Does anyone know why Seve Ballesteros was inconsistent off the Tee?

[Golf-Geek]

I'm a big Fan of Seve and he was arguably one of the best or the best at recovery shots and short game I just wonder why perhaps the tee box seem to be his nemesis from past footage I've seen of him which effectively made him inconsistent at going for those Major trophies of course he won plenty of professional comps but he had plenty of attempts at this love to know other golfers views on this :)

 

He was inconsistent from tee.

Main reason was his movements that was all over the map combined with a bad pivot.

He never could get it right from tee and he tried to fix it many times.

 

Seve learned to play with a 3i from sand, that meant his movements was based on timing the movement which is fine to an extent but when you play agaisnt the best if your off a bit then you wont win.

same happens to Rory as he continiously loose his swing which just shows the golf trainers dont know how to teach what works.

Tiger went the same route and listen to experts that couldnt teach him what he wanted to do.

 

Genuine question - do you think Seve would have been more successful if he'd had you as a coach?

No I'm a handicap player I would be to busy trying to learn from his short game :) But it's spot on what you said it's nice to get more info from other golfer about this subject. I've notice people wanting me to take a lesson from your good self? :)

[Golf-Geek]

Golf Geek, You're in Finland, RBImGuy is in Sweden. Close enough for a road trip, right? You should get a lesson from him and post it on your YT channel. That would be HUGE! Everybody on GolfWRX would tune in to see it! Double, maybe quadruple, your subscribers, guaranteed!

Yeah I wouldn't mind to do this anything that will help me to learn and improve in this game :) where are you from?

[Golf-Geek]

Golf Geek, You're in Finland, RBImGuy is in Sweden. Close enough for a road trip, right? You should get a lesson from him and post it on your YT channel. That would be HUGE! Everybody on GolfWRX would tune in to see it! Double, maybe quadruple, your subscribers, guaranteed!

 

if he could make it out alive

or that case I'll approach this with caution :)

[Golf-Geek]

You can argue for ever about technique and the like but the reality is that was his swing and the one he could win with. At some point his back started to bother him and he couldn't swing that way anymore. He made some changes and then started to think about his swing instead of the shot and he lost his game.

 

 

And the other part is that the main reason we think of him as being poor off the tee is that the other parts of the game were insanely good. If he was just average, the driving looked horrible when compared to the rest of the game.

spent so much time on his short game which I've realised is massively important to add to my game recently :)

[Golf-Geek]

One of my all time favorites. I think his golf swing in his prime was under-rated, you do not win the British Open and Masters multiple times without driving the ball well. Prior to the early 1990's when his long game left him completely, he was very long and accurate enough. His short game and shot making made up for it. From 1985-1989, his swing actually improved significantly and he drove the ball very well. In the mid 1980's, his swing tightened up a little and his foot work was better. Look at video of the 1986 Masters, 1987 Masters and the British Open in 1988. He really played well those years. His bad driving in his prime was more myth than anything else. He never did well in the US Open or PGA, but no Euro did in the 1980's.

Like some people have already pointed out that he was more an Artist than just a player :)

[Golf-Geek]

If only Seve had a certain "instructor's" one pupil's mechanics, he'd have won 30 majors and never missed a fairway.

So who in your opinion would those people be?

[avrag]

In his instruction book "Natural Golf", Seve talked a lot about his main "feel", which was firing the right side from the top of the back swing, including the right shoulder, the right arm, the right wrist. I guess this should be enough of an explanation for inconsistency off the tee, especially with the equipment of the 1980s.

[TheInfidel]

A candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long. The guy has 5 majors, 91 professional wins, and took his green jacket home to Spain.

[notsohard]

I'm a big Fan of Seve and he was arguably one of the best or the best at recovery shots and short game I just wonder why perhaps the tee box seem to be his nemesis from past footage I've seen of him which effectively made him inconsistent at going for those Major trophies of course he won plenty of professional comps but he had plenty of attempts at this love to know other golfers views on this :)

 

 

 

Here are your top 5 drivers of the ball. How many majors between them?.....I'll take Seve's wild driving sprays any day ;)

TOUR AVERAGE 59.59 1 Thomas Aiken 77.44 2 Fred Funk 76.79 3 Justin Leonard 74.40 4 Bill Haas 74.00 5 Kevin Kisner 73.10

[pinhigh27]

I'm a big Fan of Seve and he was arguably one of the best or the best at recovery shots and short game I just wonder why perhaps the tee box seem to be his nemesis from past footage I've seen of him which effectively made him inconsistent at going for those Major trophies of course he won plenty of professional comps but he had plenty of attempts at this love to know other golfers views on this :)

 

 

 

Here are your top 5 drivers of the ball. How many majors between them?.....I'll take Seve's wild driving sprays any day ;)

TOUR AVERAGE 59.59 1 Thomas Aiken 77.44 2 Fred Funk 76.79 3 Justin Leonard 74.40 4 Bill Haas 74.00 5 Kevin Kisner 73.10

 

What? Since when is driving accuracy the only metric of being a good driver. Look at total driving. The best win a lot.

[CrabDaddy]

Golf Geek, You're in Finland, RBImGuy is in Sweden. Close enough for a road trip, right? You should get a lesson from him and post it on your YT channel. That would be HUGE! Everybody on GolfWRX would tune in to see it! Double, maybe quadruple, your subscribers, guaranteed!

Yeah I wouldn't mind to do this anything that will help me to learn and improve in this game :) where are you from?

I'm from Maryland, otherwise I'd offer to ride shotgun!

[PowderedToastMan]

I heard from an inner source that he was actually a super accurate driver of the ball but he would intentionally hit it off the planet so he could showcase his recovery shot skills.

My guess, if this is true, is that he said this to take the pressure off himself in competition. Hitting the fairway became one less thing to worry about under the gun because those close to him "knew" he wasn't aiming for the fairway. It's an easier pull to swallow than coming to terms you've got the driver yips under pressure. That statement just screams of an excuse to protect the ego, which is a popular thing among golfers.

 

You know who else hits every fairway with no pressure? Tiger Woods.

[Yeballix]

It's a fair question, it misses the point of the man though and I genuinely have wasted my best youthful years myself trying to copy what he did in his swing

He is my sporting hero, forget the rest

He the is reason a lot of my friends and I wanted to learn the game I was a soccer fan until I seen him win at St. Andrews

His method was self taught and based on extraordinary athletic ability..

 

Its easy to forget what a long hitter he was considered to be in his youth, but combined with an ability around the greens that made getting yourself out of jail by successfully being a smartass from 40 yards in the cabbage the coolest thing you could do..

 

Running around Concorde after losing the Ryder cup in 1983 (after bluffing even paul way he was a world beater!!!).and convincing everyone that it was a done deal at the belfry 2 years later....it was.. Oh yes ...

 

Single handed ensuring European tour players had equal rights on the PGA tour at substantial economic and professional cost to himself.

 

So to hell with the swing, check out the man. What a man!!

May God rest him

 

 

 

[BMC]

Seve looked like what a golfer should look like.

 

He was occasionally wild, but long. He played with no fear because he was the ultimate scrambler.

That swing, with the reverse "C", took its toll on his back.

 

He had a pretty long career. He was young when he first starting winning. Does his story sound familiar? Tiger?

[scunny]

His driving as a few have said wasn't as inaccurate as it may have seemed although his game declined due to his driving at the end. From what i've been able to gather from some coaches who spent siginificant times with him at through his career it came down to 2 issues

#1 : Seve's right arm was significantly longer than his left (2" i believe) which coupled with huge hand's gave him incredible ability to manipulate the clubhead but put a huge strain on his back and the low left shoulder position into impact that many observed. I think even prior to winning The Open he was already using a frame to aleviate the back pain away from the course

#2 : His imagination skills are obviously well documented but when the back problems started to become more and more severe the swing that would allow him to physically keep going would mean going to a stock weaker one dimensional tee shot. Leadbetter even stated at a UK coaching conference that he'd done a bit of work with Seve and they worked to create a reliable pain free tee shot, which looked like it was bringing him into major contention again with his ability to get the ball close once in play. However this very different way of playing didn't sit with Seve's eye and he took heed of many observers who commented that isn't how he played and abandoned the idea.

Always remember him Price and Faldo playing the final round at Lytham and just shooting the lights out and through his prime he US open record stands up, such a pity his game declined so quickly so

[Man_O_War]

he like tiger later just lashed at the ball too hard... confidence goes down and he lashes even more

[dap]

My guess is that Seve had a really steep transition especially with the longer clubs when he made a full backswing.. The club would be pointing at his toes which is really uncommon for a tour player but he made up for this flaw with pure genius.

[Llefty]

I faintly remember an old Golf Digest(?) article about Mac O'Grady who said he worked with Seve. Supposedly, Mac fixed Seve's swing,but Seve went back to his old swing as soon as he went home and had to show his "new" swing to his brother,his friends,etc. Very sad,he was a unique talent.

[EKELLY]

I heard from an inner source that he was actually a super accurate driver of the ball but he would intentionally hit it off the planet so he could showcase his recovery shot skills.

When you're in the junk all the time, fairways may be uncomfortable.....lol

[JustTheTips]

I faintly remember an old Golf Digest(?) article about Mac O'Grady who said he worked with Seve. Supposedly, Mac fixed Seve's swing,but Seve went back to his old swing as soon as he went home and had to show his "new" swing to his brother,his friends,etc. Very sad,he was a unique talent.

 

I am not sure I would believe anything Mac says. Guy isn't exactly stable:) That being said hitting shots in practice is one thing. Hitting shots at a tournament is another. I remember reading articles talking about him (much like Tiger) striping on the practice range and the hitting the course and playing army golf.

[birly-shirly]

If you can lay hands on Bob Torrance's instruction book, you'll find a chapter which I think was written in conjunction with Sam assessing the "best in class" on tour in different aspects of the game. Bernhard Langer got the nod over Seve in the short game, but Seve was nominated as the best driver on tour, based on length, ability to shape the ball every which way, and having the knack of missing in the right place.

 

I saw my first set of performance stats when I was taken to the Open in '86 and Seve was top of the driving distance rankings for the European Tour. When you're the longest on tour, you're bound to miss a few more fairways, and you can afford to. I think Mark Broadie's analysis showed that Tiger was actually a much more effective driver of the ball through his Haney years than most commentators ever gave him credit for. There is no strokes gained data to support this, but I expect Seve was probably similar.

 

No doubt though that his driving deteriorated later in his career - and back trouble surely didn't help.

 

I think Seve's swing was awesome in his prime. With his power and ability to move the ball both ways, I have to think that his swing must have been pretty damn neutral and balanced.

[Shilgy]

Seems a lot of these threads have posts about how such and such a swing was too timing based. I have never seen a swing that was not dependent on timing. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction?

[Ri_Redneck]

Beautiful women leaning over the ropes on every tee box will do that to any golfer!!

 

BT

[JustTheTips]

Seems a lot of these threads have posts about how such and such a swing was too timing based. I have never seen a swing that was not dependent on timing. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction?

 

You realize there is a difference between too timing based, being timing based, and not dependent? Nobody thinks the last one exists. Lots of people think the 2nd one does.

[mocokid]

Beautiful women leaning over the ropes on every tee box will do that to any golfer!!

 

BT

 

And he did not ignore them !!

[mocokid]

His driving as a few have said wasn't as inaccurate as it may have seemed although his game declined due to his driving at the end. From what i've been able to gather from some coaches who spent siginificant times with him at through his career it came down to 2 issues

#1 : Seve's right arm was significantly longer than his left (2" i believe) which coupled with huge hand's gave him incredible ability to manipulate the clubhead but put a huge strain on his back and the low left shoulder position into impact that many observed. I think even prior to winning The Open he was already using a frame to aleviate the back pain away from the course

#2 : His imagination skills are obviously well documented but when the back problems started to become more and more severe the swing that would allow him to physically keep going would mean going to a stock weaker one dimensional tee shot. Leadbetter even stated at a UK coaching conference that he'd done a bit of work with Seve and they worked to create a reliable pain free tee shot, which looked like it was bringing him into major contention again with his ability to get the ball close once in play. However this very different way of playing didn't sit with Seve's eye and he took heed of many observers who commented that isn't how he played and abandoned the idea.

Always remember him Price and Faldo playing the final round at Lytham and just shooting the lights out and through his prime he US open record stands up, such a pity his game declined so quickly so

 

He worked with a lot of teachers, I think Ballard at some point, the previous quote above from his book mentions firing the right side (sounds like Ballard), which others ? The constant tinkering with different teachers, plus his bad back, did not help his swing.