Gamesmanship- Artform or Annoying

[Caddykev]

Last summer I had the privilege of playing with Hawkeye twice and I saw some incredibly effective gamesmanship from him. In two cases, I hit a good drive on the first hole.

 

He said "nice shot."

 

And then I proceeded to suck for the remainder of the round.

 

He is good. You are warned.

Being that we are probably never going to play together I'm not to worried about it. Were you afraid he was going to say nice shot again and folded haha I'm sure he is a good player, not doubting that. I thought golfwrx was like shawshank where everyone is innocent but instead a stick in golf haha.

[DavePelz4]

Last summer I had the privilege of playing with Hawkeye twice and I saw some incredibly effective gamesmanship from him. In two cases, I hit a good drive on the first hole.

 

He said "nice shot."

 

And then I proceeded to suck for the remainder of the round.

 

He is good. You are warned.

Being that we are probably never going to play together I'm not to worried about it. Were you afraid he was going to say nice shot again and folded haha I'm sure he is a good player, not doubting that. I thought golfwrx was like shawshank where everyone is innocent but instead a stick in golf haha.

 

Respectfully, that was tongue in cheek.

 

And for the record, I'd play with Hawk anytime, anywhere. Not sure you'd find a better guy to play with anywhere.

[taporsnap17]

Last summer I had the privilege of playing with Hawkeye twice and I saw some incredibly effective gamesmanship from him. In two cases, I hit a good drive on the first hole.

 

He said "nice shot."

 

And then I proceeded to suck for the remainder of the round.

 

He is good. You are warned.

 

Unfortunately it works on me :-(

 

I was playing well a few weeks ago. Like strung together about 5 real good holes. I knew I was on to a good thing looking at my card, but didn't want to think or dwell on it. Then one of the guys in my group mentioned it and I had to engage in a bit of conversation about it. Double bogey city... for the next 4 odd holes. It's one reason why I don't keep a running tally. Just go by "feel". It wasn't a comp.

[taporsnap17]

A balm for weaker players.

 

Agreed.

Disagree, the best players in the world do it all the time. Your telling me tiger didn't purposely pull that wood while Sergio was about to hit at the players that time. He knew the crowd would react, and knew that Sergio is that fragile. Tiger employed his gallery a lot early on in his dominance. Also Jimenez owned Keegan in the match play s couple years back to the point that Keegan even admitted he was schooled by the elder. Not sure these are weak players.

 

Jimenez knew what he was doing... but by that token, he was also well within his rights to ask and make sure the correct drop or whatever was taken. I gave him a clap for a excellent piece of work

I agree, it was a stroke of genius that Keegan later on even admitted to.

 

My only issue with that was realistically, they didn't have anything to play for beyond bragging rights. Both had been eliminated from the knockout stages. I would've just gone about my business so I could get out of there as fast as I could. But to each their own

[DavePelz4]

Last summer I had the privilege of playing with Hawkeye twice and I saw some incredibly effective gamesmanship from him. In two cases, I hit a good drive on the first hole.

 

He said "nice shot."

 

And then I proceeded to suck for the remainder of the round.

 

He is good. You are warned.

 

Unfortunately it works on me :-(

 

I was playing well a few weeks ago. Like strung together about 5 real good holes. I knew I was on to a good thing looking at my card, but didn't want to think or dwell on it. Then one of the guys in my group mentioned it and I had to engage in a bit of conversation about it. Double bogey city... for the next 4 odd holes. It's one reason why I don't keep a running tally. Just go by "feel". It wasn't a comp.

 

OK...I'm so teasing. Hawkeye was doing nothing but being nice and my post was nothing but being a smart arse. Please don't think anything bad about him or the situation...he is AWESOME to golf with!

[3woodvt]

Being gracious when losing is the greatest attribute in golf IMO. Bragging on your competitor's accomplishment when you lose will make you the most respected golfer around and mean more than any wins you can achieve. Try it, it will not only change your life but others around you as well.

 

It's kinda like bragging about someone else's kid to their parents, will make you a hero in their eyes.

[Caddykev]

Last summer I had the privilege of playing with Hawkeye twice and I saw some incredibly effective gamesmanship from him. In two cases, I hit a good drive on the first hole.

 

He said "nice shot."

 

And then I proceeded to suck for the remainder of the round.

 

He is good. You are warned.

Being that we are probably never going to play together I'm not to worried about it. Were you afraid he was going to say nice shot again and folded haha I'm sure he is a good player, not doubting that. I thought golfwrx was like shawshank where everyone is innocent but instead a stick in golf haha.

 

Respectfully, that was tongue in cheek.

 

And for the record, I'd play with Hawk anytime, anywhere. Not sure you'd find a better guy to play with anywhere.

I figured it was, it's hard to gage delivery on the internet as you prob either saw or missed in mine. I'm sure he is, never said otherwise. Was just joking about your warning and how were prob never gonna play. No bigee.

[Sawgrass]

Giving the short ones early on and making people putt out isn't really. The match it tight, things happen. Throw in a line of "You've been yippy the last few holes" or "I see a bit of a break on this one..." now that's gamesmanship of the highest order :D

 

If a nice opponent said, "I see a bit of a break on this one" I'd absolutely not mind at all and stay silent.

 

If a guy who had clearly been trying to annoy me said it, I'd give some consideration to picking up my ball, claiming the hole and saying, "I love Rule 8-1a" as I walked off the green.

[DavePelz4]

Giving the short ones early on and making people putt out isn't really. The match it tight, things happen. Throw in a line of "You've been yippy the last few holes" or "I see a bit of a break on this one..." now that's gamesmanship of the highest order :D

 

If a nice opponent said, "I see a bit of a break on this one" I'd absolutely not mind at all and stay silent.

 

If a guy who had clearly been trying to annoy me said it, I'd give some consideration to picking up my ball, claiming the hole and saying, "I love Rule 8-1a" as I walked off the green.

You are the pro but isn't that first comment a violation of 8-1?

[Sawgrass]

Giving the short ones early on and making people putt out isn't really. The match it tight, things happen. Throw in a line of "You've been yippy the last few holes" or "I see a bit of a break on this one..." now that's gamesmanship of the highest order :D

 

If a nice opponent said, "I see a bit of a break on this one" I'd absolutely not mind at all and stay silent.

 

If a guy who had clearly been trying to annoy me said it, I'd give some consideration to picking up my ball, claiming the hole and saying, "I love Rule 8-1a" as I walked off the green.

You are the pro but isn't that first comment a violation of 8-1?

 

It might very well be, but I don't think it would universally be viewed that way so I picked on what seems to me to be inescapably putting advice. (If one wanted to push it they might ask, "I'm not sure what you're saying" and see where it heads.)

 

I think it's a tough call to determine what "you've been yippy" is meant to convey. The guy could have meant, "You missed the last couple of putts, you'll probably miss the next" which isn't advice. Or he could have meant, "You should control your arms better" which would be.

[Guia]

I am not adverse to gamesmanship if it is not aggressive. Get into your opponents head, put pressure on him/her, tell them of their unlucky breaks, compliment their mediocre drives, ask them if they are feeling okay, tell them that their lie effected their shot. Heck tell them their baby is ugly.

[taporsnap17]

Last summer I had the privilege of playing with Hawkeye twice and I saw some incredibly effective gamesmanship from him. In two cases, I hit a good drive on the first hole.

 

He said "nice shot."

 

And then I proceeded to suck for the remainder of the round.

 

He is good. You are warned.

 

Unfortunately it works on me :-(

 

I was playing well a few weeks ago. Like strung together about 5 real good holes. I knew I was on to a good thing looking at my card, but didn't want to think or dwell on it. Then one of the guys in my group mentioned it and I had to engage in a bit of conversation about it. Double bogey city... for the next 4 odd holes. It's one reason why I don't keep a running tally. Just go by "feel". It wasn't a comp.

 

OK...I'm so teasing. Hawkeye was doing nothing but being nice and my post was nothing but being a smart arse. Please don't think anything bad about him or the situation...he is AWESOME to golf with!

 

Wasn't taking it seriously at all. I was stating a fact that I try not to think too much of it if I can. Keeps me on the "It's all about the next shot" mentality

[sui generis]

Giving the short ones early on and making people putt out isn't really. The match it tight, things happen. Throw in a line of "You've been yippy the last few holes" or "I see a bit of a break on this one..." now that's gamesmanship of the highest order :D

 

If a nice opponent said, "I see a bit of a break on this one" I'd absolutely not mind at all and stay silent.

 

If a guy who had clearly been trying to annoy me said it, I'd give some consideration to picking up my ball, claiming the hole and saying, "I love Rule 8-1a" as I walked off the green.

You are the pro but isn't that first comment a violation of 8-1?

 

Quite possibly, but remember that in match play if you see your opponent breach a Rule? You may silently disregard the breach, or you must make your claim before starting the next hole.

[Caddykev]

Giving the short ones early on and making people putt out isn't really. The match it tight, things happen. Throw in a line of "You've been yippy the last few holes" or "I see a bit of a break on this one..." now that's gamesmanship of the highest order :D

 

If a nice opponent said, "I see a bit of a break on this one" I'd absolutely not mind at all and stay silent.

 

If a guy who had clearly been trying to annoy me said it, I'd give some consideration to picking up my ball, claiming the hole and saying, "I love Rule 8-1a" as I walked off the green.

That's the spirit sawgrass. Not personally, but some guys I have caddied for are afraid of playing with a person that knows the rules as well as you in match play. I don't understand why, but the one guy complained later to me that he felt like the guy he was playing against was watching his every move even though he was doing nothing wrong. Needless to say he lost, but others in his group that day said the same of playing with the one guy. Some of these guys are so fragile.

[Francois]

His intent was never to hit the 3 wood.

 

You know this for a fact ?

Telepathy? Or perhaps.he told you.

 

Myself, my dad and the commentators all said the same thing the moment he pulled that fairway wood. Would this suffice or are you just in the mood for a childish argument?

[smeech8000]

His intent was never to hit the 3 wood.

 

You know this for a fact ?

Telepathy? Or perhaps.he told you.

 

Myself, my dad and the commentators all said the same thing the moment he pulled that fairway wood. Would this suffice or are you just in the mood for a childish argument?

 

I interpreted it as an allusion to the fact that it is extremely difficult if not impossible to prove intent - the player should typically be taken at his/her word.

 

This concept is reinforced by numerous cases where the rules explicitly require the player to announce their intent before acting so that assumption and judgment aren't involved (e.g. 12-2, lifting ball to identify, and playing two balls under 3-3).

[Hawkeye77]

Last summer I had the privilege of playing with Hawkeye twice and I saw some incredibly effective gamesmanship from him. In two cases, I hit a good drive on the first hole.

 

He said "nice shot."

 

And then I proceeded to suck for the remainder of the round.

 

He is good. You are warned.

 

LOL, have to be good at saying "nice shot" when playing with you! I'd be a failure at getting in people's heads, just out there to enjoy the course and fellow golfers.

 

Saw some shots of yours at TPC Deere Seve would have applauded.

 

Summer can't get here fast enough.

[Sawgrass]

His intent was never to hit the 3 wood.

 

You know this for a fact ?

Telepathy? Or perhaps.he told you.

 

Myself, my dad and the commentators all said the same thing the moment he pulled that fairway wood. Would this suffice or are you just in the mood for a childish argument?

 

I interpreted it as an allusion to the fact that it is extremely difficult if not impossible to prove intent - the player should typically be taken at his/her word.

 

This concept is reinforced by numerous cases where the rules explicitly require the player to announce their intent before acting so that assumption and judgment aren't involved (e.g. 12-2, lifting ball to identify, and playing two balls under 3-3).

 

My reaction to the whole story is that I don't care about VJ's intent. If his competitor, who was obligated to play first, tried to get a clandestine advantage based on observing VJ, it's his problem if he was fooled. That sort of gamesmanship by VJ, if that's in fact what it was, seems to me to only victimize those who might very well deserve it.

[OffTheDole]

In the case of the guys getting some beers and lighting up their usual cigars, I liken that to a form of personal motivation, like putting on a rally cap. Sure, it's gamesmanship by maybe the strictest definition, but if playing on the fact that your opponent is watching your every move and making him feel like you're not taking it seriously is enough to throw him off his game I don't know what to say about that person's competitive chops.

 

I think the examples of making opponents move their mark and hoping they fail to move it back is a sign of someone not worth playing a round of golf with in any setting, competitive or not. One of the greatest shows of sportsmanship in golf, in my opinion, actually involved a situation where it could have been that way but instead Steve Scott reminded Tiger Woods to replace his mark. Class all the way.

 

Where gamesmanship starts to go off the rails is in situations like the Solheim Cup where Suzann Pettersen caused the row over not explicitly conceding a short putt to Allison Lee, yet she and Charley Hull had already started walking off the green as if it were conceded. It's not worth re-litigating, but I feel that had Pettersen and Hull stuck around and forced Lee to putt, something they could have done with their silence and folded arms, it would have been considered excellent strategy and Lee would have been the goat instead of the victim-as-rallying-cry for the US team's improbable comeback.

 

From my high school playing days, as the leader of a scrappy golf team that had to string together four of our best scores just to compete, I had one move that could be considered gamesmanship: With everyone standing to watch us on the first tee, I would do

(later known as the "Happy Gilmore drive") that resulted in a surprisingly easily-controlled 220 yard high cut that often found the center of the fairway. The looks of "WTF?!" and "Your best player does that?!?" were priceless and, I like to think, gave all of us a little edge in our matches that helped contribute to some wins we may not have gotten otherwise.

 

And for the record, I think the following moves are bush league (and thus should only be used on your closest friends):

• Jingling change in your pocket and/or moving during your opponent's shot
  
• "Absentmindedly" walking in your opponent's line
  
• Asking about your opponent's wife
  
• Telling half of a story and saying you'll finish after your opponent hits his next shot
  
• Complimenting your opponent's swing
  

[Sawgrass]

 

 

From my high school playing days, as the leader of a scrappy golf team that had to string together four of our best scores just to compete, I had one move that could be considered gamesmanship: With everyone standing to watch us on the first tee, I would do

(later known as the "Happy Gilmore drive") that resulted in a surprisingly easily-controlled 220 yard high cut that often found the center of the fairway. The looks of "WTF?!" and "Your best player does that?!?" were priceless and, I like to think, gave all of us a little edge in our matches that helped contribute to some wins we may not have gotten otherwise.

 

A kinder, gentler form of "gamesmanship" sometimes confused with outright entertainment! Bring it on!

[jmkenn0]

People love to slow play me because I'm one of, if not the, fastest players at my club. Luckily my usual partner is probably the slowest human being on the planet, so I'm use to it - I just sit back, have a cocktail, fiddle with the radio ( :fie: ), and silently laugh as they putz around.

[Hawkeye77]

Hull - Pettersen not gamesmanship.

 

Allison Lee made a** out of u and me - see Odd Couple.

[LeoLeo99]

Hull - Pettersen not gamesmanship.

 

Allison Lee made a** out of u and me - see Odd Couple.

 

Not this again.

[b.helts]

"I've never, in all my life, seen a guy blink during their backswing. You do it every time. Veeeerrry impressive!"

[Hawkeye77]

Hull - Pettersen not gamesmanship.

 

Allison Lee made a** out of u and me - see Odd Couple.

 

Not this again.

 

Somebody mentioned it above, just a short reply. Looks like he got Alison's name spelled wrong, also, I followed blindly.

 

Speaking of - Solheim Cup at Des Moines Golf this year. Just a reminder to order tickets, see who wants to go later. Fun.

[taporsnap17]

Giving the short ones early on and making people putt out isn't really. The match it tight, things happen. Throw in a line of "You've been yippy the last few holes" or "I see a bit of a break on this one..." now that's gamesmanship of the highest order :D

 

If a nice opponent said, "I see a bit of a break on this one" I'd absolutely not mind at all and stay silent.

 

If a guy who had clearly been trying to annoy me said it, I'd give some consideration to picking up my ball, claiming the hole and saying, "I love Rule 8-1a" as I walked off the green.

 

Ok.. I had to actually look up the rule. What does the comment have to do with stepping on/straddling the line?

 

It's one of those mind games things that come up as a bit of gamesmanship. Try to put a few demons in a opponent's head. I'm with you, it's within the rules and they're not being rude about it and it's within their rights. Just gotta try to sink the putt and shut them up!

[taporsnap17]

Giving the short ones early on and making people putt out isn't really. The match it tight, things happen. Throw in a line of "You've been yippy the last few holes" or "I see a bit of a break on this one..." now that's gamesmanship of the highest order :D

 

If a nice opponent said, "I see a bit of a break on this one" I'd absolutely not mind at all and stay silent.

 

If a guy who had clearly been trying to annoy me said it, I'd give some consideration to picking up my ball, claiming the hole and saying, "I love Rule 8-1a" as I walked off the green.

You are the pro but isn't that first comment a violation of 8-1?

 

It might very well be, but I don't think it would universally be viewed that way so I picked on what seems to me to be inescapably putting advice. (If one wanted to push it they might ask, "I'm not sure what you're saying" and see where it heads.)

 

I think it's a tough call to determine what "you've been yippy" is meant to convey. The guy could have meant, "You missed the last couple of putts, you'll probably miss the next" which isn't advice. Or he could have meant, "You should control your arms better" which would be.

 

Every comment is open interpretation. Though I'd like to think controlling ones arms would be common sense and thus not constitute advice. For the record, if I ever say it to any one of you, I mean "You missed the last couple of putts, you'll probably miss the next".. If a FC lacks control in their arms, I'd probably further encourage the continuance of such behaviour.

 

Would "There could be a break in that putt, I want to see you hit it [please]" pass the sniff test?

[Guia]

Jingling change and moving around...........Sounds like Seve.

[Sawgrass]

Giving the short ones early on and making people putt out isn't really. The match it tight, things happen. Throw in a line of "You've been yippy the last few holes" or "I see a bit of a break on this one..." now that's gamesmanship of the highest order :D

 

If a nice opponent said, "I see a bit of a break on this one" I'd absolutely not mind at all and stay silent.

 

If a guy who had clearly been trying to annoy me said it, I'd give some consideration to picking up my ball, claiming the hole and saying, "I love Rule 8-1a" as I walked off the green.

You are the pro but isn't that first comment a violation of 8-1?

 

It might very well be, but I don't think it would universally be viewed that way so I picked on what seems to me to be inescapably putting advice. (If one wanted to push it they might ask, "I'm not sure what you're saying" and see where it heads.)

 

I think it's a tough call to determine what "you've been yippy" is meant to convey. The guy could have meant, "You missed the last couple of putts, you'll probably miss the next" which isn't advice. Or he could have meant, "You should control your arms better" which would be.

 

Every comment is open interpretation. Though I'd like to think controlling ones arms would be common sense and thus not constitute advice. For the record, if I ever say it to any one of you, I mean "You missed the last couple of putts, you'll probably miss the next".. If a FC lacks control in their arms, I'd probably further encourage the continuance of such behaviour.

 

Would "There could be a break in that putt, I want to see you hit it [please]" pass the sniff test?

 

I believe CaddyKev will approve of this: Rather than answer you, I'd prefer get in your head and let you worry about it. :derisive:

[OffTheDole]

Somebody mentioned it above, just a short reply. Looks like he got Alison's name spelled wrong, also, I followed blindly

 

My apologies to Alison Lee. I normally check to make sure but I was too proud of myself for getting Pettersen's name right.