Evnroll Putters-- Amazing!!!

[troysan]

ER2 was supposed to be delivered today but required a signature. Wife was working from home and didn't answer the door :angry22: . Have to wait until tomorrow to pick up from FedEx store.

I ordered one recently and it's scheduled for delivery tomorrow for me. Shows indirect signature required so I wasn't quite sure what that meant but I guess I better answer the door tomorrow (I work from home).

 

Hope you're not napping ?

[frankthegolfnut]

My custom ordered ER7 (33", bent to 66*) is due this afternoon... hoping FedEx makes it through the blizzard!

[Maximilian]

I'm not arguing, honestly I'm just curious, but what's the difference between these and the TR grooves that Ping has been using the last few years? I know they say that Evnroll grooves make mishits roll straight as well as equally as far, and I'm not saying this isn't true, but what's the technical reason that would make mishits go straight that TR grooves is missing? They seem to have the same thinking otherwise with deeper groves in the sweetspot and flatter on the outside?

 

A big bonus that TR grooves has that I think Evnroll is missing, just by looking at the grooves, is that TR grooves also go flatter up and down the face away from the sweetspot, not just sideways. I would think people miss just as much vertically as horizontally.

[Z1ggy16]

TR grooves only help with distance control, while envroll's help with distance and direction. It's been proven with lots of non human testing with putting machines and the groove tech. does actually work. Seeing as MGS has pretty much confirmed this with about 60,000 putts via human and still these series of putters prove to help gain you more strokes than any others tested directly against.

 

I'll be able to compare head to head as I've got a Ketch is TR grooves, so it should be interesting.

[Maximilian]

Yes I know that is what they are saying, but I'm wondering what the actual difference in the grooves is, that would make mishits roll straight with an Evnroll, that TR grooves is lacking?

 

The MGS report has way to much inconsistency between 5, 10 and 20 foot putts for me to believe that pure coincidence dosen't play a huge part in their testing. The 0-Works #1 for example was rated the absolute best putter from 5 feet, the second to worst putter from 10 feet and right in the middle of the pack from 20 feet. Doesn't make sense to me. If it was rated as an awesome putter from 5 feet and horrible from 40 feet, that I could believe. Not enough difference between a 5 and a 10 foot putt for me to believe a particular putter is the best putter of the year, as long as your chip doesn't roll out just a tiny bit too far, because then you are standing with the years second to worst putter in your hand. But that's besides the point. I still would like to know what makes mishits roll straight with an Evnroll. :)

[Puttersaurus Rex]

[iiiii!!!!!iiiii]

 

Imagine the above as the grooves on the face of the Evnroll. A perfect putt will be centered on the exclamation points. If your hit is off-center, then the ball will touch varying groove widths ! and i. The "i" has a smaller groove with more face contact area.

 

The mishit is not going straight. It is "gearing" or slightly rolling off-center towards your intended line. In a way, it is adding forgiveness to putts that are not hit well. The putter is not magic...just a touch more forgiving.

[Maximilian]

Thanks, and again I'm not arguing, it sounds more negative in text, but isn't that precisely like TR grooves, with the exception that TR grooves also help a thin or "fat" putt?

[Puttersaurus Rex]

Thanks, and again I'm not arguing, it sounds more negative in text, but isn't that precisely like TR grooves, with the exception that TR grooves also help a thin or "fat" putt?

 

No worries. Yes, the idea is very similar, though executed differently. Rumor is that Ping had to change some grooves ("TR"?) due to Evnroll's patent.

 

I am not one to knock Ping's grooves or other putters. I love some "tight tuna" milling on Byron's and such, though the "science" behind the evnroll had me intrigued. First expensive putter that I bought blind, and hopefully the last.

[kb24ismvp]

i have tested the ER1 and ER2 for about 3 hours combined at golftown indoor putting, at multiple locations. i can't find a single fault in them thus far. that said i have done this sort of thing with other CB putters and once i get onto a real course, my putting was gosh darn awful.

 

i know MSG has done an extensive test, but can i get some feed back from people who have actually used it to play in a competition round or meaningful money game. how did it perform under real scenarios with big breaks small breaks, tricky downhiller, etc.

 

thanks in advance.

[braincramp52]

Thanks, and again I'm not arguing, it sounds more negative in text, but isn't that precisely like TR grooves, with the exception that TR grooves also help a thin or "fat" putt?

 

It's hard to find a bigger Ping fan than me. I've had Ping putters with the TR grooves since they came out. I can't tell you why the Evnroll rolls the ball better but it just does. I can't say that much about the gear effect but to me the distance control with the Evnroll is superior. It might be the 303 stainless but all I know is something is different.

[Z1ggy16]

Yes I know that is what they are saying, but I'm wondering what the actual difference in the grooves is, that would make mishits roll straight with an Evnroll, that TR grooves is lacking?

 

The MGS report has way to much inconsistency between 5, 10 and 20 foot putts for me to believe that pure coincidence dosen't play a huge part in their testing. The 0-Works #1 for example was rated the absolute best putter from 5 feet, the second to worst putter from 10 feet and right in the middle of the pack from 20 feet. Doesn't make sense to me. If it was rated as an awesome putter from 5 feet and horrible from 40 feet, that I could believe. Not enough difference between a 5 and a 10 foot putt for me to believe a particular putter is the best putter of the year, as long as your chip doesn't roll out just a tiny bit too far, because then you are standing with the years second to worst putter in your hand. But that's besides the point. I still would like to know what makes mishits roll straight with an Evnroll. :)

There's actually quite a difference between 5 and 10 foot putts:

 

https://thesandtrap....rcentage-stats/

 

PGA tour pro from 5ft makes 75% of his putts in 1 stroke, but just 43% of the time from 10ft. That's ~50% more likely to hole out from just 5ft closer, and that's PRO putters. Imagine now some run of the mill amateur doing the same.

 

 

With that much data taken by MGS, it's not a coincidence that a putter is dead on from 5 and not from 10, but better again from 20. There's something happening there in the design that makes lag putting and short putts easier, but 10ft harder.

[Maximilian]

I didn't mean to imply that someone wouldn't make more five footers than ten footers. Looking at the results from the MGS testing still has me convinced that coincidence plays a huge part, but that really is a different topic and I fully accept that people are loving their Evnroll's, I'm just trying to figure out what makes these so great.

 

I found this video which actually shows that the gearing effect is real, which is very cool! Unfortunately, it also shows that the actual sweet spot is not in the middle of the face, which is kinda sloppy on a high-end putter like this. Wonder if the ER2 is different and that is the reason why most folks seem to prefer the ER2 over the ER1?

 

[Icemanzacw]

i have tested the ER1 and ER2 for about 3 hours combined at golftown indoor putting, at multiple locations. i can't find a single fault in them thus far. that said i have done this sort of thing with other CB putters and once i get onto a real course, my putting was gosh darn awful.

 

i know MSG has done an extensive test, but can i get some feed back from people who have actually used it to play in a competition round or meaningful money game. how did it perform under real scenarios with big breaks small breaks, tricky downhiller, etc.

 

thanks in advance.

 

If these are Counterbalanced, and 370g at 34". What is he downside of pulling the CB grip and going with a super stroke? Lack of feel / distance control? Will these have to remain counterbalanced for life? If I'm not a counterbalanced guy should I cross these off the list?

[braincramp52]

i have tested the ER1 and ER2 for about 3 hours combined at golftown indoor putting, at multiple locations. i can't find a single fault in them thus far. that said i have done this sort of thing with other CB putters and once i get onto a real course, my putting was gosh darn awful.

 

i know MSG has done an extensive test, but can i get some feed back from people who have actually used it to play in a competition round or meaningful money game. how did it perform under real scenarios with big breaks small breaks, tricky downhiller, etc.

 

thanks in advance.

 

If these are Counterbalanced, and 370g at 34". What is he downside of pulling the CB grip and going with a super stroke? Lack of feel / distance control? Will these have to remain counterbalanced for life? If I'm not a counterbalanced guy should I cross these off the list?

 

I got the smaller pistol grip on mine and it's not counterbalanced. I would not cross them off of any list.

[Maximilian]

For some people, counter balancing makes the putter feel lighter since the swing weight goes down, for others, the whole putter just seems heavier since the total weight goes up. It depends a lot on what muscles you use in your stroke. An arm swinger will most likely feel overall weight more that a core muscle user, but that's not necessarily always the truth. A counter balanced putter can also add some additional release of the head for some people.

 

370g may very well work for you without any counter balancing, but it's hard to guess. I personally really wish they would have made at least one lighter option.

[Smitty1304]

Finally showed up today

[bhj83]

I didn't mean to imply that someone wouldn't make more five footers than ten footers. Looking at the results from the MGS testing still has me convinced that coincidence plays a huge part, but that really is a different topic and I fully accept that people are loving their Evnroll's, I'm just trying to figure out what makes these so great.

 

I found this video which actually shows that the gearing effect is real, which is very cool! Unfortunately, it also shows that the actual sweet spot is not in the middle of the face, which is kinda sloppy on a high-end putter like this. Wonder if the ER2 is different and that is the reason why most folks seem to prefer the ER2 over the ER1?

Very cool! It's nice to see the numbers like that. Now does anyone know of a similar review for a non Evnroll putter so we can see the real impact this putter can have?

[RRPro1]

Can you only try these out at PGA superstore? Any other chain carry them?

[vwgolfer]

The er2 reminds me of the piretti potenza ext. a putter that I stupidly sold for next to nothing. Dumb me. Both made of 303. Guess I will have to buy a er2.

[Icemanzacw]

i have tested the ER1 and ER2 for about 3 hours combined at golftown indoor putting, at multiple locations. i can't find a single fault in them thus far. that said i have done this sort of thing with other CB putters and once i get onto a real course, my putting was gosh darn awful.

 

i know MSG has done an extensive test, but can i get some feed back from people who have actually used it to play in a competition round or meaningful money game. how did it perform under real scenarios with big breaks small breaks, tricky downhiller, etc.

 

thanks in advance.

 

If these are Counterbalanced, and 370g at 34". What is he downside of pulling the CB grip and going with a super stroke? Lack of feel / distance control? Will these have to remain counterbalanced for life? If I'm not a counterbalanced guy should I cross these off the list?

 

I got the smaller pistol grip on mine and it's not counterbalanced. I would not cross them off of any list.

 

Do you know if the head still same weight (33-385, 34-370, 35-355)?

[braincramp52]

i have tested the ER1 and ER2 for about 3 hours combined at golftown indoor putting, at multiple locations. i can't find a single fault in them thus far. that said i have done this sort of thing with other CB putters and once i get onto a real course, my putting was gosh darn awful.

 

i know MSG has done an extensive test, but can i get some feed back from people who have actually used it to play in a competition round or meaningful money game. how did it perform under real scenarios with big breaks small breaks, tricky downhiller, etc.

 

thanks in advance.

 

If these are Counterbalanced, and 370g at 34". What is he downside of pulling the CB grip and going with a super stroke? Lack of feel / distance control? Will these have to remain counterbalanced for life? If I'm not a counterbalanced guy should I cross these off the list?

 

I got the smaller pistol grip on mine and it's not counterbalanced. I would not cross them off of any list.

 

Do you know if the head still same weight (33-385, 34-370, 35-355)?

 

I ordered mine before they were actually producing LH models. I initially ordered a 34",370 gram ER2. Travis emailed me back and said the 370 gram heads weren't available quite yet but the 355 gram heads were. I like smaller grips anyway so we decided a 355 gram head with the pistol grip would even things up and he was right. It feels great as a 34",355 gram putter

[Z1ggy16]

I didn't mean to imply that someone wouldn't make more five footers than ten footers. Looking at the results from the MGS testing still has me convinced that coincidence plays a huge part, but that really is a different topic and I fully accept that people are loving their Evnroll's, I'm just trying to figure out what makes these so great.

 

I found this video which actually shows that the gearing effect is real, which is very cool! Unfortunately, it also shows that the actual sweet spot is not in the middle of the face, which is kinda sloppy on a high-end putter like this. Wonder if the ER2 is different and that is the reason why most folks seem to prefer the ER2 over the ER1?

Well, it's not that the "sweet spot" isn't in the middle, it's that the COG is sliiiightly closer to the heel in that model. I mean.... almost no driver (actually, I don't think any?) have the COG directly behind the "sweet spot", so is that actually that important? Having the COG slightly heel bias will help you get the face square at impact and release it better, if anything. On the whole, I don't think having the COG 1/8'' closer to the heel or whatever it is, matters that much.

[bhj83]

I received mine yesterday, however I ordered the standard 34" and received a 34" with the 355g head. Guess I'll be contacting them about not receiving the 370g.

[Puttersaurus Rex]

I received mine yesterday, however I ordered the standard 34" and received a 34" with the 355g head. Guess I'll be contacting them about not receiving the 370g.

 

It would be worth a call to Evnroll. They may have switched the weights of the heads with the lengths, since they are no longer counterbalancing the putters. If the new grip is lighter than the old one with the counterbalance, then they do not need to offer the heavier head. The most important factor is if it works for you as is.

[Maximilian]

I didn't mean to imply that someone wouldn't make more five footers than ten footers. Looking at the results from the MGS testing still has me convinced that coincidence plays a huge part, but that really is a different topic and I fully accept that people are loving their Evnroll's, I'm just trying to figure out what makes these so great.

 

I found this video which actually shows that the gearing effect is real, which is very cool! Unfortunately, it also shows that the actual sweet spot is not in the middle of the face, which is kinda sloppy on a high-end putter like this. Wonder if the ER2 is different and that is the reason why most folks seem to prefer the ER2 over the ER1?

Well, it's not that the "sweet spot" isn't in the middle, it's that the COG is sliiiightly closer to the heel in that model. I mean.... almost no driver (actually, I don't think any?) have the COG directly behind the "sweet spot", so is that actually that important? Having the COG slightly heel bias will help you get the face square at impact and release it better, if anything. On the whole, I don't think having the COG 1/8'' closer to the heel or whatever it is, matters that much.

It's been ages since putter makers prided themselves by being able to place the sight line or dot directly at the COG. They spent five years developing this putter and with all the modern tools available to them, yes I do think it's sloppy that they missed this. For the price they are asking for this, non-customisable putter, I do think we should expect them to not miss on these relatively simple, yet for me at least, important details. They have obviously created a very cool face and I don't think many non-professionals would ever notice this, but it still bothers me a bit.

 

Same thing with the new Spider Tour putters. They created these very cool super stable and balanced putters that they are asking a lot of money for, but still send them out the door way out of spec. Odyssey and others have done this too in many of their lines, but they are not asking for this kind of money either, so it doesn't bother me the same way. But that's just me I guess. I still really want to demo both of these on a real green eventually.

[Z1ggy16]

^^ All in all, I don't think COG right behind the sight line matters a ton. COG isn't directly behind the line up markings for drivers, and you hit those with much more force and speed than your putter. With all Rife knows about putters and their design, I would bet money the placement of COG in his mind is just fine where it is. Lack of customization for the price is somewhat justified for now due to low production. I'm sure that if enough people wanted customization like engravings etc, they could do that in the future pretty easily. FWIW, Toulon putters cost just as much and often more than Evnrolls, and Edel are just as much, too (speaking to customizable brands).

 

Perhaps find/buy a putter with COG directly behind the line up sights (not sure how you even determine this on readily?), and then try a few Evnrolls and see which you get on best with. Lastly, if the COG is slightly heel biased in that model, I'm sure a little lead tape or weld bead on the toe side could help adjust that closer to the middle if you so felt inclined.

 

I'm not sure what you mean "out of spec" in that case. Do you mean weight, lie, lofts? Either way, it depends on the severity of whatever you're talking about, but al QC has ranges as to what's acceptable. I'm sure if you ordered a 370g putter from TM or Odyssey and you measured the head to be outside of 10% spec for example, they'd take it back and fix it. Small variances are expected in the manf. process from everybody... It's just how it works. That's why it's up to us to check our clubs when we get them and hold these companies responsible for their workmanship.

[Maximilian]

And I agree I don't think it really matters for most people in this case, I just find it odd and a bit of a shame. If I were to buy one of these (not impossible at all), I would still try to avoid the ER1 just because in my head I would know this and always aim for the heel side. If you try a perfectly balanced putter like a T.P. Mills and compare it to a not so perfectly balanced putter of the same shape, you can notice the difference even if you can't put your finger on it. I'm taking an educated guess this might be the reason why so many people that have tried all of these, tend to choose the ER2 over the ER1. Just looking at the head shapes, I would have guessed the ER1 would have been the more popular model. They have also needed to fix the sound on the Fang model, which to me just shows they may have released these a bit too early. I think they might have been too excited about the face, that they forgot the basic things in the process.

 

Regarding the Spider putters, read the thread here if you want to know. I have held six of them in hand, five turned severely open when soled, one sat square. A lot of people seem to think that people are just imagining this or holding them at different lie angles, but anyone who has tried several of them know that they all sit very differently from each other. Some are sent out with no loft, others with grips turned several degrees to the side, paint issues with some and weights falling off others. In my opinion, it's too expensive a putter for these things to be happening for me not to be bother by it.

[Z1ggy16]

The sound issue I agree with, just a horrible sound to it. Looks like they are getting that fixed though... Although maybe Rife or whoever was in charge of that model liked the ting? Who knows, but they've obviously listened now to the market demand to get rid of that.

 

That's really too bad, and def sounds like a QC issue and a potential design problem with the weights. Honestly, I am really starting to get weary of TM anything these days with the way the business is going. It's been said they will "never" shut down, so that means r&d goes bye bye, and a lot of employees might lose their job. Short cuts will get taken and quality (as you've just pointed out) will go down. I'm completely dissatisfied with my M1 right now, I'm minutes away from selling it.

[bhj83]

I received mine yesterday, however I ordered the standard 34" and received a 34" with the 355g head. Guess I'll be contacting them about not receiving the 370g.

 

It would be worth a call to Evnroll. They may have switched the weights of the heads with the lengths, since they are no longer counterbalancing the putters. If the new grip is lighter than the old one with the counterbalance, then they do not need to offer the heavier head. The most important factor is if it works for you as is.

I contacted them and they're going to send me the 370g putter. I guess now I'll have a day or so to compare the two to see which works better for me since I bought this thing blind haha!

[Maximilian]

Ok this is my last post on the COG thing, I promise! I see the ER1 used to be advertised as having 20* toe hang, but now it's advertised as having 30* toe hang. Wonder if they moved the shaft entrance back towards the heel in order to solve the COG?