g400 lst shaft advice to lower spin

adamr12adamr12 Members Posts: 194 ✭✭
edited Jun 6, 2018 in WRX Club Techs #1
Trying to find a lower spin shaft without changing my launch angle.



Current specs- G400 lst 10 set to 9 to open face. Tour 65 stiff 45".



Swing info - gc quad numbers

ball speed average 150-154

swing path - slightly inside or neutral

angle of attack moves around from -2 to 0.

Aggressive transition



Not looking for swing advice. I know I should get my angle attack positive but I have struggled with this for a long time.



Shafts I have tried in this head so far.



Tour 65 stiff, project x lz hc 64G 6.0, x torsion 60 s.

As for feel. Tour 65 feels really solid and stable to me, project x lz feels nice but I always feel like its behind in the swing, x torsion is hard for me to feel the head and control but feels fast if that makes sense.



I have been doing tests of 10 shots each and tour 65 always gives best averages.



All of these shafts show good spin numbers if struck high toe. Center face or lower and spin jumps way to high 3500-5000.



HIgh toe shots for me are either great, bad hook or high block that goes no where. Too many variables.



I would ideally like something that lowers my spin when struck center. All these shafts produce to much spin on center or just below.



Any advice would be well appreciated. Thanks

Comments

  • MadGolfer76MadGolfer76 Admiration is the state furthest from understanding. Members Posts: 19,840 ✭✭
    3500+ spin isn't going to be fixed with a shaft, hommes. Any time you miss hit the ball, the spin is going to be off. Just the way it is.
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  • LlortamaiseyLlortamaisey Members Posts: 5,875 ✭✭
    The G400 LST 8.5 Head adjusted up to 9 might help bring spin down just a bit. I owned both heads and found the 8.5 to spin significantly lower than the 10.
  • adamr12adamr12 Members Posts: 194 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #4


    3500+ spin isn't going to be fixed with a shaft, hommes. Any time you miss hit the ball, the spin is going to be off. Just the way it is.




    I know miss hits will cost me but those high spin numbers are with middle strikes.

    An example of one is .4 in to out. , .9 open to path, 1.3 down, 11 launch, 18 dynamic loft, ball hit center of face horizontal and vertical. Side spin 79 rpm right, back spin 3200 rpm
  • adamr12adamr12 Members Posts: 194 ✭✭


    The G400 LST 8.5 Head adjusted up to 9 might help bring spin down just a bit. I owned both heads and found the 8.5 to spin significantly lower than the 10.


    Thanks If I can find someone to swap I will try this.
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  • Albatross85Albatross85 Tiger is the GOAT St. Louis, MOMembers Posts: 2,830 ✭✭
    You are confused. AOA has very little affect on spin. Strike and gear effect are the keys. You can swing down with a driver and still get very low spin.
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  • adamr12adamr12 Members Posts: 194 ✭✭


    You are confused. AOA has very little affect on spin. Strike and gear effect are the keys. You can swing down with a driver and still get very low spin.




    Fair enough. Could you help me understand what could be the contributing factor for high spin on this shot. These are gc quad numbers.



    An example of one is .4 in to out. 152 mph ball, 106 mph club , .9 open to path, 1.3 down, 11 launch, 18 dynamic loft, 8mm toe, 0.7mm low, Side spin 79 rpm right, back spin 3200 rpm. I feel like everything is pretty neutral.
  • Kenny Lee PuckettKenny Lee Puckett Members Posts: 3,460 ✭✭
    adamr12 wrote:



    You are confused. AOA has very little affect on spin. Strike and gear effect are the keys. You can swing down with a driver and still get very low spin.




    Fair enough. Could you help me understand what could be the contributing factor for high spin on this shot. These are gc quad numbers.



    An example of one is .4 in to out. 152 mph ball, 106 mph club , .9 open to path, 1.3 down, 11 launch, 18 dynamic loft, 8mm toe, 0.7mm low, Side spin 79 rpm right, back spin 3200 rpm. I feel like everything is pretty neutral.
    152 ball speed coming outta 106 indicates Smash Factor is not stellar.



    IMO that launch is too low and spin 500+ too high, indicating a strike a little lower on the driver face than GC Quad is correctly calculating.
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  • bag302bag302 Posts: 635
    Try to strike higher on the face. Raising the strike point will lower spin and increase launch with what you have.



    Jut tee it higher basically
  • ValtielValtiel Konica-Minolta Bizhub Members Posts: 1,783 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #11
    Ken Lee Pucket and bag302 are right. All things being equal you can not change spin without changing loft. All things NOT being equal, better strikes will lower your spin and Ken Lee is right in pointing out that 152mph ball speed off of 106mph clubhead speed is not ideal and indicates you are not making strikes as solid as you think you are. Those numbers together make a smash factor of ~1.434 which is a decent bit below optimal. You should be striving for 1.48 (giving you 157mph ball speed) for the purposes of fine tuning spin because then you know you're not getting spin numbers based on gear effect. All a shaft can do is change your dynamic loft (and possibly your delivery if the shaft feels much different) and if your problem is inefficient strikes, likely below the CG causing increased spin, then a shaft will not help you.
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  • adamr12adamr12 Members Posts: 194 ✭✭

    adamr12 wrote:



    You are confused. AOA has very little affect on spin. Strike and gear effect are the keys. You can swing down with a driver and still get very low spin.




    Fair enough. Could you help me understand what could be the contributing factor for high spin on this shot. These are gc quad numbers.



    An example of one is .4 in to out. 152 mph ball, 106 mph club , .9 open to path, 1.3 down, 11 launch, 18 dynamic loft, 8mm toe, 0.7mm low, Side spin 79 rpm right, back spin 3200 rpm. I feel like everything is pretty neutral.
    152 ball speed coming outta 106 indicates Smash Factor is not stellar.



    IMO that launch is too low and spin 500+ too high, indicating a strike a little lower on the driver face than GC Quad is correctly calculating.




    My launch is usually around 15-16. That was just a random shot I grabbed data from. I have been working on strike higher on the face. For whatever reason which I do not know but when I strike higher on the face it is always toe side
  • adamr12adamr12 Members Posts: 194 ✭✭
    Valtiel wrote:


    Ken Lee Pucket and bag302 are right. All things being equal you can not change spin without changing loft. All things NOT being equal, better strikes will lower your spin and Ken Lee is right in pointing out that 152mph ball speed off of 106mph clubhead speed is not ideal and indicates you are not making strikes as solid as you think you are. Those numbers together make a smash factor of ~1.434 which is a decent bit below optimal. You should be striving for 1.48 (giving you 157mph ball speed) for the purposes of fine tuning spin because then you know you're not getting spin numbers based on gear effect. All a shaft can do is change your dynamic loft (and possibly your delivery if the shaft feels much different) and if your problem is inefficient strikes, likely below the CG causing increased spin, then a shaft will not help you.




    I agree that my strike could be better. I also think gc quad reads club speed higher then trackman by about 5mph.
  • adamr12adamr12 Members Posts: 194 ✭✭
    Valtiel wrote:


    Ken Lee Pucket and bag302 are right. All things being equal you can not change spin without changing loft. All things NOT being equal, better strikes will lower your spin and Ken Lee is right in pointing out that 152mph ball speed off of 106mph clubhead speed is not ideal and indicates you are not making strikes as solid as you think you are. Those numbers together make a smash factor of ~1.434 which is a decent bit below optimal. You should be striving for 1.48 (giving you 157mph ball speed) for the purposes of fine tuning spin because then you know you're not getting spin numbers based on gear effect. All a shaft can do is change your dynamic loft (and possibly your delivery if the shaft feels much different) and if your problem is inefficient strikes, likely below the CG causing increased spin, then a shaft will not help you.




    I appreciate all the advice. Thanks
  • Albatross85Albatross85 Tiger is the GOAT St. Louis, MOMembers Posts: 2,830 ✭✭
    I misread the stats. Disregard my loft comment
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  • OknowsOknows Members Posts: 1,048 ✭✭
    Just put an ‘ahina in mine and seem to be getting better flight/spin. To the eye anyway.
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  • QwiklapQwiklap An aspiring hacker ... Members Posts: 576 ✭✭
    edited Jun 7, 2018 #17
    My setup below still launches high (15-17*) but spins low (2200 to 2500 RPM). And most importantly flies straight (usually with a draw). Peak height is around 30 to 35 yards. I have similar ball speeds to yours in the high 140s to low 150s -- all of this measured by Skytrak.



    BTW -- a low face or heel mishit for me will still spin to 3000+ (but that is just a bad strike). You have to hit these modern clubs slightly high and toe side to get the most out of them (as I understand).
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • rsballer10rsballer10 Members Posts: 740 ✭✭
    Grip down 1/2" and see if that doesn't knock down your spin. Other than that, maybe go to a heavier shaft.
  • moonshinemoonshine 64 @ Augusta? No problem! North Charleston, SCClubWRX Posts: 6,349 ✭✭
    1. Never listed well struck spin rate

    2. My spin with g lstec was low 2k at 0 attack angle...nothing Epic threw at me could get that low. KK 60TX shaft

    3. Tried max head?
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  • just winjust win Members Posts: 464 ✭✭
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  • bigD77bigD77 Members Posts: 213
    I swing similarly to you... speed (104/5 on trackman) and AoA, though I have a moderate transition.



    Couple things:



    -I noticed a couple hundred RPM difference moving from the 10* to the 8.5 head. You also mentioned a 15* launch...8.5 head could be great for you

    -I was playing a Hzrdus Yellow and moved to a Fubuki J (and tried other "stiffer" options in between). Because I could load and time the Fubuki much better than the others, my strike got much more consistent, so my spin came down. Now I'm around 2500 on good strikes, which is pretty optimal for me.



    Point is, give a shaft with a slightly different profile a try (especially if that Ping Tour feels good), and see if it helps your timing and strike.



    Something like the Fuji Evolution range comes to mind...might even tip it a little to bring the launch/spin down. I got great results from the Fuji Evo 757...and the heavier shaft might be a good thing for your more aggressive transition.
  • adamr12adamr12 Members Posts: 194 ✭✭
    moonshine wrote:


    1. Never listed well struck spin rate

    2. My spin with g lstec was low 2k at 0 attack angle...nothing Epic threw at me could get that low. KK 60TX shaft

    3. Tried max head?




    Well struck for me where I see best spin rates would be above center toe side which hovers around 2200-2500. Everywhere else it gets really high. Number one thing I have learned from all these replies is strike location is number 1. I would just love if there was something that could help minimize high spin on my misses. Only problem I see with that is spin on my good strikes will probably start getting to low I imagine.

    bigD77 wrote:


    I swing similarly to you... speed (104/5 on trackman) and AoA, though I have a moderate transition.



    Couple things:



    -I noticed a couple hundred RPM difference moving from the 10* to the 8.5 head. You also mentioned a 15* launch...8.5 head could be great for you

    -I was playing a Hzrdus Yellow and moved to a Fubuki J (and tried other "stiffer" options in between). Because I could load and time the Fubuki much better than the others, my strike got much more consistent, so my spin came down. Now I'm around 2500 on good strikes, which is pretty optimal for me.



    Point is, give a shaft with a slightly different profile a try (especially if that Ping Tour feels good), and see if it helps your timing and strike.



    Something like the Fuji Evolution range comes to mind...might even tip it a little to bring the launch/spin down. I got great results from the Fuji Evo 757...and the heavier shaft might be a good thing for your more aggressive transition.




    Thanks for the advice!
  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,847 ClubWRX
    edited Jun 7, 2018 #23
    If you can't find the "pegasus", I would forget about trying to maintain the high launch angle. You'll get better results my bringing your spin down with a lower launch.



    For example: 12-13.5* launch and mid to lower 2000's spin. Will give you more release and total distance when the fairway conditions allow for it....and will perform better in any wind condition.



    Use this as a goal for your center strikes,....then if you catch one higher on the face, you'll get a higher launch and less spin
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,170 ✭✭

    adamr12 wrote:



    You are confused. AOA has very little affect on spin. Strike and gear effect are the keys. You can swing down with a driver and still get very low spin.




    Fair enough. Could you help me understand what could be the contributing factor for high spin on this shot. These are gc quad numbers.



    An example of one is .4 in to out. 152 mph ball, 106 mph club , .9 open to path, 1.3 down, 11 launch, 18 dynamic loft, 8mm toe, 0.7mm low, Side spin 79 rpm right, back spin 3200 rpm. I feel like everything is pretty neutral.
    152 ball speed coming outta 106 indicates Smash Factor is not stellar.



    IMO that launch is too low and spin 500+ too high, indicating a strike a little lower on the driver face than GC Quad is correctly calculating.


    GCQuad over estimates swing speed by a few mph in most cases. Since quad measures the face, you almost don't need to pay attention to swing speed... you can see ball speed and strike location, quality of strike and thus "smash" can be gleaned. I've never really seen anybody have 1.5 smash on quad, even on perfect center hits, but I could be wrong. Conversely... Trackman usually UNDER estimates swingspeed, which is why you tend to see 1.51 and 1.52 smash scores with that.
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  • adamr12adamr12 Members Posts: 194 ✭✭
    Z1ggy16 wrote:


    adamr12 wrote:



    You are confused. AOA has very little affect on spin. Strike and gear effect are the keys. You can swing down with a driver and still get very low spin.




    Fair enough. Could you help me understand what could be the contributing factor for high spin on this shot. These are gc quad numbers.



    An example of one is .4 in to out. 152 mph ball, 106 mph club , .9 open to path, 1.3 down, 11 launch, 18 dynamic loft, 8mm toe, 0.7mm low, Side spin 79 rpm right, back spin 3200 rpm. I feel like everything is pretty neutral.
    152 ball speed coming outta 106 indicates Smash Factor is not stellar.



    IMO that launch is too low and spin 500+ too high, indicating a strike a little lower on the driver face than GC Quad is correctly calculating.


    GCQuad over estimates swing speed by a few mph in most cases. Since quad measures the face, you almost don't need to pay attention to swing speed... you can see ball speed and strike location, quality of strike and thus "smash" can be gleaned. I've never really seen anybody have 1.5 smash on quad, even on perfect center hits, but I could be wrong. Conversely... Trackman usually UNDER estimates swingspeed, which is why you tend to see 1.51 and 1.52 smash scores with that.




    Ya everything I have seen and the monitors I have been on I can say for sure that gc quad always gives a higher swing speed. Ball speed should always be on par though. Gc quad max smash is 1.45 I believe also. I have a skytrak at home and my numbers are always lower then gc quad. I would like to believe gc quad because of price point but I am very happy with skytrak. 3 years now and not a single issue.
  • adamr12adamr12 Members Posts: 194 ✭✭
    Cwebb wrote:


    If you can't find the "pegasus", I would forget about trying to maintain the high launch angle. You'll get better results my bringing your spin down with a lower launch.



    For example: 12-13.5* launch and mid to lower 2000's spin. Will give you more release and total distance when the fairway conditions allow for it....and will perform better in any wind condition.



    Use this as a goal for your center strikes,....then if you catch one higher on the face, you'll get a higher launch and less spin




    Good advice! Thank You
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