Blade users thread (NO DEBATING CLUBHEADS! NO Buy Sell Trade!)

[Christen_The_Sloop]

I'll have to console myself with the Mac Pro82s. If the long and middle irons are similar and they have redesigned the short irons they will be worth every penny.

[NRJyzr]

For years, I thought there was something "off" with my set of Muirfields.  Then I discovered Jack preferred more offset than whats seen on many pros' irons.  The Watson Grind Golden Rams certainly don't have much, as one example.

 

This game we play is loaded with personal preference.  🤔😮🙂

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

12 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

For years, I thought there was something "off" with my set of Muirfields.  Then I discovered Jack preferred more offset than whats seen on many pros' irons.  The Watson Grind Golden Rams certainly don't have much, as one example.

 

This game we play is loaded with personal preference.  🤔😮🙂

 

 

Do you have a link or source for that bit about Jack preferring more offset? I'm not disagreeing, quite the opposite in fact, but I'd like to read about his preferences.

 

I know he didn't like a long blade length because it slowed down he head even more when he hit fat. But I don't think I've read about what sort of offset he liked.

 

That he liked offset seems more than likely, because, as you say, Mac designs with his influence all seem to have some. My Mac 20ths and Muirfield both have a noticeable degree of offset, but not to the point of it being off-putting for me.

 

Now, I've heard on here that Curtis Strange was another pro who liked a far amount of offset. And I've a Tom Kite signature 60* Wilson wedge from 1985 that got a hefty amount of offset. If that was designed to follow his preferences, it means he's another fan of offset.

[Nard_S]

17 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

I'd like to read about his preferences.

What I've read is that his iron heads were rather standard but his builder used dowels on both ends and he put a significant amount of lead in the handle dowel, around 30 grams (plus leather grips) and may have used added lead in tip too. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

6 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

What I've read is that his iron heads were rather standard but his builder used dowels on both ends and he put a significant amount of lead in the handle dowel, around 30 grams (plus leather grips) and may have used added lead in tip too. 

]Ah, yes, I had heard about the counterweighting and dowels, though I heard he had dowels in the tip end and counterweighted the butt with pennies. Didn't realise it was as much as 30g. That's about 6 swing weight points, isn't it (I've been told 5g on the butt end  reduces the SW by about one point).

[DeNinny]

24 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

Do you have a link or source for that bit about Jack preferring more offset? I'm not disagreeing, quite the opposite in fact, but I'd like to read about his preferences.

 

I know he didn't like a long blade length because it slowed down he head even more when he hit fat. But I don't think I've read about what sort of offset he liked.

 

That he liked offset seems more than likely, because, as you say, Mac designs with his influence all seem to have some. My Mac 20ths and Muirfield both have a noticeable degree of offset, but not to the point of it being off-putting for me.

 

Now, I've heard on here that Curtis Strange was another pro who liked a far amount of offset. And I've a Tom Kite signature 60* Wilson wedge from 1985 that got a hefty amount of offset. If that was designed to follow his preferences, it means he's another fan of offset.

As long as the clubface is relatively square to the clubhead path coming into impact, offset isn't going to change anything much relative to the lack or less of it.  To me it's mostly a just a visual preference, and this pic illustrates it well.  Looking down you can see it, and if you rely on using the relative positions of how the shaft and the clubface leading edge literally look and are positioned relative to the ball, then it's going to matter if it changes from club to club.

 

Personally I'd just like it to be consistent throughout the set, like Jack, but probably not as much as he likes overall.  But then I nitpick because even my BBs have a progressive offset with the PW having the highest and so it's not a deal breaker.

[DeNinny]

1 hour ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

I'll have to console myself with the Mac Pro82s. If the long and middle irons are similar and they have redesigned the short irons they will be worth every penny.

Yeah I can see the changing offset throughout the set.  The "kink" in the hosel is more apparent going from longer to shorter irons.

 

Do you know the steel that they used in these?  Assuming the Miura S20C steel is superior, that also makes them worth it!

[Nard_S]

38 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

]Ah, yes, I had heard about the counterweighting and dowels, though I heard he had dowels in the tip end and counterweighted the butt with pennies. Didn't realise it was as much as 30g. That's about 6 swing weight points, isn't it (I've been told 5g on the butt end  reduces the SW by about one point).

I've messed around with by using a 10g weight on a driver. My titleists have 67g grips. The scale may say SW changed by 1 or 2 or 3 points but in the practical it does not really change it at the hands that much. There's fitters who hate this but I like a bit of CW on the handle. My stock setup is 58g grip with 4 staggered wraps so I net 12g over stock setup.

[boggyman]

1 hour ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

I'll have to console myself with the Mac Pro82s. If the long and middle irons are similar and they have redesigned the short irons they will be worth every penny.

Those are slick!!

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

Do you have a link or source for that bit about Jack preferring more offset? I'm not disagreeing, quite the opposite in fact, but I'd like to read about his preferences.

 

I know he didn't like a long blade length because it slowed down he head even more when he hit fat. But I don't think I've read about what sort of offset he liked.

 

That he liked offset seems more than likely, because, as you say, Mac designs with his influence all seem to have some. My Mac 20ths and Muirfield both have a noticeable degree of offset, but not to the point of it being off-putting for me.

 

Now, I've heard on here that Curtis Strange was another pro who liked a far amount of offset. And I've a Tom Kite signature 60* Wilson wedge from 1985 that got a hefty amount of offset. If that was designed to follow his preferences, it means he's another fan of offset.

 

I'm afraid I don't have a link.  I'd read something along the way, but don't remember the source.  It could be included in the Clay Long info that was shared in the Classic folders, but I can't say for certain.

[DeNinny]

Speaking of dowels...is there anyone in this thread that has them in their current sets?  I am curious how and why you like it.  (And I'm too cheap to run an experiment and have them installed.)

[ewaldbeukes]

1 minute ago, DeNinny said:

Speaking of dowels...is there anyone in this thread that has them in their current sets?  I am curious how and why you like it.  (And I'm too cheap to run an experiment and have them installed.)

Also keen to know. I am putting foam inserts down the shafts for vibration but have heard a dowel epoxied in the hosel area is great to make a blade feel even more solid! Want to experiment on my MP5s

[NRJyzr]

Brother Nard has done the dowel process relatively recently.  🙂

 

[lefthack]

Just now, NRJyzr said:

Brother Nard has done the dowel process relatively recently.  🙂

 

 

Enquiring minds want to know. How long of a dowel? Snug fit and epoxied? Based on swing weight? Hardwood or pine?

[Nard_S]

3 minutes ago, DeNinny said:

Speaking of dowels...is there anyone in this thread that has them in their current sets?  I am curious how and why you like it.  (And I'm too cheap to run an experiment and have them installed.)

Titleist 681 come stock with dowels. I built a set of Miura made Maruman's with 2" hickory dowels that I machined myself and will use dowels on every build in large part to what I think they bring to the 681's. Had to repair a #6i on those and it came out flawless. Not sure they do a whole lot for Miura's because they're pretty deep and dark to start with and honestly have only hit that one set about a dozen times. But dowels dampen and deepen the impact. They also seem to stiffen the tip a tiny bit. They will bump the SW a point too. I'm a fan.

 

Hickory is the wood. It is by far the densest available. Hickory is not easy to find retail. I bought it in 6' lengths from a mill online. I do precision turned products for a living. I ran them on my old NC and matched taper, diameter to within .001" of desired specs. It's important that there's an airway via slot or thru hole. I did both, one for air and one to compress  a better fit and even left a counter bore for any weight that might be added. Also, shafts vary in ID an innsy bit and parallel tip is entire different animal. So it's rather involved and I can see why many go "ah, never mind".

 

I'm going to make more later this Spring, I'll post on them with coming builds.

[DeNinny]

30 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Titleist 681 come stock with dowels. I built a set of Miura made Maruman's with 2" hickory dowels that I machined myself and will use dowels on every build in large part to what I think they bring to the 681's. Had to repair a #6i on those and it came out flawless. Not sure they do a whole lot for Miura's because they're pretty deep and dark to start with and honestly have only hit that one set about a dozen times. But dowels dampen and deepen the impact. They also seem to stiffen the tip a tiny bit. They will bump the SW a point too. I'm a fan.

 

Hickory is the wood. It is by far the densest available. Hickory is not easy to find retail. I bought it in 6' lengths from a mill online. I do precision turned products for a living. I ran them on my old NC and matched taper, diameter to within .001" of desired specs. It's important that there's an airway via slot or thru hole. I did both, one for air and one to compress  a better fit and even left a counter bore for any weight that might be added. Also, shafts vary in ID an innsy bit and parallel tip is entire different animal. So it's rather involved and I can see why many go "ah, never mind".

 

I'm going to make more later this Spring, I'll post on them with coming builds.

Thanks a bunch here, brother @Nard_S!  Yeah with my BBs you put me back into "an, never mind" category again.  That said, I'm going to ask my fitter about it as a potential project and maybe do if I wanna replace shafts or ferrules.  Since I have two BB sets I could do it to one of them.  I could see it affecting feel/feedback and SW for sure.

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Also keen to know. I am putting foam inserts down the shafts for vibration but have heard a dowel epoxied in the hosel area is great to make a blade feel even more solid! Want to experiment on my MP5s

If I were to do it my garage and not in a full shop. Buy a $30 caliper to measure things, buy hickory stock on line in 3/8". have a decent drill mounted in a decent vise. Get sandpaper and sand away a taper that's roughly a .004" bigger. Half slot it with a hacksaw. With a square file, put a notch longitudinally down dowel for air bypass. Epoxy in tip, punch it in. If you are not assembling to head immediate, test for air bypass, if fail, poke a thru with a 1/8"drill. Allow room for any added weights.

[Yoshifan151]

1 hour ago, Nard_S said:

Titleist 681 come stock with dowels.

The 681 Ts also have the dowels correct? I have a set of those and might throw some BB&F ferrules on them, wondering if removing the heads will compromise the dowels (from heating the epoxy), your thoughts?

[DeNinny]

4 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

If I were to do it my garage and not in a full shop. Buy a $30 caliper to measure things, buy hickory stock on line in 3/8". have a decent drill mounted in a decent vise. Get sandpaper and sand away a taper that's roughly a .004" bigger. Half slot it with a hacksaw. With a square file, put a notch longitudinally down dowel for air bypass. Epoxy in tip, punch it in. If you are not assembling to head immediate, test for air bypass, if fail, poke a thru with a 1/8"drill. Allow room for any added weights.

It's interesting that air bypass is "a thing".  It says a lot that there is enough volume change in the hosel area to change the local air pressure.  It means impact is temporarily deforming stuff enough to matter!

 

Do you have any experience and can you elaborate on what happens if you don't install an air bypass?  (LOL maybe even a pic of the damage?)

[Nard_S]

15 minutes ago, Yoshifan151 said:

The 681 Ts also have the dowels correct? I have a set of those and might throw some BB&F ferrules on them, wondering if removing the heads will compromise the dowels (from heating the epoxy), your thoughts?

Yes from the factory they do.

I removed  heads with dowels in there. It has no effect. Didn't take a lot of heat to do. I always worry about too much heat on the chrome.

[Nard_S]

14 minutes ago, DeNinny said:

It's interesting that air bypass is "a thing".  It says a lot that there is enough volume change in the hosel area to change the local air pressure.  It means impact is temporarily deforming stuff enough to matter!

 

Do you have any experience and can you elaborate on what happens if you don't install an air bypass?  (LOL maybe even a pic of the damage?)

You cannot assemble the head to shaft without it. It becomes a piston and things won't seat properly. 

[Yoshifan151]

1 minute ago, Nard_S said:

Yes from the factory they do.

I removed  heads with dowels in there. It has no effect. Didn't take a lot of heat to do. I always worry about too much heat on the chrome.

Good to know, thanks. Also speaking of chrome, I recall certain sets of 681 had crappy chrome applications from the factory, do you know if the Ts are safe from that? 

[Nard_S]

4 minutes ago, Yoshifan151 said:

Good to know, thanks. Also speaking of chrome, I recall certain sets of 681 had crappy chrome applications from the factory, do you know if the Ts are safe from that? 

I've heard this on forums here and mine are Hoffman made but the chrome has held up really nice. The patina on the impact zone is worn from a gazillion range balls but the heads look great. I believe that issue was resolved before the T stamp run. I also have NIB T's and boy are they gorgeous, so enjoy those, I hit mine once and absolutely loved them.

[Yoshifan151]

7 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

I've heard this on forums here and mine are Hoffman made but the chrome has held up really nice. The patina on the impact zone is worn from a gazillion range balls but the heads look great. I believe that issue was resolved before the T stamp run. I also have NIB T's and boy are they gorgeous, so enjoy those, I hit mine once and absolutely loved them.

Sweet, thanks again for the insight! Haven't hit mine yet as they're just way too good to look at lol, gonna get some good use out of my Srixons before I switch over to them.

[DeNinny]

44 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

You cannot assemble the head to shaft without it. It becomes a piston and things won't seat properly. 

I see.  It's not about impact as it is the actual seal starts as soon as you push in the dowel.  That makes more sense!

[DeNinny]

Based on all this dowel discussion I don't think a foam insert/dowel will be the same as wood.  If I ever try it, it's gonna be with wood.

[DeNinny]

Also minor rant here...I'm so glad irons/ blades have not changed over to those quick disconnect shafts and such that they use for quick fittings and now they are somewhat standard for new woods and drivers.  I'll stay with glued shafts thank you very much.  I don't need yet another feel killing "device".  Not to mention the added weight.

 

End rant.

[NRJyzr]

4 minutes ago, DeNinny said:

Based on all this dowel discussion I don't think a foam insert/dowel will be the same as wood.  If I ever try it, it's gonna be with wood.

 

The foam inserts are really intended as some version of sensicore, closer to the butt end.  I suppose one could fashion something that would fit near the tip, but I've not heard of anyone who has tried.

 

Going back a couple posts....  I've run in to the pressure lock situation in the past, with a reshaft.  I got ahead of myself and didn't make sure there was no old epoxy damming the air flow.  It was pretty funny feeling the hosel reject the shaft.  A Dikembe Mutombo shaft fit.  LOL

[DeNinny]

2 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

The foam inserts are really intended as some version of sensicore, closer to the butt end.  I suppose one could fashion something that would fit near the tip, but I've not heard of anyone who has tried.

 

Going back a couple posts....  I've run in to the pressure lock situation in the past, with a reshaft.  I got ahead of myself and didn't make sure there was no old epoxy damming the air flow.  It was pretty funny feeling the hosel reject the shaft.  A Dikembe Mutombo shaft fit.  LOL

I'll probably just switch to graphite or steelfiber (ugh) before I experiment with a foam insert.  I already wear two gloves with leather grips, so I don't need any more "vibration dampers".

 

LOL it's so obvious about the air lock thing after we talk about it.  LMFAO I'm a chem e and totally forgot about Boyle's Law.  😂

 

 

 

 

[NRJyzr]

10 minutes ago, DeNinny said:

I'll probably just switch to graphite or steelfiber (ugh) before I experiment with a foam insert.  I already wear two gloves with leather grips, so I don't need any more "vibration dampers".

 

LOL it's so obvious about the air lock thing after we talk about it.  LMFAO I'm a chem e and totally forgot about Boyle's Law.  😂

 

 

 

 

 

Foam inserts aren't so bad.  🙂   I'm about to try them (again) to avoid having to reshaft one of my sets, as I transition to graphite in other sets.

 

Steelfiber also isn't so bad.  I've got a 53* wedge with the i125, it's just a stiffer bottom section version of DG, with vibration dampening.

 

The i110 is a little odd, since it swingweights light, and is a bit stiffer than same flex DG, but its great if it fits you.   Like everything in this game 😉

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by NRJyzr