8°) with a denali blue 6tx and even though I swung this lighter club around 117, my ball speed numbers were exactly the same, spin was similar, launch was lower, but dispersion was definitely more right. I'll definitely wait to get outside and test some more, but the mizuno seems to be better for me.

[JoeFrigo]

check out the new PXG Black Ops drivers. Get the extra weight kit and really dial in. When I had a Tensei Pro Orange in a PXG driver I put in a 20g weight in the heel and it was money

[nsxguy]

On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 PM, Pepperturbo said:

Can't you adjust the sleeve?   I am amazed at all the people I know that never adjusted or even experimented with sleeve adjustment.

 

When I play a course that starts with a number of left dog legs, I change the sleeve to A3 or D3 and take it down the right side.  Playing Nicklaus courses, on the other hand, which have dog legs tending right, B4 or C4.  Course you can't do that during a USGA tournament, but any other time it's okay.

 

I suspect you know this but those rounds are not post-able,,,,,,,, at least not without penalty strokes applied, yes ?