Manual de la Torre Method

[TheOne85]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1430941067' post='11511619']
[quote name='BeTheBall_' timestamp='1430938888' post='11511359']
[quote name='TheOne85' timestamp='1430937199' post='11511155']
Quick question, when swing the arms and not shoulders, how does that work? Is it about not having tension in shoulders basically?

Is it possible to swing arms without shoulder or more of s feel?
[/quote]

I'm not an expert by any means having simply read the book and this thread a number of times but I believe the distinction needs to be made between 'swinging the arms' and 'swinging the club USING the arms'.
[/quote]

This is correct. The golfer should attempt to keep the entire body tension free. Of course, easier said than done.

BeTheBall has made the important distinction of having the intention to "swing the club" and not the "arms"
[/quote]

Do you mind explaining that a little more? Or maybe some kind of example? I assume this would be along the same lines of throwing a ball at a target, you throw the ball not the arm?

[The Pearl]

[quote name='TheOne85' timestamp='1430947601' post='11512319']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1430941067' post='11511619']
[quote name='BeTheBall_' timestamp='1430938888' post='11511359']
[quote name='TheOne85' timestamp='1430937199' post='11511155']
Quick question, when swing the arms and not shoulders, how does that work? Is it about not having tension in shoulders basically?

Is it possible to swing arms without shoulder or more of s feel?
[/quote]

I'm not an expert by any means having simply read the book and this thread a number of times but I believe the distinction needs to be made between 'swinging the arms' and 'swinging the club USING the arms'.
[/quote]

This is correct. The golfer should attempt to keep the entire body tension free. Of course, easier said than done.

BeTheBall has made the important distinction of having the intention to "swing the club" and not the "arms"
[/quote]

Do you mind explaining that a little more? Or maybe some kind of example? I assume this would be along the same lines of throwing a ball at a target, you throw the ball not the arm?
[/quote]

Yes. Exactly.

[hanknalex]

Nice article on Mr. De La Torre in this week's paper

[url="http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/love-of-teaching-golf-swing-still-drives-manuel-de-la-torre-b99498915z1-303530741.html"]http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/love-of-teaching-golf-swing-still-drives-manuel-de-la-torre-b99498915z1-303530741.html[/url]

I have a lesson scheduled on 5-26 with him.

[vjswing]

[quote name='hanknalex' timestamp='1431624285' post='11559018']
Nice article on Mr. De La Torre in this week's paper

[url="http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/love-of-teaching-golf-swing-still-drives-manuel-de-la-torre-b99498915z1-303530741.html"]http://www.jsonline....-303530741.html[/url]

I have a lesson scheduled on 5-26 with him.
[/quote]
Thanks for the link, and if it's not too much to ask, please share some of your experience following your upcoming lesson with Mr. De La Torre. What an incredible dedication he still has when it comes to teaching, given the recent health difficulties he's been struggling with.

[stuboy]

I haven't bought the book but tried to incorporate some of these ideas into my round today, my full irons from the fairways or tee were the best I've hit for a long time but couldn't get the same feeling for anything from the rough and short game. Anyone had similar issues?

[The Pearl]

[quote name='stuboy' timestamp='1431800121' post='11569642']
I haven't bought the book but tried to incorporate some of these ideas into my round today, my full irons from the fairways or tee were the best I've hit for a long time but couldn't get the same feeling for anything from the rough and short game. Anyone had similar issues?
[/quote]

Perhaps if you could elaborate a little more as to what you were trying to incorporate. Maybe JustSteve will jump in if he is still following along.

[gaz7788]

The problem with tension free is people will associate that with loose. And when it is loose and relax I find that it is too easy to lose control of the club as well as having too many unwanted moving body parts.

[stuboy]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1431830727' post='11571886']
[quote name='stuboy' timestamp='1431800121' post='11569642']
I haven't bought the book but tried to incorporate some of these ideas into my round today, my full irons from the fairways or tee were the best I've hit for a long time but couldn't get the same feeling for anything from the rough and short game. Anyone had similar issues?
[/quote]

Perhaps if you could elaborate a little more as to what you were trying to incorporate. Maybe JustSteve will jump in if he is still following along.
[/quote]

Well I moved the ball to centre of my stance, adjusted to a little more neutral grip. Then I focused on just having really loose wrists and arms, swing back with the hands and then just swing back through with my arms although I barely had any swing thoughts on the downswing. Just thought rhythm, swing back, and then let it come through.
In practice I had found that trying to think of the upper arms swinging the club back on the downswing worked sometimes but easy to let hands take over.

I did find that it was much easier to keep wrists loose it I lagged the club head a little on the takeaway, stopped any conscious wrist c0ck.

[JohnnyNight]

Hi All,

Yeah, when I first started playing again about 8 years ago this is the first book and dvd I bought.

In the end the method is really simple as most likely described by others as I have not read this entire thread.

Backswing is done solely by taking the club back as far as you can with the hands then forward swing is throwing the club towards the target with the arms, that is just to be sure the arms meaning, from the elbow to the shoulder, not the lower arm.

Rhythm and staying lose definitely important.

I still use this method with all uneven lies and in sand traps. Only way to go for me..

[Hammerboy]

[quote name='JohnnyNight ' timestamp='1431878296' post='11573668']
Hi All,

Yeah, when I first started playing again about 8 years ago this is the first book and dvd I bought.

In the end the method is really simple as most likely described by others as I have not read this entire thread.

Backswing is done solely by taking the club back as far as you can with the hands then forward swing is throwing the club towards the target with the arms, that is just to be sure the arms meaning, from the elbow to the shoulder, not the lower arm.

Rhythm and staying lose definitely important.

I still use this method with all uneven lies and in sand traps. Only way to go for me..
[/quote]

I use this method and probably do not even know it.

It is the anti method in many ways.

Very good stuff, it is so simple, how complicated we make it.

[TheOne85]

I have come to realize that the most important thing for me in the arm swing is feeling the weight of the club. If my swing gets a little flat in the backswing, I lose the weight feel and it causes me to yank the club down with my hands. So if I make sure to stay on plane with the hands to right shoulder, it lets me come down almost effortlessly with the arms.

[The Pearl]

[quote name='TheOne85' timestamp='1431902654' post='11575160']
I have come to realize that the most important thing for me in the arm swing is feeling the weight of the club. If my swing gets a little flat in the backswing, I lose the weight feel and it causes me to yank the club down with my hands. So if I make sure to stay on plane with the hands to right shoulder, it lets me come down almost effortlessly with the arms.
[/quote]

This was going to be my reply to Stuboy. It took me a long time to realize that, even with the best intentions, the thought of the swing as an arc always seemed to result in a flat swing for me, therefore, always adding some type of leverage that Manuel preaches against in the book.

[oldschoolrocker]

Good morning,
Would like to pose a couple of questions, non technical in nature, more with regard to end body response results.
1.) I am finding this method clearly easier on the old body, less wear and tear.
2.). Feels like getting in a proper finish position is almost automatic. Weight shifts naturally.
3.). Takes away the "hit" complex for me, allowing more freedom, resulting in not getting the club "stuck."

Questions then, are,

What positive distinct differences do you feel for yourself that can be attributed directly to this method?

[The Pearl]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1432474498' post='11617784']
Good morning,
Would like to pose a couple of questions, non technical in nature, more with regard to end body response results.
1.) I am finding this method clearly easier on the old body, less wear and tear.
2.). Feels like getting in a proper finish position is almost automatic. Weight shifts naturally.
3.). Takes away the "hit" complex for me, allowing more freedom, resulting in not getting the club "stuck."

Questions then, are,

What positive distinct differences do you feel for yourself that can be attributed directly to this method?
[/quote]

I am not sure what exactly you are looking for here. In terms of the method, the biggest gain technically for me has been that thinking about how the club swings on an arc around a center point and has made it it significantly easier for me to hit the inside of the ball and produce a slight draw or mostly straight.

[oldschoolrocker]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Hadn't had my morning caffeine yet. I find this much easier to get to a finish position by the natural swinging motion of the club with respect to other techniques. Also, it has elimated my "getting the club stuck" and the need to get handsy when this happens. In other words the entire sequence feels more synchronized allowing better tempo. My swing has always been tempo driven, at least my good ones, and this seems to be easier to maintain a repeatable tempo.

[jons1]

This method is a continuation of the teachings of ernest jones.

To oversimplify, put the club in the right positions, the body will naturally follow and be in the right positions. Golf is taught almost completely backwards, insisting you manipulate the body into positions.

A string with a weight held in your hand while making a chipping motion is designed to help simulate the feel of actually swinging the clubhead in a harmonious manner.

[oldschoolrocker]

Really enjoying the lack of stress, both physically and mentally, this method is giving me on the course.

[The Pearl]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1432565508' post='11622606']
Really enjoying the lack of stress, both physically and mentally, this method is giving me on the course.
[/quote]

How is your distance with this method?


One piece of advice that Manuel preaches and what his method allows for is if you have a bad shot or a poor hole your focus goes right back to his simple principles. There is no focus on correcting something. Just go back to trying to swing the club toward the target. Yesterday for example, I made just a terrible swing with the driver that resulted in a double bogey. I simply relaxed and focused on swinging the club on the arc and toward the target. I followed the double up to close with 5 straight pars.

[stuboy]

I'm hitting full shots very sweetly with this method, even driver was good mostly last round although slice did rear its ugly head a couple of times. I'm planning on sticking with it.

Struggling with my short game but that is more mental than anything I think

[stuboy]

Another question, how is people's ball flight with this method, I'm getting a fairly high shot recently, not getting any run on the driver. I've not had a chance to film myself though, might I be flipping a little at impact?

[oldschoolrocker]

Not seeing any real difference in distance.

[jons1]

I've heard this method is not that long hitting of a method compared to others.

[juststeve]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1432592658' post='11624524']
I've heard this method is not that long hitting of a method compared to others.
[/quote]

I learned to swing the club from Manny while I was still in college. I still swing the way he taught me in the beginning. When I was young I was very long given the ball and equipment we were using then. I am now 67 years old, a member at three golf clubs, and there is no one at any of them anywhere close to my age that hits it longer. The method Manny teachers poses no limitation on your ability to hit the ball long. That said we all have our physical limitations and once you can't swing the club faster, you have reached your limit.

Steve

[jons1]

http://youtu.be/F-hYlxnB5OM

[thekru]

[quote name='hanknalex' timestamp='1431624285' post='11559018']
Nice article on Mr. De La Torre in this week's paper

[url="http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/love-of-teaching-golf-swing-still-drives-manuel-de-la-torre-b99498915z1-303530741.html"]http://www.jsonline....-303530741.html[/url]

I have a lesson scheduled on 5-26 with him.
[/quote][quote name='hanknalex' timestamp='1431624285' post='11559018']
Nice article on Mr. De La Torre in this week's paper

[url="http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/love-of-teaching-golf-swing-still-drives-manuel-de-la-torre-b99498915z1-303530741.html"]http://www.jsonline....-303530741.html[/url]

I have a lesson scheduled on 5-26 with him.
[/quote]

Well???...Do we get a report?

[pappaf2]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1432702791' post='11633756']
[media=]http://youtu.be/F-hYlxnB5OM[/media]
[/quote]

Awesome! Thanks for finding that and posting it.

[Jersey golfer]

[quote name='thekru' timestamp='1432726469' post='11634296']
[quote name='hanknalex' timestamp='1431624285' post='11559018']
Nice article on Mr. De La Torre in this week's paper

[url="http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/love-of-teaching-golf-swing-still-drives-manuel-de-la-torre-b99498915z1-303530741.html"]http://www.jsonline....-303530741.html[/url]

I have a lesson scheduled on 5-26 with him.
[/quote][quote name='hanknalex' timestamp='1431624285' post='11559018']
Nice article on Mr. De La Torre in this week's paper

[url="http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/love-of-teaching-golf-swing-still-drives-manuel-de-la-torre-b99498915z1-303530741.html"]http://www.jsonline....-303530741.html[/url]

I have a lesson scheduled on 5-26 with him.
[/quote]

Well???...Do we get a report?
[/quote]

I too would like to know how the lesson went!

[loko1902]

hello all, first of all sorry for my poor english.

I'm trying to implement the mdlt method, i bought the book, dvd and john hayes notes....the most difficult part to acquire is really how to start the forward swing with the upper arms....i'm really unable to have the sensation of using the upper arms....i have not the feel....do you have any tip or image to implement it?
By the way, MANY THANKS to THE PEARL who gave me a good tip regarding swinging the clubhead vs the club over the right shoulder, it changes all !!! if you have something similar for the forward swing....it seems that i'm more using the left upper arm than the right as the right is bent...

Many thanks in advance for your help.
Christian from Switzerland

[bdcava]

[quote name='loko1902' timestamp='1434877942' post='11798698']
hello all, first of all sorry for my poor english.

I'm trying to implement the mdlt method, i bought the book, dvd and john hayes notes....the most difficult part to acquire is really how to start the forward swing with the upper arms....i'm really unable to have the sensation of using the upper arms....i have not the feel....do you have any tip or image to implement it?
By the way, MANY THANKS to THE PEARL who gave me a good tip regarding swinging the clubhead vs the club over the right shoulder, it changes all !!! if you have something similar for the forward swing....it seems that i'm more using the left upper arm than the right as the right is bent...

Many thanks in advance for your help.
Christian from Switzerland
[/quote]
What was the backswing tip?

[loko1902]

[quote name='bdcava' timestamp='1434883280' post='11798788']
[quote name='loko1902' timestamp='1434877942' post='11798698']
hello all, first of all sorry for my poor english.

I'm trying to implement the mdlt method, i bought the book, dvd and john hayes notes....the most difficult part to acquire is really how to start the forward swing with the upper arms....i'm really unable to have the sensation of using the upper arms....i have not the feel....do you have any tip or image to implement it?
By the way, MANY THANKS to THE PEARL who gave me a good tip regarding swinging the clubhead vs the club over the right shoulder, it changes all !!! if you have something similar for the forward swing....it seems that i'm more using the left upper arm than the right as the right is bent...

Many thanks in advance for your help.
Christian from Switzerland
[/quote]
What was the backswing tip?
[/quote]
Response from The Pearl :
"[color=#282828]For me, the most crucial aspect of Manuel's principle continues to be this part of the backswing concept; "swing the clubhead in the direction of the right shoulder with both hands." I am sheepish to admit that I never really read this part with precision. I have always read it as "club", not clubhead. Prior, I was trying to visualize the entire club swinging in the direction of the right shoulder which randomly had me taking the club too far outside (on shorter clubs) and inside (on longer clubs). As a result of focusing on swinging the clubhead in the direction of the right shoulder, I am finding it MUCH EASIER, in fact, almost automatic that I am able to naturally transition to using the upper arms in the forward swing WITHOUT consciously trying to make this happen. My own take on this is that by creating the mental picture of only swinging the clubhead in the direction of the right shoulder, the swing is on the proper arc and my brain does not tell the arms or hands to make the necessary adjustment, which we all know is the road to inconsistency."[/color]