No new acquistions...?

[MachineHack]

3 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

I had a bronze Anser 3 for a while. I'm not entirely sure what makes it so different from an Anser or Anser 2. Anser 4 has the short slant neck (I don't know the proper term for that), but the Anser, Anser 2, and Anser 3 all have the plumber's neck, don't they?

 

Are the blade lengths different from heel to toe?

 

Edit: Forgot to add that 38" for a putter is crazy! Was the previous owner a Tyrannosaurus Rex?

the only difference between the anser and anser 3 is no sound slot and alignment line on the a3 (anser has no alignment marks) 

 

a2’s and a4’s are a slight different shape (bumpers are flatter and some profiles are slightttly changed) and yah a4 has the slant neck. Also majority seem to be stainless as compared to the MgBr of the a/a3

 

come to think of it I don’t think I’ve ever seen a MgBr A4 

 

MgBr is a heaps underrated metal for putters. I don’t know if people just associated it with old putters but in my opinion it didn’t fall out of style because it’s not the superior metal

 

it fell out of style because it’s expensive and difficult to machine. Brass rod alone costs me twice what 303 runs for and 303 is like 10x the cost of 1020/30 whatever low carbon steel you want 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

2 hours ago, MachineHack said:

the only difference between the anser and anser 3 is no sound slot and alignment line on the a3 (anser has no alignment marks) 

 

a2’s and a4’s are a slight different shape (bumpers are flatter and some profiles are slightttly changed) and yah a4 has the slant neck. Also majority seem to be stainless as compared to the MgBr of the a/a3

 

come to think of it I don’t think I’ve ever seen a MgBr A4 

 

MgBr is a heaps underrated metal for putters. I don’t know if people just associated it with old putters but in my opinion it didn’t fall out of style because it’s not the superior metal

 

it fell out of style because it’s expensive and difficult to machine. Brass rod alone costs me twice what 303 runs for and 303 is like 10x the cost of 1020/30 whatever low carbon steel you want 

 

Not MgBr, but I have seen some BeCu Anser 4s. Recently on the 'Net, in fact, because I am thinking about getting one😄

 

I've an Anser (90's reissue) that I believe is MgBr and very soft. It has the sound slot, but the Anser 3 I had didn't (which lines up with what you said👍).

 

I don't really get on with plumber's necks, but I'm hanging on to the Anser. Should take it out again soon.

[Fellaheen51]

Here's a picture of several old school Ping putters.  L to R:  029 Anser, SS A2, BeCu A2, A3.  The Anser has a slightly shorter blade length than the others.  Also, the A2's are ever so slightly narrower face to back.  Other differences as already noted.  And for the record, the metal is MnBr (manganese bronze).  

 

I periodically use the Cu A2 just because it's unique and cool.  Although cannot tell a difference in "feels"  between BeCu and MnBr.  I prefer some alignment line assistance on putters.  The Cu A2 has 25 grams of tungsten powder down the shaft to weight it up (~340g).   Would use H.D. lead tape (1" = 2 grams) on the others if they were regular gamers.  Tape on U.S. nickels (5 grams) and test roll on the basement putting carpet until they start feeling right.  Then add that amount of tape or powder.  Although still light by today's standards, not as wispy as before.  

 

Trying to determine head weights without exactitude.  Seemingly there's some reported variance even with exactly the same head.  Sleuthing around, best I can determine (within a range) is:  SS A2 = 305g.  MnBr A3 = 315g.  BeCu A2 = 320g.  Like to know a starting point for adding heft.  

 

Find old Ping putters around with some regularity.  They're plentiful and usually cheap.  Sorta gather them when I find one.  The only one I paid more for was the BeCu, although the listing descriptive was for "brass".   So I got a good deal on it.  Pat Pend to boot.  FWIW.  

 

 

 

[bcstones]

hmm...I'd not heard of stainless steel Ping putters. I have a number of the old Ping's but seem to be the MgBr or BeCu. I'm wondering what the zipcode for the stainless steel models is....

[Fellaheen51]

Sort of depends on how old is old with Pings.  But there are a number of OSP putters in SS.  A2, A4, A5, Zing 2, B6x models, Eye and Eye 2, certain Pals,  Zeros.  Perhaps others that I'm not remembering .  The SS ones I've crossed paths with all had a 85068 zip.  

 

 

[bcstones]

51 minutes ago, Fellaheen51 said:

Sort of depends on how old is old with Pings.  But there are a number of OSP putters in SS.  A2, A4, A5, Zing 2, B6x models, Eye and Eye 2, certain Pals,  Zeros.  Perhaps others that I'm not remembering .  The SS ones I've crossed paths with all had a 85068 zip.  

 

 

ok...so that puts it in the 1973 to 2000 time....according to the list from the  Pro I helped in his shop. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by bcstones

[Robert L.]

My latest acquisition. I remember these putters back in the mid 1990s, back when Golfsmith carried the Harvey Penick line of golf equipment. Recently I've been looking on eBay for Penick clubs, and this putter intrigued me. It's the Lake Austin model, one of three models, along with the Riverside and Red River models. So I went ahead and bought it, and I'll be gaming it this coming Saturday when my son and I go out and play. It's in decent shape, and it putts well in the living room, but we'll see how it does on the course.

[bcstones]

@Robert L. interesting putter...sure miss Golfsmith. I have a putter almost exactly the same - the Skuttle from Trident Golf. I'm pretty sure I have at least one set of Harvey Penick clubs, possibly two. I'm trying to clear out storage & where to best vend the sets I have. Eventually, I hope to get to the single containers of wedges, putters & one irons.

[MachineHack]

8 hours ago, Fellaheen51 said:

 

Trying to determine head weights without exactitude.  Seemingly there's some reported variance even with exactly the same head.  Sleuthing around, best I can determine (within a range) is:  SS A2 = 305g.  MnBr A3 = 315g.  BeCu A2 = 320g.  Like to know a starting point for adding heft.  

 

I’ve never found a significant head weight different between the MnBr and 400 stainless both will be around 299-301

 

From some recent work I’ve done on a few

 

Anser: 299

Asner 3: 299

Anser 4 SS: 301

 

surprisingly Ping pal 2 SS: 301

 

it takes a bit of tungsten to get the weights up, you can see how much I added to ones below to get them up 

I haven’t had a beryllium copper one on the scales yet but I suspect it will be only marginally heavier than the stainless. Material density between the alloys isn’t enough to make a hole big difference 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by MachineHack

[Robert L.]

3 hours ago, bcstones said:

@Robert L. interesting putter...sure miss Golfsmith. I have a putter almost exactly the same - the Skuttle from Trident Golf. I'm pretty sure I have at least one set of Harvey Penick clubs, possibly two. I'm trying to clear out storage & where to best vend the sets I have. Eventually, I hope to get to the single containers of wedges, putters & one irons.

I miss Golfsmith too. I built my first set of irons from Golfsmith components back in the early 90s - Tour Model IV irons, TT Dynamic shafts in R flex, and Tour Wrap grips. I played them all through the 90s and early 2000s until my 15 year long hiatus. I still have them, but they've been retired.

[cold_war_era_golfer]

I had believed the kro flite moniker was indicater of storeline.  But these have pro shafts and carry the top flite logo on the tops of the head.  
my guesstimation on a year is 1957.

 

[cold_war_era_golfer]

I'm guessing these are '58.  If they are all stock Rocket shafts were last seen in Top Flite's in '57.  These are the True Temper Pro Shafts found on the '58 Dynapowereds.  

[bcstones]

23 minutes ago, cold_war_era_golfer said:

I had believed the kro flite moniker was indicater of storeline.  But these have pro shafts and carry the top flite logo on the tops of the head.  
 

Gotta disagree a wee bit about "Kro-Flite", I have a set of Spalding woods w/the crow logo on the insert & the top of the woods say Spalding.....Top-Flite replaced Kro-Flite around 1940, I think. Again, if memory serves me correctly....MacGregor called their Pro-sponsored line, except for the Armour line which was "Professional", called them (Hogan, Demeret, etc) "General till just about the late 30s or ~1940, when all were now called "Professional"....What MacGregor meant by the term "General", I have no idea (got a few thoughts, but who really knows these days)

 

 

[Foozle]

I spotted this MacGregor 2 wood in a small job lot of 4 persimmons. There was no info and the pictures poor but it looked to me like it might be a '50's club so thought it worth the punt.

Now I have it and can look at it close up there is a barely distinguishable toe stamp which says "Custom Made Rec No" and then what looks like a 6 digit serial number. No trace of a crown stamp and an unusual (for MacGregor) battle axe sole plate. It has been reshafted and poorly refinished including cutting the scoring lines through insert screws. There is a faint depression on the back of the neck which I suspect is a crack - probably from reshafting.

I am still inclined to think the head is a '50's block but which model and which year escape me? 

Also curious about the "Custom Made" stamp- I know the MacGregor Custom shop was a busy place but would each Custom club get a unique customer serial number? This might become legible if I strip the head.

Thoughts and opinions welcome!

[Bigarch]

3 hours ago, Foozle said:

I spotted this MacGregor 2 wood in a small job lot of 4 persimmons. There was no info and the pictures poor but it looked to me like it might be a '50's club so thought it worth the punt.

Now I have it and can look at it close up there is a barely distinguishable toe stamp which says "Custom Made Rec No" and then what looks like a 6 digit serial number. No trace of a crown stamp and an unusual (for MacGregor) battle axe sole plate. It has been reshafted and poorly refinished including cutting the scoring lines through insert screws. There is a faint depression on the back of the neck which I suspect is a crack - probably from reshafting.

I am still inclined to think the head is a '50's block but which model and which year escape me? 

Also curious about the "Custom Made" stamp- I know the MacGregor Custom shop was a busy place but would each Custom club get a unique customer serial number? This might become legible if I strip the head.

Thoughts and opinions welcome!

Do my eyes deceive me or is there some writing on the crown?

[Brian1862]

On 9/30/2022 at 4:07 PM, cold_war_era_golfer said:

I'm guessing these are '58.  If they are all stock Rocket shafts were last seen in Top Flite's in '57.  These are the True Temper Pro Shafts found on the '58 Dynapowereds.  

 

I'm a sucker for anything Spalding, so thanks for these.

 

FWIW, my '56 Model 84 woods have the same shafts (mine are "R" flex), exact same logo on the crown, and very similar sole plates, but black/white/black face inserts and black whipping with a single gold/yellow stripe on the mini-ferrule.

 

I'm interested to see the copper/brown whipping on yours. I thought they were always black. Shows what I know 🙂

[Foozle]

11 hours ago, Bigarch said:

Do my eyes deceive me or is there some writing on the crown?

Thanks for pounting that out. Zooming into the picture and under magnification I can see what you are referring to but suspect the writing, if any, may be faint pencil marks from the time of refinishing, certainly not a stamp as I would expect if my '50's age assumption is correct.

In my opinion, the headshape, insert, screw pattern and 8 scoring lines (2 wood) is most similar to a 693 but I have never seen a 693 with that shape of sole plate? I have looked at RobotDoctors picture of his collection in the Powerbilt bag (the ultimate MacGregor reference point!😁) and don't see any MacGregors with this shape of sole plate, only swept back and butterfly but do know MacGregor produced some later models with this battle axe style.

I am wondering if custom shop options included different sole plates and whether custom models, even if production heads like 693, would then omit the normal crown stamp - in this case, if I am correct, Tommy Armour.

This club is proving something of an enigma and curiosity which is something I love about collecting vintage clubs. I know the knowledge is here in this forum to crack the code!

 

[RobotDoctor]

19 hours ago, Foozle said:

I spotted this MacGregor 2 wood in a small job lot of 4 persimmons. There was no info and the pictures poor but it looked to me like it might be a '50's club so thought it worth the punt.

Now I have it and can look at it close up there is a barely distinguishable toe stamp which says "Custom Made Rec No" and then what looks like a 6 digit serial number. No trace of a crown stamp and an unusual (for MacGregor) battle axe sole plate. It has been reshafted and poorly refinished including cutting the scoring lines through insert screws. There is a faint depression on the back of the neck which I suspect is a crack - probably from reshafting.

I am still inclined to think the head is a '50's block but which model and which year escape me? 

Also curious about the "Custom Made" stamp- I know the MacGregor Custom shop was a busy place but would each Custom club get a unique customer serial number? This might become legible if I strip the head.

Thoughts and opinions welcome!

 

My gut tells me the crown stamp is Charley Penna and this is a custom order based on the R32 series of MacGregor Penna woods.  The custom order was most likely due to shaft and grip combination.

[Foozle]

37 minutes ago, RobotDoctor said:

 

My gut tells me the crown stamp is Charley Penna and this is a custom order based on the R32 series of MacGregor Penna woods.  The custom order was most likely due to shaft and grip combination.

Fantastic! Thanks for the insight. 

I have made an immediate dive for my Kaplan book but don't see any reference to R32 model - do you know roughly what year that would date the head to?

Shaft is a modern DG s300 which is a pity as it spoils the originality (and possibly cracked the neck!) but I would be thrilled if I thought the head had been touched, crafted or even influenced by Charley Penna.

[RobotDoctor]

Just now, Foozle said:

Fantastic! Thanks for the insight. 

I have made an immediate dive for my Kaplan book but don't see any reference to R32 model - do you know roughly what year that would date the head to?

Shaft is a modern DG s300 which is a pity as it spoils the originality (and possibly cracked the neck!) but I would be thrilled if I thought the head had been touched, crafted or even influenced by Charley Penna.

I am thinking those were late 50s or even around 1960.  My Kaplan book is in storage until we move into the house.

[Foozle]

17 minutes ago, RobotDoctor said:

I am thinking those were late 50s or even around 1960.  My Kaplan book is in storage until we move into the house.

There is R1 and R2 in '62 and '63 so guess somewhere in that ball park.

Really appreciate your assistance and knowledge. Thanks!

[RobotDoctor]

7 minutes ago, Foozle said:

There is R1 and R2 in '62 and '63 so guess somewhere in that ball park.

Really appreciate your assistance and knowledge. Thanks!

You're welcome! 

[bcstones]

34 minutes ago, Foozle said:

There is R1 and R2 in '62 and '63 so guess somewhere in that ball park.

Really appreciate your assistance and knowledge. Thanks!

I checked Maltby's....in '63 there is a Toney Penna Rocker Sole Woods -  R2W & R1W...also mentions "...rocker sole design with shallow butterfly design." In '62, there is Toney Penna RS2 wood....those are the only mentions in Maltby's...
In the Maltby description it says "(white or gold or red) keysite w/4-screw box pattern...what is a "keysite" & is the screw pattern talking about the insert or the sole plate?

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I've a 1, 3, 4, 5w set of R1Ws, which I am pretty sure have been refinished at some point because they're in very good condition (some swelling on one of the fairway woods). I'll post pictures so you can compare to yours.

 

I posted pictures years ago to see if anyone knew anything about them, but no one knew what date they were then.

 

As you can see from the photos, mine have the red/white keyhole insert.

 

I've played the fairways quite a bit, and the full set maybe once. I thought the driver had a hairline crack in the hosel, so I left it out of the bag, but recently took another look at it and believe it is a line in the poly coating.

 

The 5w definitely ticks the box of "Nice Little Five Wood" for me.

 

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, bcstones said:

I checked Maltby's....in '63 there is a Toney Penna Rocker Sole Woods -  R2W & R1W...also mentions "...rocker sole design with shallow butterfly design." In '62, there is Toney Penna RS2 wood....those are the only mentions in Maltby's...
In the Maltby description it says "(white or gold or red) keysite w/4-screw box pattern...what is a "keysite" & is the screw pattern talking about the insert or the sole plate?

Thanks for checking this; i appreciate the assistance.

NoCatchy has perfectly illustrated the "Keysite" insert and box pattern insert screws. 

[Foozle]

28 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

I've a 1, 3, 4, 5w set of R1Ws, which I am pretty sure have been refinished at some point because they're in very good condition (some swelling on one of the fairway woods). I'll post pictures so you can compare to yours.

 

I posted pictures years ago to see if anyone knew anything about them, but no one knew what date they were then.

 

As you can see from the photos, mine have the red/white keyhole insert.

 

I've played the fairways quite a bit, and the full set maybe once. I thought the driver had a hairline crack in the hosel, so I left it out of the bag, but recently took another look at it and believe it is a line in the poly coating.

 

The 5w definitely ticks the box of "Nice Little Five Wood" for me.

 

Thanks for posting - nice set of woods! 

Similar sole plate to mine but different scoring line pattern, insert and insert screw pattern.

RobotDoctor referenced the R32 model which may account for these differences and, as mine is a custom order, I guess all variables are possible from a stock block?

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

9 minutes ago, Foozle said:

Thanks for checking this; i appreciate the assistance.

NoCatchy has perfectly illustrated the "Keysite" insert and box pattern insert screws. 

 

Yours has a different screw pattern on the insert. I wonder if that was part of the customisation? 

 

Edit: our posts overlapped. Yes, I think the differences are most likely down to yours being a custom model.

Edited October 2, 2022 by No_Catchy_Nickname

[bcstones]

16 minutes ago, Foozle said:

Thanks for checking this; i appreciate the assistance.

NoCatchy has perfectly illustrated the "Keysite" insert and box pattern insert screws. 

Yup he sure did...I always thought that design was a head & shoulder....LOL

Edited October 2, 2022 by bcstones

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

7 hours ago, bcstones said:

Yup he sure did...I always thought that design was a head & shoulder....LOL

 

It looks more like a head and shoulders to me than a keyhole.

[Brian1862]

My newest acquisition isn't a golf club. I hope you'll pardon the diversion.

 

 

These are FootJoy Classics Dry Premieres. The date code says they were made in February 2003, probably at the Brockton, MA plant.

 

FootJoy made the last Classics of this style in 2004, the final Classic Tour models in 2009 (the plastic-soled ones), and closed their last US manufacturing site, at Brockton, that year. 

 

 

I found these on eBay back in August. They were barely worn but needed some work due to age. I've conditioned the leather, replaced the rotted TPU rubber sole sections, and installed new soft spikes.  These have the old style metal threaded sockets.

 

I'm obviously no cobbler, but they came out ok, and I hope I'll get years of use from them. I'm $68 all-in on these - $46 shipped, $8 in sheet styrene rubber, $14 in spikes.

 

These are wonderful to walk in, very stable - flat and wide underfoot, and are comfortable through the round. The leather conforms perfectly to my oddly shaped feet. At almost 20 years old.