Short game is killing me

I'm not that great of a golfer, 100's but if I could get my short game (20 and in) under control 10 strokes an 18 easy. Maybe more in some cases.

I realize hard work and practice, but golf ain't that easy.... Meaning... What do you have to practice and work hard at? I have 5 wedges and usually do okay with them full distance, but 20 in it's a joke. 3 holes in a row I had 260 total drive with solid approaches no GIR but close and just 3 - 4 strokes to get in.... Makes you want to quit the game to be completely honest. Especially when some loser is worm burning and ties you.

I'm soooooo freaking close to getting a square strike or some similar product. I work 40+ hours a week and have a family. I might just circumvent the short game and use the "cheater" club.

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I work very hard at my short game, and it has become a real stroke saver. The beauty of developing a good short game, is you don't need to be young or athletic to do so. Keep working at it...you'll get it.

Search for the thread on the Kevin Kisner pitching lesson. It's been a real eye opener for me. I've always tried to use the bounce but didn't understand how the grip and chest need to rotate at the same time. The more I do it correctly the more I feel it reinforces Monte's "keep the right arm moving" teaching. Once your technique is solid you can actually work on developing touch.

Most higher handicappers who lack proper instruction perform chips like a cut down version of a full shot, with very active hands. If that’s what you’re doing, practicing is the last thing you need. The way to consistency is what several of the above posters are referring to, which is basically a unit turn. The key to unlocking the sequence is actually foot placement, not hitting balls. A lesson from a competent instructor is needed.

As mentioned, various chipping techniques employed by numerous experts. In my case, mental confusion which technique to use and my inferior skill in all techniques results in many fat, skulls other ugly shots when near the green.

I watched, more than once, Kisner's chip video and found it helpful. For me best with 9i not any wedge. Short chips to a near pin the most stressful; often now with those shots I'm using a putter.

And of course, in golf 'any club, any time, any where' so i can wholeheartedly recommend, when faced with insecurity and a need to get on the green, pull out the putter when within 20 yrds of green, whenever possible. Sure might draw a laugh or two, but think of the satisfaction of beating the 'worm burner'.

What's helped most with my short game is focusing on just ONE wedge and learning how to hit pretty much all the shots I'll need most of the time with it. For me, that's my 52°. Of course, there're times I'll need more or less loft but in general, knowing how to hit various distances/trajectories with just one club really simplifies everything and I don't really need to guess so much.

I really believe folks overly complicate the short game with all the wedge options out there. I'm not one of those "You only need 5 clubs" kinda dudes but I do believe you don't need more than 2 wedges - one low bounce, one high bounce.

Ok, as a hacker lucky to break 100, to then regular 90s and now mid 80s, short game has been a staple for improvement. Heck it kept me from 100 plus scores many many times...

So, a couple of questions:

1. Where do you lose shots? Is it the chip or the putt? Can you chip it close but stuff up the putt. Or is it more the chip leaving you a long putt?

2. Once on the green do you think in terms of two putts outside 10 foot?

3. What's your thought when stepping in to chip?

4. If in the bunker, what's your swing thought?

Yep, no technique yet. It's more mental than you realise. Technique is easy IMHO. Getting the thoughts in line is WAY more important.

Could be mental; could be technique. Either way, pick the one wedge that works best for you (50-56) then go to the range and hit 1000 balls or more from 20 yards in. Experiment with ball placement, shaft lean, and accelerating the follow through.

I bit the bullet and got a square strike clone (Mazel) in the amazon black Friday sales just gone. My thinking is this. I have very little time to practice so decided to go with 3 very specialist short game clubs. The lowest lofted club I will hit full is my Gap wedge. Then I have the Square Strike for chip and runs. The Cleveland smart sole for sand and the callaway sure out for lobs. makes my decisions far easier and currently has reduced my misses by a good margin.

Assuming chipping/pitching is the issue, not putting, here are the most common faults I observe regularly playing with players with weak short games:

1. Failure to start with at least a slightly open clubface. You need to open the clubface to expose the bounce which greatly increases margin for error. Start with it about 30 degrees open, then learn to adjust for the desired shot. Many are clearly uncomfortable with opening the face.

2. Completely static lower body. You need some fluidity and a little pivot. The common phrase "chip how you putt" often leads to a frozen lower body.

3. Ball position too far back. If the ball is way back you can't release the club and low point of stroke works against you. You generally want a shallow and long flat spot at the bottom of the arc and shouldn't be afraid of contacting the ground slightly before the ball if you're using the bounce properly.

4. Handle dragging/too much forward shaft lean. Again, I think this comes from bad/misinterpreted advice and prevents releasing the club properly, if at all. Need to release it and let the sole glide along the ground.

5. Rolling the toe down. (Related to #1 above) Assuming a player commits to starting with the clubface slightly open, many get antsy and flip/roll the toe over at impact which makes the ball take off too hot. It's a comfort/optics thing and takes practice to get comfortable.

6. Handle/handpath chasing down the line. The handle generally should track your body rotation (around). Having the arms separate from your rotating core and chase DTL is a good way to develop chipping shanks.

Hope this helps!

LOVE IT, but from a non expert I think number 2 is also just as often overactive lower body and people have that issue as well with their putting even when they think they don't.

OP, full disclosure, I've been working with Monte and watching others work with him for a few years now so I'm biased and there are plenty of good instructors and others posting on here as you can see.

For example in the above, ball too far back/thinking you also need shaft lean at impact often leads to presenting the leading edge to your ball. Work on a nice release and sequence and use the bounce and whether it's Monte or someone else, key in on folks teaching that. Monte's short game vids are gold. Sort through his Instagram account - gold. Carraher has some short game stuff you can find that is pretty interesting.

Can't say I've been diligent enough and frankly healthy enough to make the progress I'd like to see in my full swing (and not Monte's fault) but the gains I've made in short game since buying into what he teaches have been the single biggest thing that has helped my improvement the past few years. This will sound like a not-so passive brag but tough (!) - shot an 80 at Royal Troon I was really proud of (we won't talk about the total loss of brain function one one hole starting from the fairway with the second shot). The thing I'm most proud of for that round is that it involved a bunch of up and downs from 40 yards and in and around the greens, including a couple of bunker shots I still can't believe I hit (and Monte, my one thought that day for bunkers was hearing you say "just make a golf swing and try to leave it in the bunker", lol). Received some gracious compliments from a couple of caddies and playing companions about pitches and saves in that round and it really meant a lot to me and validated everything I've been working on. For other reasons committing to full Stenson with the 3w off the tee that day was also a big deal, lol, trust me, and it paid off.

Don't give up on the game - you still have at least half of it to learn!!!!

Awesome that Monte's teachings are helping you! I agree, Monte & Dan have some great short game material and mostly inline with what I try to do.

Regarding my post, I see all sorts of crazy short game blunders; my list only encompasses what I come across most often...lol! ?

I learned my technique mostly from a buddy of mine in NJ who has won a lot of State events. He can get it up and down from anywhere, and chips almost exclusively with a 60 often laid wide open like a pancake. Looks freaky at first, but once you learn to trust it it's very effective and pretty simple with plenty of margin for error.

Thanks for all the support. In the meantime I'm going to the dark side and using the square strike. That is until i can figure this out.
I hit 4 fairways and no OB's on the front 9 and shot a 48.....
Then proceeded to shoot a 58, most of which was either an erratic drive about 2 OB's and one chip behind a tree. But even with that horrible play the chipping was complete trash. I had 2 par 5s where I was 15 and 40 out for eagle. Course was playing 6500+ so I have some game. bogey both.
@Hertsjoatmon F it Square Strike. BTW in your sig you don't list SquareStrike!
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Just a follow up.
If it's good enough for Boy it's good enough for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOmaXF7wCjo

I would buy Monte's The Efficient Swing Series and then use the bounce 2.0. Very possible your short game issues can be improved by working on your over-all swing. If you flip it inside, sway off the ball, etc even little chips become very difficult. You said you can hit full wedges but can't chip, how about a 50 yard shot which is neither?

I can hit it, but my distance are off...... Need to keep working those. Currently for that shot I hit a 60 3/4 but it's going about 60 so still haven't figured out that distance. Thinking maybe a 1/2 56

I agree with this. Improving overall swing pattern and fundamentals will make mastering the short game stuff much more attainable. Especially important beyond static fundamentals is getting the arms and body moving together properly.

for when you have something really tall to get over don’t miss the long iron and rake out of the bunker too

If you can’t break 100 you shouldn’t be using a 60. I’m a 4 and only use it for specialty shots. A 56/54 is way more versatile and easier to hit. I would look at the Dave Stockton short game book. He advocates one wedge and learning a low shot and a high shot. Really makes it simple and then as you improve you can add variation to the the shots (opening face more/ball position etc)

It's not really a chipping package but maybe just semantics. I'm talking about mostly about little pitches from anywhere from just off the green to 40 or a bit more yards out but Use The Bounce 2.0 gives you the full arsenal around the greens. The other guys are probably right, but I'd do the opposite. I think getting his basic pitching motion down, working on proper sequence on smaller shots and studying Use The Bounce 2.0 will have positive overflow into your full swing a bit and your short game seems to be your focus. Now, you are shooting scores in the 100s, so the idea your full wedges are okay I'm not quite buying. Frankly I'd get Use The Bounce 2.0 and The Efficient Swing in combination - so much good stuff in both. But I'm also not kidding about going through Monte's Instagram in 2019 - some gems in there about pitching.

Hard to know what will work for someone else, but for me (just talking about me) I had to learn how to release the club properly (still a full swing issue) and it started with being able to do it anywhere from 5-40 yards from the green to learn a different short game, now it's "crept in" with longer wedge shots and still building. Everybody is different. Those pitching fundamentals of Monte's are a pretty good foundation, IMO.

No coach here, lol, just a now 7 handicap - which may be hanging by a thread depending on what happens when the "world" handicap shows up January 7 or so. But point is, it's a lot lower than it used to be and my short game is a lot more consistent.

I'm not big on the giving advice on the internet thing, but I've helped a couple of people with getting ONE decent chipping stroke so they can play without the big score.

But, you've got to give more information. So are you failing from 20 yards or 20 feet? What is the nature of your failure? Are you digging behind the ball and duffing it? Are you hitting it thin and sending it 20 feet past the hole and over the green?

What happens when you chip, exactly? You have five wedges, which one do you like the best? Do you ever chip with say an 8 or a 9 iron?

Not everyone can truly develop a short game to wizard status, but I think anyone that can sweep a floor with a broom can get a working chip shot.

Inconsistency with chipping. Duffs/Skulls, but mainly to much with roll out. Trying to make a nice solid strike and it goes to far usually off the green just barely. No check up or back spin, distance control is terrible. Tight lies are brutal..... I like to pop the ball up but it doing so it continues to roll. Sometimes I play it back with the shaft lean, (I know not good) but it beats a duff. It'll roll out too much unless you land it really short. But sometimes you catch it with heavy spin and it stops in it's track.....

46, 52, 56 and 60 full shots are okay, can hit greens fine. Nothing special but they come in with a little draw, maybe a yard, that is mainly with the 46, the others are generally straight flight, maybe a couple of feet of draw. Still haven't played with 43 yet, want to practice it. On flight scope it's around 135 carry.

My full swing is pretty good. Been working on grip and staying over the ball, controlled back swing. I work with a PGA professional on full swing and driver.... Even pitching, but chipping doesn't come up....

It's something I should be able to work on, on my own.... Putting even is okay, had some lessons with that.

Short game is killing me....... I'd say honestly 50 in is the killer. 60 I can take a 3/4 60 and it's in there on the green usually. 90 is the same with the 56, 52 around 105 and the 46 is around 120. If I play those distances things are okay... Still working on getting comfortable with 3/4 and 1/2 shots. It's hard psychologically to do a 1/2 swing on video it's still a 3/4 swing. I might consider getting a 64 for 45- 50 full swing. I might be forced to play 43, 46, 52, 56, 60, 64. I saw that their are some 65's out there but they look like gimmick clubs. ***Says the guy who bought a square strike.

I even played a round with my PGA professional and hung with him off the tee box and hit some really nice iron shots into the greens, missed most but good strikes and execution. Driver was toe to toe with a scratch golf. This is what's frustrating.

I mean I could go on, I have a positive AOA on my driver + 2 but negative on irons and wedges, between -0.5 to -3.0 with an inside out swing path head rotation releasing correctly. Fitted with the proper shafts etc.... At times I come off the ball, but been working hard on that, keeping my trail right leg stiff and hips rotating in fact I had to much so we got that back to 45......... I think some people are better at certain things and I don't want would could be 80's golf to turn into 100's. It's crap.

Ok, that is a lot of stuff to think about.

I follow some simple rules for the short game. Use the lowest lofted club as possible to get the job done. Less loft equals better distance control and usually better directional control. Rule two, practice one shot with one club to death until you own it.

Let me give you an example. I play in several regular foursomes, but one of them has a guy with the absolutely most beautiful swing for full shots and the absolute worst short game I've ever seen. It's perplexing that a guy that can swing the club like Oosthuizen can't make a 15 foot chip when he is literally two feet off the green. Anyway, no one has ever asked me for help on the full swing, but I do get asked fairly often to help people with their short games. This guy came to me for help and the first thing we did was get him to use his one acceptable wedge and accept the concept of working with just one type of shot at a time. The wedge we selected had a nice big bounce and a large/wide sole area. This is a good fit for the softer conditions in Michigan turf. Part of his problem was he was carrying too many wedges that were too different from each other (which is a great idea once you develop some repeatable skills). We made some rules for him to practice and play.

Use this one wedge and only this wedge for every shot inside 20 yards. He was to open this wedge about 2-3 degrees ONLY. Just enough to help it move smoothly through the turf.Use a big muscle type stroke to more or less putt the ball. Some wrist is allowed, but we got him to stop thinking of the swing with all these moving parts.Brush the ground 2 or 3 times in front of the ball before he stepped into the ball to take the swing, making note of where the club was contacting the turf on the downswing. Hit down into the turf, but like he was sweeping the floor and not digging a hole.He was to make his follow through twice the distance of his backswing (the precise amount is not important, but what is important is that he was always accelerating through the ball). We learned very early his number one problem was deceleration into the ball. He did that simple shot for probably 2 months of play and practice. And he pretty much owned that one simple and limited stroke. It was not optimum. Probably half the time there was a better short game shot, but he was not allowed to hit flops and dead-hand flops, and pitch and runs, and one hop and stops. He hit that one simple chip that always ran and released. We wanted him to learn to run the ball to hole and to never think about spinning it to stop or anything like that.

At least 5 strokes off his game in 2 months. His distance control with that one wedge and that one simple swing became very good.

And then we added one new short game shot and he began the process of owning that one.

I think there is some good advice on getting the feel for this one simple shot here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYMFrT_1ne8

Pitching will have to wait for another time. Get a good chip working and then move up to the next level of complexity.

Of course the best possible solution is to get an instructor you trust. An instructor might see something in the first five minutes that could make a big difference and the odds of that happening in a chat on the net are fairly low.

Good Luck

I haven't listed my chipper as a square strike as I got a clone of the square strike called a MAZEL. So ive just listed it as a 45* chipper in my sig.

This really is something i was missing in my short chipping and pitching. i was blading or chunking way too many shots around the green. The tourstriker planemate opened my eyes first and has drastically changed my short game, while the kisner video really hit on some of the same movements and feels i get from the training aid. rotating the chest through the shot is key while the hands move around the body.

...and interestingly, those two same thoughts apply to full swings with all of your clubs. Arms & body in sync, chest keeps turning/right shoulder keeps moving, and hand path traces the arc around!

Yep! This is basically what I was trying to say with my previous post. My chipping/pitching practice is essentially for my full swing. Proper take away, mini pivot, trying to keep everything properly in sync.

+1 here. Play with a guy who uses his putter from roughly 50 yards and in if in the fairway. First few times I laughed hysterically when he pulled putter but after watching his usual success with it I have kind of adopted this approach from maybe 10-15 yards in and have been relatively successful with it. My misses arent nearly as bad as when I would chip/pitch with a wedge.