Should Topic Title Be: Tiger Is Done, or Is Tiger Done?

[stinger_gc]

Tiger should get a massage chair, will do wonders to his back.

[2bGood]

How could protestors keep you from getting to your private jet?

 

The explanation given was that he could not physically reach the necessary terminal/hangar after connecting from SD because of the blockade.

 

I just find that hard to believe, but was the first time Tiger flew commercial in 15 years

 

The story I read claimed his jet would need to land to refuel, so he took the commercial flight as it was faster due to it being a direct flight.

[Fiddy3]

Eldrick has had 3 Back surgeries, you can see how he walks after a swing on the course that he is in discomfort. I have had 3 back surgeries and I cannot play more than two days in a row and I swing nothing like Eldrick. I can't imagine what his back goes through when he swings.

 

Navy Seals workouts, HGH, steroids abuse along with the injuries that his body has undergone through the years.

 

Eldrick is finished, kaput, done.

 

 

#this

[bscinstnct]

Tiger should get a massage chair, will do wonders to his back.

 

 

[Shilgy]

From what I have seen and read, today's withdrawal has moved a lot of people to think that Tiger is almost assuredly done. No one has confidence in him now. Today might really be the day where we can all say, "I knew then that the greatest golfer ever would never win again."'

 

"I knew then that the Second greatest golfer ever would never win again."'

 

Jack is the greatest champion, Tiger is the greatest player

 

this argument is used by people who want to prop up tiger. its not needed. His legacy as 2nd best is great no need to invent criteria. Do you really think jack didnt have equal or greater ability than tiger?

Jack was consistently great for lomcer, but there is no doubt that Tigers best golf is the best golf there ever was. If not for the fire hydrant incident I honestly believe we wouldn't be havimg these discussions; Tiger would already have beaten Jacks and Sneads records. I think how much that whole drama took out of Tigers confidence is understated. Tiger

He has already won more individual events than Snead. And 8 more than Jack. Jack has the most majors, and likely always will.

[gunmetal]

Wonder if he took 5 years off would that help his body recover to the point where he could play 10 events a year? He'd be 46. Mickelson is 46 right now. Last year a dude who was 46 ish shot 58. Rod Pampling (47) won a tournament. Or is it once your back is fried...your back if fried type a deal?

[mtg]

Wonder if he took 5 years off would that help his body recover to the point where he could play 10 events a year? He'd be 46. Mickelson is 46 right now. Last year a dude who was 46 ish shot 58. Rod Pampling (47) won a tournament. Or is it once your back is fried...your back if fried type a deal?

 

Don't think an effed up back gets better. If it was a rest-would-help type thing he never would've elected for surgery. I ain't a doctor though.

[Holy Moses]

Wonder if he took 5 years off would that help his body recover to the point where he could play 10 events a year? He'd be 46. Mickelson is 46 right now. Last year a dude who was 46 ish shot 58. Rod Pampling (47) won a tournament. Or is it once your back is fried...your back if fried type a deal?

 

He took off a year and a half already - more time than was even mecessary. If he can't play, he can't play. More time won't help.

[A.Princey]

When a golf club is no longer in Tiger's hands, I will consider him done, but not until then.

[Stonewalled]

My political answer:

 

Its unfortunate to see him taking a step back again. I haven't played golf for that long (just a few years) and only then did I start following tour players. I myself cant think of another player (in my short history) to have setbacks on the scale of Tigers (physically, back issues) overcome them and play to top level again. Maybe you guys can shed light on a few players that have come back after injury/multiple surgeries (specifically back) and play to their full potential. Give me a little hope for Tiger to return to full form. Obviously Tiger wants to come back, play top tour level golf and compete with the other top players. But what he wants mentally and what his body can do might not match up. I'm optimistic, but what I'm seeing is making me be more realistic. I just don't see him giving it much more effort if he has to take more time off and entertain more surgeries.

 

You see it in a lot of top level athletes, entertainers, etc. that feel their time was cut short for whatever reason. Because of injury, outside issues, try to come back and capture that "lightning in a bottle" just one more time. To have that feeling of dominance, fans cheering, spotlight on them just one more time. But never live up to expectations. Its gotta be hard to be so dominate, so great at what you do, then to have to accept that they just cant raise to that level again. I understand why they push so hard, I get it. Its hard to watch. But I hope he can achieve his goals and at least play competitive tour level golf. Maybe not #1 level, but play well and be fun to watch.

Tiger has had his share of set backs. I am sure there are many of golfers who have had injuries and illnesses who have fought and came back to play well. Phil comes to mind as someone who over came Psoriatic Arthritis. Causes joint swelling, lower back problems etc. They say Phil only went to the doctor when he was unable to walk. Looks like the drug Enbrel has enabled Phil to return to form.

 

Eric Compton has overcome 2 heart transplants one at age 12 and the other at age 29. He has played on multiple tours and has 7 professional tour wins. Best PGA finish is tied for 2nd place at the 2014 US OPEN. Not to bad for someone lucky to be alive.

 

Another athlete who has come back from an illness is Mario Lemieux. He had a long list of ailments, Spina disk herniation, Hodgkin's Lymphoma [cancer] chronic tendinitis of the hip flexor muscle, chronic back pain,so severe someone else had to tie his skates for him. He missed the entire 1994-1995 season due to the cancer. Upon his return in 1995-1996 season he won the Hart trophy and the scoring title. Impressive.

 

So maybe Tiger has another good year left in that tired body. Time will tell.

[bPol]

Tiger's fine he just woke up saw the conditions and said F&%@ that

 

Play suspended for the day due to high wind

 

Finally someone speaking the truth

[Jacked_Loft]

Just heard that Tiger is meeting with Bill Glasson next week.

 

As TM claims to be the most technologically advanced OEM, maybe they're going to build the new new bionic man.

 

No seriously, being a player myself, something like this is always tough to watch regardless of who it happens to.

[tmb guy]

this thread is comical so ill be short i'm a hater for sure but he changed the game and brought tons of money into it and just raised the bar on the pga tour. So many young players winning because of Tiger if he never came along they would probably played baseball, basketballl etc. He made golf "cool". Now without getting into whether hes done or not and how he finished 2 strokes better or worse then dj and day which by the way is just moronic and sums up how far tiger has fallen when your analyzing his finish in an mc which is all that matters. Do yourself a favor and go on youtube and watch him play the 2000 open at PB. Doesnt look violent to me just looks flat out beautiful. Driving the ball perfect. Anyway quick saturday morning post and in closing i honestly beleive Sean Foley destroyed his swing and back while he was his student on one of monte's video's he breaks down exactly how. Anyway lets just enjoy one of the greatest stretches of golf we will probably ever see. cheers

[Joe85]

He has already won more individual events than Snead. And 8 more than Jack. Jack has the most majors, and likely always will.

 

 

Jack also had 19 runners up finishes at the majors throughout his career. Tiger by comparison has had 6 runners up finishes in majors his entire career.

 

 

That in my opinion just shows Nicklaus was much more dominant and consistent than Tiger ever was by a long shot.

[A.Princey]

He has already won more individual events than Snead. And 8 more than Jack. Jack has the most majors, and likely always will.

 

 

Jack also had 19 runners up finishes at the majors throughout his career. Tiger by comparison has had 6 runners up finishes in majors his entire career.

 

 

That in my opinion just shows Nicklaus was much more dominant and consistent than Tiger ever was by a long shot.

All relative to competition, and it was definitely lacking. 5-10 great players in jack's era with 20 or so notables. 20-30 great players in and throughout the Tiger era and at least 100 more notable ones. Easy for a big fish to APPEAR even bigger in that small of a pond, but put him in lake and see the greatness vastly diminished. Take half the GOOD field out for Tiger in his hey-day and see that win total in a whole new light....

 

Jack might be the GREATEST golfer in history in terms of accomplishment, but TW is the BEST golfer of all time based on sheer skill level and shot making ability. Anybody that doubts this is fooling themselves, and it would've been embarrassing for THAT 'field' to have seen his skill set come along several decades earlier, had he been born sooner.

[The Badger7]

Okay Tiger,

 

Back Spasms here ya go....

 

Take 4 Advil or 2 Aleve...

 

Now go play 72 Holes...Drink Gatorade for the Electrolytes...

[Shilgy]

He has already won more individual events than Snead. And 8 more than Jack. Jack has the most majors, and likely always will.

 

 

Jack also had 19 runners up finishes at the majors throughout his career. Tiger by comparison has had 6 runners up finishes in majors his entire career.

 

 

That in my opinion just shows Nicklaus was much more dominant and consistent than Tiger ever was by a long shot.

We can all read those numbers however we wish. A person could say, I wouldn't, that Jack couldn't close as well as Tiger. Finished second and third way more often than he sealed the deal.

[North Butte]

If he was a worse closer who managed to win more of them anyway one must suppose he was a better starter then Tiger, no?

[tmb guy]

He has already won more individual events than Snead. And 8 more than Jack. Jack has the most majors, and likely always will.

 

 

Jack also had 19 runners up finishes at the majors throughout his career. Tiger by comparison has had 6 runners up finishes in majors his entire career.

 

 

That in my opinion just shows Nicklaus was much more dominant and consistent than Tiger ever was by a long shot.

All relative to competition, and it was definitely lacking. 5-10 great players in jack's era with 20 or so notables. 20-30 great players in and throughout the Tiger era and at least 100 more notable ones. Easy for a big fish to APPEAR even bigger in that small of a pond, but put him in lake and see the greatness vastly diminished. Take half the GOOD field out for Tiger in his hey-day and see that win total in a whole new light....

 

Jack might be the GREATEST golfer in history in terms of accomplishment, but TW is the BEST golfer of all time based on sheer skill level and shot making ability. Anybody that doubts this is fooling themselves, and it would've been embarrassing for THAT 'field' to have seen his skill set come along several decades earlier, had he been born sooner.

 

 

i dont think jack is a good comparison on greatest shot making ability of all time Mr Lee Trevino on the other had could teach anybody

including tiger a thing or two about shotmaking

 

[Dpavs]

He has already won more individual events than Snead. And 8 more than Jack. Jack has the most majors, and likely always will.

 

 

Jack also had 19 runners up finishes at the majors throughout his career. Tiger by comparison has had 6 runners up finishes in majors his entire career.

 

 

That in my opinion just shows Nicklaus was much more dominant and consistent than Tiger ever was by a long shot.

All relative to competition, and it was definitely lacking. 5-10 great players in jack's era with 20 or so notables. 20-30 great players in and throughout the Tiger era and at least 100 more notable ones. Easy for a big fish to APPEAR even bigger in that small of a pond, but put him in lake and see the greatness vastly diminished. Take half the GOOD field out for Tiger in his hey-day and see that win total in a whole new light....

 

Jack might be the GREATEST golfer in history in terms of accomplishment, but TW is the BEST golfer of all time based on sheer skill level and shot making ability. Anybody that doubts this is fooling themselves, and it would've been embarrassing for THAT 'field' to have seen his skill set come along several decades earlier, had he been born sooner.

 

Your hear this argument a lot but if you go look at some ratings of the top 20 or 25 players of all time and see how many are from each era of golf, I don't think it holds even a tiny bit of water.

[greengolfer54]

IMO: TID

 

The sooner he quits, the better. Painful to watch, and it's not going to get better. He's been dealing with this set, reset, then reset again for at least 3 years. He torched his body with his violent swings, and it's not going to recover.

 

I remember watching him as an amateur and seeing how hard he swung a pitching wedge, and wondering: can his body do that for a lifetime? Answer: no.

 

EDIT 5 pages into the thread: I have said it several times, I hope he proves me wrong. No golfer, and perhaps no athlete, has had his flair for drama in the context of unfathomable talent.

I agree As fun as Tiger is to watch this is just hurting his rep right now....I am a huge Tiger fan and wish he proves us wrong just as he has always done, but i feel this is the end...

[pingfan0222]

Much like this thread, Tiger is done. He has said himself that he'll only play if he's competitive. He's not even close.

 

He'll hang it up before end of the season, or before the next one starts. Or he'll screw his back up so bad, he won't even have the choice to make.

[BillyZ2]

From what I have seen and read, today's withdrawal has moved a lot of people to think that Tiger is almost assuredly done. No one has confidence in him now. Today might really be the day where we can all say, "I knew then that the greatest golfer ever would never win again."'

 

"I knew then that the Second greatest golfer ever would never win again."'

 

Jack is the greatest champion, Tiger is the greatest player

Do you wear TW pajamas to bed?

[Chief Cowpie]

Topic title should be, "Tiger is well done."

[Joe85]

He has already won more individual events than Snead. And 8 more than Jack. Jack has the most majors, and likely always will.

 

 

Jack also had 19 runners up finishes at the majors throughout his career. Tiger by comparison has had 6 runners up finishes in majors his entire career.

 

 

That in my opinion just shows Nicklaus was much more dominant and consistent than Tiger ever was by a long shot.

All relative to competition, and it was definitely lacking. 5-10 great players in jack's era with 20 or so notables. 20-30 great players in and throughout the Tiger era and at least 100 more notable ones. Easy for a big fish to APPEAR even bigger in that small of a pond, but put him in lake and see the greatness vastly diminished. Take half the GOOD field out for Tiger in his hey-day and see that win total in a whole new light....

 

Jack might be the GREATEST golfer in history in terms of accomplishment, but TW is the BEST golfer of all time based on sheer skill level and shot making ability. Anybody that doubts this is fooling themselves, and it would've been embarrassing for THAT 'field' to have seen his skill set come along several decades earlier, had he been born sooner.

 

Your hear this argument a lot but if you go look at some ratings of the top 20 or 25 players of all time and see how many are from each era of golf, I don't think it holds even a tiny bit of water.

 

 

Pretty much.

[jay65]

He has already won more individual events than Snead. And 8 more than Jack. Jack has the most majors, and likely always will.

 

 

Jack also had 19 runners up finishes at the majors throughout his career. Tiger by comparison has had 6 runners up finishes in majors his entire career.

 

 

That in my opinion just shows Nicklaus was much more dominant and consistent than Tiger ever was by a long shot.

All relative to competition, and it was definitely lacking. 5-10 great players in jack's era with 20 or so notables. 20-30 great players in and throughout the Tiger era and at least 100 more notable ones. Easy for a big fish to APPEAR even bigger in that small of a pond, but put him in lake and see the greatness vastly diminished. Take half the GOOD field out for Tiger in his hey-day and see that win total in a whole new light....

 

Jack might be the GREATEST golfer in history in terms of accomplishment, but TW is the BEST golfer of all time based on sheer skill level and shot making ability. Anybody that doubts this is fooling themselves, and it would've been embarrassing for THAT 'field' to have seen his skill set come along several decades earlier, had he been born sooner.

 

Your hear this argument a lot but if you go look at some ratings of the top 20 or 25 players of all time and see how many are from each era of golf, I don't think it holds even a tiny bit of water.

 

Neither do I. 20-30 'Great players' from Tigers' era? Really?? I mean, define 'Great'. That's subjective enough, but if you say the likes of Player, Palmer, Trevino, Watson, Miller, Weiskopf etc from Jacks' era, where are these 20-30 players of equal standing as these guys that Tiger went up against? Mickelson? Maybe, Els? Probably, but after about half a dozen I seriously struggle to find any more from Tigers' era that could hold a torch to the likes of Trevino, Player, Palmer, Watson etc. I mean who are we going to have to start putting into that list of 20-30 'Greats'? Garcia? Kite? Couples? I mean come on! They're not even in the same ballpark as those listed above that Jack had to play against.

 

We can argue all day about this, and if you give 20 people the chance to come up with a lit of 'Greats' all 20 lists will be different somewhere. But I know which side of the fence of this discussion I stand.

[bscinstnct]

If Trevino said,

 

"Tigers better"

 

And, of TW, Watson said,

 

"Hes the best"

 

 

Who are we to argue?

 

; )

 

Doesnt matter if you say, well TW was playing his best when they said it. Thats the point. They had seen TW play for 10 years, they played with Jack, and said Tigers the best.

 

 

Jack gets the goat title. But TW is the best to ever tee it up.

 

Howd we get on this topic again?

 

 

 

 

[jay65]

If Trevino said,

 

"Tigers better"

 

And, of TW, Watson said,

 

"Hes the best"

 

 

Who are we to argue?

 

; )

 

Doesnt matter if you say, well TW was playing his best when they said it. Thats the point. They had seen TW play for 10 years, they played with Jack, and said Tigers the best.

 

 

Jack gets the goat title. But TW is the best to ever tee it up.

 

Howd we get on this topic again?

 

And Player said Jack was the best. Arnie probably wouldn't commit, because he was a Gentleman. So where does this all leave us? At the University of Subjectivity I reckon.

[cdnglf]

He has already won more individual events than Snead. And 8 more than Jack. Jack has the most majors, and likely always will.

 

 

Jack also had 19 runners up finishes at the majors throughout his career. Tiger by comparison has had 6 runners up finishes in majors his entire career.

 

 

That in my opinion just shows Nicklaus was much more dominant and consistent than Tiger ever was by a long shot.

All relative to competition, and it was definitely lacking. 5-10 great players in jack's era with 20 or so notables. 20-30 great players in and throughout the Tiger era and at least 100 more notable ones. Easy for a big fish to APPEAR even bigger in that small of a pond, but put him in lake and see the greatness vastly diminished. Take half the GOOD field out for Tiger in his hey-day and see that win total in a whole new light....

 

Jack might be the GREATEST golfer in history in terms of accomplishment, but TW is the BEST golfer of all time based on sheer skill level and shot making ability. Anybody that doubts this is fooling themselves, and it would've been embarrassing for THAT 'field' to have seen his skill set come along several decades earlier, had he been born sooner.

 

Your hear this argument a lot but if you go look at some ratings of the top 20 or 25 players of all time and see how many are from each era of golf, I don't think it holds even a tiny bit of water.

 

Neither do I. 20-30 'Great players' from Tigers' era? Really?? I mean, define 'Great'. That's subjective enough, but if you say the likes of Player, Palmer, Trevino, Watson, Miller, Weiskopf etc from Jacks' era, where are these 20-30 players of equal standing as these guys that Tiger went up against? Mickelson? Maybe, Els? Probably, but after about half a dozen I seriously struggle to find any more from Tigers' era that could hold a torch to the likes of Trevino, Player, Palmer, Watson etc. I mean who are we going to have to start putting into that list of 20-30 'Greats'? Garcia? Kite? Couples? I mean come on! They're not even in the same ballpark as those listed above that Jack had to play against.

 

We can argue all day about this, and if you give 20 people the chance to come up with a lit of 'Greats' all 20 lists will be different somewhere. But I know which side of the fence of this discussion I stand.

 

Not sure what to make of someone who considers Miller and Weiskopf "greats" but Ernie Els only a "maybe" and doesn't even mention Vijay Singh.

[bscinstnct]

If Trevino said,

 

"Tigers better"

 

And, of TW, Watson said,

 

"Hes the best"

 

 

Who are we to argue?

 

; )

 

Doesnt matter if you say, well TW was playing his best when they said it. Thats the point. They had seen TW play for 10 years, they played with Jack, and said Tigers the best.

 

 

Jack gets the goat title. But TW is the best to ever tee it up.

 

Howd we get on this topic again?

 

And Player said Jack was the best. Arnie probably wouldn't commit, because he was a Gentleman. So where does this all leave us? At the University of Subjectivity I reckon.

 

Only with respect to whos the "best". Jack has the number 18, that makes him the goat, numbers dont lie.

 

It seems that from Byron Nelson comments about TW having "no weaknesses", I think Watson said similar, and Trevino giving TW an edge on wedge game/jack not being a great wedge player, the assesment is that TW is the most complete golfer to ever play.

 

Then again, I think people say Jack wasnt a great wedge player because he didnt need to be ; )

 

Btw, I havent seen the player quote before. Do you know what he said?