Can The USGA Ever Compete With The Masters, And If So, How?

[knock it close]

So so far we have people complaining that the pros hit it too far and the game is too easy and then we have others saying that they don't want to see the guys have to grind it out to win a US Open at +3 or +4. So clearly there isn't one right answer.

[Shilgy]

So so far we have people complaining that the pros hit it too far and the game is too easy and then we have others saying that they don't want to see the guys have to grind it out to win a US Open at +3 or +4. So clearly there isn't one right answer.

Usually those two comments come from the same guys-go figure. :swoon2:

[Christosterone]

How is nobody mentioning the absolute debacle that was the "British" ball?!?

For decades there existed an absolute war over allowing a different, smaller ball for the Open Championship..

 

This was and is a horrible idea....

 

Interesting nugget: Ben Hogan, captain of the 67 Ryder Cup, opted for the US to use the smaller, longer British ball

 

-Christosterone

[widow-maker]

Realistically the US Open could just rotate through Shin, Oakmont, Merion, and maybe Winged Foot. You could talk me into pebble too.

Actually, I'm in favor of them moving it around the country. Oakland Hills, Southern Hills, Hazeltine, Medinah, Cherry Hills, Riviera, Pinehurst, Congressional... plenty of good venues. The courses don't have to be 7600-8000 yds long. Just pinch the fairways in certain spots and make the rough penal. Heck, if they ever ran some of these old courses greens at 13-14 on the stimp, some of these guys might not finish. The greens at Oakland Hills were barely at 10 for the Ryder Cup there. There are plenty of ways to make a golf course tough. But, it's the U S Open. It should be moved around so that people from all parts of the country can attend without taking a plane trip.

[knock it close]

Realistically the US Open could just rotate through Shin, Oakmont, Merion, and maybe Winged Foot. You could talk me into pebble too.

Actually, I'm in favor of them moving it around the country. Oakland Hills, Southern Hills, Hazeltine, Medinah, Cherry Hills, Riviera, Pinehurst, Congressional... plenty of good venues. The courses don't have to be 7600-8000 yds long. Just pinch the fairways in certain spots and make the rough penal. Heck, if they ever ran some of these old courses greens at 13-14 on the stimp, some of these guys might not finish. The greens at Oakland Hills were barely at 10 for the Ryder Cup there. There are plenty of ways to make a golf course tough. But, it's the U S Open. It should be moved around so that people from all parts of the country can attend without taking a plane trip.

There in lies the debate. Is it about making it accessible to more people and exposing different places to the event or holding it at the best possible venues.

 

I'd be in for adding the first two on your list. As much as I love Riv I think it's a PGA course and I think #2 would make a great PGA course too.

[tannyhoban]

The horse has left the barn, turning back the ball won't solve anything. - especially if it's another bifurcated unilateral kinda thing. The only chance the USGA has is to move the U.S. Open up to early March so it's the first major on the schedule. Playing in sleet and snow would cover up the brownouts.

[2zlinks]

I think they will have an impossible time just based on the date on the calendar. The Masters is the first major every year, the US Open is buried in summer when things are busier and the newness of the season has worn off. April is when most are dreaming of an improved game that has been shelved for months. By June reality has set in and well you get the picture. Add in the same known venue and it is an 8 and 7 Masters runaway.

[spinnywedge]

I don't ever think the USGA will be able to compete with the Masters. The Masters has too much history recognized with it: Jack's 6 wins, Tiger's 4 wins, Bobby Jones, and the list goes on and on. There's an unreal feeling when you walk in the gates at Augusta National, and it's kept in better shape than any course in the world. When you see pictures of it, the course looks like an inviting course to play. With its luscious fairways, almost no rough (basically the 1st cut at local courses), and all the azaleas, there's not a better place to play golf. The US Open is just eh...thick grass, long holes, 20-30 MPH winds, firm greens, you might as well play in Scotland. Sure, it is the US's National Championship of golf, but besides the blue and red, I think most people will always see the Masters as golf's greatest tournament.

[Titleist 670]

Let's just put it this way. My office has a Masters pool with a TON of people who enter.

 

Nobody talks about the US Open.

 

If the USGA wants to garner that kind of following, they have a lot of work to do.

 

It's like comparing the first round of the NBA playoffs with March Madness from a casual perspective.

[johnnypro]

Realistically the US Open could just rotate through Shin, Oakmont, Merion, and maybe Winged Foot. You could talk me into pebble too.

Actually, I'm in favor of them moving it around the country. Oakland Hills, Southern Hills, Hazeltine, Medinah, Cherry Hills, Riviera, Pinehurst, Congressional... plenty of good venues. The courses don't have to be 7600-8000 yds long. Just pinch the fairways in certain spots and make the rough penal. Heck, if they ever ran some of these old courses greens at 13-14 on the stimp, some of these guys might not finish. The greens at Oakland Hills were barely at 10 for the Ryder Cup there. There are plenty of ways to make a golf course tough. But, it's the U S Open. It should be moved around so that people from all parts of the country can attend without taking a plane trip.

 

I guess I agree.....the USGA should have a rota of 6 - 8 courses, kind of like the Open Championship. Stay away from newer courses, stick with traditional venues. Spread it around the country. Shinnecock, Winged Foot, Oakmont, Pebble, LACC North, maybe Southern Hills. Anywhere but Pinehurst.

 

I love the US Open, the potential for it be brutal to the point of embarrassing these prima donnas.

I love the Masters, too but I just can't take the Green Jacket / Butler Cabin / tradition unlike any other / Nantz / patrons bull$hit any more.

[Hawkeye77]

Barney came up with a dumb idea, apparently because he needed "something" for a column.

 

Golfwrx should have had better sense than to put up such nonsense.

 

 

[Shilgy]

Realistically the US Open could just rotate through Shin, Oakmont, Merion, and maybe Winged Foot. You could talk me into pebble too.

Actually, I'm in favor of them moving it around the country. Oakland Hills, Southern Hills, Hazeltine, Medinah, Cherry Hills, Riviera, Pinehurst, Congressional... plenty of good venues. The courses don't have to be 7600-8000 yds long. Just pinch the fairways in certain spots and make the rough penal. Heck, if they ever ran some of these old courses greens at 13-14 on the stimp, some of these guys might not finish. The greens at Oakland Hills were barely at 10 for the Ryder Cup there. There are plenty of ways to make a golf course tough. But, it's the U S Open. It should be moved around so that people from all parts of the country can attend without taking a plane trip.

 

I guess I agree.....the USGA should have a rota of 6 - 8 courses, kind of like the Open Championship. Stay away from newer courses, stick with traditional venues. Spread it around the country. Shinnecock, Winged Foot, Oakmont, Pebble, LACC North, maybe Southern Hills. Anywhere but Pinehurst.

 

I love the US Open, the potential for it be brutal to the point of embarrassing these prima donnas.

I love the Masters, too but I just can't take the Green Jacket / Butler Cabin / tradition unlike any other / Nantz / patrons bull$hit any more.

"embarrassing the prima donas"? Do you don't want to see how good they are really? Let's say you are a scratch player. Do you want to play an event where 80 would be a great, make that a GREAT, score? If your whole event was filled with scratch players do you think a course tricked up to make 80 a good score would be a fair and true test to see which scratch was the better player?

I guess that puts us on opposite sides of the US Open test opinions.

[Nard_S]

Used to be that the 12th at Augusta was looked on as a crucible to winning at the Master's.

Why?

Wind.

But not anymore. Why?

Modern ball has tamed the 12th.

It is not the distance, it is the wind cheating ability that really has changed things.

Golf without wind, majors without the wind as a factor is boring or at a minimum less interesting.

If you doubt, grab an old 3 piece, there are some out there and they still work and go play 18 and see for yourself.

[fairways4life]

The Masters has an identity. Lush course, same venue every year and generally a birdie fest (except for the Zach Johnson year). It has things about it that make it unique.

 

The US Open also has an identity. Tough as nails, tricked up course, best players in the world chopping it around. It too has things that make it unique.

 

The British Open also has an identity. Crazy weather and courses with a ton of history that are often a bit quirky. It too has things that make it unique.

 

The PGA doesn't really have a strong identity. It's arguably the strongest field of the 4 majors but it really doesn't have anything that makes it unique. Might be part of the reason why its the least popular of the 4 majors.

 

There are professional golf tournaments every week of the year. It's important for tournaments to do things to distinguish themselves and stand apart from the crowd. Otherwise, we'd be left with the same tournament every week. Same scores, same conditions, same style of course, same style of play. That would get old real fast. If the US Open resembled the Masters ....... well ........... we already have a Masters. We don't need another one. We need a US Open.

 

The Phoenix Open is unique in that all fan etiquette goes out the window for one week. The match play tournament is unique in that it uses a different format for one week. We need to keep this kind of diversity in the game, not just have every tournament try to copy the Masters and end up with 52 tournaments a year that all look and feel the same.

[Hawkeye77]

Used to be that the 12th at Augusta was looked on as a crucible to winning at the Master's.

Why?

Wind.

But not anymore. Why?

Modern ball has tamed the 12th.

It is not the distance, it is the wind cheating ability that really has changed things.

Golf without wind, majors without the wind as a factor is boring or at a minimum less interesting.

If you doubt, grab an old 3 piece, there are some out there and they still work and go play 18 and see for yourself.

 

What are you talking about?

[vwgolfer]

The USGA and MIKE Davis are idiots and blowhard nimcumpoops. F them. They trick up all the classic courses, ruin the new ones, and then BARNEY calls for a roll back of the ball??? What the F-CK. Screw you. How about not dicking around with every single golf course the US Open is played on. Let them play. Get over your idiotic obsession with par and how hard you can make it. You wanna know why the Masters is so much better than the LAME US Open.............Back nine birdies on SUNDAY. Other wise Golf is a freakin snore fest. Every year the US Open is the same Thursday through Saturday the USGA make it borderline ridiculous and then on Sunday they seem to calm down and let the course breath a bit. Birdies happen and then there is some interesting golf and everyone forgets about how stupid the course is set up rounds 1-3. Plus they need a huge amount of space for those 200K $ Corporate Tents, The USGA are almost as bad as the NCAA, money $ is all they care about. STOP with the rolling back the ball bullsh-t.

[jli2636]

Every "region" of the country has a venue that can legitimately host a US Open. It is the United States Open Championship, not the coastal championship...

 

West region: Olympic, Pebble, Sahalee, Riviera, etc

East: too many to name, but The Country Club, Oakmont, Winged Foot, Bethpage

South: Southern Hills, Atlanta Athletic Club, The Ocean Course, Pinehurst

Midwest: Medinah, Whistling, Erin Hills, muirfield village, Crooked Stick,

Hazeltine

 

I guess really Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, etc are really the only areas that don't have a venue capable of hosting a major off the top of my head.

[knock it close]

Used to be that the 12th at Augusta was looked on as a crucible to winning at the Master's.

Why?

Wind.

But not anymore. Why?

Modern ball has tamed the 12th.

It is not the distance, it is the wind cheating ability that really has changed things.

Golf without wind, majors without the wind as a factor is boring or at a minimum less interesting.

If you doubt, grab an old 3 piece, there are some out there and they still work and go play 18 and see for yourself.

 

What are you talking about?

Yea I'm confused are there stats to back this up? I know it played easier than normal last year but so did everything else, I also know it played harder than normal in 2014.

[knock it close]

Every "region" of the country has a venue that can legitimately host a US Open. It is the United States Open Championship, not the coastal championship...

 

West region: Olympic, Pebble, Sahalee, Riviera, etc

East: too many to name, but The Country Club, Oakmont, Winged Foot, Bethpage

South: Southern Hills, Atlanta Athletic Club, The Ocean Course, Pinehurst

Midwest: Medinah, Whistling, Erin Hills, muirfield village, Crooked Stick,

Hazeltine

 

I guess really Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, etc are really the only areas that don't have a venue capable of hosting a major off the top of my head.

There's also a US Open in Tennis and guess what it's held at Billie Jean King every year. Sometimes having it at the best possible venue is more important than moving it around.

 

Also with the courses you're counting there you could include Cherry Hills for Colorado and Colonial for Texas.

[farmer]

Masters is the first breath of spring, the Open is a hot, sweaty day with no AC. As to rolling back the ball ... outside of golf nerd sites, watching guys launch balls to the moon is hugely entertaining. The first time I watched DL3 back in his prime, it was "Sacred Sh1t, did you see that?!!!". Barney, leave my balls alone.

[bladehunter]

The USGA and MIKE Davis are idiots and blowhard nimcumpoops. F them. They trick up all the classic courses, ruin the new ones, and then BARNEY calls for a roll back of the ball??? What the F-CK. Screw you. How about not dicking around with every single golf course the US Open is played on. Let them play. Get over your idiotic obsession with par and how hard you can make it. You wanna know why the Masters is so much better than the LAME US Open.............Back nine birdies on SUNDAY. Other wise Golf is a freakin snore fest. Every year the US Open is the same Thursday through Saturday the USGA make it borderline ridiculous and then on Sunday they seem to calm down and let the course breath a bit. Birdies happen and then there is some interesting golf and everyone forgets about how stupid the course is set up rounds 1-3. Plus they need a huge amount of space for those 200K $ Corporate Tents, The USGA are almost as bad as the NCAA, money $ is all they care about. STOP with the rolling back the ball bullsh-t.

 

 

 

roll back the ball for EVERYONE....there I said it!..while we are at it cutting driver head size down to 350cc would complete the rollback..... its not so much the distance its the control.... If the ball were not as straight and drivers not as forgiving guys couldn't afford to swing out of their shoes..why? because you couldn't keep it on the planet

[jli2636]

Every "region" of the country has a venue that can legitimately host a US Open. It is the United States Open Championship, not the coastal championship...

 

West region: Olympic, Pebble, Sahalee, Riviera, etc

East: too many to name, but The Country Club, Oakmont, Winged Foot, Bethpage

South: Southern Hills, Atlanta Athletic Club, The Ocean Course, Pinehurst

Midwest: Medinah, Whistling, Erin Hills, muirfield village, Crooked Stick,

Hazeltine

 

I guess really Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, etc are really the only areas that don't have a venue capable of hosting a major off the top of my head.

There's also a US Open in Tennis and guess what it's held at Billie Jean King every year. Sometimes having it at the best possible venue is more important than moving it around.

 

Also with the courses you're counting there you could include Cherry Hills for Colorado and Colonial for Texas.

 

Forgot about those 2 thanks. I don't think Tennis is a fair comparison because all 4 majors are played in the same arenas every year. Would you want the PGA, Open Championship, and US Open played at the same course every year?

[Nard_S]

I am going back a bit here.

 

Amen Corner is known for unpredictable wind. At least it used to be. The wind has less bearing on shot selection than it used to back in the bad old days.That is one small example why the ball matters. Why things are less interesting than it can be.

 

People talk of modern pro as so much stronger and better.They are to some extent but truth is guys back in the day had to dial back in competition because of side spin of ball.

 

With modern tech of ball and driver, guys can air it out every time

 

Aerodynamics of the ball matter. Especially at the PGA level.

 

The game that was played 25-30 years was a different game specifically because wind manipulated the ball more. Like I said, grab a a 3 piece and find out for yourself.

[Hawkeye77]

I am going back a bit here.

 

Amen Corner is known for unpredictable wind. At least it used to be. The wind has less bearing on shot selection than it used to back in the bad old days.That is one small example why the ball matters. Why things are less interesting than it can be.

 

People talk of modern pro as so much stronger and better.They are to some extent but truth is guys back in the day had to dial back in competition because of side spin of ball.

 

With modern tech of ball and driver, guys can air it out every time

 

Aerodynamics of the ball matter. Especially at the PGA level.

 

The game that was played 25-30 years was a different game specifically because wind manipulated the ball more. Like I said, grab a a 3 piece and find out for yourself.

 

And this has what to do with how "pivotal" you claim 12 has been? Nobody is airing it out on 12 and ball/equipment matters less there than on lots of other holes.

[Soloman1]

My little 35 IQ still doesn't understand why the USGA feels like it has to one-up The Masters. I wish that was explained better.

 

Does the R&A fret over The Masters?

 

I'm not sure that the USGA should use the Kim Kardashian model to maintain its legacy.

[Forged4ever]

LMAO, ok, I'm layin here in a hospital bed and I just woke up and I only got sight outa my right eye and cuz of Meds, it's blurred and I can't get out of bed to get my glasses cuz of the IVs and the friggin nurses are AWOL(or avoiding me however I'm a great patient so that ain't it ;) ). So I read Barnie's article before I started the thread earlier about a different ball however in reading the first page , everywhere someone posted "tour ball" it appeared to me as "four ball," lmao

 

Now I respect no one more than Knock it and B.Helts but I'm thinkin "WTF are these two talkin about replacing the US Open with a four ball," LMAO

 

So I read their posts again and it still looks like "four ball" to me-

 

I started a response and the nurse shows up, gives me my glasses and I reread their posts and see the correct words, "tour ball," LMAO.

 

A four ball to replace the current individual medal of the US Open to match or surpass the Masters???

 

It's bed time Gents :)

 

Thanks for responding and I'll see ya tomorrow~

 

Oh, BH and Knockster, I'm glad that I misread it, lmao

 

I was thinkin that maybe you guys were the ones on Dilaudid, haha.

 

Take care Gents :)

 

As Always~

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends,

RP

[Nard_S]

I am going back a bit here.

 

Amen Corner is known for unpredictable wind. At least it used to be. The wind has less bearing on shot selection than it used to back in the bad old days.That is one small example why the ball matters. Why things are less interesting than it can be.

 

People talk of modern pro as so much stronger and better.They are to some extent but truth is guys back in the day had to dial back in competition because of side spin of ball.

 

With modern tech of ball and driver, guys can air it out every time

 

Aerodynamics of the ball matter. Especially at the PGA level.

 

The game that was played 25-30 years was a different game specifically because wind manipulated the ball more. Like I said, grab a a 3 piece and find out for yourself.

 

And this has what to do with how "pivotal" you claim 12 has been? Nobody is airing it out on 12 and ball/equipment matters less there than on lots of other holes.

 

This is my 30th year watching the Masters. The 12th was more precarious back in the day because the swirling winds had greater effect on the shot.

It's been ages since the tournament has been determined there. If you have ever played old school you know what I speak of. I went from Ping Eye 2's w/ Balata to Ram Pro Grinds w/ Precept EV and the latter was far easier. The modern ball has changed the game by neutering the effect of wind.

[bladehunter]

LMAO, ok, I'm layin here in a hospital bed and I just woke up and I only got sight outa my right eye and cuz of Meds, it's blurred and I can't get out of bed to get my glasses cuz of the IVs and the friggin nurses are AWOL(or avoiding me however I'm a great patient so that ain't it ;) ). So I read Barnie's article before I started the thread earlier about a different ball however in reading the first page , everywhere someone posted "tour ball" it appeared to me as "four ball," lmao

 

Now I respect no one more than Knock it and B.Helts but I'm thinkin "WTF are these two talkin about replacing the US Open with a four ball," LMAO

 

So I read their posts again and it still looks like "four ball" to me-

 

I started a response and the nurse shows up, gives me my glasses and I reread their posts and see the correct words, "tour ball," LMAO.

 

A four ball to replace the current individual medal of the US Open to match or surpass the Masters???

 

It's bed time Gents :)

 

Thanks of responding and I'll see ya tomorrow~

 

Oh, BH and Knockster, I'm glad that I misread it, lmao

 

I was thinkin that maybe you guys were the ones on Dilaudid, haha.

 

Take care Gents :)

 

As Always~

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends,

RP

 

 

 

You crack me up Brother.!.... Get well soon Richard.... I hope I read about you getting back out in the breeze very soon!

[Shilgy]

I am going back a bit here.

 

Amen Corner is known for unpredictable wind. At least it used to be. The wind has less bearing on shot selection than it used to back in the bad old days.That is one small example why the ball matters. Why things are less interesting than it can be.

 

People talk of modern pro as so much stronger and better.They are to some extent but truth is guys back in the day had to dial back in competition because of side spin of ball.

 

With modern tech of ball and driver, guys can air it out every time

 

Aerodynamics of the ball matter. Especially at the PGA level.

 

The game that was played 25-30 years was a different game specifically because wind manipulated the ball more. Like I said, grab a a 3 piece and find out for yourself.

 

And this has what to do with how "pivotal" you claim 12 has been? Nobody is airing it out on 12 and ball/equipment matters less there than on lots of other holes.

 

This is my 30th year watching the Masters. The 12th was more precarious back in the day because the swirling winds had greater effect on the shot.

It's been ages since the tournament has been determined there. If you have ever played old school you know what I speak of. I went from Ping Eye 2's w/ Balata to Ram Pro Grinds w/ Precept EV and the latter was far easier. The modern ball has changed the game by neutering the effect of wind.

30 years is a long time? 1986, the year Jack won his last is a long time ago? And Ping Eye 2's are some ancient sticks? Smh, dots you see some of us discussing BTO and Foghat? Lol. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the old ball may have been shorter but it was easier to control in the hands of a good golfer. You think just maybe that is why Tiger had a ball that spun more, not less?

[Nard_S]

I am going back a bit here.

 

Amen Corner is known for unpredictable wind. At least it used to be. The wind has less bearing on shot selection than it used to back in the bad old days.That is one small example why the ball matters. Why things are less interesting than it can be.

 

People talk of modern pro as so much stronger and better.They are to some extent but truth is guys back in the day had to dial back in competition because of side spin of ball.

 

With modern tech of ball and driver, guys can air it out every time

 

Aerodynamics of the ball matter. Especially at the PGA level.

 

The game that was played 25-30 years was a different game specifically because wind manipulated the ball more. Like I said, grab a a 3 piece and find out for yourself.

 

And this has what to do with how "pivotal" you claim 12 has been? Nobody is airing it out on 12 and ball/equipment matters less there than on lots of other holes.

 

This is my 30th year watching the Masters. The 12th was more precarious back in the day because the swirling winds had greater effect on the shot.

It's been ages since the tournament has been determined there. If you have ever played old school you know what I speak of. I went from Ping Eye 2's w/ Balata to Ram Pro Grinds w/ Precept EV and the latter was far easier. The modern ball has changed the game by neutering the effect of wind.

30 years is a long time? 1986, the year Jack won his last is a long time ago? And Ping Eye 2's are some ancient sticks? Smh, dots you see some of us discussing BTO and Foghat? Lol. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the old ball may have been shorter but it was easier to control in the hands of a good golfer. You think just maybe that is why Tiger had a ball that spun more, not less?

 

Nick Price became #1 being talented and using a 2 piece ball.

Greg Norman was #1 for years. He lost an awful lot of tournaments because he used a hyper spinning 3 piece.

Tiger was an early adopter of Pro V type ball..

After Tiger nobody was using 3 piece.

 

It is no contest which ball cuts through the wind better. Anybody who has actually used both knows.

 

I still use both, sort of I have 6 dozen of HT wounds (they're Surlyn covered) and several of B330s. I see the proof every weekend.

 

Enjoy The Masters, Tell you what, if the 12th hole decides the winner I will eat the next chipmunk my cat drags in.