Should Topic Title Be: Tiger Is Done, or Is Tiger Done?

[WeekendWarrior1]

I really hope Tiger isn't done. I am 26 years old so i grew up watching Tiger Woods and so I am a Tiger fan. It sucks to watch him play like he has let alone watch him navigate the course on foot and try to crawl out of bunkers. First and foremost I am a GOLF fan and like a lot of these other younger golfers in the game, but growing up watching Tiger at a young age made golf what it is for me to this day. We all feel pressure at some point during a competitive round and I am sure he is feeling pressure as well. Could only help to with all the media coverage, fans, expectation etc. I just hope his health is good enough for maybe one more win and a battle with some of our top golfers of this era.

[jay65]

I really hope Tiger isn't done. I am 26 years old so i grew up watching Tiger Woods and so I am a Tiger fan. It sucks to watch him play like he has let alone watch him navigate the course on foot and try to crawl out of bunkers. First and foremost I am a GOLF fan and like a lot of these other younger golfers in the game, but growing up watching Tiger at a young age made golf what it is for me to this day. We all feel pressure at some point during a competitive round and I am sure he is feeling pressure as well. Could only help to with all the media coverage, fans, expectation etc. I just hope his health is good enough for maybe one more win and a battle with some of our top golfers of this era.

 

I grew up being in awe of Nicklaus and Watson at Turnberry in 1977, both of those guys are 'done' as far as top level golf, and I have survived. So don't be saddened by the fact that Woods is well past his best. Like me, you'll get over it. :taunt:

[Holy Moses]

He did things that made his life off the course completely fall apart, and his game followed suit. I think he's done

 

Last year's long article on Earl Woods' relationship with Tiger was great. If Earl hadn't died, Tiger might have had the career we thought he could have had.

[Joe85]

He did things that made his life off the course completely fall apart, and his game followed suit. I think he's done

. If Earl hadn't died, Tiger might have had the career we thought he could have had.

 

 

Are you being sarcastic?

 

I don't know how much better Tiger could have been outside of his '09 loss to Yang he was 14 for 14 in majors he led going into Sunday. Not even considering all the regular Tour events he won.

[jay65]

He did things that made his life off the course completely fall apart, and his game followed suit. I think he's done

 

Last year's long article on Earl Woods' relationship with Tiger was great. If Earl hadn't died, Tiger might have had the career we thought he could have had.

 

Finally, somebody has nailed it! Although 14 Majors isn't too bad, I know what you meant by your statement. :taunt:

[North Butte]

My prediction is in another generation or so, top golfers who continue to play at a high level in their late 30's and early 40's will be view as freaks of nature. Just look at the way guys like Rory, Jason Day, Justin Thomas and these other young guns swing the club. They are abusing their body far beyond a sustainable level just as surely as baseball pitchers or pro football players. The norm will develop that it's nothing extraordinary to win a first Tour even around around 20 years old and to be done with winning majors by the time you're 32 or 33 just because of the wear and tear.

[ago33]

If tiger was a race horse, he would be shot

[WeekendWarrior1]

I really hope Tiger isn't done. I am 26 years old so i grew up watching Tiger Woods and so I am a Tiger fan. It sucks to watch him play like he has let alone watch him navigate the course on foot and try to crawl out of bunkers. First and foremost I am a GOLF fan and like a lot of these other younger golfers in the game, but growing up watching Tiger at a young age made golf what it is for me to this day. We all feel pressure at some point during a competitive round and I am sure he is feeling pressure as well. Could only help to with all the media coverage, fans, expectation etc. I just hope his health is good enough for maybe one more win and a battle with some of our top golfers of this era.

 

I grew up being in awe of Nicklaus and Watson at Turnberry in 1977, both of those guys are 'done' as far as top level golf, and I have survived. So don't be saddened by the fact that Woods is well past his best. Like me, you'll get over it. :taunt:

 

.I enjoy watching all of these better golfers every week. I was just stating the fact that it would be cool to watch him capture another W and battle it our with some of the best in the world now! That's all. Him winning/not playing well/not playing at all doesn't effect my day to day routine. I appreciate the words of encouragement though lol (on the inside I'll be a bit saddened haha)

[Holy Moses]

He did things that made his life off the course completely fall apart, and his game followed suit. I think he's done

. If Earl hadn't died, Tiger might have had the career we thought he could have had.

 

 

Are you being sarcastic?

 

I don't know how much better Tiger could have been outside of his '09 loss to Yang he was 14 for 14 in majors he led going into Sunday. Not even considering all the regular Tour events he won.

 

Most everyone thought Tiger would easily beat Jack's 18 majors

[Lefty_3Jack]

Ok say it's all physical and move on. I don't need to hear that he is mentally fragile like a lot of people who never suffered setbacks or defeat most of their career (see Ronda Rousey). Tiger cannot handle the idea of not being perfect so he quits. Go ahead and hammer me for stating the obvious.

 

So keep on with the idea that this is 100% physical and come to the realization that you cannot be on the course and be done with it. There is no reason to be out there and withdraw every time you risk shooting 80.

[Jooma]

Cannot understand TaylorMade signing up Tiger, the same mistake as M1 and M2 of 2017. He is gone for good this time. Jack can sleep in peace.

[North Butte]

I made the comment back when he won his fourth Masters that I thought he could possibly beat Jack's major record but he'd better not count on playing until he was 46 to get it done. At that point he was halfway to 18 and still in his 20's. I figured he had at most ten more years of top-level play in him and that ought to be enough to get ten more majors.

 

I was in retrospect pretty optimistic. For years later was at 14 and 14 is where he finished.

[Lefty_3Jack]

My prediction is in another generation or so, top golfers who continue to play at a high level in their late 30's and early 40's will be view as freaks of nature. Just look at the way guys like Rory, Jason Day, Justin Thomas and these other young guns swing the club. They are abusing their body far beyond a sustainable level just as surely as baseball pitchers or pro football players. The norm will develop that it's nothing extraordinary to win a first Tour even around around 20 years old and to be done with winning majors by the time you're 32 or 33 just because of the wear and tear.

J

 

Yea Jack Nicklaus, Greg Norman, Tom Watson, insert and other star from the 70's didn't swing hard and "abuse" their bodies with those Revese C swings....

[North Butte]

My prediction is in another generation or so, top golfers who continue to play at a high level in their late 30's and early 40's will be view as freaks of nature. Just look at the way guys like Rory, Jason Day, Justin Thomas and these other young guns swing the club. They are abusing their body far beyond a sustainable level just as surely as baseball pitchers or pro football players. The norm will develop that it's nothing extraordinary to win a first Tour even around around 20 years old and to be done with winning majors by the time you're 32 or 33 just because of the wear and tear.

J

 

Yea Jack Nicklaus, Greg Norman, Tom Watson, insert and other star from the 70's didn't swing hard and "abuse" their bodies with those Revese C swings....

 

They certainly did that. I cringe every time I see one of those old videos. But they used all that leg action to spread out the force while the modern guys are doing the exact opposite, very efficiently building up speed and force to a concentrated quick peak. Pound for pound little guys like Rory and J. Thomas are also far stronger and faster than the 70's superstars. Stronger and faster, more concentrated but the same bones and connective tissue to absorb the force.

[Holy Moses]

Cannot understand TaylorMade signing up Tiger, the same mistake as M1 and M2 of 2017. He is gone for good this time. Jack can sleep in peace.

 

It was a good risk to take. I'm sure they have insurance on him or an injury clause, but no one moves the needle like Tiger so you can't really reject him if he wants to sign a deal with you.

[Joe85]

He did things that made his life off the course completely fall apart, and his game followed suit. I think he's done

. If Earl hadn't died, Tiger might have had the career we thought he could have had.

 

 

Are you being sarcastic?

 

I don't know how much better Tiger could have been outside of his '09 loss to Yang he was 14 for 14 in majors he led going into Sunday. Not even considering all the regular Tour events he won.

 

Most everyone thought Tiger would easily beat Jack's 18 majors

 

 

I guess. I honestly thought he was going to win 21 or 22 majors when it was all said and done (no lie).

 

 

If that's what you're referring to..

[Prut]

I thought he should have quit after hitting that putt on number 4 yesterday. It was the worst I've ever seen a professional golfer hit in my life. European tour camera work is so bad I had to rewind it three times to figure out what they hell he had done or was trying to do.

[bazinky]

My prediction is in another generation or so, top golfers who continue to play at a high level in their late 30's and early 40's will be view as freaks of nature. Just look at the way guys like Rory, Jason Day, Justin Thomas and these other young guns swing the club. They are abusing their body far beyond a sustainable level just as surely as baseball pitchers or pro football players. The norm will develop that it's nothing extraordinary to win a first Tour even around around 20 years old and to be done with winning majors by the time you're 32 or 33 just because of the wear and tear.

 

I actually think what is likely to happen is that you are going to see more players who quit the game early due to injury. Those with the genetics to support it will actually be able to compete at a high level longer than previous generations due to better training methods.

 

The tour really needs to have a longer off-season. I think that would go a long to increasing the longevity of a lot of players.

[Shilgy]

My prediction is in another generation or so, top golfers who continue to play at a high level in their late 30's and early 40's will be view as freaks of nature. Just look at the way guys like Rory, Jason Day, Justin Thomas and these other young guns swing the club. They are abusing their body far beyond a sustainable level just as surely as baseball pitchers or pro football players. The norm will develop that it's nothing extraordinary to win a first Tour even around around 20 years old and to be done with winning majors by the time you're 32 or 33 just because of the wear and tear.

J

 

Yea Jack Nicklaus, Greg Norman, Tom Watson, insert and other star from the 70's didn't swing hard and "abuse" their bodies with those Revese C swings....

Watson was ........33 when he won his last major.

[Holy Moses]

My prediction is in another generation or so, top golfers who continue to play at a high level in their late 30's and early 40's will be view as freaks of nature. Just look at the way guys like Rory, Jason Day, Justin Thomas and these other young guns swing the club. They are abusing their body far beyond a sustainable level just as surely as baseball pitchers or pro football players. The norm will develop that it's nothing extraordinary to win a first Tour even around around 20 years old and to be done with winning majors by the time you're 32 or 33 just because of the wear and tear.

 

I actually think what is likely to happen is that you are going to see more players who quit the game early due to injury. Those with the genetics to support it will actually be able to compete at a high level longer than previous generations due to better training methods.

 

The tour really needs to have a longer off-season. I think that would go a long to increasing the longevity of a lot of players.

 

No one is forcing these guys to play year round. No Ryder Cup points are awarded. Yeah you might get behind in FedEx Cup points, but the great players make that up.

[Bama1981]

Yes he is done. D.O.N.E. - Done!! Hang em up before he starts to embarrass himself. He had a great run

[Holy Moses]

[North Butte]

My prediction is in another generation or so, top golfers who continue to play at a high level in their late 30's and early 40's will be view as freaks of nature. Just look at the way guys like Rory, Jason Day, Justin Thomas and these other young guns swing the club. They are abusing their body far beyond a sustainable level just as surely as baseball pitchers or pro football players. The norm will develop that it's nothing extraordinary to win a first Tour even around around 20 years old and to be done with winning majors by the time you're 32 or 33 just because of the wear and tear.

 

I actually think what is likely to happen is that you are going to see more players who quit the game early due to injury. Those with the genetics to support it will actually be able to compete at a high level longer than previous generations due to better training methods.

 

The tour really needs to have a longer off-season. I think that would go a long to increasing the longevity of a lot of players.

 

No one is forcing these guys to play year round. No Ryder Cup points are awarded. Yeah you might get behind in FedEx Cup points, but the great players make that up.

 

That's another possibility. Given the amount of money that accrues by the time you've won a few Tour events and your first major it may become the norm to go into full body-saving mode in ones mid-late 20's. Take three months a year off totally, play the bare minimum required number of events during the main part of the year.

[maowv]

Since this thread is asking for uninformed opinions, ...

 

1) Anyone who has had back surgery (or multiple back surgeries) can likely support what I've experienced. It's never the same. Your back can improve, pain can be relieved, but it never feels the same as it did before. Even if I don't feel "pain" I still feel something that is different. I'm aware of it. It's always there. And just being aware of it makes it really hard to ignore. Imagine standing on a tee box, about to swing a driver as hard as he does and just wondering - is this going to be the swing that it happens? Spinal surgery is no easy recovery and to then come back and put that level or rotational stress on the spine ...

 

2) There's a mental component to this also. He's thinking about the back and whether it will hold up. Like I said above, if you feel it then you are aware of it and being aware of a back problem standing on the tee box likely makes it really tough to let it go. We've all tried to guide a driver down the fairway when we aren't swinging well and are afraid of where it might go. Those swings tend to turn out poorly and go places we tried to avoid. I know my best swings are the ones where I'm not thinking about anything negative, when I just know it's going where I want and I want to hit the next shot before I lose that confidence. I don't see a Tiger that looks like he has that belief.

 

3) Another mental aspect is self-doubt and every athlete has it - even Tiger Woods. He hasn't played great golf in a very long time. He's over the dreaded 40 threshold. He's been injured several times. He's suffered a massive fall from grace. There is an element of self-doubt rambling around in his head. Until around age 32, I never saw anything from him to indicate he ever doubted himself. Now, his body language screams it. He's frustrated, he's uncertain and he doesn't know if he can ever be Tiger Woods again.

 

In his prime, he was the best I've ever seen and probably the best there ever was. That guy has a lot to going on both physically and mentally - and he has to win both sides of that before we ever see him compete for another win. Now, he's also battling that undefeated foe, Father Time.

 

He's great for the game and the game needs him so I hope he can do it. However, the odds look increasingly long.

[uubu11dog]

Throwing this out there.... I don't think he cares to be as good as he was. To much work, to much pain, to much pressure

[Albiemanmike]

Ok say it's all physical and move on. I don't need to hear that he is mentally fragile like a lot of people who never suffered setbacks or defeat most of their career (see Ronda Rousey). Tiger cannot handle the idea of not being perfect so he quits. Go ahead and hammer me for stating the obvious.

 

So keep on with the idea that this is 100% physical and come to the realization that you cannot be on the course and be done with it. There is no reason to be out there and withdraw every time you risk shooting 80.

 

Finally someone who is using their head. I think his physical issues are really minor compared to his mental hurdles. This dude was THE GUY for a very very long time. The one everyone drooled all over both on and off the course. Now he is just another guy on tour who is trying to make cuts and get his game back. That is by far a much greater hurdle to overcome than any of his physical issues. He has worked out and kept himself in tip top shape his entire life and probably even more so now because of his back issues.

 

I am willing to bet that his sudden back spasms and subsequent withdrawal were more a result of his mental state than his physical. He needs to become comfortable with who he is NOW not who he was 10 years ago. If he can come to grips with his current level of play than I believe there is a lot more of Tiger to come. If however he cannot reign in his personal mental demons I fear that he will struggle to find anything resembling a competitive golf game. That would really be a huge disappointment for the game of golf in general. Golf is so much better off and exciting with Tiger involved than without him in the picture. If he ratchets down the ego and expectations and allows himself to rekindle what Earl cultivated in him I optimistically think he could become competitive again barring any further health issues/injuries. The Hero World Challenge not withstanding he looked as though he was having an internal struggle within himself during the The Farmers at Torrey. His swing certainly didn't look confident like it did at the Hero and regardless whether you want to admit it or not he looked stiff and forced as well as not happy at Torrey Pines.

[Lefty_3Jack]

My prediction is in another generation or so, top golfers who continue to play at a high level in their late 30's and early 40's will be view as freaks of nature. Just look at the way guys like Rory, Jason Day, Justin Thomas and these other young guns swing the club. They are abusing their body far beyond a sustainable level just as surely as baseball pitchers or pro football players. The norm will develop that it's nothing extraordinary to win a first Tour even around around 20 years old and to be done with winning majors by the time you're 32 or 33 just because of the wear and tear.

J

 

Yea Jack Nicklaus, Greg Norman, Tom Watson, insert and other star from the 70's didn't swing hard and "abuse" their bodies with those Revese C swings....

Watson was ........33 when he won his last major.

He went to a playoff for a major at 59 too. He can play two tourneys in a row and not withdraw nor risk shooting an 80 in his mid-sixties. He has won a senior tour event in his 60's. Do you believe Tiger Woods could win a senior event at 41-42?

[dodger]

A 15 hour airplane ride is not the best thing for someone with back issues. If he limits his travel he would have a much better chance at golfing without pain. Tough turning down that appearance money.

[Holy Moses]

[Lefty_3Jack]

Since this thread is asking for uninformed opinions, ...

 

1) Anyone who has had back surgery (or multiple back surgeries) can likely support what I've experienced. It's never the same. Your back can improve, pain can be relieved, but it never feels the same as it did before. Even if I don't feel "pain" I still feel something that is different. I'm aware of it. It's always there. And just being aware of it makes it really hard to ignore. Imagine standing on a tee box, about to swing a driver as hard as he does and just wondering - is this going to be the swing that it happens? Spinal surgery is no easy recovery and to then come back and put that level or rotational stress on the spine ...

 

2) There's a mental component to this also. He's thinking about the back and whether it will hold up. Like I said above, if you feel it then you are aware of it and being aware of a back problem standing on the tee box likely makes it really tough to let it go. We've all tried to guide a driver down the fairway when we aren't swinging well and are afraid of where it might go. Those swings tend to turn out poorly and go places we tried to avoid. I know my best swings are the ones where I'm not thinking about anything negative, when I just know it's going where I want and I want to hit the next shot before I lose that confidence. I don't see a Tiger that looks like he has that belief.

 

3) Another mental aspect is self-doubt and every athlete has it - even Tiger Woods. He hasn't played great golf in a very long time. He's over the dreaded 40 threshold. He's been injured several times. He's suffered a massive fall from grace. There is an element of self-doubt rambling around in his head. Until around age 32, I never saw anything from him to indicate he ever doubted himself. Now, his body language screams it. He's frustrated, he's uncertain and he doesn't know if he can ever be Tiger Woods again.

 

In his prime, he was the best I've ever seen and probably the best there ever was. That guy has a lot to going on both physically and mentally - and he has to win both sides of that before we ever see him compete for another win. Now, he's also battling that undefeated foe, Father Time.

 

He's great for the game and the game needs him so I hope he can do it. However, the odds look increasingly long.

Well thought out post.