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TP5x vs SNELL MTB X... "MY" actual results

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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,368 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @arbeck said:
    A normal human is never going to hit enough shots with a ball to really find a performance difference in distance off the driver. To find a performance difference off the driver I imagine you'd have to hit 100 or more of each ball off the same tee and record all of their distances to have enough data to say anything. Otherwise you're going have so much noise from strike, bounces, atmospheric conditions, and everything else to overwhelm any conclusions. You could probably do it in 20 shots or so with a Trackman or GC Quad, but not many of us have access to that.

    I think in an interview Dean Snell once said that when they're developing golf balls and need to test two prototypes to see which one is longer, they need more than 100 shots with each ball even on a robot. It would be many hundreds with even a highly skilled human golfer.

    Of course in manufacturer testing, they want to be totally sure and they're probably trying to distinguish very small differences.

    “1lb beefstak, with
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  • jjfcpajjfcpa Driver - Tour Edge EXS 10.5 Omaha, NEMembers Posts: 499 ✭✭✭✭

    @arbeck said:

    @jjfcpa said:

    @autronicdsm said:
    I think when doing ball testing, robot results are what matters. You want to hit each ball with exactly the same speed and on the same spot on the face so that you can compare ball speed and spin relative to each other. If you hit a ball A on the sweet spot, and then you hit a ball B few mm off the sweet spot then your results are flawed

    Not to disagree with you, but I think after you review the robot testing, you'll have nothing more than an indication of what kind of performance you may get from a golf ball. Unfortunately, a robot has no way to tell you how a ball feels coming off your various golf clubs. That's where real world performance on the course takes over and that's what ultimately will help you decide on which ball is the right one for you.

    Feel is not real. Your feel also won't tell you what kind of performance you'll get from a golf ball. It may feel so bad that you can't enjoy playing it, but that doesn't mean that it's performance wouldn't be best for you. I actually prefer the feel of a Wilson Duo. I love the marshmallow fill that makes me feel like I've middled everything. But I know that I'm giving up some performance if I use it. Maybe some people don't care, but I don't think those are the kind of people who hang out here.

    A normal human is never going to hit enough shots with a ball to really find a performance difference in distance off the driver. To find a performance difference off the driver I imagine you'd have to hit 100 or more of each ball off the same tee and record all of their distances to have enough data to say anything. Otherwise you're going have so much noise from strike, bounces, atmospheric conditions, and everything else to overwhelm any conclusions. You could probably do it in 20 shots or so with a Trackman or GC Quad, but not many of us have access to that.

    When picking a ball, you should first decide if you are willing to give up ball speed for feel. If you aren't, then you have to pick a ball firm enough for your swing speed. For me (who's swinging a driver just under 100MPH), that means picking a ball in the 100 compression range (I don't really gain anything from going firmer and I don't love the feel of the firm balls). Looking at the raw data from the tests of those balls (Snell MTB Black, Bridgestone BXS, Titleist Pro V1, Mizuno RB Tour, Callaway Chromesoft X, Srixon Z Star, Taylormade TP5), there's less than 2MPH of ball speed and 300RPM of spin between the top and bottom balls with a driver. I'm never going to be able to tell a difference between them on the course. With the irons, they all have basically identical launch angles and ball speed. Spin is the only separator. There's 1100RPM of spin between the lowest and highest spinning ball with a 7i. I think I could probably notice that over a couple of rounds, and I'd easily notice it on a launch monitor. I don't know if I'd notice the distance difference on a course, but I'd probably notice that I got fliers a bit more often with one ball type. The data off the wedge is basically the same again for them all and my strike is going to be the most important factor. I don't think I could ever tell a difference in play with the wedges.

    So out of those balls, I eliminated the Chromesoft X because of it's low spin off irons and what maybe QC issues (I know they have their issues, I don't know if they're worse than anyone else but I don't think they're better and I have other options so why chance it?). I eliminated the RB Tour based on durability issues (I was using 3 balls a round even when not losing a single ball) and price. The Pro V1 and TP5 were eliminated on price. The Snell, Bridgestone and Srixon are all very close on price (unless I'm buying the Snell in bulk, I'm paying $27 and $34 for the Srixon and Bridgestone through Amazon subscribe and pay vs $33 for the Snell) and the performance is so close that I'm unlikely to be able to tell the difference. If one of the balls felt horrible, I wouldn't play it; but I don't think I'd be able to identify them blind. I probably go through a dozen balls every two months on average so a few dollars difference is no big deal. So I've narrowed it down to the Bridgestone or Srixon. Nothing against the Snell, but unless it's cheaper I'd rather play one of the bigger brands. The Srixon is $7 cheaper than the Bridgestone. But is $3.50 a month really a big deal? The Bridgestone has slightly more iron spin in tests, but probably not enough that I would notice. So right now I'm playing them both and trying to pick the more durable one.

    Long story short, how they perform during rounds has almost ZERO to do with me picking a ball. I've got a long list of balls that I know have numbers fit my swing speed and spin needs. Unless one somehow feels WAY better than the others feel doesn't have much to do with it. After that it's simply durability and price.

    I'd like to know where you are buying your Srixon Z Star or Bridgestone BXS as a comparable price to the Snell MTB Black? For the money, I don't think you can beat the Snell golf balls.

  • CasualWaterCasualWater Members Posts: 42 ✭✭

    I wanted to make two comments. First, I am not a statistician, but I do work with a few of them, PhD level. Their main role for us is to determine the count of samples that are needed to determine, with a planned level of accuracy, the experimental outcome. The smaller the difference between the sample types, the larger the number of samples of each type that need to be tested. That makes sense, but not really obvious if you didn't think about it. For your personal tests, the robots give you an idea of which balls fit what you are looking for. I don't think there is any more you could hope for than that with the very small testing they do - one set of launch for each speed.
    Second, the robot testing is not testing enough balls or batches of balls to determine consistency between balls.
    There is material inconsistency and manufacturing inconsistency to deal with. I would love to know what each manufacturer does to test their balls.
    Do they do it by batch, or by a set count, say every 200 balls? Do they test for roundness, consistent roll? All that would be good to know.
    I notice that when I play Pro V1x, I don't see any really difference, ball to ball, they all seem OK, the same. A pretty good fit for me.
    When I play the Snell MTB-X, I do see variability, some last me hole after hole, some I can barely keep in play, they just seem to go all over.
    Do I think it is 90% me and 10% ball, yes I do. Not due to ball defect, but maybe due to some spinning more than others. Really IDK, and I don't care. But I won't play them on tight courses. But that is part of the game, we get to choose the ball we play.
    I am going to try the Vice Pro next - because it was listed as very straight in the robot testing - and I need that - I know I will miss the distance of the MTB-X.
    I just heard about the low spinning Pro V1x, I think it is a "- Pro V1x" coming out in October - will try that for sure.

  • jjfcpajjfcpa Driver - Tour Edge EXS 10.5 Omaha, NEMembers Posts: 499 ✭✭✭✭

    Spent a couple hours or so at the chipping and putting range with the TP5x and the MTB-X. Performance wise, the MTB-X was easier for me to control - I could fly it the distance I wanted with more consistency than with the TP5x. I really did not like the softer feel of the TP5x off the putter face. The MTB-X also seems to be more controllable spin-wise. They would checkup with less rollout when trying to fly them to the hole. I think if I played the TP5x for a dozen rounds or more, I could make into a gamer, but I'm not sure it would give me any better results and, of course, it would cost me a little more money.

  • colinhlaucolinhlau Members Posts: 16 ✭✭

    Def want to try some Snells now. Great to see sub $40 dozens competing with higher priced options.

  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers Posts: 484 ✭✭✭✭

    @jjfcpa said:

    I'd like to know where you are buying your Srixon Z Star or Bridgestone BXS as a comparable price to the Snell MTB Black? For the money, I don't think you can beat the Snell golf balls.

    Amazon. The Z-star is $27 when I subscribe and save. The BXS is $34.

    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
  • Go_Blue!Go_Blue! HAIL! Members Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I've thoroughly tested the TP5 (non x) and MTB-X. These play very, very similar. TP5 feels a little better to me (softer). The TP5 seems to be a touch more stable for me off the tee. The MTB-X seemed to veer more on mmisfits. Both are very long. Both balls play eerily similar 100 yards and in. MTB-X might have just a touch more mid iron spin.
    Really enjoy playing both and will continue to do so.

    8.5* Ping G400 LST w/ Tensei Blue 60TX
    15* TM M1 w/ Rogue Silver X
    19* Bridgestone J36
    4-PW Srixon Z745 w/ TTDG X100
    52.12 F, 56.14 F, 60.10 S Titleist SM6
    Taylormade Spider Tour Black
    Srixon Z Star XV
  • jjfcpajjfcpa Driver - Tour Edge EXS 10.5 Omaha, NEMembers Posts: 499 ✭✭✭✭

    @Go_Blue! said:
    I've thoroughly tested the TP5 (non x) and MTB-X. These play very, very similar. TP5 feels a little better to me (softer). The TP5 seems to be a touch more stable for me off the tee. The MTB-X seemed to veer more on mmisfits. Both are very long. Both balls play eerily similar 100 yards and in. MTB-X might have just a touch more mid iron spin.
    Really enjoy playing both and will continue to do so.

    Just wondering, if they are so similar, why would you pay more for the TP5 when you can get the MTB-X for less? Not trying to be sarcastic, but like you, I also play the MTB-X, and I do have a dozen of the TP5's that perhaps I should try out. I've kind of gotten really used to the firmer feel of the MTB-X and when I try to play a softer ball... I just can't feel it.

  • monks66monks66 Members Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jjfcpa said:
    Spent a couple hours or so at the chipping and putting range with the TP5x and the MTB-X. Performance wise, the MTB-X was easier for me to control - I could fly it the distance I wanted with more consistency than with the TP5x. I really did not like the softer feel of the TP5x off the putter face. The MTB-X also seems to be more controllable spin-wise. They would checkup with less rollout when trying to fly them to the hole. I think if I played the TP5x for a dozen rounds or more, I could make into a gamer, but I'm not sure it would give me any better results and, of course, it would cost me a little more money.

    I chuckle , but not in a bad way, the MTB-X was supposedly your "utopia" ball. Again, i chuckle because i myself have chosen a utopia ball, but I keep trying new balls, i guess its fun to try new balls , and have never really settled on a ball

  • Go_Blue!Go_Blue! HAIL! Members Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @jjfcpa said:

    @Go_Blue! said:
    I've thoroughly tested the TP5 (non x) and MTB-X. These play very, very similar. TP5 feels a little better to me (softer). The TP5 seems to be a touch more stable for me off the tee. The MTB-X seemed to veer more on mmisfits. Both are very long. Both balls play eerily similar 100 yards and in. MTB-X might have just a touch more mid iron spin.
    Really enjoy playing both and will continue to do so.

    Just wondering, if they are so similar, why would you pay more for the TP5 when you can get the MTB-X for less? Not trying to be sarcastic, but like you, I also play the MTB-X, and I do have a dozen of the TP5's that perhaps I should try out. I've kind of gotten really used to the firmer feel of the MTB-X and when I try to play a softer ball... I just can't feel it.

    Fair to question. For me, the consistency off the tee and mid iron spin have been what keeps the TP5 in the bag the majority of the time. The MTB-X is a fantastic ball, and one I'll continue to put in play, but the TP5 does a couple things just a little bit better for my game.

    8.5* Ping G400 LST w/ Tensei Blue 60TX
    15* TM M1 w/ Rogue Silver X
    19* Bridgestone J36
    4-PW Srixon Z745 w/ TTDG X100
    52.12 F, 56.14 F, 60.10 S Titleist SM6
    Taylormade Spider Tour Black
    Srixon Z Star XV
  • MichaelYHMichaelYH Members Posts: 2

    Good to know that.

  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers Posts: 484 ✭✭✭✭

    @jjfcpa said:
    Just wondering, if they are so similar, why would you pay more for the TP5 when you can get the MTB-X for less? Not trying to be sarcastic, but like you, I also play the MTB-X, and I do have a dozen of the TP5's that perhaps I should try out. I've kind of gotten really used to the firmer feel of the MTB-X and when I try to play a softer ball... I just can't feel it.

    I would assume it's a feel thing. I don't like the feel of a Pro V1x or Z-Star XV. That tells me I'd probably like the harder MTB-X even less. The TP5 has almost identical numbers to the MTB-X with a lower compression. As someone who actually prefers balls that feel like the Wilson Duo Urethane, Srixon Q-Star Tour, and Bridgestone BRXS; I can see how going to that firm of a ball could be an issue. It's probably something I could get used to though, as it didn't take me long to get used to the balls in the 100 compression range.

    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
  • Go_Blue!Go_Blue! HAIL! Members Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @arbeck said:

    @jjfcpa said:
    Just wondering, if they are so similar, why would you pay more for the TP5 when you can get the MTB-X for less? Not trying to be sarcastic, but like you, I also play the MTB-X, and I do have a dozen of the TP5's that perhaps I should try out. I've kind of gotten really used to the firmer feel of the MTB-X and when I try to play a softer ball... I just can't feel it.

    I would assume it's a feel thing. I don't like the feel of a Pro V1x or Z-Star XV. That tells me I'd probably like the harder MTB-X even less. The TP5 has almost identical numbers to the MTB-X with a lower compression. As someone who actually prefers balls that feel like the Wilson Duo Urethane, Srixon Q-Star Tour, and Bridgestone BRXS; I can see how going to that firm of a ball could be an issue. It's probably something I could get used to though, as it didn't take me long to get used to the balls in the 100 compression range.

    Already answered this above but you are right...Feel is another positive for the TP5.

    8.5* Ping G400 LST w/ Tensei Blue 60TX
    15* TM M1 w/ Rogue Silver X
    19* Bridgestone J36
    4-PW Srixon Z745 w/ TTDG X100
    52.12 F, 56.14 F, 60.10 S Titleist SM6
    Taylormade Spider Tour Black
    Srixon Z Star XV
  • Always PingAlways Ping Members Posts: 9 ✭✭

    I really enjoy hearing how everyone tests for the golf ball they want to use. i had been a fairly consistent user of the TP5X at the end of 2018 and into 2019. I would have been fine except my golf fitter said I had to try the new 2019 ProV1X, which I did. I usually work my testing backwards? I take the ball out and play with it. I am a feel player. I don't even like to hit into a net in the winter because I can't see where it's going or how the flight is. Once i have played a number of rounds I then go inside to test the numbers. Typically by the time i go inside, I know what ball I want to use because of the feel. Now i want to know the numbers for carry on each club, how much spin left or right, how high do they go? I am not looking for anything in particular, just want to know how the ball will react when I hit it. Having said all that, after comparing the 2017 TP5X and the 2019 Prov1X, i chose the Prov1X. It is softer than prior versions, and i get great carry also. for me, it is actually a little bit shorter than the TP5X. What sold me was that i am able to move my driver and irons left and right easier than with TP5X. Plus the feel of the 2019 Prov1X was better for me. Finally, the Prov1X comes in Optic Yellow! Almost all tour balls will give us the distance we all want. It comes down to personal preference and feel. When you stand over the ball, you have to be confident in your choices. i'm a 5 Hcp with 100 MPH driver. Been playing for 50 years. Started playing with the Dunlop DDH back in the day. Hit it straight!!

  • GolfHavenGolfHaven Members Posts: 4

    Finally settled on two balls. Project - (a) and TP5X. I think my search is over and now I am going to be heads down working on my game. In the end it was just a question of trust and money of course. The P-a gives me a cheaper option for practice rounds and non-familiar courses and the TP5X serves as my premium option. I have no problems switching between the two balls and feel that I can have trust either one. I just couldn’t build trust in the MTB-X. Some posters here and on other forums have confirmed the side spin issues I experienced with this ball and attributed it to quality control issues.
    I just don’t believe that you should have to try a ball for so many rounds before you figure out if it works for you. If you play regularly it should be pretty obvious. I have tried balls that for my swing have a draw bias, those that have a fade bias and some that may go both ways. There are so many things I need to work on to improve my swing and so I need to have a ball that works for my swing.

  • monks66monks66 Members Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    that TP5X has me entrigued now, see a lot of good reviews on it...oh no another utopia ball for me LOL! love Golf!

  • Red4282Red4282 Members Posts: 424 ✭✭✭✭

    @jjfcpa said:

    @Go_Blue! said:
    I've thoroughly tested the TP5 (non x) and MTB-X. These play very, very similar. TP5 feels a little better to me (softer). The TP5 seems to be a touch more stable for me off the tee. The MTB-X seemed to veer more on mmisfits. Both are very long. Both balls play eerily similar 100 yards and in. MTB-X might have just a touch more mid iron spin.
    Really enjoy playing both and will continue to do so.

    Just wondering, if they are so similar, why would you pay more for the TP5 when you can get the MTB-X for less? Not trying to be sarcastic, but like you, I also play the MTB-X, and I do have a dozen of the TP5's that perhaps I should try out. I've kind of gotten really used to the firmer feel of the MTB-X and when I try to play a softer ball... I just can't feel it.

    Its not THAT much more expensive. A few bucks. Tp5s can be had 32-35 a dozen if you look hard enough.

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