Should Topic Title Be: Tiger Is Done, or Is Tiger Done?

[golfdad907]

It'll be interesting to watch, have to see how long it takes for a Top 10, if that occurs.

 

Why can't folks share their opinion without all the hater talk? Is someone thinks he's done, that's their opinion no need to attack them because they disagree with you.

 

Back to my play-doh and juice box

[DrSchteeve]

So since I'm getting plenty of crap for being a doctor, I might as well as well make some quasi-medical observations, or at least this one. Tiger's back is not healthy. Obviously there's not enough issues to preclude him from playing, but the swings he was taking at the Farmer's were the swings of somebody who either 1) can't make full rotational spine movements, or 2) is afraid to make full rotational spine movements. It's most noticeable on the follow through, which at the Farmer's was very abbreviated and upright.

If I might ask, what type of "doctor" are you?

 

A Physician, i.e., M.D., DO, DPM, DDS/DMD?

 

If an M.D. or DO, specialty and sub-specialty please, if relevant?

 

Or an academic "doctor," i.e., chiropractor?

 

"Quasi-Medical?"

 

Interesting, lol

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever⛳️

RP

 

Well, if you actually read the thread, like the post #138 (4 posts above yours) you might see that I state that I am an MD. My specialty is occupational medicine, board-certified, which means that for most of my 25 year career I was treating work-related back injuries.

 

But this is beyond ridiculous. This is an opinion board, and in my post, and in the title to the thread, I raise the question of whether Tiger is done, then state my opinion. What difference does it make that I'm a doctor? Or a 10 cap? Like some people, I recognize that others will have different opinions, and their opinions are no more or less valid than mine, unless they have some special knowledge (which nobody in this thread has claimed to have, including me). I never claimed that being a doctor gave me some special knowledge, or at least it didn't really occur to me until several posters seemed to think that, so I responded to it. Nor did I pour the thread to find all the 12, 15, and 20 caps giving their opinions so that I could know that with my superior 10 cap I must be more knowledgeable - or my opinion would be more valid - than theirs.

 

That's a sad little world..

[Titleist 670]

Here are my thoughts on Tiger:

 

1. His swing doesn't look good to me - he still looks stiff a lot of the time. That's a bigger concern to me than his actual scores. 76-72 isn't a complete disaster, and his short game looked really good at times which is encouraging.

2. People need to stop with the excuses for him. "Torrey wasn't the right place to start" "He shouldn't be grouped with DJ/Day" "It's too cold" "His flight for the next tourney will kill his back". Enough already. He has to start playing regularly at some point, and he's won a billion times at Torrey. What do we need to do, have his comeback be a fake tournament at his home practice facility?

3. I don't think we'll know how good Tiger can be until 6 months to a year from now. He has to get back to playing a regular schedule. Plenty of golfers look awful some weeks and then 2 months later are playing great golf. One tournament doesn't make someone "done", and I don't even know what "done" is - done winning? Done winning majors? If he can stay relatively healthy, I'm sure he will contend here and there and you'd think he'd have the capability to win a few times. However, if he's going to play once a month, take three weeks off, play once or twice, take a month off, rinse and repeat, it's going to be hard for him. It seems like forever since he put 4 good rounds together.

[cdnglf]

2. People need to stop with the excuses for him. "Torrey wasn't the right place to start" "He shouldn't be grouped with DJ/Day" "It's too cold" "His flight for the next tourney will kill his back". Enough already. He has to start playing regularly at some point, and he's won a billion times at Torrey. What do we need to do, have his comeback be a fake tournament at his home practice facility?

 

Already tried that, didn't work out.

[Forged4ever]

So since I'm getting plenty of crap for being a doctor, I might as well as well make some quasi-medical observations, or at least this one. Tiger's back is not healthy. Obviously there's not enough issues to preclude him from playing, but the swings he was taking at the Farmer's were the swings of somebody who either 1) can't make full rotational spine movements, or 2) is afraid to make full rotational spine movements. It's most noticeable on the follow through, which at the Farmer's was very abbreviated and upright.

If I might ask, what type of "doctor" are you?

 

A Physician, i.e., M.D., DO, DPM, DDS/DMD?

 

If an M.D. or DO, specialty and sub-specialty please, if relevant?

 

Or an academic "doctor," i.e., chiropractor?

 

"Quasi-Medical?"

 

Interesting, lol

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever⛳️

RP

 

Well, if you actually read the thread, like the post #138 (4 posts above yours) you might see that I state that I am an MD. My specialty is occupational medicine, board-certified, which means that for most of my 25 year career I was treating work-related back injuries.

 

But this is beyond ridiculous. This is an opinion board, and in my post, and in the title to the thread, I raise the question of whether Tiger is done, then state my opinion. What difference does it make that I'm a doctor? Or a 10 cap? Like some people, I recognize that others will have different opinions, and their opinions are no more or less valid than mine, unless they have some special knowledge (which nobody in this thread has claimed to have, including me). I never claimed that being a doctor gave me some special knowledge, or at least it didn't really occur to me until several posters seemed to think that, so I responded to it. Nor did I pour the thread to find all the 12, 15, and 20 caps giving their opinions so that I could know that with my superior 10 cap I must be more knowledgeable - or my opinion would be more valid - than theirs.

 

That's a sad little world..

I read your OP and the last page, obviously not catching that you're an MD

 

What difference does it make if you're a Physician or not and making "quasi-medical" observations?

 

About as much difference as a 10 cap critiquing Tiger's or any Tour Boi's swing-

 

Actually, being an MD in combination with your sub specialty gives you a lot of credibility in addressing his back injury if you are familiar with his condition(s) and treatment modalities. I realize that you probably don't have access to his medical stuff but you obviously have read enough to make an educated opinion-

 

Now THAT I'd read and learn from

 

Thanks for responding and FWIW, I gave ya a 5-Star cuz while I may not agree with everything that you've posted, I respect the fact that you put yourself out there by starting this type of thread.

 

I just can't stomach keyboard kommandos who anonymously throw a 1-Star down.

 

I look at a 10 cap like a 2nd year resident, lol

 

They know enough to do a routine vanilla H&P but do not have the depth or breadth of training and practical experience to go deep in a difficult patient encounter and I consider someone picking apart a Tour Pro's swing as "going deep," lol

 

This is just me and I realize that I'm screwed up

 

Stay well my Friend and have a great season???

 

All the Best,

Richard

[JonnyKrasnodar]

Why is it when people answer the OPs question whether Tiger is done or not, that they are a 'hater' if they think he's done? It's not that people hate Tiger at all it's just a matter of whether they think he's done or not. I guess people love to jump to negative conclusions, it's easier and more entertaining.

 

Its true that TW has set a ridiculously high standard for performance.

 

But to state he is "done" after shooting within a stroke or 2 of the #1 and #3 in the world seems a bit biased (cough, hating)

 

No?

 

Do you really think people are basing that conclusion solely on these two rounds? I've always been of the opinion that no one knows what the future holds for any player but he certainly looks closer to "done" then primed to be among the games elite again.

 

The 18 months prior to the surgeries where he played bang average don't count though because that would mean there was more than 2 rounds of evidence proving them wrong. And you can discount the bottom 3 finish in December for the same reason. Taking that logical viewpoint, along with the fact the crowd at Chambers Bay prior to the surgeries were actually laughing at how bad his shots were on occasion makes you, like me, a hater. Not realistic in terms of his game is so far off winning and his back is so beat up he walks gingerly, struggles to mark a ball or indeed pick a tee out the ground.

 

I want to see the best in the world. Not someone that was the best in the world 8 years ago. If I did, I'd watch the Champions Tour and all the excitement that brings.

[dciccoritti]

IMO: TID

 

The sooner he quits, the better. Painful to watch, and it's not going to get better. He's been dealing with this set, reset, then reset again for at least 3 years. He torched his body with his violent swings, and it's not going to recover.

 

I remember watching him as an amateur and seeing how hard he swung a pitching wedge, and wondering: can his body do that for a lifetime? Answer: no.

 

It didn't have to. His body held on just long enough to show the world a game that was never thought possible. Wins and records that are still difficult to even fathom.

 

Can he do what VJ and a few others have done in their 40's? Will his back and his new swing to prevent future back injury hold up? Does he have enough determination to make it work? Time will tell.

 

Unlike you, I don't start threads predicting how well someone is going to play or for how long. I just watch and wish them all the best. Plus I'm a sucker for human nature that since the beginning of time has always tried show that it can do the impossible. There's just something exciting about people that say "you just watch".

 

...and if he doesn't, or isn't able to pull it off, it was still one heck of a ride. Much more fun and exciting than this thread, and so many others like it ;-)

[mwkbmw]

This from a friggin ten capper who wouldn't know "done" if it jumped up and bit him in the ..., LMFAO?!?!?

 

Oh Dear God, I love this place������

 

All the Best,

RP

So if I was scratch you might give more credibility to my observations?

Yep....

 

 

Regards,

RP

 

Just curious. Would the good Dr. have more credibility if he had once been a plus 'capper? Could be that his game has fallen much in the same manner as Tiger's.

 

 

Just messin' with ya', RP. I hope you're doing well tonight. :)

[Pingfitz]

If he cannot contend on Sunday in a strong field event, then he is done.

 

[crazy8golfer]

Im saying this was a win, He played 2 rounds in really tough conditions and walked off the course. In the long run missing this cut might end up being a good thing

I would think the Kool-Aid would be about empty by now. The Tiger Lovers just keep dreaming, he needs more tournaments, he's rusty, give him time, it's too early, he's shooting in the low 60's at home, his short game is great right now, he's added another 20 yards. Give it up, he DONE!

[BreakingPar]

Yeah, I'm afraid it's time to retire...

 

When you're pounding it 20 yards past a crippled 40 year old, with a back that's been surgically repaired thrice, and you can only manage to beat him by 2 strokes, and you still miss the cut?

 

I mean, he's probably my favourite golfer right now, but Dustin Johnson, your time's up.

 

I mean, sure he won multiple times including a major last year. But still. C'mon man!

 

Also Jason Day, Rickie Fowler, Jimmy Walker, and especially Daniel Berger(!), we hardly knew ye!

 

 

[crazy8golfer]

Topic title should be: Am I a troll? or I am a troll!

 

First official PGA event after 17 month, missed cut, now he is done?

 

Jason Day is done, or is Jason Day done?

Dustin Johnson is done, or is Dustin Johnson done?

Brooks Koepka is done, or is Brooks Koepka done?

Rickie Fowler is done, or is Rickie Fowler done?

...

...

...

I guess that I am just a troll and proud of it. What flavor Kool-Aid do you drink?

[Sean2]

A bit off topic, but TW's back issues raise the question about the backs of other golfers who swing so hard. I would imagine that the back was not designed to sustain that kind of twisting/torque, and I wonder what will happen to those golfers down the road. IMHO restricting one's hip turn is a direct contributor to back issues, especially for those who swing so "violently".

[MMB1500]

A bit off topic, but TW's back issues raise the question about the backs of other golfers who swing so hard. I would imagine that the back was not designed to sustain that kind of twisting/torque, and I wonder what will happen to those golfers down the road. IMHO restricting one's hip turn is a direct contributor to back issues, especially for those who swing so "violently".

 

I'm sure we'll be having a similar discussion about Jason Day in the not too distant future. He's already got back knack, albeit not at Tiger proportions yet. Swinging as hard he does in the way he does, something's surely going to snap eventually and I don't mean a hooked drive into the car park.

[WHC888]

Topic title should be: Am I a troll? or I am a troll!

 

First official PGA event after 17 month, missed cut, now he is done?

 

Jason Day is done, or is Jason Day done?

Dustin Johnson is done, or is Dustin Johnson done?

Brooks Koepka is done, or is Brooks Koepka done?

Rickie Fowler is done, or is Rickie Fowler done?

...

...

...

I guess that I am just a troll and proud of it. What flavor Kool-Aid do you drink?

not much of a Kool-Aid guy, I prefer Cristal.

[BIG STU]

A bit off topic, but TW's back issues raise the question about the backs of other golfers who swing so hard. I would imagine that the back was not designed to sustain that kind of twisting/torque, and I wonder what will happen to those golfers down the road. IMHO restricting one's hip turn is a direct contributor to back issues, especially for those who swing so "violently".

I can shed a little light so to speak on that

My old man was a club pro and a teacher-- Back in his college days he had taken a course in what we call sports medicine now. In fact he had been a trainer for a small college in North Carolina.

He had always said that the golf swing to a certain point was one of the most un natural things on could do to the body. In the 70s and early 80s the "reverse C" follow through was all the rage. He told me never to do it and explained as to why. Every player I ever saw that did it has had back problems down the road except for Colin Montgomerie. He also told me to never restrict nothing with the hips etc. The way he explained it and showed me was simple to understand with common sense and isometrics basically. Yep some of the guys today and ladies too have a violent swings. Great swings but violent just look at Lexi Thompson she makes my back hurt just watching.

[BillyZ2]

Are we sure it his back problems aren't a direct result of getting hit by with that 9 iron?

[BIG STU]

Are we sure it his back problems aren't a direct result of getting hit by with that 9 iron?

LOL I thought it was a 5 iron

[Forged4ever]

This from a friggin ten capper who wouldn't know "done" if it jumped up and bit him in the ..., LMFAO?!?!?

 

Oh Dear God, I love this place??

 

All the Best,

RP

So if I was scratch you might give more credibility to my observations?

Yep....

 

 

Regards,

RP

 

Just curious. Would the good Dr. have more credibility if he had once been a plus 'capper? Could be that his game has fallen much in the same manner as Tiger's.

 

 

Just messin' with ya', RP. I hope you're doing well tonight. :)

LMAO, actually, yea he would, lol.

 

There's a newer member here who was a DI Player and a +3.2 to 3.6 and after college, a career, lady and life got in the way and he walked away for close to 20 years and then he decided to pick the game up again last fall and he's about a 11~ to 12~ now however more important than any swing knowledge, because there are sooooo many types of swings at the highest levels that are successful, he knows what it's like to Play and Compete at Plus, MENTALLY, and while I still don't believe that someone can comment on this unless they've Played, as Sam would say, "under the gun" of Professional golf, a Plus at least understands and APPLIES the mental part of the game that I've never seen from a 6- to 8~ and above. Maybe they're out there, though I've just never seen em in real life.

 

However, He is about the only one in this thread who has the knowledge to speak to Tiger's back issues if he so chooses.

 

Hell, he did a psych rotation so he could even take a shot at my issues, LMAO

 

Thanks for the thoughts Bro?

 

I'm back in the hospital but hopefully not for long. My bud Maxie is back in too though he's in ICU with COPD. He's a pain in my butt but I enjoy our putting contests so hopefully he gets to the floor soon, haha

 

Stay well my Friend and have a great season??️

 

My Best,

Richard

[Forged4ever]

Are we sure it his back problems aren't a direct result of getting hit by with that 9 iron?

LOL I thought it was a 5 iron

I thought it was a friggin wedge?

 

My Best,

RP

[27x10.5]

If Brady(who is always said to have few athletic characteristics) can be playing better than all but 1 of the QB's on the planet and he's 1 year behind Tiger(has been called one of the best 'athletes' of all time), I think Tiger can take a little heat off the fast ball and play some golf. Nobody is trying to kill him out there, I wish he'd play it short and easy just to see what happens. He's not playing that bad in comparison to other players, he's just not at the level we're accustomed to seeing him play at. No player that I can think of in any sport has been held to this level of expectation but I'm sure someone could bring up a good example but my point is that it's rare. Golf is slow paced and non-contact I 100% believe he'll be fine.

[MK7Golf21]

I'm just glad he's playing tournaments, if he stays healthy and keeps playing he will get better. In the meantime I'm just glad he's playing

[Matt J]

Got into some good 19th hole discussion on El Tigre this evening. I decided there's too much bull for me. Dollars to doughnuts, he wins a PGA Tour event before he dies? 10 dollars, 100, 100,000, or a million, something that hurts you financially what's your over under?

 

I say 1 major, and 3 events. Let's hear it. Weird with Tiger it's almost 20 or none, haha.

[brutusthedobie]

Tiger is done. His mind has been blown, in my opinion. He drove the ball alright in his early years, and was a good iron player, but the reason he won the tournaments he did was his ability to sink 20-30 foot putts in the clutch, almost at will...personal life caught up to him and tore him down.. Tiger was a great putter in the clutch...he always made the 20 footer when it counted...but life caught up to him off the course and bit him in the a**..

[Forged4ever]

Tiger is done. His mind has been blown, in my opinion. He drove the ball alright in his early years, and was a good iron player, but the reason he won the tournaments he did was his ability to sink 20-30 foot putts in the clutch, almost at will...personal life caught up to him and tore him down.. Tiger was a great putter in the clutch...he always made the 20 footer when it counted...but life caught up to him off the course and bit him in the a**..

Excellent Post on a couple of fronts/points!!

 

Very Nicely Played?

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend ⛳️

RP

[bscinstnct]

Tiger is done. His mind has been blown, in my opinion. He drove the ball alright in his early years, and was a good iron player, but the reason he won the tournaments he did was his ability to sink 20-30 foot putts in the clutch, almost at will...personal life caught up to him and tore him down.. Tiger was a great putter in the clutch...he always made the 20 footer when it counted...but life caught up to him off the course and bit him in the a**..

 

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/7743715/tiger-woods-driving-not-putting-made-difference-bay-hill

 

Driving, not putting, key for Tiger

 

Broadie used PGA Tour ShotLink data from 2003 to 2010 to determine that Tiger gained 3.2 strokes per round over the average tour player. The biggest chunk of those strokes gained during that period came from his long game (2.08), with his short game (0.42) and his putting (0.70) accounting for the rest.

 

[brutusthedobie]

Tiger is done. His mind has been blown, in my opinion. He drove the ball alright in his early years, and was a good iron player, but the reason he won the tournaments he did was his ability to sink 20-30 foot putts in the clutch, almost at will...personal life caught up to him and tore him down.. Tiger was a great putter in the clutch...he always made the 20 footer when it counted...but life caught up to him off the course and bit him in the a**..

 

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/7743715/tiger-woods-driving-not-putting-made-difference-bay-hill

 

Driving, not putting, key for Tiger

 

Broadie used PGA Tour ShotLink data from 2003 to 2010 to determine that Tiger gained 3.2 strokes per round over the average tour player. The biggest chunk of those strokes gained during that period came from his long game (2.08), with his short game (0.42) and his putting (0.70) accounting for the rest.

Driving was the key for Tiger? Did you even watch Tiger when he was actually winning? I never said he was dominant over his opponents in any way, except for clutch putts of at least 15-20 feet. For those of us who witnessed those tournaments, Tiger always sunk what seemed to be the clutch putt of the tournament....his opponents were so shocked and disheartened by those putts, that he ended up beating their faces into the sand... And I don't care what shotlink says, I watched that bastxxx kick a** for years, and it was because when the s*** hit the fan, Tiger could putt lights out....

[GeorgeHWB]

I guess that I am just a troll and proud of it. What flavor Kool-Aid do you drink?

 

Yes you are.

 

I drink Shiner Bock. Thanks for asking.

[BIG STU]

Tiger is done. His mind has been blown, in my opinion. He drove the ball alright in his early years, and was a good iron player, but the reason he won the tournaments he did was his ability to sink 20-30 foot putts in the clutch, almost at will...personal life caught up to him and tore him down.. Tiger was a great putter in the clutch...he always made the 20 footer when it counted...but life caught up to him off the course and bit him in the a**..

 

http://www.espn.com/...erence-bay-hill

 

Driving, not putting, key for Tiger

 

Broadie used PGA Tour ShotLink data from 2003 to 2010 to determine that Tiger gained 3.2 strokes per round over the average tour player. The biggest chunk of those strokes gained during that period came from his long game (2.08), with his short game (0.42) and his putting (0.70) accounting for the rest.

Driving was the key for Tiger? Did you even watch Tiger when he was actually winning? I never said he was dominant over his opponents in any way, except for clutch putts of at least 15-20 feet. For those of us who witnessed those tournaments, Tiger always sunk what seemed to be the clutch putt of the tournament....his opponents were so shocked and disheartened by those putts, that he ended up beating their faces into the sand... And I don't care what shotlink says, I watched that bastxxx kick a** for years, and it was because when the s*** hit the fan, Tiger could putt lights out....

I have to agree with you on the putting part he could darn sure putt and the putts fell at the right time. I am not a Tiger Fanboy but neither do I have anything against him. I believe in giving credit where credit is due and he could darn sure putt. He was also very creative especially around the greens.

[Valtiel]

Tiger is done. His mind has been blown, in my opinion. He drove the ball alright in his early years, and was a good iron player, but the reason he won the tournaments he did was his ability to sink 20-30 foot putts in the clutch, almost at will...personal life caught up to him and tore him down.. Tiger was a great putter in the clutch...he always made the 20 footer when it counted...but life caught up to him off the course and bit him in the a**..

 

http://www.espn.com/...erence-bay-hill

 

Driving, not putting, key for Tiger

 

Broadie used PGA Tour ShotLink data from 2003 to 2010 to determine that Tiger gained 3.2 strokes per round over the average tour player. The biggest chunk of those strokes gained during that period came from his long game (2.08), with his short game (0.42) and his putting (0.70) accounting for the rest.

Driving was the key for Tiger? Did you even watch Tiger when he was actually winning? I never said he was dominant over his opponents in any way, except for clutch putts of at least 15-20 feet. For those of us who witnessed those tournaments, Tiger always sunk what seemed to be the clutch putt of the tournament....his opponents were so shocked and disheartened by those putts, that he ended up beating their faces into the sand... And I don't care what shotlink says, I watched that bastxxx kick a** for years, and it was because when the s*** hit the fan, Tiger could putt lights out....

 

No question he could putt lights out, but "lights out" is not a stat, its an anecdote. If the data says that his long game accounted for most of his dominance then.........the long game accounted for most of his dominance. You can't really argue with that.