Should Topic Title Be: Tiger Is Done, or Is Tiger Done?

[BillyZ2]

Amazing how different people interpret what they see. Someone said Tiger looked like he was in pain after the first tee shot. I saw someone who grimaced after a bad tee shot. Someone said it looked like Tiger was in pain the first few holes. I saw someone whose body language displayed anger over poor shots. IMO he is still playing bad due to rust and a 17hr flight to the other side of the world. Why did Tiger go to Dubai? A multi million dollar appearance fee. Tiger will likely play poorly when he flies another 17 hours back to LA. He'll likely show good form by March so be patient. :D

I believe that one day you will actually see the truth about Tiger, that he is not deity but mortal man. His body has given out on him.

[chippa13]

When an athlete can no longer trust their body it starts a downward spiral that almost always ends with limping away from the game just that little bit too late.

[Bama1981]

Things never change. Tiger has a bad round and the sky is falling crowd comes out----just like clockwork.

 

A bad round, preceded by a bad round. Preceded by 3.5 years of mostly bad rounds.

 

Preceded by missing the cut at Torrey, preceded by WD'ing from the Dubai Classic. Sky is not falling - Tiger is DONE!

[Holy Moses]

When an athlete can no longer trust their body it starts a downward spiral that almost always ends with limping away from the game just that little bit too late.

 

I don't blame Tiger for still trying. 18 majors was right there for him, but if he can't compete by the end of this year he needs to retire. And I think he would do that if he can't play well. I hope somehow Firestone and the WGC lets him compete once more there in addition to the majors, Bay Hill, the Memorial, the Players, and Quicken Loans.

[Sanders74]

Golf Thrives when Tiger tees it up say what you will but Golf is better with Tiger it just is. I hope he can recover and find a way to play.

Think about what Masters Sunday would be if Tiger was in contention vs. if He does not enter or does not make the cut.

[chippa13]

I don't blame him. We see it all the time with great athletes across all sports. There are always a handful who refuse to believe that they can no longer compete at that level.

[chippa13]

Golf Thrives when Tiger tees it up say what you will but Golf is better with Tiger it just is. I hope he can recover and find a way to play.

Think about what Masters Sunday would be if Tiger was in contention vs. if He does not enter or does not make the cut.

 

Golf thrived when Tiger teed it up. Not so much now. It is time for Tiger and the blind faithful to realize it has come to an end and let him ride off into the sunset.

[maamold]

I noticed that after a bad shot over a hazard the other day (it spun back into the water) that he walked gingerly to his bag like his back was sore.

[Holy Moses]

I noticed that after a bad shot over a hazard the other day (it spun back into the water) that he walked gingerly to his bag like his back was sore.

 

He was like that during the entire round. When he got out of a deep bunker on his first hole, he literally used his LW toe like an ice pick by slamming it into the ground to pull himself out of the bunker. If he didn't do that, he'd still be in the bunker.

[andyk856]

He will never be what he once was, we all know that. His swing looks tentative and very uncomfortable, you can see it in his face. whether he is done or not is still up in the air i guess. I just hate how every tournament he plays in and has no shot of winning he WD from. Either play or sit out

[AddisonMP]

My political answer:

 

Its unfortunate to see him taking a step back again. I haven't played golf for that long (just a few years) and only then did I start following tour players. I myself cant think of another player (in my short history) to have setbacks on the scale of Tigers (physically, back issues) overcome them and play to top level again. Maybe you guys can shed light on a few players that have come back after injury/multiple surgeries (specifically back) and play to their full potential. Give me a little hope for Tiger to return to full form. Obviously Tiger wants to come back, play top tour level golf and compete with the other top players. But what he wants mentally and what his body can do might not match up. I'm optimistic, but what I'm seeing is making me be more realistic. I just don't see him giving it much more effort if he has to take more time off and entertain more surgeries.

 

You see it in a lot of top level athletes, entertainers, etc. that feel their time was cut short for whatever reason. Because of injury, outside issues, try to come back and capture that "lightning in a bottle" just one more time. To have that feeling of dominance, fans cheering, spotlight on them just one more time. But never live up to expectations. Its gotta be hard to be so dominate, so great at what you do, then to have to accept that they just cant raise to that level again. I understand why they push so hard, I get it. Its hard to watch. But I hope he can achieve his goals and at least play competitive tour level golf. Maybe not #1 level, but play well and be fun to watch.

[drnls1]

With everyone talking about the transatlantic flight being so tough - how soon do they fly over and practice? Obviously he has the resources to prepare himself upon arrival.

[kb24ismvp]

Ok say it's all physical and move on. I don't need to hear that he is mentally fragile like a lot of people who never suffered setbacks or defeat most of their career (see Ronda Rousey). Tiger cannot handle the idea of not being perfect so he quits. Go ahead and hammer me for stating the obvious.

 

So keep on with the idea that this is 100% physical and come to the realization that you cannot be on the course and be done with it. There is no reason to be out there and withdraw every time you risk shooting 80.

 

Finally someone who is using their head. I think his physical issues are really minor compared to his mental hurdles. This dude was THE GUY for a very very long time. The one everyone drooled all over both on and off the course. Now he is just another guy on tour who is trying to make cuts and get his game back. That is by far a much greater hurdle to overcome than any of his physical issues. He has worked out and kept himself in tip top shape his entire life and probably even more so now because of his back issues.

 

I am willing to bet that his sudden back spasms and subsequent withdrawal were more a result of his mental state than his physical. He needs to become comfortable with who he is NOW not who he was 10 years ago. If he can come to grips with his current level of play than I believe there is a lot more of Tiger to come. If however he cannot reign in his personal mental demons I fear that he will struggle to find anything resembling a competitive golf game. That would really be a huge disappointment for the game of golf in general. Golf is so much better off and exciting with Tiger involved than without him in the picture. If he ratchets down the ego and expectations and allows himself to rekindle what Earl cultivated in him I optimistically think he could become competitive again barring any further health issues/injuries. The Hero World Challenge not withstanding he looked as though he was having an internal struggle within himself during the The Farmers at Torrey. His swing certainly didn't look confident like it did at the Hero and regardless whether you want to admit it or not he looked stiff and forced as well as not happy at Torrey Pines.

 

whole heartily agree with the statement about this back problem is more of a mental issue rather than a physical issue. there is absolutely no way tiger would be playing competitive golf if he had physical ailments. absolutely no way. i don't know about his financial situation, and there have been many athletes who have made a lot of money but didn't manage their finances properly and were forced to play and try to earn a pay check. Assuming that isn't the case for Tiger, then he is playing for one reason and one reason only and that is to WIN. It would also be safe to assume that Tiger isn't a fool, he knows exactly how good these guys on tour have become and if he were to compete against them, he has to have the right tools and benchmarks to validate that he still belongs out there competing with the best of the best, otherwise why would he do it?

 

he has total control of his schedule and career and isn't obligated to play in any events, so in my opinion when he enters in an event he is there with the sole belief that he can win, either himself or his team must have some sort of metric to gauge how he would fare against the competition.

 

on the flip side though, if Tiger's goal was to win at Torrey Pines, then it makes zero sense to play in Dubai the following week. Lets pretend that Tiger made the cut at Torrey Pines and had a good showing. that would mean he would play sunday, do his post tournament activities ie stretch, address the media, sponsors, fans and so fourth. After which catch a flight, that essentially loses him 24 hours, due to the flight and the time change, get to dubai, deal with all the commotion of just playing in a tournament and having success. handle his obligations in Dubai, play in a pro am, play a practice round, then compete again. i dont' have to be a world traveller or a world class athlete to realize that this scheduling is not conducive to perform at this highest level. Most players that are near the top of the leaderboard didn't play in San Diego last week. I just don't get it.

[AmazinBlue]

So, the real question is, why would Tiger jeopardize the rest of his career for the appearance fee he was paid? Let's say it was $3,000000. And let's say he has $750M in the bank. He flew 17 hours, commercially, to make $3M about .004 of his net worth. That is the equivalent of someone with $500k in the bank flying across the country to get paid $2,000 for working for 2-4 days. AND, risking their health and ability to work and make $$ going forward. Is that even worth it? How much money does one person need?

 

I think Tiger jeopardized his future in the game for a 'measley' $3M pay day. If winning was the most important thing in his career right now, he never would have gotten on that plane. I think greed played a huge role in this and it may cost him more than he can emotionally afford to pay.

[golfDAD_21]

Finished...

[kb24ismvp]

With everyone talking about the transatlantic flight being so tough - how soon do they fly over and practice? Obviously he has the resources to prepare himself upon arrival.

 

Its not the flight that is the issue, its the fact that he is losing an extra day of practice and preparation for a tournament that he wants to win. the decision to schedule his play doesn't make any sense what so ever.

[Holy Moses]

So, the real question is, why would Tiger jeopardize the rest of his career for the appearance fee he was paid? Let's say it was $3,000000. And let's say he has $750M in the bank. He flew 17 hours, commercially, to make $3M about .004 of his net worth. That is the equivalent of someone with $500k in the bank flying across the country to get paid $2,000 for working for 2-4 days. AND, risking their health and ability to work and make $$ going forward. Is that even worth it? How much money does one person need?

 

I think Tiger jeopardized his future in the game for a 'measley' $3M pay day. If winning was the most important thing in his career right now, he never would have gotten on that plane. I think greed played a huge role in this and it may cost him more than he can emotionally afford to pay.

 

Tiger didn't get $3 million. Think it was $1.5 million or so. He doesn't have $750 million in the bank either. Maybe a few hundred million. But your point stands, why do it? Maybe he wanted to play a number of weeks in a row and didn't want to have to deal with the crowds, media, and atmosphere of Phoenix do he took the next best option.

[b3b3]

The best thing to describe this is a quote I read from Michael Jordan; " I love him too much to tell him he will never be GREAT again" No one can play consistently well with a back that acts up. Fred Couples,Retief Goosen,Tiger, we could go on and on with other players names. Sad to see the best player of our Generation struggle like this. One week,I'm good no pain,next week withdrawals.Hope he gets better. Not looking good right now.

[Lefty_3Jack]

It's ok to watch the best of their field not be what they once were. It reminds you how great they once were and it reinforces that every human will regress. I loved the mentality of Brett Favre basically telling people you were going to have to bring him off on a stretcher, the fact that Ali and De La Hoya took a** whippings in the end to know they were finished. This is the cylce. No one gets to leave on top, because if they were still on top they'd keep going!

 

I use Ronda Rousey as an example because you could tell that a large portion of her self worth was based on the false narrative that she was the best of all time. Once that armor was cracked she was finished. Tiger is the Manchurian Candidate. He wasn't allowed to fail, or he just never did till later in life and he cannot deal with it.

 

Tiger was, if not the most dominant golfer in stretch, the second most dominant. He was exciting to watch and we all thought he was going to win 30 majors. I thought Alex Rodriguez was going to hit 800 home runs, I thought Albert Pujols was going to hit .330/45hr's/120rbi till he was 50, I thought Ken Griffey Jr was going to hit 1000 home runs and win a gold glove in his 50's! EVERYONE LOSES IT AT SOME POINT AND THE NUMBERS COME TO REALITY.

[tigers9iron]

If the golf part was on auto pilot then he could really rest that back and play here and there and probably have success, maybe even peel off a major BUT the golf part is in shambles with conflicted muscle memory of at least 5 different golf swings. In his health he cannot now rebuild again and put in the thousands of swings and hours it take to convince your brain to trust yet another new motion. His philosophy of reach the pinnacle then tear it all down and start over has destroyed his career.

[The_Graveman]

I hope he is officially done. He doesn't have the game to compete nor will his body hold up after all the steroid usage. He just can't stand not being in the spotlight and it's time for the game to move on from him

[Shilgy]

When an athlete can no longer trust their body it starts a downward spiral that almost always ends with limping away from the game just that little bit too late.

 

I don't blame Tiger for still trying. 18 majors was right there for him, but if he can't compete by the end of this year he needs to retire. And I think he would do that if he can't play well. I hope somehow Firestone and the WGC lets him compete once more there in addition to the majors, Bay Hill, the Memorial, the Players, and Quicken Loans.

No-just no. I am a Tiger fan but the WGC should not start adding exemptions. If he chooses to use them when needed he can get them for a few years for the US Open as they have always done for a select few but not an event with a hard and fast requirement.

[Holy Moses]

When an athlete can no longer trust their body it starts a downward spiral that almost always ends with limping away from the game just that little bit too late.

 

I don't blame Tiger for still trying. 18 majors was right there for him, but if he can't compete by the end of this year he needs to retire. And I think he would do that if he can't play well. I hope somehow Firestone and the WGC lets him compete once more there in addition to the majors, Bay Hill, the Memorial, the Players, and Quicken Loans.

No-just no. I am a Tiger fan but the WGC should not start adding exemptions. If he chooses to use them when needed he can get them for a few years for the US Open as they have always done for a select few but not an event with a hard and fast requirement.

 

Just a one-time, one person exemption for a guy who owned and made that tournament. I'm not for stupid exemptions either, but this is an exception in my book.

[Shooter.McGavin]

IMHO Tiger is just rusty and probably unsure of his back. He is no different than any other pro athlete with a serious injury, whether it be knee or back. It takes time for the confidence to return that they can do some of the things they did before the injury. As mentally tough as Tiger is the worst thing that happen was having to have multiple surgeries. He just needs more tourneys without withdrawing to get some of that confidence back. Missed cuts won't help but they are definitely better than withdrawing. I think we will know more after these next few weeks. And yes I am a Tiger fanbody.

 

Go hawks

[North Butte]

Phil is more likely to break Jack's record then Tiger is at this point. Can't believe even the most optimistic fanboy would say four more are "right there" for Tiger.

[sheldonjhacker]

[AmazinBlue]

I think Tiger, his agent and the media, specifically the golf media need to realize that Tiger has become a caricature of himself. He only plays where has has done well and ALWAYS is in pain when he shoots 74+. He WDs about 2/3 of the time when he opens with a first round of 75+. He just wants the spotlight and his name out there. The media wants to talk about him and his agent does as well.

 

Now most people have figured out the game, the pain (when he plays poorly), the WDs when he knows he'll miss the cut and the lies about whether he is pain or not. This whole thing is silly and is becoming a tragic comedy. His reputation will suffer as a result if he doesn't owning up to his issues when asked directly about it. If you're in pain say so, own it and be done with it. And play your two rounds and miss the cut or don't tee it up at all. The WDs are making you look bad.

 

The media needs to stop making a big deal out of every tweet, sound bite and move he makes. Treat him just like anyone else who struggles to make the cut and this farce can end. When he realizes that he isn't the center of attention any more, he can retire with dignity, instead of the sideshow he has become.

[Holy Moses]

From what I have seen and read, today's withdrawal has moved a lot of people to think that Tiger is almost assuredly done. No one has confidence in him now. Today might really be the day where we can all say, "I knew then that the greatest golfer ever would never win again."'

[tigers9iron]

Its 3 strikes and your out.....Strike 1:His swing is ruined from all the rebuilds. Strike 2: his psyche is ruined from the scandal and how he handled/interpreted it. Strike 3: his body is ruined for countless reasons (unique/absurd fitness routine, navy seal sessions , gazillion swings during rebuilds, stress, inner turmoil, etc). I dont see any way out, he's checked all the boxes in the career suicide handbook.

[maverick]

I cannot understand why some people cannot face the truth. Tiger has nerve damage in his back and at his age he's not going to be competitive, period. New players are now the ones to watch. They are healthy and young and not afraid of Tiger. It doesn't mean he cannot play golf or pull of good shots. He just cannot take the grind of a full week of competitive golf that a tournament requires.