Should Topic Title Be: Tiger Is Done, or Is Tiger Done?

[DrSchteeve]

Thanks to this guy.

 

Here is a good look in slo mo. Driver at 1:10.

 

On the range but it looks ok to me. Sort of. Legs look weak. What say the technical experts.

 

 

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No expert at all - that's been hashed out enough in this thread - but what I see is restricted hip rotation in the backswing. You can really see the differences if you go look at down-the-line videos of his 2005-2008 swings. Even more importantly, in the Dubai swing on the downswing and follow through the hips are almost following the shoulder turn and arm swing, not firing and leading them. Again, dramatic difference when you see the older swings where his hips fire first (as they should).

 

This isn't surprising with the known low back issues, but that swing sure looks ordinary now (in a bad way).

[bPol]

I'm sticking to the theory that he's afraid to hurt himself again. That's why he looks so stiff and why everyone says he looks like he's in pain - because he knows doing that was the only way to STOP the pain when it was there. So he's reverting to those same pain-free movements as a precautionary measure. Once he gets a few tourneys in and starts to realize he can swing without hurting the back, he'll start to swing smoother and get his game back.

We need to remember that he hasn't played competitive golf in years, and the last rounds that he played, his back was screwed. Those are his most recent memories, so he just needs to get over the hurdle.

On another note, he's not even in last place (yet). That should be seen as a positive. Everyone expects him to magically be the old Tiger again since he blew everyone's minds when he was at the top of his game. And he continuously blew everyone's minds over and over, so everyone expects that he's gonna blow their minds in this comeback. Let the guy have a normal performance for once. I would kill to be +5 in Dubai right now.

To prove I'm not super overly biased towards him (yeah right), I will say that the 65 he shot at the Hero was a fluke. He was the first person out that day before crowds were there, AND he was playing by himself. That's so different than the typical Tiger spotlight, it was basically like playing a practice round at your home course.

I hope he can learn to bring that attitude and atmosphere to the rest of his tourneys though!

 

Ok novel over, let me know if you want to publish it.

[playa]

The walking is due to his motor patterns that have adapted to the pain and post op recovery, and it doesn't seem 100%.

 

Like I said in another thread, scar tissue and muscle inhibitions/altered motor patterns happen after a surgery and injury, and he probably still has the ongoing issue that caused his herniated discs in the first place, which could be a short leg.

 

So his body is adapting and he seems to walk gingerly because muscle tension is asymmetric and motor patterns are not like pre surgery.

 

Doesn't mean he's in pain, but he looks scared of another injury, like when he stepped in and out of that bunker.

 

But if he has a short leg, he should be scared.

Wasn't it his short leg that got him into all this trouble to start with?

 

Boom baby!

[Bingo1976]

It's raining in Dubai - the sky is crying for Tiger!

[CallTaylor]

I think Tiger has withdrawn with a "back injury". I wish I could believe that was the issue

[Dave230]

No other player who is currently playing at his level has the media presence ans scrutiny he has. I feel bad for the guy.

 

It's because of the people though, sure the media could choose to not cover him so much, but it's been proven that more people are interested in him. You put up a video of Tiger Woods getting a birdie en route to an 80 and it could get more likes than the player that wins. Sad but true.

 

The one thing the media could stop doing is showing videos of him from his peak constantly. Like Skratch TV, the social media focused channel of the PGA Tour, has this thing called Tiger Tuesdays, which shows him hits shots from his peak. Great for them, because it evokes nostalgia and brings in a lot of views. But it also means that people blur the line between old Tiger and new Tiger, causing people to expect old Tiger to show up. When apart from 18 months from 2012-2013, he hasn't done it at anywhere near that level for what is 7-8 years now, which is a long time in sport.

[SurfDuffer]

Tiger has withdrawn due to back spasms. I knew it when I saw the tee shot on one yesterday. That was not a frustration grimace.....that was pain. He also played a number of shots with a sawed off finish where a full finish swing was in order.

[Featherbed Bent]

goodnight sweet prince

 

 

[AmazinBlue]

Okay. Can we all finally admit the truth. The emperor has no clothes! Tiger is finished. To all his apologists and fanboys; please admit water is wet and Tiger is JUST DONE! Can we now move along and watch the best players in the world that are ACTUALLY PLAYING GOLF?

[golfho50]

He has been done for several years. The Nile is not just a river in Africa. Golf media

is just as delusional as he is because tiger brings $. He could not come close to winning

on Web.com tour. Back spasms and "glutes tightened" excuses only come when he is playing like crap

if he was actually honest and said i can no longer compete my game is gone i would have

a little respect for the second best (so far) golfer of all time.

 

Its quite amusing to watch the denial and delusion in the interviews about how well i hit it

and i am close, etc...LOL. Pass the popcorn.

[sumadoggie]

done. four prong. three prong. two prong BBQ style. stick a fork in him...

[Holy Moses]

Tiger has withdrawn due to back spasms. I knew it when I saw the tee shot on one yesterday. That was not a frustration grimace.....that was pain. He also played a number of shots with a sawed off finish where a full finish swing was in order.

 

Tiger can't even admit he wasn't in pain during round 1. In Steiny's Sean Spicer moment today, he said Tiger's back started giving him pain after dinner.

[Bob57]

Someone even more frightened by the constant back problems is Mark (DUI) Steinberg.. There goes his cash cow. He just signed up with Monster drink, TaylorMade, Bridgestone. What great business decisions those were by those companies. What a bunch of crap it is a back spasm that happened after dinner. He had pain from the first tee shot yesterday. Couldn't get out of a bunker without using his sand wedge like a mountain climbing pick axe. If joey was there he would have grabbed the club to help him out, instead he buried the head in the ground and pulled himself out. Obvious grimace after he extracted the head from the ground. Just not buying spasm after dinner, more like pain after first shot that got worse all day.

[Need2golfalot]

He's a liar, ask his ex-wife. Looked to be in pain fist round and looked to be on narcotic pain meds.

 

He won't officially retire yet. Going to schedule appearances then cancel or withdraw. The media loves to build him up and bash him at the same time. His brand is worth too much for him to go away. Too bad because there are so many good players they could talk about.

 

 

[PGArox]

Man, I just don't know what to say, except ...

 

 

 

 

GO PHIL! :)

[moegolfer11]

He's a liar, ask his ex-wife. Looked to be in pain fist round and looked to be on narcotic pain meds.

 

He won't officially retire yet. Going to schedule appearances then cancel or withdraw. The media loves to build him up and bash him at the same time. His brand is worth too much for him to go away. Too bad because there are so many good players they could talk about.

 

Narcotic pain meds...You've gotta be joking...Have you ever taken a red eye flight? Or perhaps one that was 17 hours to Dubai? Think of that, 71% of a day spent flying. Then you are expected to play tournament golf...It's posts like this that blow me away. Don't go making assumptions like this that you know aren't true.

 

Believe what you want to believe guy...Also what does his marriage have to do with any of this...

 

edit: words.

[ignitewvu]

The guy has played 3 rounds of golf in 'real' PGA events (I don't count the Hero) since returning from over a year off of competitive golf and from dealing with basically 3 years of serious back problems. I think everyone needs to hit the pause button.

 

The expectations for Tiger should have been exactly what he is doing. Making the cut would have been an achievement. Look at how long it has taken a guy like Graham Deleat to come back from a similar issue (though his wasn't as bad a Tiger's) and Deleat is what? 10 years younger?

 

Yes, Tiger is a shell of himself. He's 40 years old and has been playing on tour for over 20 years. The game has changed, the talent he's competing against has changed, and he's old. Even if healthy, he would be a shell of himself. Phil Mickelson is a shell of himself.

 

If Tiger can stay healthy, I firmly believe he gets competitive again. At 40 years old, there was no way he's going to dominate the game even without a back issue. But I firmly believe if he gets healthy he can compete.

 

Expectations for a 40 year old coming back from multiple major back surgeries were way too high. 3 rounds after injury is also not nearly enough to write the book on him.

 

Of course he can be competitive if he gets healthy, the issue is that he isn't healthy, so it's not a matter of "staying" healthy. I don't care what he says, he isn't healthy. Anybody - a 30 cap or an old lady who has never played golf - can look at the way he walks, the way he picks a ball from the hole, and the way he swings and tell he isn't healthy. And you can look at his face and tell that he knows that.

 

Totally agree, I'm really curious as to what his workout schedule looks like.......is he doing yoga....is he doing leg strengthening exercises or is he just lifting weights like a fool. At this point he needs to re-evaluate everything, another surgery is only going to make thing worse.

[Holy Moses]

The guy has played 3 rounds of golf in 'real' PGA events (I don't count the Hero) since returning from over a year off of competitive golf and from dealing with basically 3 years of serious back problems. I think everyone needs to hit the pause button.

 

The expectations for Tiger should have been exactly what he is doing. Making the cut would have been an achievement. Look at how long it has taken a guy like Graham Deleat to come back from a similar issue (though his wasn't as bad a Tiger's) and Deleat is what? 10 years younger?

 

Yes, Tiger is a shell of himself. He's 40 years old and has been playing on tour for over 20 years. The game has changed, the talent he's competing against has changed, and he's old. Even if healthy, he would be a shell of himself. Phil Mickelson is a shell of himself.

 

If Tiger can stay healthy, I firmly believe he gets competitive again. At 40 years old, there was no way he's going to dominate the game even without a back issue. But I firmly believe if he gets healthy he can compete.

 

Expectations for a 40 year old coming back from multiple major back surgeries were way too high. 3 rounds after injury is also not nearly enough to write the book on him.

 

Of course he can be competitive if he gets healthy, the issue is that he isn't healthy, so it's not a matter of "staying" healthy. I don't care what he says, he isn't healthy. Anybody - a 30 cap or an old lady who has never played golf - can look at the way he walks, the way he picks a ball from the hole, and the way he swings and tell he isn't healthy. And you can look at his face and tell that he knows that.

 

Totally agree, I'm really curious as to what his workout schedule looks like.......is he doing yoga....is he doing leg strengthening exercises or is he just lifting weights like a fool. At this point he needs to re-evaluate everything, another surgery is only going to make thing worse.

 

Even recently, Rory admitted Tiger is still working out too much and too hard. Up at 4 AM texting Rory and pissing off his finace. Tiger knows one way and it's hard to end that.

[bPol]

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/vader.jpg

[SilverBullets]

Ok I take back everything I said...

 

Someone close to him needs to talk him into hanging it up... his legacy is established.... he has enough money... the dude needs to be able to pickup his kids and walk for the rest of his life

[North Butte]

I don't have and hope never to have 1% of the orthopedic problems Tiger has suffered through. But as an out of shape, fat middle-aged office worker I get back spasms from time to time. If I took a transatlantic flight and then tried to play golf when I'm going through a spell, I would walk *exactly* like Tiger was walking and move *exactly* like he was moving. I know because I made that mistake once.

 

It was killing me to watch him try to play yesterday. Knowing how miserable it is just from spastic muscles, I can't imagine the willpower it takes to do it with genuine damage to your spine. Yikes!

 

Empathy aside, I guess I have to put this trip for Tiger in the "courageous but unwise" category.

[simags]

Maybe he should take a leaf out of Stensons book and find a killer 3 wood for a while to hit some more fairways? Irons seem 8/10 short game looks sharp (although i didn't get the putter from the fringe in Dubai) and as we saw in Hawaii the scotty is still his favourite club in the bag. Driving is his issue and he can't make birdies from behind a tree or deep rough? Still rooting for him though (excuse the pun!)

[Holy Moses]

My hope for Tiger continuing to play well is that he just signed multi-year endorsement deals with TaylorMade, Bridgestone, and Monster. He thinks he has 3-5 years left, but I doubt he saw this recent setback coming.

[Bstein74]

The problem isn't his back, it's between his ears..........

[Holy Moses]

The problem isn't his back, it's between his ears..........

 

It's both. After how many back surgeries how can you say it's just mental?

[tigers9iron]

The problem isn't his back, it's between his ears..........

 

It's both. After how many back surgeries how can you say it's just mental?

deep mental stresses and inner conflicts were a serious factor in the back issues. Its textbook psycosomatics. the surgeries have wrecked him, once u slice and dice that back its over. Resolving his deep mental psychological conflicts wouldve taken care of his back issues for the most part. Host of other issues....swing changes, running with weighted belts, training with navy seals,etc etc etc etc etc

[Joe85]

Re: Is Tiger done?

 

 

I'd say if he won one more major it would be a massive success and unprecedented if he could do a '86 Masters Jack Nicklaus style one last major victory.

 

 

IMO, yes, he is pretty much toast now. Somewhat of a shame - even though I wasn't a fanboy, I still would have liked to see him battle out a few more times against the likes of Spieth, McIlroy, et al.

 

 

So long, Tiger....

[Holy Moses]

The problem isn't his back, it's between his ears..........

 

It's both. After how many back surgeries how can you say it's just mental?

Resolving his deep mental psychological conflicts wouldve taken care of his back issues for the most part.

 

Man, you could have been the Tiger saver!

[Roadking2003]

The problem isn't his back, it's between his ears..........

 

Probably both. And it's harder to fix what's between your ears than what's in your back.

[pwebber]

He did things that made his life off the course completely fall apart, and his game followed suit. I think he's done