Is the "other site" done for good? (Merged)

[Socrates' 2 iron]

[quote name='MBA-J' post='2044282' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:41 PM']Socrates' 2 Iron, why did you bump this old thread? Nobody had posted in this thread for 7 minutes before you posted.

Please do not bump old threads, as it confuses the membership.[/quote]

Look man... don't question my bumps okay? So far as bumps go mine are, [i]tour[/i].

Got it?

[Scotty_D]

[quote name='rebels68' post='2044220' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:15 PM'][quote name='Socrates' 2 iron' post='2044155' date='Nov 3 2009, 08:46 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2044097' date='Nov 3 2009, 08:25 PM']Isn't EDOE the guy that had the spider cracks in the hosels of his $3000. set of Callys???

If he's the one, that guy gets the set and sees these spider marks on the necks then immediately goes
on the open forums of BSG and starts a thread bitching and moaning (with photos), saying all these bad
things about Todd, which starts this avalanche of posts bashing BSG & Todd. He goes nuts long before he
ever took the time to contact anyone at BSG that could have dealt with the problem. Talk about premature
ejaculation!! (Parody?? ) I can understand the trauma he must have experienced when he opened that
box, but, he sure went off the boil without giving anyone at BSG a chance to resolve the problem. This is a
bit off topic, but, I just remember this pretty well because I was online when he started that thread. Crazy![/quote]

If my memory serves me correctly, and it usually does, this guy sent private messages to members of BSG staff with regards this issue. Then after [b]not[/b] having received any response, let alone a satisfactory one, he made a post on the open forums.
[/quote]

Well, in this instance, your memory failed you. I was online when the guy first posted that thread. It was over
the weekend, late in the evening. He was so angry and going nuts about this issue, that people were trying to
calm him down and asked him if he had talked with anyone at BSG. He said he had sent a PM a couple of hours
before posting, but, being over the weekend, I don't think any of the BSG staff was online to see his PM. It was
a long drawn out scene & the guy was being incredibly unreasonable. I ended up talking with Derek that Monday
& he said that they told him they would do whatever he wanted. The issue was resolved to the customers benefit.

I'm not trying to take sides here at all, I just remember talking with this guy (in a post) and he was nuts. The
marks on the hosel were very small and barely visible and since they were cast clubs and he had them bent
to stronger lofts and flatter lies, the spider like fine lines most likely were caused by the loft/lie adjustments.
He sure was pissed that's for sure.

[quote name='PixlPutterman ' post='2044154' date='Nov 3 2009, 08:45 PM']I understand that you have had great dealings with todd, and wish you a "screwwed free" future, but should that day come when you get hosed, let me know and ill PM you the link to this thread and say told you so.[/quote]

Please....please stop saying that I have had great dealings with Todd or that I am a great supporter of his.
I have had very little interaction with Todd. I will never be screwed by Todd, there is no chance of that ever
happening. Thanks guys, I'll appreciate your understanding.
[/quote]


Rebels I can remember this like it was yesterday, trust me and my memory I have several members on here that know me in person and can vouch for the accuracies of it. The title of the thread was are my 2 dot broken with pictures of the spidering and dings. EDOE went on to ask the forum opinions and mentioned that he had PM'd Todd, Derek and Marcus several times with no response. He then went on to PM several MODs thinking they were employees of BSG. After almost a full day with no response, not even a MOD response staying that they were not employees and someone from BSG would get back to them. Later that night Todd and company come online after a round of golf and dinner to discuss what happened. EDOE swears off the site and then his integrity is questioned and is flamed for feeding the trolls. Fast forward GD sponsor Frank Viola gets EDOE some sweet looking AR1's from Scratch with an antique finish and no spidering. Frank also had 282 heads for sale for a third of the price of BSG and EDOE came here to sell the heads on behalf of Frank. One of Frank's few mistakes.

[PixlPutterman]

and lime green.....or would those be called mumps?

[petter7]

[quote name='TheVelvetCat' post='2044233' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:20 PM'][quote name='Socrates' 2 iron' post='2044155' date='Nov 3 2009, 07:46 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2044097' date='Nov 3 2009, 08:25 PM']Isn't EDOE the guy that had the spider cracks in the hosels of his $3000. set of Callys???

If he's the one, that guy gets the set and sees these spider marks on the necks then immediately goes
on the open forums of BSG and starts a thread bitching and moaning (with photos), saying all these bad
things about Todd, which starts this avalanche of posts bashing BSG & Todd. He goes nuts long before he
ever took the time to contact anyone at BSG that could have dealt with the problem. Talk about premature
ejaculation!! (Parody?? ) I can understand the trauma he must have experienced when he opened that
box, but, he sure went off the boil without giving anyone at BSG a chance to resolve the problem. This is a
bit off topic, but, I just remember this pretty well because I was online when he started that thread. Crazy![/quote]

If my memory serves me correctly, and it usually does, this guy sent private messages to members of BSG staff with regards this issue. Then after [b]not[/b] having received any response, let alone a satisfactory one, he made a post on the open forums.
[/quote]

I believe you are correct. If my memory serves me correctly, the buyer in question initially raved about how beautiful they were out of the box upon receiving them. Unfortunately, upon showing them to the pro at his home course - an individual with a trained eye for equipment - the spidered hosels were discovered along with a couple of other little dings in the head from the bending machine vice. Being a forged head, the Callaway X-Tours are notorious for this susceptibility - but a highly skilled clubworker can take steps to prevent it, nonetheless.

I, for one, don't blame the poor guy for "premature ejaculation" after plunking down a few grand on a set of irons, thinking he had the perfect set, and then having his golf pro point out the flaws in his goods. How embarassing.

And I don't recall any initial "bitching or moaning." I remember a tentative first post asking, "Does this look right to you?" along with the pictures of a couple of irons. The guy seemed like he was in a panic after the money he had spent. Putting myself in his shoes, I probably would have responded the same.

To his credit, Derek later apologized on the open forum in the thread regarding the irons, admitting a mistake in shipping out the irons in that condition. He mentioned poor lighting conditions in his work area for not noticing the very small cracks.

EDOE happened to be visiting Vegas, so Derek and Hoss met him in the lobby of his hotel, refunded the second half of his money and took the irons back. (First half refunded via PayPal)

There are later discrepancies regarding the cause of the spidered hosels. Todd hinted that EDOE wanted the irons bent upright a large amount - something like 4 degrees or higher. He made these hints long after EDOE had sworn off the forum and had left for good. Once alerted to the allegations, I seem to recall EDOE posting on golfdiscussions that he never asked for such a large increment - something much lower like a degree or two. Two sides to that story, I guess.

Perhaps we would be able to read the thread on BSG - but, it was quickly buried in the forum through new posts by BSG staff in other threads until the topic was pushed to the second page of the subforum - and then it disappeared altogether. Perhaps the subject and similar threads detailing the entire experience can be found here or on golfdiscussions.

One thing I don't remember - were the irons in question two dot or three dot heads?
[/quote]

You're right on a number of accounts here.

There was the pro noticing the marks, the guy was so angry and desperate that Derek and Marcus did meet
with him in his hotel lobby to deal with the issue and Derek did apologize afterwards in the open forums for
letting those irons leave the shop in that condition and they were bent upright, not flat. But, there's no doubt
EDOE posted in the forums before talking with anyone at BSG. It was over the weekend and there was no way
anyone at BSG could have read the PM's and responded. From what I was told, there were very strong & angry
words exchanged at that meeting in the hotel lobby. The guy was irate. In this case, BSG took care of this guy the
best way they could have. This particular incident cannot be used as an example of poor treatment of a customer.
Yes, the marks on the clubs can be considered shoddy work, but, I don't think there are many clubmakers that don't
make a mistake once in awhile. The work DTown did on some of my stuff was first rate.

[goinglow72]

[quote name='elrey23' post='2043920' date='Nov 3 2009, 06:58 PM'][quote name='parbeater' post='2043860' date='Nov 3 2009, 05:25 PM'][quote name='mozart' post='2043752' date='Nov 3 2009, 05:34 PM']Any chance we could keep on topic?A lot of people probably would like to know the reasons for their having alienated so many.

Not everyone wants to wade through the really world class one liners.[/quote]

From what I have gathered by reading through all of this as someone who is pretty much neutral on this whole topic, there is basically nothing but a bunch of unsubstantiated comments which is why you keep reading a bunch of one liners.

No one has proof of anything. It all comes down to the fact that many guys on here seem to have clashed with Todd and some of the other BSG crew's personalities over various things. That I can maybe see since not everyone is going to like one another in any aspect of life much less over a golf forum. However, the deceptive business practices and such seem to be totally unfounded without a shred of solid evidence.

Some of you guys obviously harbor some deep issues which you are free to do, but I think that it's all pretty childish and just petty. I'm more interested in the factual stuff like someone getting ripped off or not receiving what they paid for. Things like that are what's important here. That doesn't really seem to happen as many are saying or at least no one is willing to or can prove it.

There are some things that I did not like about the website during the time that I was a member, but I can say that about any site or business establishment most likely. One thing to keep in mind is that there may be 100 ticked off members here who dislike BSG, but there were thousands of members logging on daily that apparently liked it. So, you are pretty well in the minority whether your issues are legit or not. I suppose that all of those guys had just yet to see the light like a few of you have. Basically, a bunch of you just take this whole thing WAY too seriously in my opinion.

The best part is how some of you say that you won't be going back or have deleted them from your favorites now. It took a server crash for that to happen rather than choosing not to visit the site because of the many alleged issues from the past????? That makes no sense. This whole thread has turned into a bunch gossip and is as much of a soap opera as anything that ever went down at BSG.
[/quote]

Todd? Is that you?
[/quote]


Probably so....but he needs to change his screen name to "can'tbeatpar"

[asitlies]

Nice to see some of the old "insider" crowd here - feel free to give me a shout. Wonder where Seasuks is - loved his "cart path grind" - used it when his LW misbehaved - dragged it behind the cart for a while.

Made some good friends over there - guys I've met, played with & remained friendly with. Do miss Adammull; good to see stage here - top notch guy, imo. Good to see floggy & some others. Love to see Kevcarter here. Can't remember Dave's moniker - always had the launch info ready to go. TPC7 - ready for your half of the home and home

Been lurking at BSG for the last few years - when everyone got banned until 2038, I was put on probation - every post looked at by a mod prior to publication. Just became too much of a pain to be able to contribute.

Enjoy WRX.

PS - Just an aside, not an attack: rebels68 - if you have 12,000+ posts on a golf website - you may have a problem.

[dmboak]

Methinks Todd Allen has moved on to the souped up car market and doesn't have any time to dedicate to his golf business. How many names does this guy have???

[petter7]

[quote name='asitlies' post='2044329' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:05 PM']PS - Just an aside, not an attack: rebels68 - if you have 12,000+ posts on a golf website - you may have a problem.[/quote]

Thank's for the headsup.

No offense to you in any way, but, since you have no clue how or why I had 12K posts
I'll just take your remark as just another misguided, knee-jerk comment. Cya.

I guess Gxgolfer must have the same problem, eh??

[TheVelvetCat]

[quote name='rebels68' post='2044323' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:01 PM']You're right on a number of accounts here.[/quote]

You're right, I am. Thank you.

[Body_Visions]

Man I am glad I got a candy apply shaft instead of a green shaft.

I do think this is and was the best site by far, but are there any other sites you guys still go to?


















Now, please check the BST and feel free to bid on my one-off Ozik.

[petter7]

[quote name='TheVelvetCat' post='2044389' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:39 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2044323' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:01 PM']You're right on a number of accounts here.[/quote]

You're right, I am. Thank you.
[/quote]

You're welcome.

[Socrates' 2 iron]

[quote name='rebels68' post='2044323' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:01 PM']There was the pro noticing the marks, the guy was so angry and desperate that Derek and Marcus did meet
with him in his hotel lobby to deal with the issue and Derek did apologize afterwards in the open forums for
letting those irons leave the shop in that condition and they were bent upright, not flat. But, there's no doubt
EDOE posted in the forums before talking with anyone at BSG. It was over the weekend and there was no way
anyone at BSG could have read the PM's and responded. From what I was told, there were very strong & angry
words exchanged at that meeting in the hotel lobby. The guy was irate. In this case, BSG took care of this guy the
best way they could have. This particular incident cannot be used as an example of poor treatment of a customer.
Yes, the marks on the clubs can be considered shoddy work, but, I don't think there are many clubmakers that don't
make a mistake once in awhile. The work DTown did on some of my stuff was first rate.[/quote]

Look, might well this guy have pulled the trigger on his post in the open forums prematurely, and if so that's his folly, but seriously the whole thing was a joke. I don't care what anyone says, the BSG moderators and Administrators were/are online a LOT - weekends, holidays, all hours of the night - there was always someone online. So here's this guy he's just paid $3000.00 for a set of irons, possibly more, from a business which bills itself as first-rate, top-notch, high-end, where supposedly no order is too tall, no task too great, where customer satisfaction is not only important but valued, and he's stuck with a mangled set of irons and no one to tell him everything is going to be okay. And moreover, when he finally goes to the public forum to make his claim, he gets harassed by a litany of BSG apologists. Ridiculous.

I'm glad he cussed DT and Hoss up and down.

[kgk]

[quote name='TheVelvetCat' post='2044389' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:39 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2044323' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:01 PM']You're right on a number of accounts here.[/quote]

You're right, I am. Thank you.
[/quote]

[attachment=489827:10101880...40115135.jpg]

[elrey23]

BSG still has a bunch of crap for sale on fleabay. I always found it funny that it was the same things over and over; 07 Burner heads, left-handed Y cutter wedges, Cleveland Hi-Bore heads and a crapload of Adams fairway woods and hybrids. Must have bought a bulk load of all that crap and still can't unload it.

[bonasa]

BSG still down.

[kgk]

[quote name='bonasa' post='2044461' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:15 PM']BSG still down.[/quote]

Update: still down.

[NYKnuckleballer]

One thing I don't remember - were the irons in question two dot or three dot heads?

 

I'm gonna venture a guess of 2 dot.

 

[asitlies]

[quote name='rebels68' post='2044393' date='Nov 3 2009, 11:41 PM'][quote name='TheVelvetCat' post='2044389' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:39 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2044323' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:01 PM']You're right on a number of accounts here.[/quote]

You're right, I am. Thank you.
[/quote]

You're welcome.
[/quote]


I'm hoping the 12,000+ posts were more insightful than this.

You need to work on your sense of humor.

[Socrates' 2 iron]

 

Ah yes... the tour-issue Callaway X-Tour 8-cracks, great irons.

[TheVelvetCat]

[quote name='NYKnuckleballer' post='2044497' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:33 PM'][quote name='TheVelvetCat' post='2044233' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:20 PM']One thing I don't remember - were the irons in question two dot or three dot heads?[/quote]

I'm gonna venture a guess of 2 dot.


[/quote]

Aaaaaah, thank you so much. Yeah, one minute to Wapner. Duhn-duhn-duhn-duhn-dah-dah.

[markheardjr]

Does anyone remember those god awful circle T's Todd got hold of? They were so beat up and completely destroyed. Unbelievable, I have never seen tour clubs mis-treated that bad. Aftermarket finishes, drilled port holes, bad paintfill...

[PixlPutterman]

Are you sure he didnt do that himself.

Its a BSG Finish Called the Vintage Tour Finish

[ROBOPTI]

One thing I don't remember - were the irons in question two dot or three dot heads?

 

I'm gonna venture a guess of 2 dot.

 

 

 

Aaaaaah, thank you so much. Yeah, one minute to Wapner. Duhn-duhn-duhn-duhn-dah-dah.

 

I am a fan of ..... TheVelvetCat

 

[Hungsolo]

Lol, reading the "Users reading this topic" down there is like another site circa 2005 or 6.

[elrey23]

[quote name='asitlies' post='2044507' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:40 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2044393' date='Nov 3 2009, 11:41 PM'][quote name='TheVelvetCat' post='2044389' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:39 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2044323' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:01 PM']You're right on a number of accounts here.[/quote]

You're right, I am. Thank you.
[/quote]

You're welcome.
[/quote]


I'm hoping the 12,000+ posts were more insightful than this.

You need to work on your sense of humor.
[/quote]

[petter7]

[quote name='asitlies' post='2044507' date='Nov 3 2009, 11:40 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2044393' date='Nov 3 2009, 11:41 PM'][quote name='TheVelvetCat' post='2044389' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:39 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2044323' date='Nov 3 2009, 09:01 PM']You're right on a number of accounts here.[/quote]

You're right, I am. Thank you.
[/quote]

You're welcome.
[/quote]


I'm hoping the 12,000+ posts were more insightful than this.

You need to work on your sense of humor.
[/quote]

PM sent.

[skitoolong]

This may be more sinister than it appears at first blush.

Perhaps a covert action by the intrepid leaders of this site succeeded in taking down the "mighty" BSG thereby forcing the loyal readership to WRX.











Or not.

[stage1350]

Thanks, David for posting the photos. Good to see you again!

 

How bad does your lighting have to be to NOT see that?

 

I've bent more than a few clubs in my day. That's a piss poor job when you spider the chrome like that. The Callaways are supposed to be Endo forged. I've bent some Endo forgings and have NEVER had an issue like that, even going 3° upright.

 

Two possibilities:

 

Either these are refinished heads and they used a really horrible plater with too much nickel in the plate OR

Short knuckle bending bar. <-----

[parbeater]

[quote name='Scotty_D' post='2043903' date='Nov 3 2009, 06:51 PM']Google bigstealer golf, there is evidence there, they say a picture is worth 1000 words. Also PM CaddyJoe on golfdiscussions.com for pictures of his wedge. If BSG was still up PM the guys who were part of the club testing program and ask if they got what they were promised. They were promised tour issue Solus wedges, half never got them, those that did were retail ones reshafted with hackjobs. There were several posts in frustration about that program that were deleted and guys were banned and topics removed, I was able to read 2 before big brother deleted them. I believe one of the guys has archived his PM's, emails and his original post before it was deleted (I cant remember the screen name). EDOE also posted pictures, he was then ridiculed and called crazy, he got his money back and they said that was great customer service, but it does hide the facts that the spidering and dings were overkill and it was a hack job. PM the guys from the original Big Dog Shootout as how many heads went down the fairway, ask them why there was pop up tape and how a +3 can sky a driver. Also ask the people who sent stuff in for the Big Dog and never received their stuff back. People helped Todd get his hands of stuff he couldnt get and he thanks them by keeping it for himself. Send an email to the company that they supposedly borrowed the Iron Byron from for the Shaft Shootout, it was never rented by them. Also if the site was up check the dates of the Shaft Shootout and the weather in Vegas at the time, the numbers were doctored to represent the stock BSG had. They had way too many x con 5's so it was a "surprising beast"

The evidence is there, its just been deleted and hidden in server outages and other circumstances. I am sure flogpro could attest to this but I wouldn't ask him too, in my dealings with him he's a great guy and he will tell you if he wishes. The few that have been able to make a copy of their posts or hit print screen they would have more cold hard evidence unfortunately BSG has been able to hide and remove much of this evidence.

Also I will admit Z-Golger and I were given a warning for something we were talking about in Private Messages, their definition of Private is for Todd to read. If BSG was still running I could show you the evidence unfortunately in this outage if it ever comes back all my inbox will have been lost.

You say you are neutral, I too was once in your shoes, but do some research and ask around. Ask OEMs what they really think of Todd. They been referred to as prostitutes as they can be bought to hype whatever and lemmings listen. No offence to ROBO but ask him what happened with the LV4. He started a craze, Cobra thanks him and BSG condemned him because its not tour and its not what they offer. TM lets them be because they can influence a lot of people and they can help create an internet craze, publicity is publicity[/quote]

The BigStealerGolf site is priceless. I mean, that says it all doesn't it? Come on dude. You seriously think that Todd is selling fake LCG heads all of this time and Callaway has never done anything about it? They must have a relationship of some sort with Callaway in order to have the X Tour irons that they sold Edoe or were those fake too? If they do have a relationship with Callaway, wouldn't they know if BSG was faking LCG heads? You think that a respectable OEM wouldn't do something about that? Anyone who takes what is on the Bigstealergolf website seriously is the biggest clown around.

I can't see how supposedly skying a driver or using pop up tape proves anything about ones business practices. Neither does a head flying off during the shootout. That wasn't a customers club from I can understand. So it's pretty irrelevant. I don't really care if Todd or any of the guys on BSG choose to lie about their handicaps either. I would like to hear or see solid proof that people are truly getting scammed and ripped off.

Now, the whole Edoe deal I do remember quite well. What a debacle that was to read. I'll say that I would not have been happy about receiving clubs like that either, but from what I recall Derek owned up to the mistake and they offered to take them back right away did they not? Or they at least offered to take care of it as soon as they were back online which was only several hours after the guy went nuts posting about it. The dude flipped out without even giving Todd, Derek, or Marcus a chance to respond. I realize that delivering a set of irons like that was a mistake on their part, but every company screws up at some point. The fact that they owned up to it, refunded the money, and took them back says nothing negative about their business to me. What else can you do?

[quote name='elrey23' post='2043920' date='Nov 3 2009, 06:58 PM'][quote name='parbeater' post='2043860' date='Nov 3 2009, 05:25 PM'][quote name='mozart' post='2043752' date='Nov 3 2009, 05:34 PM']Any chance we could keep on topic?A lot of people probably would like to know the reasons for their having alienated so many.

Not everyone wants to wade through the really world class one liners.[/quote]

From what I have gathered by reading through all of this as someone who is pretty much neutral on this whole topic, there is basically nothing but a bunch of unsubstantiated comments which is why you keep reading a bunch of one liners.

No one has proof of anything. It all comes down to the fact that many guys on here seem to have clashed with Todd and some of the other BSG crew's personalities over various things. That I can maybe see since not everyone is going to like one another in any aspect of life much less over a golf forum. However, the deceptive business practices and such seem to be totally unfounded without a shred of solid evidence.

Some of you guys obviously harbor some deep issues which you are free to do, but I think that it's all pretty childish and just petty. I'm more interested in the factual stuff like someone getting ripped off or not receiving what they paid for. Things like that are what's important here. That doesn't really seem to happen as many are saying or at least no one is willing to or can prove it.

There are some things that I did not like about the website during the time that I was a member, but I can say that about any site or business establishment most likely. One thing to keep in mind is that there may be 100 ticked off members here who dislike BSG, but there were thousands of members logging on daily that apparently liked it. So, you are pretty well in the minority whether your issues are legit or not. I suppose that all of those guys had just yet to see the light like a few of you have. Basically, a bunch of you just take this whole thing WAY too seriously in my opinion.

The best part is how some of you say that you won't be going back or have deleted them from your favorites now. It took a server crash for that to happen rather than choosing not to visit the site because of the many alleged issues from the past????? That makes no sense. This whole thread has turned into a bunch gossip and is as much of a soap opera as anything that ever went down at BSG.
[/quote]

Todd? Is that you?
[/quote]

No, just someone who is playing devil's advocate. I'm sure that you guys think that I am trying to defend BSG, but I can't help myself from using a little bit of common sense and looking past the BS that many are slinging around. I do want to give them the benefit of the doubt based on my dealings with them personally, but on the other hand I can see and do agree with SOME of the things guys are saying. However, a lot of the issues which I see and agree with are pretty minor compared the more serious allegations that have no proof behind them. That is all that I am interested in when it comes to making up my mind on which side I fall. Sorry, I'm not willing to overlook my own experiences and impressions based on a bunch of ramblings from some guys on a golf forum. I take EVERYTHING that I read GOOD or BAD with a grain of salt and some other should too. I think that's ultimately the root of the problem here to be honest.

[quote name='Socrates' 2 iron' post='2044395' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:42 PM'][quote name='rebels68' post='2044323' date='Nov 3 2009, 10:01 PM']There was the pro noticing the marks, the guy was so angry and desperate that Derek and Marcus did meet
with him in his hotel lobby to deal with the issue and Derek did apologize afterwards in the open forums for
letting those irons leave the shop in that condition and they were bent upright, not flat. But, there's no doubt
EDOE posted in the forums before talking with anyone at BSG. It was over the weekend and there was no way
anyone at BSG could have read the PM's and responded. From what I was told, there were very strong & angry
words exchanged at that meeting in the hotel lobby. The guy was irate. In this case, BSG took care of this guy the
best way they could have. This particular incident cannot be used as an example of poor treatment of a customer.
Yes, the marks on the clubs can be considered shoddy work, but, I don't think there are many clubmakers that don't
make a mistake once in awhile. The work DTown did on some of my stuff was first rate.[/quote]

Look, might well this guy have pulled the trigger on his post in the open forums prematurely, and if so that's his folly, but seriously the whole thing was a joke. I don't care what anyone says, the BSG moderators and Administrators were/are online a LOT - weekends, holidays, all hours of the night - there was always someone online. So here's this guy he's just paid $3000.00 for a set of irons, possibly more, from a business which bills itself as first-rate, top-notch, high-end, where supposedly no order is too tall, no task too great, where customer satisfaction is not only important but valued, and he's stuck with a mangled set of irons and no one to tell him everything is going to be okay. And moreover, when he finally goes to the public forum to make his claim, he gets harassed by a litany of BSG apologists. Ridiculous.

I'm glad he cussed DT and Hoss up and down.
[/quote]

I already commented what I think about the whole Edoe issue, but what about your recent dealings? How come no details about that? As I asked earlier, why not mention exactly what head and shaft BSG was deceptive about. You never responded to that which I think would be very interesting and possibly helpful to others to know. You said that there was a clear deception about the head based on the serial number and a prototype shaft was substitued for the retail shaft that you wanted eventhough they were not the same. THAT would be a pretty clear case of deception unless it was a mistake of some sort. So, let's hear the details on this one because this would likely be the most concrete proof of any allegations that anyone has made.

[costamesagolfer]

Parbeater says he is just a lurker on both BSG and WRX. Yet all of his posts in a almost a year is in this thread. And being just a lurker just happened to be one of the few on this earth that have seen Todd and the BSG staff swing, and played golf with them, assuring us they are all very good golfers.

If this isn't Todd or one of the BSG crew I would be very surprised.