Are people that play all the time but never post scores cheating or just uninterested?

[larrybud]

[quote name='Mob' timestamp='1409687267' post='10051351']
We have a guy at our club who plays almost every day. He had $3000 in cart fees this year, but hadn't posted one round for the year. He also is one of those guys who seems to be in contention in club events that are net handicap tournaments. One of the members complained, and the golf committee and head pro came down on him. He was an 8 handicap, left over from last year, and they made him play as a scratch for all club events until he establishes a real handicap. A lot of members were thrilled; except for his usual playing partners who play with him in these events.
[/quote]

I get warm fuzzies when I read things like this.

[vbb]

Yeah, that "never posts his rounds but is always competitive in net club events" guy is definitely a bagger. I know for a fact we have a few of those at my club. I was bored one afternoon and so I looked up a bunch of the guys that had placed high in my flight in some of the club events and I discovered one in particular that is carrying a 14 or 15 handicap but has posted several tournament rounds in the past few months that have been GROSS around 79 or 80. Were any of these rounds on his GHIN handicap? No. But that 88 that he shot just a week ago somehow was. It doesn't get more blatant than that. He should be somewhere in the neighborhood of a 8-10hcp if I had to guess.

Those aren't the guys I'm talking about for this thread though. The guys I'm talking about are the guys that seem to play in line with their stated handicap for most of their rounds, yet never bother to post more than a handful of rounds per month even though I know they're playing at least twice that much.

[Mcw517]

The only round I don’t post is my first round of the year after the winter. It’s usually at some weird Florida course lined with houses and water that I’ll never play again in my life. When I’m home in the Midwest I’ll post about 97% of scores, 3% are scrambles or days when you just say f*** it and get hammed.

[Augster]

3 hours ago, Mcw517 said:

The only round I don’t post is my first round of the year after the winter. It’s usually at some weird Florida course lined with houses and water that I’ll never play again in my life. When I’m home in the Midwest I’ll post about 97% of scores, 3% are scrambles or days when you just say f*** it and get hammed.

You necro’d an 8-year-old post to say you condone cheating your cap in a rules forum. 
 

UBU. 

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, Augster said:

You necro’d an 8-year-old post to say you condone cheating your cap in a rules forum. 

 

Some time ago on this forum it was clearly stated that in the USGA WHS a sheer practice round is not to be posted as one is not actually trying to score but spends time on a golf course striking numerous balls into various locations. Thus it seems that once you declare beforehand you are practicing you are not obligated to post the score. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

Scramble scores are not postable in any case, afaik.

 

The question mark is this statement: 'days when you just say f*** it and get hammed'. Not quite sure what it means but if you decide only mid-round that you are not going to post then I suppose you are not doing the right thing.

[AntLockyer]

This is the England Golf document on the World Handicap System that we all now use (USA included)

 

Q: Do I have to record all scores?

A: Players should submit all singles competition scores and have the ability to pre-register and submit scores from social games played in accordance with the rules of golf. Accuracy of a player’s Handicap Index will be improved the greater the number of scorecards submitted.

 

Doesn't say you need to submit everything.

[Mr. Bean]

16 minutes ago, AntLockyer said:

This is the England Golf document on the World Handicap System that we all now use (USA included)

 

Q: Do I have to record all scores?

A: Players should submit all singles competition scores and have the ability to pre-register and submit scores from social games played in accordance with the rules of golf. Accuracy of a player’s Handicap Index will be improved the greater the number of scorecards submitted.

 

Doesn't say you need to submit everything.

 

The USGA has different features in their WHS, it is not the same as you have in England.

[AntLockyer]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

The USGA has different features in their WHS, it is not the same as you have in England.

That's odd, I assumed the world in WHS meant we'd all do the same 🙂

[Mr. Bean]

1 minute ago, AntLockyer said:

That's odd, I assumed the world in WHS meant we'd all do the same 🙂

 

Unfortunately not. There are many different versions of WHS. Many national organizations did not accept to give up their traditional systems. Even Europe is not homogenous.

[jomatty]

On 9/3/2014 at 8:26 AM, mark m said:

[quote name='Veng' timestamp='1409758706' post='10056563']
[quote name='mark m' timestamp='1409706274' post='10053283']
[quote name='Veng' timestamp='1409686219' post='10051247']
Declaring it to be a casuaul round, you are correct there's not. But USGA finds practice rounds, i.e. playing with two balls, etc, perfectly acceptable. You can not "convert" during a round of course.
[/quote]

Hi Veng,

They do not consider repeatedly playing more than one ball to be "perfectly acceptable." It is unlikely that someone could be warned for this. We have had one guy in 20 years who was adjusted because he was doing this and winning way more than his fair share in tournaments. It is unusual. See Section 8-4:

[url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-08/"]http://www.usga.org/...Manual/Rule-08/[/url]

[color=#000000][size=3][b](iv) Player Manipulates Round[/b]
The [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i] must adjust or withdraw the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapIndex"]Handicap Index[/url][/i] of a player who manipulates scores. (See Section [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14385#8-4"]8-4f[/url].) Examples of manipulating scores include the following:[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](a) Posting erroneous information to the scoring record;[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](b) Stopping play after 6 holes to avoid posting scores;[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3][b]© Repeatedly playing more than one ball to avoid posting scores;[/b][/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](d) Not adjusting hole scores under Section [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14377"]4[/url];[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](e) Deliberately reporting more or fewer strokes than actually scored;[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](f) Deliberately taking extra strokes to inflate a score.[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](g) Not observing either or both of the two basic premises that underlie the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#USGAHandicap%20System"]USGA Handicap System[/url] [/i](see Section [url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-01/#1-1"]1-1[/url])[/size][/color]
[/quote]

Only for purposes of preventing you from posting scores to manipulate your cap. For example if you're posting 4 scores a week, there's nothing wrong with playing practice rounds.
[/quote]

I would never say there was "nothing wrong with it" on a public forum because other people reading about the rules and their responsibilities could be misled. People should know what the rules actually say.

This issue would have to be looked at on a case by case basis to decide whether manipulation was occuring. You also have to factor in the effect it could have on others. If a club says it's OK for one player who is legit to not post a portion of his rounds because these are "practice rounds" - where he plays 2 balls or whatever - then others who are manipulators may claim the same when they play. Off to a great start on a round? Start playing 2 balls on #6 and then don't post the score. Claim "this was a practice round" after a great score on the last day before a new revision and an upcoming big $ tournament. And so on.

One score can make a difference. Sometimes it isn't what is entered, it is the good 20th score that gets bumped out. For players who are playing and posting a lot of scores (like in your example) I would personally be OK with it under the following circumstances. The handicap was considered accurate by the HC, and he/she limited these types of rounds to less than 5% of his rounds played. But again - that is just my opinion and not in any way official. Do so at your own risk.

Last: some clubs have required the return of scorecards for non-tournament rounds played because of issues related to not posting and sandbagging. (Even though the USGA says not to require the return of scores in "casual rounds". Not posting and/or not adjusting scores properly can be a big problem.) Other clubs cross check the tee sheet and posted scores for the day to ensure scores are posted. Here is Section 8-3b on penalty scores:

[color=#000000][size=3]b. Penalty Scores for Failure to Post[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]If a player fails to post an acceptable score as soon as practical after completion of the round, the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i] has three options:[/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]1) Post the actual score made by the player;[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]2) Post a [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#penaltyScore"]penalty score[/url]equal to the lowest/highest [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapDifferential"]Handicap Differential[/url] [/i]in the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#scoringrecord"]scoring record[/url];[/i][/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]3) Post the actual score and a [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#penaltyScore"]penalty score[/url][/i][/size][/color]

[b][color=#000000][size=3]The [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i] is not required to notify the player prior to posting a penalty score.[/size][/color][/b]

[color=#000000][size=3]ALSO:[/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]5-2a/3. Requiring the Return of Scorecards for Handicap Purposes[/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]Q: May a Handicap Committee require the returning of scorecards from players in order for a score to be posted?[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]A: No. However, scorecards may be requested periodically if the Handicap Committee wishes to sample the accuracy with which players are adjusting scores. In any case, the club must not take punitive action regarding the scoring record or the Handicap Index if a scorecard does not accompany a score. [/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]5-2a/4. Requiring the Return of Scorecards by a Player Whose Handicap Index has been Withdrawn or Modified [/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]Q: If a player's Handicap Index has been withdrawn or modified by the player's Handicap Committee, and the player is allowed to get a new Handicap Index, may the Handicap Committee require the return of that player's scorecards?[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]A: Yes, the club Handicap Committee may request the return of scorecards for a probational period from a player who has had a Handicap Index withdrawn or modified. [/size][/color]

Whenever I hear this debated it’s seems like the official answer would be that there is never a situation in which you can play two balls, drop balls to hit extra shots on things you are working on, and do all of the other things that all professional golfers do to improve.  While they obviously are not keeping a handicap it illustrates why these practice rounds are so important, rounds that all amateurs would seemingly be unable to play.
Every so often I will walk 9 holes or play a round with my wife, knowing it is a practice round.  I play two balls off every tee and hit numerous shots from the areas that I need to improve on and that are difficult to practice on the range.  There is no score kept or entered.  This may be technically against the rules but I sleep just fine knowing that I am not manipulating the handicap system in any way.  Playing this way is some of my most valuable practice time.  Saying that amateurs are not allowed to practice in the same way the pros play most practice rounds just doesn’t make sense to me.  I only do this a handful of times a year, but they are way too valuable for me to give them up, and it doesn’t make sense to take such a valuable tool towards getting better away from a player.

Edited March 8, 2022 by jomatty

[Mr. Bean]

8 minutes ago, jomatty said:

Every so often I will walk 9 holes or play a round with my wife, knowing it is a practice round.  I play two balls off every tee and hit numerous shots from the areas that I need to improve on and that are difficult to practice on the range.  There is no score kept or entered.  This may be technically against the rules but I sleep just fine knowing that I am not manipulating the handicap system in any way.  

 

I cannot see why it would be. The WHS says that the player is obligated to try to play their best to achieve a representative score. How can you do it if you do not even try?

 

If an organization would say that you must post scores for such practice rounds that organization is living on another planet. Practicing is practicing while scoring is scoring. You do not count points in tennis when you are warming up with your opponent. Why on earth should you do it in golf??

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

Solo round, groovin' with my earbuds in, and walking a quick 9.  I soon walk up behind a group of 4 who are playing quickly yeah, but not as quick as one douchebag (that's me) walking, so I start having a little fun putting a few balls down and practicing/repeating a few shots...you know, can I turn this little ol' chip into an effective bump-n-run if I use a different wedge?  Can I hole out quicker if I actually attack the pin, or am I better off playing it safe?  Does my choice of ball *really* affect how far my drives go?

 

Playing two balls immediately disqualifies me from tracking my score...even if I only count shots made with, say, my white ball and use a yellow or green one for all of my alternate shots.

[denkea]

45 minutes ago, HappyGilmoresBoots said:

Solo round, groovin' with my earbuds in, and walking a quick 9.  I soon walk up behind a group of 4 who are playing quickly yeah, but not as quick as one douchebag (that's me) walking, so I start having a little fun putting a few balls down and practicing/repeating a few shots...you know, can I turn this little ol' chip into an effective bump-n-run if I use a different wedge?  Can I hole out quicker if I actually attack the pin, or am I better off playing it safe?  Does my choice of ball *really* affect how far my drives go?

 

Playing two balls immediately disqualifies me from tracking my score...even if I only count shots made with, say, my white ball and use a yellow or green one for all of my alternate shots.

I do believe that your 'solo' round prohibits you from posting a score anyway.  

[Mr. Bean]

55 minutes ago, HappyGilmoresBoots said:

Solo round, groovin' with my earbuds in, and walking a quick 9.  I soon walk up behind a group of 4 who are playing quickly yeah, but not as quick as one douchebag (that's me) walking, so I start having a little fun putting a few balls down and practicing/repeating a few shots...you know, can I turn this little ol' chip into an effective bump-n-run if I use a different wedge?  Can I hole out quicker if I actually attack the pin, or am I better off playing it safe?  Does my choice of ball *really* affect how far my drives go?

 

Playing two balls immediately disqualifies me from tracking my score...even if I only count shots made with, say, my white ball and use a yellow or green one for all of my alternate shots.

 

Technically that is not correct. If you have a score with a ball in play on every hole then you do have a score to post. Then you add suitable penalties for S&D, wrong place and wrong ball and there you are!

 

How much sense would that make is another story...

[Newby]

The GB&I manual has a clause: 2.1a(iii) Registering Intent. The USGA manual does not.

I had understood that this was to be a fundamental. Did the USGA change their mind or have I missed it?

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, Newby said:

The GB&I manual has a clause: 2.1a(iii) Registering Intent. The USGA manual does not.

I had understood that this was to be a fundamental. Did the USGA change their mind or have I missed it?

 

If I understand that registering intent correctly USGA has a tradition all scores must be posted 'no matter what'. England and Finland amongst (most?) other European countries have maintained the option to choose whether a score is to be posted or not. I like that much better but I also understand the US view. Then again, it is the responsibility of a player to keep their handicap at a correct level so the means should be irrelevant.

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[davep043]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

If I understand that registering intent correctly USGA has a tradition all scores must be posted 'no matter what'

This is the way its been viewed in the US, from my experience.  As someone involved with Handicap Committee work, I'd much prefer something more like the European system, with all competition rounds posted (which formats to post is a separate issue), and pre-registration for posting of casual rounds.  It would make administration much easier.  Now, when reviewing playing records v. posting records, we have to assume every round satisfied the posting requirements.  There's no good way to separate practice and casual rounds from those where the player is really trying to score.  I've said many times that I believe we'll see more changes to the WHS in the future, with procedures getting closer to uniform around the world.  I hope the USGA moves us in this direction.

[bobfoster]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

This is the way its been viewed in the US, from my experience.  As someone involved with Handicap Committee work, I'd much prefer something more like the European system, with all competition rounds posted (which formats to post is a separate issue), and pre-registration for posting of casual rounds.  It would make administration much easier.  Now, when reviewing playing records v. posting records, we have to assume every round satisfied the posting requirements.  There's no good way to separate practice and casual rounds from those where the player is really trying to score.  I've said many times that I believe we'll see more changes to the WHS in the future, with procedures getting closer to uniform around the world.  I hope the USGA moves us in this direction.

I hope so too - makes a lot more sense. It been a few years since I've bothered to keep a handicap - no real need to (used to be pretty competitive and play a lot of tourneys, in fact even thought about giving Q-School a shot a couple times, but at this point golf is just casual and fun). 

 

When I was doing it, it was always "every round played". But there are a lot of gray areas. When I was playing a lot, I usually knew a few course managers/starters that would let me go out alone on slow afternoons. Deliberately to practice, because there are some things that you simply can't practice on a range. 

 

Read something years ago about Tiger. When he was young, he'd do this exercise where he'd toss buckets of balls in some absurd places - into shallow creeks, or into dense rough, in places that required ridiculous stances, etc. Get into trouble as bad as he could find on purpose. So during a tournament, when an announcer was saying "look at that, no one's ever practiced that shot", and Tiger somehow miraculously escaped - it was often because he actually had "practiced that shot". 

 

Point is, I'd play some holes hitting often multiple balls with each shot. Worked out different kinds of new shots. Practiced getting out of trouble. I ignored my usual course management approach - I usually am pretty good about calculating the risk/reward for any given shot (minimizes blow-up holes), but during these rounds I'd take high risks on purpose (you only truly know your limits when you try to exceed them).

 

So then, I never entered these rounds, because it would have felt like massively cheating - almost the definition of sandbagging (except the intent wasn't there - scores - when I even kept them during rounds like this - were often really bad, but not bad on purpose, bad because I was just experimenting on all sorts of things). In truth, these were just the equivalent of range sessions - just on an actual course. I did not need to enter these because they weren't played "according to the rules of golf". Except it can get a little blurry because some holes actually were played accordingly.

 

When I had a handicap, I wanted a real handicap. Never tried to game the system in either direction, either to get a vanity hcp, or to sandbag (which IMO is much worse - vanity handicaps only hurt the idiots that do them, sandbagging gives an unfair advantage). But the USGA RoG have no definition of what a "practice round" is. 

 

I think the European system makes a lot more sense. Competition rounds have to be posted. All other rounds you choose (before the round starts) whether it will be a posted round or not (no changing halfway through). It not only make things more flexible and less ambiguous, it also (as you say) makes the lives of Handicap Committees a lot easier.

 

The underlying reasons for having a handicap system in the first place to give golfers a decent idea of how they'll play on any particular day and any particular course, to track improvement over time, and to equalize golfers of different levels in tournaments and even friendly betting in foursomes. IMO, the European system not only does not damage those fundamental purposes, it may actually produce greater accuracy in the results. 

[Shilgy]

Someone that wants to game the system can readily do so either way.  In the US they post crap scores…across the pond they declare they want to post a round played with the wife or buddy with no bets on the line.  Oops….just didn’t have it today.🤬

[Augster]

10 hours ago, HappyGilmoresBoots said:

Solo round, groovin' with my earbuds in, and walking a quick 9.  I soon walk up behind a group of 4 who are playing quickly yeah, but not as quick as one douchebag (that's me) walking, so I start having a little fun putting a few balls down and practicing/repeating a few shots...you know, can I turn this little ol' chip into an effective bump-n-run if I use a different wedge?  Can I hole out quicker if I actually attack the pin, or am I better off playing it safe?  Does my choice of ball *really* affect how far my drives go?

 

Playing two balls immediately disqualifies me from tracking my score...even if I only count shots made with, say, my white ball and use a yellow or green one for all of my alternate shots.

You can’t post solo scores anyway. Practice as much as you’d like. 
 

As everyone can see, and should come to the same conclusion, in the WHS the only acceptable scores SHOULD be attested rounds. Whether that is you and your buddies playing for a few bucks, attest at the end. Whether you’re playing a pseudo-comp with pride on the line, attest at the end. Tournies and qualifiers, obvious attestation. 
 

I am sure this is the direction the WHS will eventually go. It’ll get rid of all the “I never play a tournament round” BS. You’re index will only be made up of scores that were attested. Whether they are tourney rounds or casual rounds. 
 

In it’s current form, in the US, going out to hit multiple balls by yourself is fine. You don’t post those anyway. But going out to hit multiple balls and practice while playing with your wife is certainly frowned upon. You should be trying to score, or leave her at home. It’s absurd. 
 

Eventually it’ll all be attested scores. When Jim takes $2 off of Bill in their Wednesday Nassau, Bill will be happy to attest Jim’s score. 
 

It’s baby steps. I’m amazed people still think you are supposed to post solo scores. That’s been changed for quite a while. 
 

 

[Hawkeye77]

18 hours ago, Augster said:

You necro’d an 8-year-old post to say you condone cheating your cap in a rules forum. 
 

UBU. 

Hey now, he may be "hammed"!

[Newby]

52 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Someone that wants to game the system can readily do so either way.  In the US they post crap scores…across the pond they declare they want to post a round played with the wife or buddy with no bets on the line.  Oops….just didn’t have it today.🤬

Not quite. The player's marker has to be someone approved by the Committee. Usually a fellow club member who has a 'reliable' handicap. Remember in the UK committees are more formally organised (even municipals).

Edited March 8, 2022 by Newby

[Mr. Bean]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Someone that wants to game the system can readily do so either way. 

 

Sure, if one has a mentality of a cheater. The real question is, should the system or the players be built to avoid cheating. 

[Mr. Bean]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Someone that wants to game the system can readily do so either way.  In the US they post crap scores…across the pond they declare they want to post a round played with the wife or buddy with no bets on the line.  Oops….just didn’t have it today.🤬

 

I do not believe bets will make you play any better or worse, unless you are betting amounts you cannot afford to pay. But that would be utterly stupid, wouldn't it?

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[BIG STU]

23 hours ago, HappyGilmoresBoots said:

Solo round, groovin' with my earbuds in, and walking a quick 9.  I soon walk up behind a group of 4 who are playing quickly yeah, but not as quick as one douchebag (that's me) walking, so I start having a little fun putting a few balls down and practicing/repeating a few shots...you know, can I turn this little ol' chip into an effective bump-n-run if I use a different wedge?  Can I hole out quicker if I actually attack the pin, or am I better off playing it safe?  Does my choice of ball *really* affect how far my drives go?

 

Playing two balls immediately disqualifies me from tracking my score...even if I only count shots made with, say, my white ball and use a yellow or green one for all of my alternate shots.

I basically do the same thing in practice rounds myself. And I really think it helps me more than range time as far as on my overall game. I also have a contingent of fellow old fart members that are oblivious to other members and do not care since they are only playing 9 holes. Will jack around and do not even think others are on the course. Gives me time to hit different shots and experiment. The way our course sets up and I am not able to walk now so I ride gives me opportunity to skip around or just go around them and then go back to the hole I skipped if I want to. But my practice mode is exactly like yours

Now I know the subject of the original post but for me it is a moot point. I do not play leagues or play stipulated events anymore. I do not keep an official GHIN handicap. But I have absolutely no problem if someone keeps a stipulated handicap and does as you do. After all practice is practice. I have absolutely with anyone posting scores when ever they want. What I have a problem with is those like in our leagues posting like a 15 or 16 handicap and then the same bunch shoots anywhere from 8 to 10 under in the weekly shootout. Another reason I do not keep a stipulated handicap is also ethics to me. I play non conforming equipment (see my signature) and I feel in the spirit and rules of the game and system it would not be ethical for me to post. But then again I play the equipment I play out of choice. 

[SNIPERBBB]

Nothing around here is based of USGA handicaps so unless you want to play in state qualifiers or personal tracking, theres no need.

[davep043]

15 hours ago, Augster said:

As everyone can see, and should come to the same conclusion, in the WHS the only acceptable scores SHOULD be attested rounds. Whether that is you and your buddies playing for a few bucks, attest at the end. Whether you’re playing a pseudo-comp with pride on the line, attest at the end. Tournies and qualifiers, obvious attestation. 
 

I am sure this is the direction the WHS will eventually go. It’ll get rid of all the “I never play a tournament round” BS. You’re index will only be made up of scores that were attested. Whether they are tourney rounds or casual rounds. 

Obviously I hope you're right.  However, "everyone" will not come to this conclusion.  I've read too many people who are outraged by the very idea of attestation, claiming that it will never work, its impossible for public course players, that "everyone" will stop paying for handicaps, etc.  There's no question that such a change will inspire opposition, will come with some difficulties, and will be resisted by many.  Some people may indeed choose not to keep a handicap.  That's life, I still think its the best way to go.

[Shilgy]

10 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I do not believe bets will make you play any better or worse, unless you are betting amounts you cannot afford to pay. But that would be utterly stupid, wouldn't it?

 

I meant that some seem to play well in a club event or money game….even if small stakes but raise their handicap posting higher scores in a Sunday game with the wife or another couple.  Some will argue it will just be one of the 12 non counting scores but it can also eliminate a low score coming off your score history.

[Hickory4ever]

What is really apparent is how different Golf handicapping is viewed in different parts of the world. The whole purpose of handicapping is for an accurate assessment of skill level to allow players of different skill levels to play each other and any manipulation whether deliberate or innocent reduces the accuracy. 
 

For those that intend to play competitively where handicaps are utilized, you should report your scores by the rules of your national association. I personally like the UK system better, but live in Canada and so follow Canadian rules. 
 

Unfortunately, the human factor will always impact the accuracy of the numbers. The result is people gaming the system.

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Nothing around here is based of USGA handicaps so unless you want to play in state qualifiers or personal tracking, theres no need.

Around my place the leagues are ran by people in the league and the course has absolutely nothing to do with league play. They do have the GHIN system for all members at no extra cost. I have no use for it for me because I no longer play stipulated events or league play. Also like I stated for me it is a matter of ethics because I do play non approved equipment.

The other little groups I play in are informal like maybe a $2 team match maybe a $2 Nassau and $1 birdies with a $20 cap total. Everyone in those groups knows each others game and we make the matches accordingly. In those groups no one gives two rips either what equipment someone plays either

As for the handicap system itself I have never had any problem with it on face value if one does it with honesty and integrity like it was designed for in the first place.