Should Topic Title Be: Tiger Is Done, or Is Tiger Done?

[Pete O'Tube]

https://www.emirates...irst_class.aspx

 

Such an ordeal.

 

He'll have been in one of these surely. Non stop MCO - DXB.

 

[SilverBullets]

its the demeanor, the scared to death look in his eyes, the disinterested affect. Its him walking around like he is 80. There is nothing that even remotely resembles a guy thats just a little rusty or a bit off form.

 

But how did you expect him to look? He is 3 rounds into an comeback attempt from multiple major surgeries after injuring his back playing this very same sport.... I mean he spent what? 3 years in pain. Did you expect him to come out there completely confident? Yeah, he absolutely should be scared. He absolutely should lack confidence in his back. He won't know if it's truly fixed until it breaks again (or doesn't). It's a lot like athletes whom tear their ACL. Now, it's not nearly as big of an issue but 5-10 years ago, it took guys time to get confidence with cutting and jumping and stopping again. It's the same theory.

 

I just don't understand why people expected him to come out there and look like Tiger Woods again and be fully healthy and confident in everything. It's unrealistic. While what he did on the golf course was truly incredible for a 10-12 year span (and the best single span of dominance in any sport ever), he is still a human.

[cdnglf]

Tiger is a shell of himself. He's 40 years old and has been playing on tour for over 20 years. The game has changed, the talent he's competing against has changed, and he's old. Even if healthy, he would be a shell of himself. Phil Mickelson is a shell of himself.

 

Not a great comparison: Phil is basically the best-case aging scenario and Tiger is pretty much the worst.

 

Phil obviously isn't as good as he was at his peak. But even though he's five years older than Tiger, he's in no way "a shell of himself" in the way that Tiger is (and has been for quite some time now).

 

Phil is still clearly a top-level player. In the world top 20, made the Ryder Cup team, qualified for the Tour Championship, second place finishes in majors 3 years in a row.

[Gem]

The thing that surprised me these last couple of weeks has been how he looks when walking the course. I can understand he won't quite have the cold arrogance he had from years of winning but he looks so stiff and unnatural when walking.

It is a big change from his invitation event where his overall demeanour and play looked far better.

[tigers9iron]

its the demeanor, the scared to death look in his eyes, the disinterested affect. Its him walking around like he is 80. There is nothing that even remotely resembles a guy thats just a little rusty or a bit off form.

 

But how did you expect him to look? He is 3 rounds into an comeback attempt from multiple major surgeries after injuring his back playing this very same sport.... I mean he spent what? 3 years in pain. Did you expect him to come out there completely confident? Yeah, he absolutely should be scared. He absolutely should lack confidence in his back. He won't know if it's truly fixed until it breaks again (or doesn't). It's a lot like athletes whom tear their ACL. Now, it's not nearly as big of an issue but 5-10 years ago, it took guys time to get confidence with cutting and jumping and stopping again. It's the same theory.

 

I just don't understand why people expected him to come out there and look like Tiger Woods again and be fully healthy and confident in everything. It's unrealistic. While what he did on the golf course was truly incredible for a 10-12 year span (and the best single span of dominance in any sport ever), he is still a human.

I guess after taking more than the recommended time to recover and then extending that even further by skipping the Napa event and having all the time in the world to prep mentally and physically and after telling us he is healthy and still being just 41 i think most thought that we would see something that didnt resemble an 80 yr old man hobbling around the course in absolute misery with a disgusted affect and no control over any part of his game. No expression of even a simple joy to be out there, back with the boys mixing it up as he says, nothing. Yes, he is human and yes its still disturbing and alarming.

[WidespreadPanic]

Watching him today was definitely weird. He looked extremely disinterested. He never even sniffed getting something going. The Bahamas were very promising, and even led a field of the best players in the world in birdies. Yes, it is very very early, but it was strange to watch, and I didnt like it one bit,

[DrSchteeve]

The guy hit 10/14 fairways . The issue was poor putting (33 officially but more from the fringe) 33 putts when you miss 7 greens

 

Should be having 25 putts at that level with that many GIR for a 69 without good iron play . Needs to hit irons better of course but the putter was the main issue today

 

Nobody who actually watched that round could say the issue was putting.

[North Butte]

If Tiger can stay healthy, I firmly believe he gets competitive again. At 40 years old, there was no way he's going to dominate the game even without a back issue. But I firmly believe if he gets healthy he can compete.

 

Do you expect him to get healthy next month? Next year? When he's 46? When he's 60?

 

If a couple of years of full-time healing and rehab have only gotten him to where we saw today, it's hard to imagine the next two years doing anything but make him older.

 

Everybody has better days and worse days but surely what you see right now is 95% as healthy as he's ever going to be, innit?

[DrSchteeve]

The guy has played 3 rounds of golf in 'real' PGA events (I don't count the Hero) since returning from over a year off of competitive golf and from dealing with basically 3 years of serious back problems. I think everyone needs to hit the pause button.

 

The expectations for Tiger should have been exactly what he is doing. Making the cut would have been an achievement. Look at how long it has taken a guy like Graham Deleat to come back from a similar issue (though his wasn't as bad a Tiger's) and Deleat is what? 10 years younger?

 

Yes, Tiger is a shell of himself. He's 40 years old and has been playing on tour for over 20 years. The game has changed, the talent he's competing against has changed, and he's old. Even if healthy, he would be a shell of himself. Phil Mickelson is a shell of himself.

 

If Tiger can stay healthy, I firmly believe he gets competitive again. At 40 years old, there was no way he's going to dominate the game even without a back issue. But I firmly believe if he gets healthy he can compete.

 

Expectations for a 40 year old coming back from multiple major back surgeries were way too high. 3 rounds after injury is also not nearly enough to write the book on him.

 

Of course he can be competitive if he gets healthy, the issue is that he isn't healthy, so it's not a matter of "staying" healthy. I don't care what he says, he isn't healthy. Anybody - a 30 cap or an old lady who has never played golf - can look at the way he walks, the way he picks a ball from the hole, and the way he swings and tell he isn't healthy. And you can look at his face and tell that he knows that.

[WidespreadPanic]

The guy hit 10/14 fairways . The issue was poor putting (33 officially but more from the fringe) 33 putts when you miss 7 greens

 

Should be having 25 putts at that level with that many GIR for a 69 without good iron play . Needs to hit irons better of course but the putter was the main issue today

 

Nobody who actually watched that round could say the issue was putting.

Putting was certainly not the biggest problem today.

[Shilgy]

If Tiger can stay healthy, I firmly believe he gets competitive again. At 40 years old, there was no way he's going to dominate the game even without a back issue. But I firmly believe if he gets healthy he can compete.

 

Do you expect him to get healthy next month? Next year? When he's 46? When he's 60?

 

If a couple of years of full-time healing and rehab have only gotten him to where we saw today, it's hard to imagine the next two years doing anything but make him older.

 

Everybody has better days and worse days but surely what you see right now is 95% as healthy as he's ever going to be, innit?

That perhaps is the best post on the subject. He has had about 12-14 months now since his last surgery? He wisely took all of 2016 off when many thought he would rush back too soon. But at this point maybe what we see is what we get. I hope not but it could be. Good news is it will make a lot of posters happy-but even they will miss having him to kick around. :)

[ebrasmus21]

.

[North Butte]

I do think he will play better rounds of golf than today, assuming he doesn't have another orthopedic setback any time soon. But it's going to be maybe getting to a one-way miss with the driver, sharpening up his wedge game, consistently making more putts, that sort of improvement. He never going to be able to quit "playing away from pain" or beating balls for 10 hours a day or swinging free and easy with an unforced natural movement. His body is what it is and will either maintain or get worse.

 

We all hope the "get worse" is far in his future and doesn't come with one false move at some random moment next week...

[azgreg]

[tigers9iron]

if this play continues we will start to see the WD's if even to just avoid another missed cut. I see this coming in LA after the 17 hour flight back

[Marco]

The walking is due to his motor patterns that have adapted to the pain and post op recovery, and it doesn't seem 100%.

 

Like I said in another thread, scar tissue and muscle inhibitions/altered motor patterns happen after a surgery and injury, and he probably still has the ongoing issue that caused his herniated discs in the first place, which could be a short leg.

 

So his body is adapting and he seems to walk gingerly because muscle tension is asymmetric and motor patterns are not like pre surgery.

 

Doesn't mean he's in pain, but he looks scared of another injury, like when he stepped in and out of that bunker.

 

But if he has a short leg, he should be scared.

[ignitewvu]

Tiger is a shell of himself. He's 40 years old and has been playing on tour for over 20 years. The game has changed, the talent he's competing against has changed, and he's old. Even if healthy, he would be a shell of himself. Phil Mickelson is a shell of himself.

 

Not a great comparison: Phil is basically the best-case aging scenario and Tiger is pretty much the worst.

 

Phil obviously isn't as good as he was at his peak. But even though he's five years older than Tiger, he's in no way "a shell of himself" in the way that Tiger is (and has been for quite some time now).

 

Phil is still clearly a top-level player. In the world top 20, made the Ryder Cup team, qualified for the Tour Championship, second place finishes in majors 3 years in a row.

 

Phil also has a debilitating auto immune disease, what he is doing is nothing short of incredible.

[GeorgeHWB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUIQgEVDM4

[bscinstnct]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUIQgEVDM4

 

Ok, thats a little severe , lyrics taken literally, on a few levels ; )

[tigers9iron]

Tiger is a shell of himself. He's 40 years old and has been playing on tour for over 20 years. The game has changed, the talent he's competing against has changed, and he's old. Even if healthy, he would be a shell of himself. Phil Mickelson is a shell of himself.

 

Not a great comparison: Phil is basically the best-case aging scenario and Tiger is pretty much the worst.

 

Phil obviously isn't as good as he was at his peak. But even though he's five years older than Tiger, he's in no way "a shell of himself" in the way that Tiger is (and has been for quite some time now).

 

Phil is still clearly a top-level player. In the world top 20, made the Ryder Cup team, qualified for the Tour Championship, second place finishes in majors 3 years in a row.

 

Phil also has a debilitating auto immune disease, what he is doing is nothing short of incredible.

phil is an incredibly talented golfer who will be able to play as long as he can stand up. tiger had similar if not greater talents but squandered it away by wrecking his swing every few years and starting over. tiger could've been on autopilot now like phil, roll out of bed and let your talent speak and let the fans see the greatest ever. Its almost as if he did everything he possibly could to destroy his career, he couldn't have done a better job if he tried.

[Frankensteins Monster]

The walking is due to his motor patterns that have adapted to the pain and post op recovery, and it doesn't seem 100%.

 

Like I said in another thread, scar tissue and muscle inhibitions/altered motor patterns happen after a surgery and injury, and he probably still has the ongoing issue that caused his herniated discs in the first place, which could be a short leg.

 

So his body is adapting and he seems to walk gingerly because muscle tension is asymmetric and motor patterns are not like pre surgery.

 

Doesn't mean he's in pain, but he looks scared of another injury, like when he stepped in and out of that bunker.

 

But if he has a short leg, he should be scared.

 

I agree. He dos look scared to get hurt again.

[forgedforever]

The walking is due to his motor patterns that have adapted to the pain and post op recovery, and it doesn't seem 100%.

 

Like I said in another thread, scar tissue and muscle inhibitions/altered motor patterns happen after a surgery and injury, and he probably still has the ongoing issue that caused his herniated discs in the first place, which could be a short leg.

 

So his body is adapting and he seems to walk gingerly because muscle tension is asymmetric and motor patterns are not like pre surgery.

 

Doesn't mean he's in pain, but he looks scared of another injury, like when he stepped in and out of that bunker.

 

But if he has a short leg, he should be scared.

 

I agree. He dos look scared to get hurt again.

 

This is my perception also.

[SurfDuffer]

Perhaps I've been in denial. After watching this video of his round today I think I'm finally reaching the conclusion that he may be done. With the exception of one or two shots his game today looked shockingly like mine........and that is no brag on my part. He looked in pain on the opening tee shot. I don't think the back is well. Sad.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z42PEgcQcXA

[tigers9iron]

Upon further reflection the only explanation would be the 17 hour flight really locked up his back. He showed signs of greatness in the Bahamas, even shot a 65, I thought it was a very promising week. In the cold wet tough torrey he all of a sudden looked horrible. Maybe the cold locked up his back. Then a 17 hour commercial flight to a cool Dubai. My only remaining thought beyond that he's just wrecked himself in every way over the years is that the flight and cool weather is affecting him where in the warm Bahamas he actually looked great at times.

[elcgolf]

I read all the posts and then watched the compilation video on YouTube and have to confess that I think everyone needs to calm the f**k down. Although he shot a 77 he didn't like that out of sorts, just really rusty. He had a few loose swings which can be attributed to sequencing issues, arms look slow, but otherwise, his round didn't look that bad. As anyone knows who plays competitive golf, there are days where things don't click. I expect him to play well tomorrow

[Sun Devil]

One positive is that he looks to be in really good shape.

[mosesgolf]

Amazing how different people interpret what they see. Someone said Tiger looked like he was in pain after the first tee shot. I saw someone who grimaced after a bad tee shot. Someone said it looked like Tiger was in pain the first few holes. I saw someone whose body language displayed anger over poor shots. IMO he is still playing bad due to rust and a 17hr flight to the other side of the world. Why did Tiger go to Dubai? A multi million dollar appearance fee. Tiger will likely play poorly when he flies another 17 hours back to LA. He'll likely show good form by March so be patient. :D

[bscinstnct]

Thanks to this guy.

 

Here is a good look in slo mo. Driver at 1:10.

 

On the range but it looks ok to me. Sort of. Legs look weak. What say the technical experts.

 

 

 

 

[BKN1964]

One positive is that he looks to be in really good shape.

This.

 

I was actually thinking just the other day "How can he be in such good physical condition with a bad back?". I'd have to venture his back isn't bothering him too much if he can maintain that level of physical fitness.

[PingGuy68]

No other player who is currently playing at his level has the media presence and scrutiny he has. I feel bad for the guy.