Can The USGA Ever Compete With The Masters, And If So, How?

[KrazyTrain18]

Nope, nothing can match the allure and atmosphere of everything we associate with the Masters and Augusta.

[johnnypro]

Realistically the US Open could just rotate through Shin, Oakmont, Merion, and maybe Winged Foot. You could talk me into pebble too.

Actually, I'm in favor of them moving it around the country. Oakland Hills, Southern Hills, Hazeltine, Medinah, Cherry Hills, Riviera, Pinehurst, Congressional... plenty of good venues. The courses don't have to be 7600-8000 yds long. Just pinch the fairways in certain spots and make the rough penal. Heck, if they ever ran some of these old courses greens at 13-14 on the stimp, some of these guys might not finish. The greens at Oakland Hills were barely at 10 for the Ryder Cup there. There are plenty of ways to make a golf course tough. But, it's the U S Open. It should be moved around so that people from all parts of the country can attend without taking a plane trip.

 

I guess I agree.....the USGA should have a rota of 6 - 8 courses, kind of like the Open Championship. Stay away from newer courses, stick with traditional venues. Spread it around the country. Shinnecock, Winged Foot, Oakmont, Pebble, LACC North, maybe Southern Hills. Anywhere but Pinehurst.

 

I love the US Open, the potential for it be brutal to the point of embarrassing these prima donnas.

I love the Masters, too but I just can't take the Green Jacket / Butler Cabin / tradition unlike any other / Nantz / patrons bull$hit any more.

"embarrassing the prima donas"? Do you don't want to see how good they are really? Let's say you are a scratch player. Do you want to play an event where 80 would be a great, make that a GREAT, score? If your whole event was filled with scratch players do you think a course tricked up to make 80 a good score would be a fair and true test to see which scratch was the better player?

I guess that puts us on opposite sides of the US Open test opinions.

 

For the most part they ARE prima donnas. Some of them even admit it. And I don't see anything wrong with playing in a championship where even par (or higher) is the winning score. That's part of the different nature of the two events, what differentiates one from the other. Personally, I love it when these pampered men who play golf for a living b**** and moan about the USGA's Open setup.

Don't like it? Don't play!

[King_Slender]

The horse has left the barn, turning back the ball won't solve anything. - especially if it's another bifurcated unilateral kinda thing. The only chance the USGA has is to move the U.S. Open up to early March so it's the first major on the schedule. Playing in sleet and snow would cover up the brownouts.

 

I think they can turn back the ball without too much of an issue - all they have to do is set the conforming standards and go with it. Even with the current standards you don't see guys playing those max distance golf balls that don't conform - they play what they are marketed. Heck, this weekend Day was ROUTINELY hitting drives of 350+, which is just crazy.

 

You also have to realize that dialing back the ball will affect pros far more than your regular player.

[Forged4ever]

I do agree with a 6-8 course rotation-

 

A lot has been spoken to regarding the infrastructure necessary to host a tourney and I am not speaking to the track. Forget the course-

 

From the membership side it is a HUGE undertaking-

 

I know a a past US Am and US Open Committee Chair, both for the Mens' and ladies', we started two years out with meetings.

 

That is why The Masters is so amazing because they turn around and do it again in 11 1/2 months though #1, the whole thought behind Augusta was to host this type of tourney, #2, everything about ANGC is geared and focused on this week and #3, they've been doing this for so long that they do it in their sleep on Auto Pilot.

 

I don't think that some of your big private like Oakmont and I'm sure a few of the others, want to host more than say one every 4-5 years, tops.

 

That's a real sacrifice for the club and you gotta get the membership behind you-

 

Believe me here, not everyone who paid $125k to join gives a s*** about the Tour Bois~

 

I know that our membership caused us to revisit and ultimately pass on alternating years for a four year stint with Fox Chapel Golf Club with the Senior Players Championship, which they ultimately hosted on their own.

 

I was disappointed however I was gettin calls from members that I didn't even know voicing their displeasure, lol.

 

Stay Well My Friends :)

 

All the Best,

Richard

[schiavone02]

I'm not saying this will make the tournament any better, but for the casual golf fan, I think this draws more attention:

 

1. Pebble Beach every year. To me, it's the 2nd best known course in the US & you get built in familiarity / nostalgia from the start. it doesn't hurt that the course is gettable, but tough. 18 is the perfect finishing hole (to me). You can make eagle to close the gap or put one in the Pacific if the nerves get to you.

 

2. Play the tourney in Prime Time on the East Coast

 

3. Move the tourney closer to the 4th of July. One of the nice things about the Masters is that it falls on Easter some years. You're stuck at dinner with the extended family & everyone is huddled around the TV b/c there isn't much else to do. 4th of July could be the same type of situation sitting around watching the tourney finish up while waiting for the fireworks to start. It's not an exact parallel, but it's just another avenue to get people in front of the TV.

 

Also in moving the tourney to July, the NBA Finals are over & you're only competing against the dog days of Summer in Baseball. NFL training camps haven't opened & the college football season is still 2 months from kicking off.

[Shilgy]

Realistically the US Open could just rotate through Shin, Oakmont, Merion, and maybe Winged Foot. You could talk me into pebble too.

Actually, I'm in favor of them moving it around the country. Oakland Hills, Southern Hills, Hazeltine, Medinah, Cherry Hills, Riviera, Pinehurst, Congressional... plenty of good venues. The courses don't have to be 7600-8000 yds long. Just pinch the fairways in certain spots and make the rough penal. Heck, if they ever ran some of these old courses greens at 13-14 on the stimp, some of these guys might not finish. The greens at Oakland Hills were barely at 10 for the Ryder Cup there. There are plenty of ways to make a golf course tough. But, it's the U S Open. It should be moved around so that people from all parts of the country can attend without taking a plane trip.

 

I guess I agree.....the USGA should have a rota of 6 - 8 courses, kind of like the Open Championship. Stay away from newer courses, stick with traditional venues. Spread it around the country. Shinnecock, Winged Foot, Oakmont, Pebble, LACC North, maybe Southern Hills. Anywhere but Pinehurst.

 

I love the US Open, the potential for it be brutal to the point of embarrassing these prima donnas.

I love the Masters, too but I just can't take the Green Jacket / Butler Cabin / tradition unlike any other / Nantz / patrons bull$hit any more.

"embarrassing the prima donas"? Do you don't want to see how good they are really? Let's say you are a scratch player. Do you want to play an event where 80 would be a great, make that a GREAT, score? If your whole event was filled with scratch players do you think a course tricked up to make 80 a good score would be a fair and true test to see which scratch was the better player?

I guess that puts us on opposite sides of the US Open test opinions.

 

For the most part they ARE prima donnas. Some of them even admit it. And I don't see anything wrong with playing in a championship where even par (or higher) is the winning score. That's part of the different nature of the two events, what differentiates one from the other. Personally, I love it when these pampered men who play golf for a living b**** and moan about the USGA's Open setup.

Don't like it? Don't play!

Like I said I guess that puts on opposite sides of the test options. As to them being pampered, did you have a bad week at work? Then no pay for you! That is what they go through. Sure there are a handful that have earned there endorsement income and that is less stress but for the majority of professional golfers they live on what they make on the course. And a tricked up artificially difficult course is not a test-it's a farce imo. Different story if it is just difficult and weather causes higher scores. I believe the line from an USGA official years ago was that they wanted to "identify" the best player. Nothing about stupid set ups to "embarass" them.

[duffer987]

I'm not saying this will make the tournament any better, but for the casual golf fan, I think this draws more attention:

 

1. Pebble Beach every year. To me, it's the 2nd best known course in the US & you get built in familiarity / nostalgia from the start. it doesn't hurt that the course is gettable, but tough. 18 is the perfect finishing hole (to me). You can make eagle to close the gap or put one in the Pacific if the nerves get to you.

 

2. Play the tourney in Prime Time on the East Coast

 

3. Move the tourney closer to the 4th of July. One of the nice things about the Masters is that it falls on Easter some years. You're stuck at dinner with the extended family & everyone is huddled around the TV b/c there isn't much else to do. 4th of July could be the same type of situation sitting around watching the tourney finish up while waiting for the fireworks to start. It's not an exact parallel, but it's just another avenue to get people in front of the TV.

 

Also in moving the tourney to July, the NBA Finals are over & you're only competing against the dog days of Summer in Baseball. NFL training camps haven't opened & the college football season is still 2 months from kicking off.

I don't think that would help an ardent golf viewer, let alone a casual one.

 

They already play at Pebble every year. I'd agree with others that some kind of Open rota system would be great.

 

Thurs/Sun sure. Friday/Sat night primetime? Don't they just put rubbish on at those times because people are out and about on the weekend? Can't make the theatre tonight sorry, going to watch some guys smack a white ball around a field ;)

 

So you want the U.S. Open one week and The Open Championship a fortnight later? Or move it, then move all the other tournies and have the PGA Championship after football season starts and no one cares?

 

The Masters heralds in Spring and the start of the golf season for a huge chunk of the continent, regardless of what else falls on that weekend. Golf is not football and those holidays are not Thanksgiving. No one is centering their day's activities around a golf tournament. It's summer, hopefully people have something better to do than watch tele, it's not November with cold rain or snow coming down.

[NV825]

A rotation of 8-10 classic courses around the country, and the USGA going back to their bread & butter with punishing thick rough and incredibly fast greens. That is the trademark US Open to me, just as a perfectly manicured 18 holes is the Masters to me.

 

The PGA Championship is the one that needs to re-evaluate itself, because there really isn't anything stand out to me about it every year other than the name and marketing hype. I think it would be awesome to see it become a global Major that visits some of the best courses in the world outside of the UK and USA.

[duffer987]

A rotation of 8-10 classic courses around the country, and the USGA going back to their bread & butter with punishing thick rough and incredibly fast greens. That is the trademark US Open to me, just as a perfectly manicured 18 holes is the Masters to me.

 

The PGA Championship is the one that needs to re-evaluate itself, because there really isn't anything stand out to me about it every year other than the name and marketing hype. I think it would be awesome to see it become a global Major that visits some of the best courses in the world outside of the UK and USA.

 

Agreed the PGA is the odd one out - and the one major I don't make any extra effort to watch if it's not at a cool course - but unfortunately being the tournament of the US PGA, going global would require a pretty significant change.

[megrover179]

A potential solution to the modern ball would be to let every pro play whatever ball they want, made out of whatever proprietary stuff the manufactures want to make it out of, but have them all use the same "old school", less efficient dimple pattern. Anyone like me who has a basket of old golf balls can see how the dimples have changed over the years. And they used to vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Now, through technology, they all seem to appear homogeneous. Even though it may still spin less than the old balls it wouldn't be too difficult to come up with a dimple pattern that "bites the air" a bit more. It would shorten the distance and add to the curve. We hackers could play the same ball the pro's play, just that they play a different dimple pattern. Same old marketing....same big advertising budgets.

 

Plus, they would get to sell us the Pro Ball! (at an ungodly amount of money!) See how your driving distance compares to the pros! Could possibly be a win-win situation.

[Roadking2003]

Ok, Barney has his opinions and views......

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...something-bold/

 

What are yours?

 

He's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. The USGA doesn't need to win the TV battle and professional golf doesn't need a "tour ball". Not only that, a "tour ball" would not help the USGA at all. If they want to improve their standing they should stop their fixation on par and stop playing inferior venues like Chamber's Bay.

[Sean2]

I think the US Open is the best tournament in golf, bar none. Just my opinion though.

[8602081]

I think the US Open is the best tournament in golf, bar none. Just my opinion though.

 

I agree.. I love US Open much better than Masters..

[johnnypro]

I think the US Open is the best tournament in golf, bar none. Just my opinion though.

 

I agree.. I love US Open much better than Masters..

I'm with you guys! Always loved US Open most of all. British a strong second.

[Hawkeye77]

A rotation of 8-10 classic courses around the country, and the USGA going back to their bread & butter with punishing thick rough and incredibly fast greens. That is the trademark US Open to me, just as a perfectly manicured 18 holes is the Masters to me.

 

The PGA Championship is the one that needs to re-evaluate itself, because there really isn't anything stand out to me about it every year other than the name and marketing hype. I think it would be awesome to see it become a global Major that visits some of the best courses in the world outside of the UK and USA.

 

Strongest field and darn great courses the past few years and years to come - PGA is doing fine.

 

It's not going overseas and absolutely doesn't need to.

 

 

[awil]

Every "region" of the country has a venue that can legitimately host a US Open. It is the United States Open Championship, not the coastal championship...

 

West region: Olympic, Pebble, Sahalee, Riviera, etc

East: too many to name, but The Country Club, Oakmont, Winged Foot, Bethpage

South: Southern Hills, Atlanta Athletic Club, The Ocean Course, Pinehurst

Midwest: Medinah, Whistling, Erin Hills, muirfield village, Crooked Stick,

Hazeltine

 

I guess really Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, etc are really the only areas that don't have a venue capable of hosting a major off the top of my head.

Add in a course called the harvestor in Iowa and you have a list

[awil]

A potential solution to the modern ball would be to let every pro play whatever ball they want, made out of whatever proprietary stuff the manufactures want to make it out of, but have them all use the same "old school", less efficient dimple pattern. Anyone like me who has a basket of old golf balls can see how the dimples have changed over the years. And they used to vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Now, through technology, they all seem to appear homogeneous. Even though it may still spin less than the old balls it wouldn't be too difficult to come up with a dimple pattern that "bites the air" a bit more. It would shorten the distance and add to the curve. We hackers could play the same ball the pro's play, just that they play a different dimple pattern. Same old marketing....same big advertising budgets.

 

Plus, they would get to sell us the Pro Ball! (at an ungodly amount of money!) See how your driving distance compares to the pros! Could possibly be a win-win situation.

Where things like this get dicey is high level am play , low level pro play ,college, qualifiers etc

[alfriday]

To me, the Masters has one thing going for it that the US open will never have: it's held in early April. For those of us in the frozen North, the Masters is the unofficial start to the golf season. We've been thinking about golf all winter long. The season is finally here. Excitement and anticipation are at a peak.

[oldschoolrocker]

The golf is secondary. The major concern is revenue generation. As soon as the genie got out of the bottle and purses started getting into the mega $$$$ range the whole of the "professional" sport of golf changed.

At least with "The Masters" I feel the emphasis is on the golf.

[Sira]

I think the US Open is the best tournament in golf, bar none. Just my opinion though.

 

I agree.. I love US Open much better than Masters..

I'm with you guys! Always loved US Open most of all. British a strong second.

 

Same, I prefer the British Open and US Open over the Masters, in that order. Not that all these three events should try to be something they are not though, they all have their clear identities already.

[pierso2]

Like a lot of people said, if they did a rotation that would be really helpful to gaining traction. Sadly, most of the courses with history (Oakmont, Merion, Pebble Beach, etc) are limited with space and can't expand. Also, the USGA wants to show off different and new courses and expand to areas that aren't in areas that see the PGA tour on a regular basis (Chambers Bay).

 

I'd love to see them do something like a modified rotation. Pick 6 traditional courses and then 2 would be new or not as well known. Maybe do 4 and 4? That way people get to see golfers play historic sites but also expand to new places.

 

And don't make the courses so tough that players cry. Don't make them so easy that it's a pitch and putt either but let them come in with a -10 total.

[Slackattack]

As others have more or less said, what makes the Masters so great is the fact that it is at the beginning of Spring. We've all been stuck with winter for 4-5 months and now, suddenly, we see this immaculate golf course with its beautiful azaleas and bright green perfect fairways. Throw in the history and the prestige and it's not a fair comparison.

 

All that said, the USGA hasn't done itself any favors. Their approach with Pinehurst and Chambers Bay is the complete opposite of the Masters. People don't want to see dried-out, ugly courses on TV. Sorry, but that is just reality. I think the USGA should put their focus on beautiful courses (preferably in large markets) that will attract TV viewers. They can protect par, but they should not be afraid of a champion get to -6 to -8 if the conditions are favorable.

 

As for a US Open ball? That's a preposterous idea.

[Roadking2003]

All that said, the USGA hasn't done itself any favors. Their approach with Pinehurst and Chambers Bay is the complete opposite of the Masters. People don't want to see dried-out, ugly courses on TV. Sorry, but that is just reality. I think the USGA should put their focus on beautiful courses (preferably in large markets) that will attract TV viewers. They can protect par, but they should not be afraid of a champion get to -6 to -8 if the conditions are favorable.

 

As for a US Open ball? That's a preposterous idea.

 

Yes, the USGA has had two bad years in a row. I played Pinehurst #2 three times before Crenshaw screwed it up. I'll never go back. And Chambers Bay is a total joke.

 

The USGA also needs to move the tournament around the country. Many states have never hosted an open.

 

They also need to forget about par. It's a meaningless number. If the winner shoots 280, who cares if that is even par or 14 under par or 14 over par? But they won't. For some reason they think par is sacred.

[Rangeballz]

As a Wisconsin native, I'm delighted Erin Hills will host the US Open next year. However, as it is a new course (like Chambers) I am very concerned how the USGA will prepare it and set it up, and thus how it will appear to the millions of viewers.

[kg92lefty]

A rotation of 8-10 classic courses around the country, and the USGA going back to their bread & butter with punishing thick rough and incredibly fast greens. That is the trademark US Open to me, just as a perfectly manicured 18 holes is the Masters to me.

 

The PGA Championship is the one that needs to re-evaluate itself, because there really isn't anything stand out to me about it every year other than the name and marketing hype. I think it would be awesome to see it become a global Major that visits some of the best courses in the world outside of the UK and USA.

 

Strongest field and darn great courses the past few years and years to come - PGA is doing fine.

 

It's not going overseas and absolutely doesn't need to.

 

Strongest field? 20 club pros is strong? I get there are no amateurs but I'd put my money on the ams vs the club pros.

[Psyber]

I don't see why it matters what the score is as long as everyone is playing the same course the best player that week wins. I don't really care if the winer is even or -20 really.

[Nard_S]

The beauty of the Masters is that a 6 shot lead on Saturday night is not safe. A 3 shot lead making the turn is not safe. You have to make birdies coming in or somebody might catch you.

 

For the mot part the US Open is not like that.. That is something they can emulate.

[BLLDWG23]

I don't see why it matters what the score is as long as everyone is playing the same course the best player that week wins. I don't really care if the winer is even or -20 really.

 

But unfortunately the USGA does. That is why we have had train wrecks of course setup in the past.

[KyGolf]

Par is just a number. Make the course a par 74 then everyone will go low. Still doesn't matter, low total for 72 holes wins. You guys are ripping on the USGA for par 70 courses and then hoping that the winner is 10 under. Par 4 or par 5, it is still the same hole, play it in 4 strokes and you come out 1 stroke ahead of the guy that played it in 5. The Masters is a good tournament, played in a garden with virtually no rough. The US Open is a stern test of the best in the world. I prefer the Open.

[tannyhoban]

The horse has left the barn, turning back the ball won't solve anything. - especially if it's another bifurcated unilateral kinda thing. The only chance the USGA has is to move the U.S. Open up to early March so it's the first major on the schedule. Playing in sleet and snow would cover up the brownouts.

 

I think they can turn back the ball without too much of an issue - all they have to do is set the conforming standards and go with it. Even with the current standards you don't see guys playing those max distance golf balls that don't conform - they play what they are marketed. Heck, this weekend Day was ROUTINELY hitting drives of 350+, which is just crazy.

 

You also have to realize that dialing back the ball will affect pros far more than your regular player.

 

I realize all of it perfectly. Nobody associated with Tour golf would do this without an extreme amount of pushback.