Gamesmanship- Artform or Annoying

[Caddykev]

Growing up playing with some older characters, the art of gamesmanship that I experienced prepared me for anything in competive golf. I learned how to read opponents, and how to spot their attempts to derail me. I'll never forget a kid in junior college constantly asking the players in our group to move our ballmarkers even when they were definitely outside of his line and forgetting to remind us to put them back, I called him out on it after a couple of holes but it rattled the kid from another college in our group and he never recovered in that round. Now that my competitive days are over and I caddy in the summer in Long Island, I was shocked by how easily some guys were easily defeated by not having a putt conceded, or just paying to much attention to their opponents play. A couple of years ago I was caddying for s couple of new members that were definitely nervous playing their first opponents in the member member. They asked me for any advice on match play so I sized up our superior competition. After we were down 2 on 8, I decided to throw in my two cents and have them employ some gamesmanship. The two gentlemen we were playing were very serious, and we had in my opinion been too generous with gimmes. I told my one player to get his normal beers, and my other guy to finally fire up his cigar. The crack of the can def rattled the one guy by the look he gave once he had heard it, and saw the bag of beers dropped by the bag. I had also overheard them talk about how much they hated cigars so I knew it would also annoy them a bit. Needless to say we got back to even by 16, and I told my guy to run into the clubhouse quick to get some more beers. We ended up winning the match to guys we would have lost to easily 5 and 4 on that day. I personally thought it was the right move to change the eb and flow of the match, but I know others will agree. Weeks later I knew it worked when I caddied for one of the opponents and he couldn't believe my player would drink that much in a match. Just curious, what's everyone's take on gamesmanship, is it an artform and apart of the game or annoying, and something you hate.

[Caddykev]

Meant to say others will disagree.

[MadGolfer76]

A balm for weaker players.

[Sean2]

I don't engage in gamesmanship. I think it's childish. If someone tries it with me I just ignore it.

[LeoLeo99]

It can be both annoying and an art form.

 

Asking someone to move their mark hoping they won't move it back is annoying to say the least.

[Sawgrass]

I think you're on a crusade to ruin golf.

 

Read the first section in the Rules, particularly this segment (I added the underline):

 

The Spirit of the Game

 

Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

[golfandfishing]

A balm for weaker players.

 

Agreed.

[farmer]

The one guy is rattled by beer drinking during a round of golf? The other by a cigar out in the open? Seriously? These guys must play by themselves in a dome. To topic, gamesmanship is BS of the lowest order, and I've seen it bite practitioners in the Word not allowed.

[RSinSG]

I worry about my own game. Attempts to rattle me by silly tricks are not very successful. It's not that I'm a great golfer with a steel will, it's just that I can see what the guy is trying to do and it's comical. It's a giveaway they lack confidence in their ability to beat you with their golf game.

 

Some people I play with annoy me without even trying. They have such a herky-jerky swing I avert my eyes just in case it somehow rubs off. I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to getting out of my "zone." I don't need any help.

[aliikane]

Some gamesmanship is strategy, some annoying, and some downright disrespectful. Not conceding a putt to me is a good example of good gamesmanship. Every player should have it in their mind to hole out every hole. Losing a match because you were frustrated that your opponent didn't concede you a two foot putt has their mental focus on the wrong things.

 

However, some guys go way too far to distract you or try to make you hit poor shots. That is when tournament golf gets really disrespectful and petty. Everyone should give respect to players when hitting shots. If you are stalking the guy on the course to research every weakness he has to use against him that would constitute crossing the the line. :)

[Caddykev]

The one guy is rattled by beer drinking during a round of golf? The other by a cigar out in the open? Seriously? These guys must play by themselves in a dome. To topic, gamesmanship is BS of the lowest order, and I've seen it bite practitioners in the Word not allowed.

No, some people are that stiff at some country clubs. I have also seen both as well.

[Caddykev]

Some gamesmanship is strategy, some annoying, and some downright disrespectful. Not conceding a putt to me is a good example of good gamesmanship. Every player should have it in their mind to hole out every hole. Losing a match because you were frustrated that your opponent didn't concede you a two foot putt has their mental focus on the wrong things.

 

However, some guys go way too far to distract you or try to make you hit poor shots. That is when tournament golf gets really disrespectful and petty. Everyone should give respect to players when hitting shots. If you are stalking the guy on the course to research every weakness he has to use against him that would constitute crossing the the line. :)

I agree, expect to putt everything out. I agree that there is a difference in gamesmanship. Some people are outright disrespectful. Heard a story about ken bakst in the Atlantic club championship final purposefully teeing off on the 10th before his opponent even though he had lost the hole, then conceding after the young kid called him on it, and saying something like you shouldn't be beating me and let's go to the next. That is not gamesmanship to me, that is just obnoxious and crossing the line. It worked for him, and maybe that kind of ruthlessness is why he won the mid am.

[Caddykev]

I think you're on a crusade to ruin golf.

 

Read the first section in the Rules, particularly this segment (I added the underline):

 

The Spirit of the Game

 

Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

You got me, I'm a one man army trying to ruin golf. Haha. There's a line between gamesmanship and being a rule breaker or cheater. You can employ gamesmanship while still showing sportsmanship to your opponent.

[Mitchell]

With my group of usual suspects, selective application of the needle is expected, gamesmanship in order to not allow player opportunity to fairly compete on equal footing is not.

[Caddykev]

A balm for weaker players.

 

Agreed.

Disagree, the best players in the world do it all the time. Your telling me tiger didn't purposely pull that wood while Sergio was about to hit at the players that time. He knew the crowd would react, and knew that Sergio is that fragile. Tiger employed his gallery a lot early on in his dominance. Also Jimenez owned Keegan in the match play s couple years back to the point that Keegan even admitted he was schooled by the elder. Not sure these are weak players.

[Dr.Frankenputz]

One jackWord not allowed in my golf league (who definitely knows better) "accidentally" will walk in your line, talk while his opponent is putting, etc. I try to focus on my own game during stuff like that, but have called him out for walking in my line after the 2nd or 3rd time.

Gamesmanship, when done right is probably an art. When obvious and when demonstrating poor etiquette, makes you look like a ******.

[Caddykev]

With my group of usual suspects, selective application of the needle is expected, gamesmanship in order to not allow player opportunity to fairly compete on equal footing is not.

What would an example of not allowing a player to compete fairly be? Curious.

[Sawgrass]

I think you're on a crusade to ruin golf.

 

Read the first section in the Rules, particularly this segment (I added the underline):

 

The Spirit of the Game

 

 

Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

You got me, I'm a one man army trying to ruin golf. Haha. There's a line between gamesmanship and being a rule breaker or cheater. You can employ gamesmanship while still showing sportsmanship to your opponent.

 

I didn't call you a rule breaker or a cheat.

 

Nevertheless IMO you can not employ gamesmanship and still call yourself courteous, or a for that matter a good sport. Hey, you asked.

[Caddykev]

One jackWord not allowed in my golf league (who definitely knows better) "accidentally" will walk in your line, talk while his opponent is putting, etc. I try to focus on my own game during stuff like that, but have called him out for walking in my line after the 2nd or 3rd time.

Gamesmanship, when done right is probably an art. When obvious and when demonstrating poor etiquette, makes you look like a ******.

Agreed, poor ettiquete is crossing the line in my opinion as well.

[LeoLeo99]

Been a long time since I've played tournament golf. I can't remember anyone ever crossing a line with regard to gamesmanship. I remember losing on the 20th hole in a big match when I hooked an 8 iron into a pond against a much older opponent that was about 4 clubs shorter than me but had 4 times my short game.

 

Someone pulled some crap in a high school match but that was easily handled on the course.

[Mitchell]

With my group of usual suspects, selective application of the needle is expected, gamesmanship in order to not allow player opportunity to fairly compete on equal footing is not.

What would an example of not allowing a player to compete fairly be? Curious.

Attempts to distract while opponent is in pre-shot routine or at address would be a glaring example. Great players conduct themselves with class and that has very little to do with playing ability and everything to do with respect for themselves and others.

 

[Caddykev]

I think you're on a crusade to ruin golf.

 

Read the first section in the Rules, particularly this segment (I added the underline):

 

The Spirit of the Game

 

 

Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

You got me, I'm a one man army trying to ruin golf. Haha. There's a line between gamesmanship and being a rule breaker or cheater. You can employ gamesmanship while still showing sportsmanship to your opponent.

 

I didn't call you a rule breaker or a cheat.

 

Nevertheless IMO you can not employ gamesmanship and still call yourself courteous, or a for that matter a good sport. Hey, you asked.

Didn't say you did, but you can still have proper etiquette, be completely courteous, and a good sportsman while employing gamesmanship. Your telling me you can't in a match and that's ridiculous. If I'm down and the other player plays quick so I start playing a bit slower, or maybe start forcing hole outs from even a tap in that all of a sudden your not a good sport? A poor sport walks in lines, doesn't say nice shot, takes the honor when it's not his, or walks off the green before you putt out. Two different things in my opinion but to each his own.

[Caddykev]

With my group of usual suspects, selective application of the needle is expected, gamesmanship in order to not allow player opportunity to fairly compete on equal footing is not.

What would an example of not allowing a player to compete fairly be? Curious.

Attempts to distract while opponent is in pre-shot routine or at address would be a glaring example. Great players conduct themselves with class and that has very little to do with playing ability and everything to do with respect for themselves and others.

That is obnoxious and I wouldn't consider that gamesmanship. Played with a kid in college that would walk off the green before the group putted out, and would start walking if he teed off before the rest of us. After a couple of holes we had words. That was him being a dick, not gamesmanship.

[sheldonjhacker]

Ridiculous, Annoying, and Bush League. Just play your game and let me play mine, and we'll add it up over a beer in the clubhouse.

[KYMAR]

So do you guys breath in or breath out on your back swing?

[Sawgrass]

I think you're on a crusade to ruin golf.

 

Read the first section in the Rules, particularly this segment (I added the underline):

 

The Spirit of the Game

 

 

Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

You got me, I'm a one man army trying to ruin golf. Haha. There's a line between gamesmanship and being a rule breaker or cheater. You can employ gamesmanship while still showing sportsmanship to your opponent.

 

I didn't call you a rule breaker or a cheat.

 

Nevertheless IMO you can not employ gamesmanship and still call yourself courteous, or a for that matter a good sport. Hey, you asked.

Didn't say you did, but you can still have proper etiquette, be completely courteous, and a good sportsman while employing gamesmanship. Your telling me you can't in a match and that's ridiculous. If I'm down and the other player plays quick so I start playing a bit slower, or maybe start forcing hole outs from even a tap in that all of a sudden your not a good sport? A poor sport walks in lines, doesn't say nice shot, takes the honor when it's not his, or walks off the green before you putt out. Two different things in my opinion but to each his own.

 

I understand your definition of being a good sport, I just disagree. You asked, and I can tell you that I am not the only person who would conclude that your suggestions to your players as described in the OP were less than classy. IMO if they wanted help winning I'd offer course management and putting advice.

 

Here's good sportsmanship:

Search for your opponent's ball to help them win or loose as players.

Stay silent and motionless in a good spot while your opponent is making a stroke or preparing.

Acknowledge an opponents fine shot.

[augustgolf]

So do you guys breath in or breath out on your back swing?

 

I fart....both in and out

[Caddykev]

So do you guys breath in or breath out on your back swing?

 

I fart....both in and out

Haha. Is a silent but deadly on the tee box gamesmanship?

[Mitchell]

Caddykev,

What is your personal definition of gamesmanship? Examples of acceptable gamesmanship would be helpful.

[Caddykev]

I think you're on a crusade to ruin golf.

 

Read the first section in the Rules, particularly this segment (I added the underline):

 

The Spirit of the Game

 

 

Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

You got me, I'm a one man army trying to ruin golf. Haha. There's a line between gamesmanship and being a rule breaker or cheater. You can employ gamesmanship while still showing sportsmanship to your opponent.

 

I didn't call you a rule breaker or a cheat.

 

Nevertheless IMO you can not employ gamesmanship and still call yourself courteous, or a for that matter a good sport. Hey, you asked.

Didn't say you did, but you can still have proper etiquette, be completely courteous, and a good sportsman while employing gamesmanship. Your telling me you can't in a match and that's ridiculous. If I'm down and the other player plays quick so I start playing a bit slower, or maybe start forcing hole outs from even a tap in that all of a sudden your not a good sport? A poor sport walks in lines, doesn't say nice shot, takes the honor when it's not his, or walks off the green before you putt out. Two different things in my opinion but to each his own.

 

I understand your definition of being a good sport, I just disagree. You asked, and I can tell you that I am not the only person who would conclude that your suggestions to your players as described in the OP were less than classy. IMO if they wanted help winning I'd offer course management and putting advice.

 

Here's good sportsmanship:

Search for your opponent's ball to help them win or loose as players.

Stay silent and motionless in a good spot while your opponent is making a stroke or preparing.

Acknowledge an opponents fine shot.

We did all of that, including keeping the pace of play up. We were on top of the group in font of us all day so my guy could get a beer on 16 during the wait. Noticing two stiiff opponents and having two players that were not being themselves prompted my action. Nothing outside the rules or ettiquete. If a beer was opened during a backswing I could see it be unclassy but that never occurred. I prompted the question and you've given your piece and I respect what you've had to say on the topic but I still disagree, as you probably always will as well.