Players walking ahead to look at the hole

[gvogel]

Watching Scottie Schefler and one other walking way ahead of their balls in the fairway to look at the exact hole location.  I cry bogus.  A player has an allotted amount of time to play his shot - that should not include walking up to the green and back.  Stroke penalty in my book.

 

If you want to know the exact pin location on a green, go out before your round and look at it then.

[Hawkeye77]

Go to the fridge and get some juice with the extra time, lol.  It affects nothing

[Nickb333]

🤷‍♂️Walk around all you like. Unless of course your one in a thousand shot is hanging over the lip. Then… OmG, start the 10 second clock! We can’t have any dilly dally! 

[iBanesto]

But Harrington was painfully slow. On a couple of his holes on Sunday, he would walk all the way to the green from more than 100 yards out to check out the putting surface, and his slow play was wearing on Mark O’Meara, his opponent.

 

Said NBC’s Dick Enberg, who was on the call with Johnny Miller, “Harrington’s pre-shot routine gives new meaning to the Boston Marathon.” 

 

[Ant-Man]

9 minutes ago, iBanesto said:

But Harrington was painfully slow. On a couple of his holes on Sunday, he would walk all the way to the green from more than 100 yards out to check out the putting surface, and his slow play was wearing on Mark O’Meara, his opponent.

 

Said NBC’s Dick Enberg, who was on the call with Johnny Miller, “Harrington’s pre-shot routine gives new meaning to the Boston Marathon.” 

 

 

To be completely fair, that would absolutely annoy me too. 

[WorkItBothWays]

4 hours ago, Ant-Man said:

 

To be completely fair, that would absolutely annoy me too. 

That was likely the intention given it was head to head matchplay.

[Duct Tape]

13 hours ago, gvogel said:

Watching Scottie Schefler and one other walking way ahead of their balls in the fairway to look at the exact hole location.  I cry bogus.  A player has an allotted amount of time to play his shot - that should not include walking up to the green and back.  Stroke penalty in my book.

 

If you want to know the exact pin location on a green, go out before your round and look at it then.

I’m with you 100% GV.   The shot clock starts when the other guy hits, or when you first arrive at your ball. Plan your club selection and target as you walk up.  Slow play is the bane of amateur golf too. But we’re not playing for millions and 90% of us can’t even hit the correct half of the green even if we video each green from three angles.
 

Nowadays my 7 iron range is 150-170…….

 

Caddie to DT - “It’s 158, pin back left, wind helping from right.  That’s your 7…… or 8….. or a flushed 9, but forget that….or a 6….. or your usual miss hit 6-hybrid”

 

 

Edited April 1 by Duct Tape

[FriedEgg]

13 hours ago, gvogel said:

Watching Scottie Schefler and one other walking way ahead of their balls in the fairway to look at the exact hole location.  I cry bogus.  A player has an allotted amount of time to play his shot - that should not include walking up to the green and back.  Stroke penalty in my book.

 

If you want to know the exact pin location on a green, go out before your round and look at it then.

 

They have pin sheets every single day with exact locations and in depth yardage books for every hole on the course.  They've played the course the previous days of the tournament and in practice rounds earlier in the week, not to mention likely had played it in prior years.   A range finder can also help negate that walking up to the green nonsense too.   Give me a reasonable shot clock in golf, especially from the tee box, fairway and putting.  

[Creedo77]

1 hour ago, FriedEgg said:

 

They have pin sheets every single day with exact locations and in depth yardage books for every hole on the course.  They've played the course the previous days of the tournament and in practice rounds earlier in the week, not to mention likely had played it in prior years.   A range finder can also help negate that walking up to the green nonsense too.   Give me a reasonable shot clock in golf, especially from the tee box, fairway and putting.  

You can see the surface of a green with a rangefinder?

[North Butte]

What? You mean the guys playing golf on TV golf are painfully slow and boring?

 

Why I never...

[tatertot]

38 minutes ago, North Butte said:

What? You mean the guys playing golf on TV golf are painfully slow and boring?

 

Why I never...

Unfortunately it bleeds into our rounds, because alot of "golfers" only exposure is what they see in TV. I see a lot of people waiting for greens to clear from 300 yards, only to pure their shot 220.

[North Butte]

8 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Unfortunately it bleeds into our rounds, because alot of "golfers" only exposure is what they see in TV. I see a lot of people waiting for greens to clear from 300 yards, only to pure their shot 220.

I mostly see guys taking 3-4 practice swings and posing to hold their finish on each one. Then they do all the back offs and waggles and tugging at shirt sleeves, just like they see on TV. Then they hit it 220 into the woods (from the way-back tees). 

 

The other thing they copy from TV is you can watch a foursome on the tee and nobody will move a muscle or even think about pulling a club out of the bag until the previous guy has done his whole "routine" and hit. Then the second guy goes through his own monkey-see, monkey-do Tour Sauce wannabe "routine" and so forth.

Edited April 1 by North Butte

[tatertot]

2 minutes ago, North Butte said:

I mostly see guys taking 3-4 practice swings and posing to hold their finish on each one. Then they do all the back offs and waggles and tugging at shirt sleeves, just like they see on TV. Then they hit it 220 into the woods (from the way-back tees). 

 

The other thing they copy from TV is you can watch a foursome and nobody will move a muscle or even think about pulling a club out of the bag until the previous guy has done his whole "routine" and hit. Then the second guy goes through his own monkey-see, monkey-do Tour Sauce wannabe "routine" and so forth.

The list goes on and on ... The mark and remark for the 2 foot putt for triple ... Looking for their ball 100 yards beyond it's true resting place ... The 360° walk around for every putt ... The hardest thing to watch is when they duff the shot 5 yards, drop another ball, and do it all over again.

[gvogel]

2 hours ago, FriedEgg said:

 

They have pin sheets every single day with exact locations and in depth yardage books for every hole on the course.  They've played the course the previous days of the tournament and in practice rounds earlier in the week, not to mention likely had played it in prior years.   A range finder can also help negate that walking up to the green nonsense too.   Give me a reasonable shot clock in golf, especially from the tee box, fairway and putting.  

That is what I was going to say.  Pin sheet, previous experience from practice round and previous day's play.  Go out and take a look before you tee off if it is that important.

[Mrgreen36]

You guys sound like a ton of fun.  

[North Butte]

17 minutes ago, gvogel said:

That is what I was going to say.  Pin sheet, previous experience from practice round and previous day's play.  Go out and take a look before you tee off if it is that important.

Maybe they could do their practice swings, stop drills, waggles, back-offs, fidgets, towel wiping and visualizations before they tee off too!

 

They do all that crap on every hole, every swing, every day. By comparison, walking up to look at the green once or twice in a round is nothing, time-wise. 

[Gregakin]

It is what it is, but more times than not; the shot is so-so and could have done just as good w/ out the 'walk up'. 

[GoGoErky]

12 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Go to the fridge and get some juice with the extra time, lol.  It affects nothing

Agree also nothing in the rules that I can see that they can’t do that. It’s been happening for years from all different players.

 

TV coverage is still going to end at whatever time was alloted. 

[st1800e]

All those holes-in-one on tour….or hole-outs from the fairway….did they walk up to the hole first? 
 

Will tour players stop walking up to the hole on occasion because of this discussion topic?  

[Hawkeye77]

Give 'em drones!

 

I remember watching Seve and Ollie in a Ryder Cup match - Ollie had wedge from quite a ways back in the fairway - he needed to hole it - spent a bit of time walking up, surveying everything involved - I'm probably making silly comments - and . . . he comes within a whisker of holing it.  Pretty cool.

[subrew]

 

 

Until the PGAT actually follows the pace-of-play rules, nothing will ever be done.  The rules already clearly outline that the first player to reach their ball gets 50 seconds, subsequent players get 40 seconds.  That time includes marking off distances, selecting clubs, practice swings etc., and would include exactly what the OP mentions.  If the players wants to slow stroll up the green and take a peak, fine, but they should be on the clock.  But the Tour never actually enforces these times.

 

Instead they often publish/give players a target time for each hole.  So 14 minutes to complete a Par 3, 16m for a Par 4, 18m for a Par 5.  However they spend their time is up to them.  Some players are very fast and spend 10-15 seconds over the ball.  That can give them extra time for other stuff.  Others like Cantlay will walk up to their ball, and stand next to it for 2-3 minutes while they walk off distance, discuss club choices etc.  So when the camera is focused on him, it looks like he is clearly violating the pace of play rules, but if he finishes the entire hole in the allotted time, he's good.   He just looks incredibly slow every time the camera is on him. 

 

DJ is notorious for being slow on the greens, he and his brother walk around the hole in all directions and will take 2-3 minutes for long putts.  But he takes about 8 seconds to hit tee and approach shots, so he makes up for it.

 

I saw just a couple days ago that the TGL league will be implementing a 40 second shot clock, with loss of stroke if a player exceeds that.

 

I think it would be great if a single PGAT event, perhaps with a "fast paced sponsor" full-on met the 50s/40s rule.  Make it very clear they are trying something out, we're following pace of play.  There will be a time keep with each group.  You're given X warnings before penalty points are assessed.  Give players a few 3-minute "timeouts" when they are standing over incredibly tricky shots.  But let's see what a broadcast looks like when pace of play rules are actually upheld.

Edited April 1 by subrew

[st1800e]

3 minutes ago, subrew said:

Until the PGAT actually follows the pace-of-play rules, nothing will ever be done.  The rules already clearly outline that the first player to reach their ball gets 50 seconds, subsequent players get 40 seconds.

I believe the group needs to be “out of position” and warned before the timing procedure is enacted.  And once that’s all done they need to give a stroke penalty, not a $$ fine.  

[Hawkeye77]

9 minutes ago, subrew said:

 

 

Until the PGAT actually follows the pace-of-play rules, nothing will ever be done.  The rules already clearly outline that the first player to reach their ball gets 50 seconds, subsequent players get 40 seconds.  That time includes marking off distances, selecting clubs, practice swings etc., and would include exactly what the OP mentions.  If the players wants to slow stroll up the green and take a peak, fine, but they should be on the clock.  But the Tour never actually enforces these times.

 

Instead they often publish/give players a target time for each hole.  So 14 minutes to complete a Par 3, 16m for a Par 4, 18m for a Par 5.  However they spend their time is up to them.  Some players are very fast and spend 10-15 seconds over the ball.  That can give them extra time for other stuff.  Others like Cantlay will walk up to their ball, and stand next to it for 2-3 minutes while they walk off distance, discuss club choices etc.  So when the camera is focused on him, it looks like he is clearly violating the pace of play rules, but if he finishes the entire hole in the allotted time, he's good.   He just looks incredibly slow every time the camera is on him. 

 

DJ is notorious for being slow on the greens, he and his brother walk around the hole in all directions and will take 2-3 minutes for long putts.  But he takes about 8 seconds to hit tee and approach shots, so he makes up for it.

 

I saw just a couple days ago that the TGL league will be implementing a 40 second shot clock, with loss of stroke if a player exceeds that.

 

I think it would be great if a single PGAT event, perhaps with a "fast paced sponsor" full-on met the 50s/40s rule.  Make it very clear they are trying something out, we're following pace of play.  There will be a time keep with each group.  You're given X warnings before penalty points are assessed.  Give players a few 3-minute "timeouts" when they are standing over incredibly tricky shots.  But let's see what a broadcast looks like when pace of play rules are actually upheld.

 

It doesn't affect the broadcasts - they can and do cut away to other action unless they find something "interesting" like over analyzing a ruling or something like that.  Golf gets done when it gets done and usually on time - pace of play is a nothing when you are watching TV.  

[st1800e]

12 minutes ago, subrew said:

I think it would be great if a single PGAT event, perhaps with a "fast paced sponsor" full-on met the 50s/40s rule. 

Euro tour did that, not sure what became of it or commentary on how it went.  
https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/tour/tour/european-tour-shot-clock-slow-play/

[gvogel]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

It doesn't affect the broadcasts - they can and do cut away to other action unless they find something "interesting" like over analyzing a ruling or something like that.  Golf gets done when it gets done and usually on time - pace of play is a nothing when you are watching TV.  

It was towards the end of the round yesterday, and Jaeger was waiting on the tee for 12 - 13 minutes while the group ahead did the march to the green.  Talking about icing your opponent.

[North Butte]

22 minutes ago, subrew said:

 

 

Until the PGAT actually follows the pace-of-play rules, nothing will ever be done.  The rules already clearly outline that the first player to reach their ball gets 50 seconds, subsequent players get 40 seconds. 

To my knowledge, the Rules of Golf do not specify any such thing. 

 

They added a pseudo-Rule saying players "SHOULD" take 40 seconds, blah, blah, blah and the Committee "SHOULD" decide on a way to enforce it. 

 

The word "should" in Rules of Golf is meaningless jawboning. Like with the handicap system, USGA likes to pretend that frequent mentions of the Committee amounts to anything other than posturing. 

 

New Rule 5.6

Edited April 1 by North Butte

[MountainKing]

If you're playing for millions of dollars it's fine, especially in a tight match coming down the stretch.  If you're playing for $10 on a Saturday, absolutely not.  As mentioned a few posts up, the only real issue is that every week I see guys who shoot 90 or higher doing the same stuff tour guys are doing with their pre shot routine.   Those 5 practice swings where you tried to get the club into the slot only to be followed up by a topped shot is awesome to watch all day long

[miami1023]

I get it if there's a group putting on the green and you have the time to walk up but it's pretty ridiculous when they start doing it on every approach. 

[Hawkeye77]

13 minutes ago, gvogel said:

It was towards the end of the round yesterday, and Jaeger was waiting on the tee for 12 - 13 minutes while the group ahead did the march to the green.  Talking about icing your opponent.

He won!

[gvogel]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

He won!

Point missed.