USGA Proposes to Modernize Rules of Golf

[Frankensteins Monster]

I'd be open to two types of OB. Internal and external. Internal OB is for protection, I would propose a 1 stroke penalty to move the ball back in play 1 club length from nearest OB line. External OB would be off the grounds, this would be a 2 stroke penalty, same rule applies. Golfers shouldn't be penalized because someone couldn't afford more land. Jack would agree with me, he has said in the past, "Internal OB means you didn't buy enough land." At least then if a hole has OB on both you can err on the internal side and take a lesser penalty due to safety of nearby golfers.

 

Or possibly even a bit of a fun rule for external OB which is 2-strokes to drop at point of entry, or 1stroke to mulligan from spot you hit from. That way if you're stymied at point of entry, you can opt to go back and try again for better position.

 

Internal OB is for the protection of both the player and others on the course that might be in that area where the ball ended up. I don't see 1 stroke and no distance as much of an incentive to avoid the risk of ending up in that area.

 

I sympathize (since my tee game is the worst part of my game and I'm as likely to end up OB as anyone) but the primary goal is to simplify the rules and even I can't agree with added complexity just for the sake of making the game easier to play.

 

I've played on courses where 10ft off the fairway it's OB. That's stupid.

 

It may very well be stupid. I've played on courses with ridiculous pin placements and green speeds, horrible layouts, cement bunkers, and outrageously bad turf conditions. That's not the fault of the ruling bodies nor (IMO) the responsibility of the rules to fix such problems. If you dont' like the course, don't give them any of your money.

 

And all of those things you mentioned, you're not penalized by walking back to where you hit from.

 

Stroke and distance is the stupidest rule in golf. Always has been and always will be.

 

As far as your last part about not playing there, many people don't have the luxury to play different courses.

[Frankensteins Monster]

So, move the whole golf course?

 

No, make it a penalty and drop with 80" of where it last crossed.

[mneumann]

The drop thing is ridiculous. If you are going to say drop from an inch just let the player place it and move on. Then I don't have to play the tee and measure game in case it's still going to roll away on a bank.

 

Playing devils advocate I'm going to hold the ball as high as I can above my head and drop it if they still allow the 2 drop and place thing and then it will roll away and I'll get to place it anyway.

[Frankensteins Monster]

The drop thing is ridiculous. If you are going to say drop from an inch just let the player place it and move on. Then I don't have to play the tee and measure game in case it's still going to roll away on a bank.

 

Playing devils advocate I'm going to hold the ball as high as I can above my head and drop it if they still allow the 2 drop and place thing and then it will roll away and I'll get to place it anyway.

 

Have fun doing that in a sand trap.

[Hawkeye77]

LOL, now back to the rules forum, guess the gurus (use the term with love) won't feel lost. All good.

 

Really looking forward to having time tonight to dive into this. Just kind of skimmed the drafts of the new rules and the player's edition of the new rules. Enjoying what I see.

 

Takeaways so far:

 

1. Yes, this is a major undertaking and will and should take some time to go through some very essential vetting, so people shouldn't be getting all short attention span theater over getting the changes enacted. It's a process.

 

2. Although predictable, and differences of opinion are great, the cries for taking the reform down the road of not playing the course as you find it (the old divots debate) and for eliminating stroke and distance for OB (it does not slow down play in any significant fashion and if you can't keep you ball in the boundaries of the course the penalty should be a little more severe for heaven's sake, take the extra stroke and move on with life) are arguments I won't ever get, but since the rules aren't changing in that regard don't want to get into a debate about it.

 

3. What I see so far, I really like. Agree with many the drop rule is a little odd, and there is some definitional/terminology stuff getting updated you have to look beyond the highlights to find that seem pretty progressive.

 

I'll keep renewing!

 

Just hold out every year until they send the big discount renewal offer and just the hat is worth $10 more than the renewal fee. Pretty good deal. Getting the new rules books in a couple years is something I'll look forward to.

[Hawkeye77]

If I understand correctly, (No guarantee on that) OB could be marked as a Penalty Area instead, potentially allowing drops other than where the previous stroke was made.

 

Under the new rules?

 

No.

[QEight]

Do we in the SI (not the magazine) world get meaningful drop limits or do we have to buy USGA certified rulers?

 

Circle-T dropmeter anyone?

[HatsForBats]

It may very well be stupid. I've played on courses with ridiculous pin placements and green speeds, horrible layouts, cement bunkers, and outrageously bad turf conditions. That's not the fault of the ruling bodies nor (IMO) the responsibility of the rules to fix such problems. If you dont' like the course, don't give them any of your money.

 

I agree with the 'If you dont' like the course, don't give them any of your money' approach. That is the approach I mostly use with the course closest to my home. I play a 9-hole league there for a total of about 12 to 14 9-hole rounds which to about 5% of my yearly play. They have very reachable OB on every hole and some holes have reachable OB on both sides of the holes. It is one of those courses where they built the housing at the same time and the course winds through the developments.

 

However, I wouldn't mind playing it more if there were more options for a course to deal with the O/B. It would be nice if courses had the option of a second type of OB where a drop with 1 stroke penalty was permitted. A course could choose to keep the O/B exactly as it is now or could change all or some of the holes to the new type of O/B. The caveat being that the course would need to be re-rated and they shouldn't just change the stakes willy nilly.

 

My thinking is more people would choose to suddenly play a course that they shun now than people would now choose to shun a course because they offered a secondary type of O/B. As long as it is eventually rated accordingly.

 

IDK, maybe it would create problems with the handicapping system?

[bladehunter]

Two strokes from last cross of the margin. I'm ok with that. Stroke and distance is the stupidest rule in the book.

 

To be honest, that approach wouldn't bother me but I can also understand the argument that OB is supposed to be more penal and the skill (or smarts) needed to avoid it is an integral part of the game.

 

But it still leaves the big question of how to handle S+D for a lost ball in an equitable fashion where there is no clearly defined boundary.

 

I've played on courses where 10ft off the fairway it's OB. That's stupid.

 

 

My home course has that for 250 yards down the right side of a par 5. I've hit it ob there more than I can count. Dumb as hell. But it's the property line. Heck it's only 10 yards off the green in the right side. It's a road.

[Dr Rangelove]

Still wish they would implement free relief from fairway divots.

 

I called their number and added that as a suggestion, I recommend as many of you as possible do the same.

[Jamie_Tee]

Golf without out of bounds is like ten pin bowling with the gutter rails up. It's supposed to be a game of skill.

[b.mattay]

Also, moving loose impediments in "penalty areas" and being able to ground your club and take practice swings, but not in sand.

 

I agree with most of the changes in general, but I find this one to be borderline insane. I don't think you should be able to take practice swings and move stones on the bank of a water hazard etc. This one is even worse than putting with the flagstick in IMO.

[b.mattay]

Still wish they would implement free relief from fairway divots.

 

I called their number and added that as a suggestion, I recommend as many of you as possible do the same.

 

They should absolutely not do that IMO. It's just bad luck if that happens, just as it is good luck when a drive hits a tree and bounces back in play etc.

[miket_81]

Most of them are great changes.

Especially S&D

[UCBananaboy]

Still wish they would implement free relief from fairway divots.

 

How could this possibly be implemented?

 

Per the proposed changes, I like quite a few of them..

 

I don't quite see what the challenge would be to implement this? We, as golfers, police ourselves. Why would it be any different if a player walks up to his ball and sees he's in a sand divot and takes relief; it would be no different than if he was in ground under repair.

[miket_81]

Two strokes from last cross of the margin. I'm ok with that. Stroke and distance is the stupidest rule in the book.

 

To be honest, that approach wouldn't bother me but I can also understand the argument that OB is supposed to be more penal and the skill (or smarts) needed to avoid it is an integral part of the game.

 

But it still leaves the big question of how to handle S+D for a lost ball in an equitable fashion where there is no clearly defined boundary.

 

I've played on courses where 10ft off the fairway it's OB. That's stupid.

 

 

My home course has that for 250 yards down the right side of a par 5. I've hit it ob there more than I can count. Dumb as hell. But it's the property line. Heck it's only 10 yards off the green in the right side. It's a road.

 

That's what people don't understand.

The always say "YOU HIT IT OFF THE COURSE!" as if you hit it 200 yards to the right.

We have a green that the back edge is close to the road that is OB. You can quite easily catch a flier and hit the back of it and go OB. I've done it several times.

[bkends35]

Yep, most of these are welcome changes IMO.

[ptambrosetti]

Remember everyone, complaining to each other on here SOLVES NOTHING. Call the number and let them know. The lady I spoke with this morning was incredibly friendly and was glad to take my 2 cents.

 

The number is 908-326-1850.

[Newby]

Still wish they would implement free relief from fairway divots.

 

I called their number and added that as a suggestion, I recommend as many of you as possible do the same.

Did you provide them with a clear definition? That is a pretty big hurdle.

[jmkenn0]

It may very well be stupid. I've played on courses with ridiculous pin placements and green speeds, horrible layouts, cement bunkers, and outrageously bad turf conditions. That's not the fault of the ruling bodies nor (IMO) the responsibility of the rules to fix such problems. If you dont' like the course, don't give them any of your money.

 

I agree with the 'If you dont' like the course, don't give them any of your money' approach. That is the approach I mostly use with the course closest to my home. I play a 9-hole league there for a total of about 12 to 14 9-hole rounds which to about 5% of my yearly play. They have very reachable OB on every hole and some holes have reachable OB on both sides of the holes. It is one of those courses where they built the housing at the same time and the course winds through the developments.

 

However, I wouldn't mind playing it more if there were more options for a course to deal with the O/B. It would be nice if courses had the option of a second type of OB where a drop with 1 stroke penalty was permitted. A course could choose to keep the O/B exactly as it is now or could change all or some of the holes to the new type of O/B. The caveat being that the course would need to be re-rated and they shouldn't just change the stakes willy nilly.

 

My thinking is more people would choose to suddenly play a course that they shun now than people would now choose to shun a course because they offered a secondary type of O/B. As long as it is eventually rated accordingly.

 

IDK, maybe it would create problems with the handicapping system?

 

Yeah in theory I would like to see S&D eliminated for lost balls/OB, but their definitely would be courses that have some problems if all of the sudden you just started banging away with your driver and played everything as a lateral (or I guess now just a "hazard").

 

If you only had a rule for lost balls, then you'd be arguing over whether the ball was lost or OB.

 

My home course has no OB, but it does have lots of natural grass areas that basically are OB because you never find balls in them. Would I like to see this played as a hazard? Sure, but I think it also takes some of the teeth away from the course.

[Newby]

I've played on courses where 10ft off the fairway it's OB. That's stupid.

 

The Course Rating allows for that.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

Remember everyone, complaining to each other on here SOLVES NOTHING. Call the number and let them know. The lady I spoke with this morning was incredibly friendly and was glad to take my 2 cents.

 

The number is 908-326-1850.

 

this is the best, most knowledgeable, and largest golf forum on the internet.....hopefully the usga is smart enough to click on the thread

[FairwaysToHeaven]

i like any attempt to simplify and condense rules....just playing devils advocate. i see a lot of suggestions in rule changes, but actually attempting to put that rule into writing without being vague or leave the rule open for interpretation is a pretty tough task.

 

 

 

LOST BALL: the problem is the ball is lost because the players in the group don't know where it went. the "most likely location" is a guess at best, and typically the ball is lost because your idea on that most likely location isn't correct. I've seen numerous times a guy looking for his ball in an area only to have someone else in the group who happened to watch the tee shot find it 30 yards back. dropping where you think it 'might' be works for the casual weekend round but not so sure under tournament conditions. i'd prefer dropping anywhere on the line of flight, but this still leaves distance forward up to a guess, unlike a lateral hazard where you're dropping at best guess of where it crossed hazard.

 

FAIRWAY DIVOT: impossible to determine what constitutes a divot during weekend play. A lot of these rules sound great in theory but you have to be specific or you're going to have a mess on your hands. If a rule is vague its an open invitation to abuse or needing a rules official after every shot.

 

SPIKE MARKS: again sounds great in theory...but a 30ft putt has a lot of imperfections that are open for a tour pro to tap down. is televised golf now going to include watching a tour pro tap tap tap tap tap ..............every little mark on their line? The good thing....hopefully players go ahead and putt out more often instead of marking when they are worried about their stance on an others through line.

 

DROP: why not just let a player place their ball when 'dropping'. whats the point of watching a guy hover the ball as close to ground as possible then drop it.

 

LASERS: i'm all for using lasers without slope, i just don't believe this will do much to speed up pros. they'll still have their yardage books out calculating distance they want to hit shot in reference to the front, flag, back, point on green, talk wind direction, type of shot, shape, etc....but yeah let'em use lasers. then who lasers....will the caddy laser the pin and then the player feel the need also take a look? will they each have a laser?

 

OB: i'd say keep OB marked, but only difference to a lateral hazard is that you are not allowed to play a shot from OB. i like the 1 shot / 2 shot suggestion for internal and external OB, but then this also has to be specifically marked for all OB. Not all courses is this completely obvious which it is.

[utkochster]

My club has local winter rule that allows putts with the pin left in. This does speed up play and preserves the turf around the cup. This is a good change.

 

 

[jmkenn0]

I think the concern about spending 20 minutes tapping down spikemarks would be taken care of by 40 second rule, in theory?

[Newby]

The USGA could do wonders at repairing their reputation by giving us back our sharp grooves and maybe eliminate some of the most penal rules like stroke and distance

 

 

 

i second that ... groove rule repealed would be a great start...ihave a box full of 300 and 400 series vokeys i cant use... and thats the best wedge shape ever...

 

 

as for the proposals here... leaving the flag in ?? what will that solve? and giving a commitee a blank check to issue stroke penalties of unknown number and or DQ for un specified behavior is a bad idea.... the commitee should always be able to be questioned without fear of DQ .... and repairing marks on greens? that will only lead to guys on TV spending 10 minutes doing landscapep maintenance on their line before every putt.... bad idea... and the short drop??/ why not just say place it ... thats what it is... relief from a bunker ? that could be a huge advantage for someone who hits into one of the huge OPEN bunker lips and takes 3-4 strokes to get out... not a fan of that rule either...

 

South Carolina Golf Association does not currently list post 2010 wedge grooves as a condition of competition.

 

As it says:

The Rules of Amateur Status and the Rules of Equipment Standards were not part of this review process.

[LeoLeo99]

i like any attempt to simplify and condense rules....just playing devils advocate. i see a lot of suggestions in rule changes, but actually attempting to put that rule into writing without being vague or leave the rule open for interpretation is a pretty tough task.

 

 

 

LOST BALL: the problem is the ball is lost because the players in the group don't know where it went. the "most likely location" is a guess at best, and typically the ball is lost because your idea on that most likely location isn't correct. I've seen numerous times a guy looking for his ball in an area only to have someone else in the group who happened to watch the tee shot find it 30 yards back. dropping where you think it 'might' be works for the casual weekend round but not so sure under tournament conditions. i'd prefer dropping anywhere on the line of flight, but this still leaves distance forward up to a guess, unlike a lateral hazard where you're dropping at best guess of where it crossed hazard.

 

FAIRWAY DIVOT: impossible to determine what constitutes a divot during weekend play. A lot of these rules sound great in theory but you have to be specific or you're going to have a mess on your hands. If a rule is vague its an open invitation to abuse or needing a rules official after every shot.

 

SPIKE MARKS: again sounds great in theory...but a 30ft putt has a lot of imperfections that are open for a tour pro to tap down. is televised golf now going to include watching a tour pro tap tap tap tap tap ..............every little mark on their line? The good thing....hopefully players go ahead and putt out more often instead of marking when they are worried about their stance on an others through line.

 

DROP: why not just let a player place their ball when 'dropping'. whats the point of watching a guy hover the ball as close to ground as possible then drop it.

 

LASERS: i'm all for using lasers without slope, i just don't believe this will do much to speed up pros. they'll still have their yardage books out calculating distance they want to hit shot in reference to the front, flag, back, point on green, talk wind direction, type of shot, shape, etc....but yeah let'em use lasers. then who lasers....will the caddy laser the pin and then the player feel the need also take a look? will they each have a laser?

 

OB: i'd say keep OB marked, but only difference to a lateral hazard is that you are not allowed to play a shot from OB. i like the 1 shot / 2 shot suggestion for internal and external OB, but then this also has to be specifically marked for all OB. Not all courses is this completely obvious which it is.

 

Will someone call into the rules officials that they saw some pro on TV drop from what they estimate to be 7/8 of an inch and they call all huddle around the TV to see if there was a rules infraction?

[rawdog]

i like any attempt to simplify and condense rules....just playing devils advocate. i see a lot of suggestions in rule changes, but actually attempting to put that rule into writing without being vague or leave the rule open for interpretation is a pretty tough task.

 

 

 

LOST BALL: the problem is the ball is lost because the players in the group don't know where it went. the "most likely location" is a guess at best, and typically the ball is lost because your idea on that most likely location isn't correct. I've seen numerous times a guy looking for his ball in an area only to have someone else in the group who happened to watch the tee shot find it 30 yards back. dropping where you think it 'might' be works for the casual weekend round but not so sure under tournament conditions. i'd prefer dropping anywhere on the line of flight, but this still leaves distance forward up to a guess, unlike a lateral hazard where you're dropping at best guess of where it crossed hazard.

 

FAIRWAY DIVOT: impossible to determine what constitutes a divot during weekend play. A lot of these rules sound great in theory but you have to be specific or you're going to have a mess on your hands. If a rule is vague its an open invitation to abuse or needing a rules official after every shot.

 

SPIKE MARKS: again sounds great in theory...but a 30ft putt has a lot of imperfections that are open for a tour pro to tap down. is televised golf now going to include watching a tour pro tap tap tap tap tap ..............every little mark on their line? The good thing....hopefully players go ahead and putt out more often instead of marking when they are worried about their stance on an others through line.

 

DROP: why not just let a player place their ball when 'dropping'. whats the point of watching a guy hover the ball as close to ground as possible then drop it.

 

LASERS: i'm all for using lasers without slope, i just don't believe this will do much to speed up pros. they'll still have their yardage books out calculating distance they want to hit shot in reference to the front, flag, back, point on green, talk wind direction, type of shot, shape, etc....but yeah let'em use lasers. then who lasers....will the caddy laser the pin and then the player feel the need also take a look? will they each have a laser?

 

OB: i'd say keep OB marked, but only difference to a lateral hazard is that you are not allowed to play a shot from OB. i like the 1 shot / 2 shot suggestion for internal and external OB, but then this also has to be specifically marked for all OB. Not all courses is this completely obvious which it is.

 

Will someone call into the rules officials that they saw some pro on TV drop from what they estimate to be 7/8 of an inch and they call all huddle around the TV to see if there was a rules infraction?

 

If they did, it would be a waste of their time, as 1" is only a suggestion, not the actual proposed rule. So 7/8" would be fine.

 

"The only requirement is for the player to hold the ball above the ground without it touching any growing thing or other natural or artificial object, and let it go so that it falls through the air before coming to rest"

[Hawkeye77]

Still wish they would implement free relief from fairway divots.

 

I called their number and added that as a suggestion, I recommend as many of you as possible do the same.

 

I recommend as many as possible recommend the opposite!!!!!!

[Shilgy]

Add an asterisk. A ball can be played out of a penalty area. *Except those deemed to be boundary markings by the committee.

 

The problem is how do deal with a lost ball, and have it be consistent with out-of-bounds. Player A hits it off the planet (out of bounds), and drops at the boundary with one stroke penalty. Player B hits a ball, and NOBODY sees where it went. Where to drop? Player C hits ball and everyone thinks it is on the edge of the fairway...but it can't be found. Where to drop?

 

Group decision. Majority rules.

How does that work in a tournament? One group says yes and another no.