USGA Proposes to Modernize Rules of Golf

[Stuart_G]

In a competition, the right move is always going to be to play a provisional and treat the rule the way it stands now. I can't think of a situation where taking a two stroke penalty and hitting from the last spot the ball was seen when it is either lost or OB would be better than hitting a second shot from where your original was. I don't think you can lean on this rule to improve your scores in a competition.

 

To me that's pretty much saying it then shouldn't be a rule <period>.

 

Golf is a game and as such a competition. The rules are written specifically to govern such competition. Why would you need and what would be the point of any rule(s) that is intended and only specific to a non-competitive situation?

 

If you want to go out on a golf course and have some fun outside a competitive environment, you don't need the USGA or R+A (or anyone else) to tell you how to do it.

[arbeck]

In a competition, the right move is always going to be to play a provisional and treat the rule the way it stands now. I can't think of a situation where taking a two stroke penalty and hitting from the last spot the ball was seen when it is either lost or OB would be better than hitting a second shot from where your original was. I don't think you can lean on this rule to improve your scores in a competition.

To me that's pretty much saying it then shouldn't be a rule . Golf is a game and as such a competition. The rules are written specifically to govern such competition. Why would you need and what would be the point of any rule(s) that is intended and only specific to a non-competitive situation? If you want to go out on a golf course and have some fun outside a competitive environment, you don't need the USGA or R+A (or anyone else) to tell you how to do it.

 

It's about speed. I hit a tee shot, it bounced into the rough, I don't think I'll have any problem finding it. No one in my group thinks it's lost. We get up there and ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I'm supposed to go back to the tee box and play another shot, but there's already a group there. I should have hit a provisional, but I know I'm annoyed when someone in my group hits a bunch of provisionals in a round. It not only slows the game, it's almost like they're practicing. It's just a friendly game, so I suppose I could drop and give myself a two shot penalty (as I'm suggesting the rule should be), but I'm technically cheating and shouldn't be submitting that score if I do so. Having a standardized way of handling it will make the game better, even if you never take advantage of the rule.

[HatsForBats]

You guys really need to stop with the "more enjoyable for everybody" and "more enjoyable for a larger majority of golfers" stuff.

 

It's S&D when you hit a ball off the course because they don't want balls off the course. They don't want them bouncing down roads. They don't want them in people's backyards. They want you to play away from that.

 

OB 10 yards over the green? Better play short of the green.

 

OB 10 feet from the fairway on the left. . .better aim WAY right. I mean aiming so far right, you're bringing the next hole into play.

 

OB both sides of a narrow hole? Better hit your 7 iron off the tee.

 

It's Fundamentals of Course Management 101. I don't play with people who want these things. I don't understand this desire to make playing the game free from unpleasantness.

 

Did someone advocate completely removing all penalties for an OB shot? I must have missed it. I can understand the desire to make the game less penal and speed up play in the process. Less penal is not the same as free from unpleasantness.

 

The course I force myself to play in a league has to be managed which means many tee shots need to be aimed into lesser trouble but still trouble. Repeated again and again is an unpleasant experience in my, and many other players, book. I like the other players in the league and it is the only course left near my home (the other 2 are now sold for housing). There are more than a few courses where the play on some short par 4's is Pitching Wedge/Pitching Wedge for me. Ugh.

 

They designed the course knowing that many balls would be hit into roads, yards, houses and maybe worst of all other players. Their concern when building the course is how to maximize profit not how to discourage players from hitting into any of those things. In fact some holes are designed to encourage hitting towards OB. The USGA may want courses to use OB as a detractor for hitting into a certain area but the courses desires do not necessarily align with the USGA's. I think it would be great for the golf industry if courses were given more options to deal with OB. Those players that hated the change could always just play courses that stuck by the previous OB rules only.

[b.helts]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

How do you do that thing? :sorry:

[jmkenn0]

Someone mentioned bifurcation between competitions and everything else - maybe that's the route to take? Let to course have leeway for some rules, such as S&D on a Saturday or Sunday, but then not allow those local rules to be in effect for competitions that will be entered as "T"'s?

 

I can certainly understand why we want one set of rules, but at the same time, what percentage of golfers in the US actually have a handicap? What percentage of those people actually play in medal tournaments?

[QEight]

I, personally don't like being able to win a hole without hitting a shot. But to each their own.

 

I have won a match without hitting a shot as the opponent was no-show while I was on te first tee. I did not like it either, but at least I brought a point for our team...

[Stuart_G]

It's about speed. I hit a tee shot, it bounced into the rough, I don't think I'll have any problem finding it. No one in my group thinks it's lost. We get up there and ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I'm supposed to go back to the tee box and play another shot, but there's already a group there. I should have hit a provisional, but I know I'm annoyed when someone in my group hits a bunch of provisionals in a round. It not only slows the game, it's almost like they're practicing. It's just a friendly game, so I suppose I could drop and give myself a two shot penalty (as I'm suggesting the rule should be), but I'm technically cheating and shouldn't be submitting that score if I do so. Having a standardized way of handling it will make the game better, even if you never take advantage of the rule.

 

I understand the time issue but if it's not valid for a competitive round how can it be even remotely considered valid for handicap purposes? Competition is the main purpose of handicap and if you manage your handicap under one rule and compete under different rules, the handicap is no longer an accurate reflection of you competitive ability. Your friends can decide what to let you do for your own little purposes but as far as handicaps go, you already have two completely valid alternatives. Either pick up and take ESC (or most likely score had you gone back) or drop a ball wherever you want and treat that particular hole as if it was not played under the rules of golf and post par + handicap allocation for that

hole.

[b.helts]

I, personally don't like being able to win a hole without hitting a shot. But to each their own.

 

I have won a match without hitting a shot as the opponent was no-show while I was on te first tee. I did not like it either, but at least I brought a point for our team...

 

I get it. I know there are other ways to win a hole without hitting a shot. But if I reversed the roles, and jslane hit it OB, when it's my turn to hit, I know it's time to buckle down and take advantage. But then I could hit it OB too and squander that advantage. That's all part of the beauty of match play. It ebbs and flows and is pure.

[DavePelz4]

I, personally don't like being able to win a hole without hitting a shot. But to each their own.

 

I have won a match without hitting a shot as the opponent was no-show while I was on te first tee. I did not like it either, but at least I brought a point for our team...

 

I'd still find a way to lose.

[Shilgy]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

How do you do that thing? :sorry:

Too funny-I was just examining my keyboard as well.

[LeoLeo99]

Someone mentioned bifurcation between competitions and everything else - maybe that's the route to take? Let to course have leeway for some rules, such as S&D on a Saturday or Sunday, but then not allow those local rules to be in effect for competitions that will be entered as "T"'s?

 

I can certainly understand why we want one set of rules, but at the same time, what percentage of golfers in the US actually have a handicap? What percentage of those people actually play in medal tournaments?

 

Outside of a tournament, no one makes you play by the rules. Lose a ball in your Saturday foursome? Drop a ball and write down your ESC or double bogey or whatever you want. You can still post for handicap purposes.

[Rohlio]

Still wish they would implement free relief from fairway divots.

 

Seriously fairway sand filled divots should be considered ground under repair. I was truly hoping to see that.

 

I like all of these rule changes with the exception of the drop change...I think you should have to drop from shoulder height still. Getting to drop it from 1cm above the ground just strikes me as silly. It should be fundamentally different than placing the ball.

[Hawkeye77]

I've heard rumors that their may be bifurcation of the rules for professional and ams. not relating to equipment but specifically to the rules. thoughts?

 

“We should have our own rule book and distance ourselves from amateur governing bodies.”

DeLaet later added, “Fact is, there’s an old boys club USGA based in New Jersey that have never hit a shot on Tour who make decisions that affect our families.”

 

I get many want certain rule changes, but interpretation of rules can't be left up to players. Rules need to be specific and understood by all. which is exactly why the rule book is the way it is.

 

“It’s still a little bit unclear where you can ground your club in a bunker but you can’t ground it for testing. So if I lean on it, is that considered testing?” asked William McGirt.

 

Ouch, those quotes simply identify a couple of idiots.

[HatsForBats]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

How do you do that thing? :sorry:

 

http://upli.st/l/list-of-all-ascii-emoticons

[Sun Devil]

I don't really like the drop rule, but the pace of play rules are really good. Capping the total strokes on a hole is brilliant for every day play and ready golf and shorter lost ball searches will also speed up play.

 

I'm ok with keeping stroke and distance as is, just should add a rule mandating that the player hit a provisional if the ball may have gone out of bounds. That should maintain the added penalty for missing in certain places while addressing the pace of play concerns.

 

I do think that it's a mistake not to change the fairway divot to ground under repair. It would be easy to implement, drop at nearest point of relief with no penalty. The current rule is really punitive, especially considering that it only comes into play when a player hit a good drive. If you hit the ball in the fairway you should get a good lie on the next shot.

 

You seem to be imagining fairways that have only two kinds of lies. A divot someone just made yesterday and perfect grass. The courses I play have yesterday's divots, last week's, last month's and other places where you can't quite tell when there was last a divot there but the grass is far from perfect. But you could make an argument that every spot in the landing area of a golf course has been a divot at some time in the past. Whose to say if that cuppy lie your ball is in was because of a divot or not?

 

There's no way to implement your suggestion without basically granting carte blanche to players to roll the ball whenever they don't like their lie. Lots of people play that way every day, there's no need to enshrine it as a rule. Just let 'em keep cheating if that's how they want to roll.

 

As Justice Potter Stewart said, "I know it when I see it". In my opinion, there are situations in which you are clearly in a divot and then there are the borderline situations. We can probably all agree that the "clearly in a divot" situation should be afforded relief. As for the borderline situations, golf sort of counts on the player to have some integrity in these situations and make the call that they feel is right. Granted, there are some who play golf without integrity, and they'd use the rule to their advantage, but they'd do that with literally any rule that's counting on them to do the right thing.

 

One of the most fundamental rules in golf is to play it as it lies. Golf was never meant to be fair. A ball can bounce a million different directions in the fairway into a million different lies. This is what makes golf so interesting. It's different with every putt or swing. A drop away from a sprinkler head or concrete cart path is different. You could be injured trying to hit the ball and graze off the sprinkler. Pretty sure most of us can hit out of a divot safely.

[jslane57]

If it were up to me (thank the Lord that very little is actually up to me!) I'd have OB as double par and you're done for the hole in stroke play, start fresh on the next hole with a new ball. Loss of hole in match play. Even stroke and distance doesn't put enough importance on boundaries IMO. And this would speed up the play as the moment one hits it OB, they're done for that hole. The walk of shame would not be back to the tee, rather past the green to the next tee...

 

While this is great in theory (not really) it wouldn't make sense in match play. If I have the honor and I hit it OB you win the hole without having to hit a shot on it. Second, if that is what happens and we start walking to the next tee, we are going to run up on the group in front of us and have to wait for them to not only finish the hole, but to tee off and hit their second shots on the next hole. Otherwise we race around them and go in front of them. Either way is awkward at best and would suck.

 

I commend you for thinking outside the box, though. We need more outside the box thinking for things like Pace of Play.

 

I would definitely like to see more stableford being played in the US.

In match play honors is very important. I'm fine with winning a hole and not hitting if the person with honors hits it OB. And so you play through the group in front. It's all good...

 

I, personally don't like being able to win a hole without hitting a shot. But to each their own.

 

However, on the playing through part, if it were that easy I might agree with you. But the fact is, in most instances, there will also be another group in front of the group in front of you. Playing through is just not a reliable option. So what would happen is I'd hit it OB and only be 2 up ( ;)) You'd have a little momentum from the win and then we'd hit a wall. We'd have to wait for a minimum of 15 minutes and more likely close to 30 minutes or more before we could tee off the next hole. Momentum would be lost, I'd be bored and stiff and my flask may or may not be empty. This scenario is not just some weird outlier, it is what would happen, most of the time.

 

But cheers, I think you have the honor (:

No worries. I'm teeing off with my putter to make sure I don't lose the hole on the tee shot. This leads to a slower pace of play. We have no issues! LOL.

[4Eyes]

The R&A's and USGA's proposed rule changes seem very straightforward. While I generally agree with their proposed rule changes, I have comments on two of them:

 

1. The 20" (1/2 meter) and 80" (2 meter) rules regarding drops appear to be an attempt to eliminate the potential advantage of a player that uses a broomstick putter (without "anchoring") for drops. I think the R&A and USGA should just add a maximum club length rule, or disallow putters to be used for "one club length" and "two club length" drops.

 

2. i don't like the proposed "no penalty for hitting an unattended flagstick on the putting green" rule. I see many players on the putting green wanting the flagstick in for downhill putts and out on uphill putts. Not only will this slow the pace of play I think it brings in an element of unfair advantage..

[bluerrpilot]

With a couple of exceptions, changes to the rules will have very little effect on speeding up the pace of play. When we are sitting in a cart waiting for the group in front, we're not being slowed up because someone in front of us cant decide how many club lengths he gets for a drop. There really is only 2 things...

 

1. The lack of common sense, knowledge or etiquette on how to get around the course.

2. Courses placing tee times too close or not filling groups ( having 2 and 3somes between 4somes )

 

Wanna speed up play?

Teach people and beginners what ready golf is and how to keep the pace moving forward.

Wait until the group on the first hole is off the green before the next group starts.

 

Wanna help grow the game? Stop making beginners feel like they are holding up the entire course. Kinda makes them not wanna come back.

[Newby]

 

Seriously fairway sand filled divots should be considered ground under repair.

 

Some years ago there was a blind eye turned to an experimental local rule in Scotland permitting such relief.

It ran for a few years but there were too many complaints about it being a cheats charter and arguments about whether it was sand 'filled', 'part filled' or fully grown grass, so it was dropped.

[Newby]

Getting to drop it from 1cm above the ground just strikes me as silly. .

 

Where did you get 1cm from? It's a minimum of 2 1/2 times that. But do you really support the continuation of dropping in a wet bunker from shoulder height?

[ratspros]

Getting to drop it from 1cm above the ground just strikes me as silly. .

 

Where did you get 1cm from? It's a minimum of 2 1/2 times that. But do you really support the continuation of dropping in a wet bunker from shoulder height?

 

A.) it could actually be less then a cm. 1"is merely the recommendation. It'd be impossible to implement a 1" rule. I mean every guys idea of what is 6" is very different from ever girls idea of what is 6".

 

B.) yes I think drops in bunkers should still be done at shoulder height for the rare occasion one actually drops in a bunker.

[bladehunter]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

How do you do that thing? :sorry:

Too funny-I was just examining my keyboard as well.

 

 

its official... Hes a witch !

[LeoLeo99]

Getting to drop it from 1cm above the ground just strikes me as silly. .

 

Where did you get 1cm from? It's a minimum of 2 1/2 times that. But do you really support the continuation of dropping in a wet bunker from shoulder height?

 

There is no minimum. Just has to be dropped. 1cm should be fine.

[smeech8000]

B.) yes I think drops in bunkers should still be done at shoulder height for the rare occasion one actually drops in a bunker.

 

IMO, taking relief from casual water in a bunker happens often enough in spring and fall in certain regions that I wouldn't classify the occasion as rare. Certain events held after extended showers may see the field go through this exercise multiple times.

 

And just because someone hit it into the bunker shouldn't resign the player to a plugged lie as part of taking relief. IOW the shouldn't "deserve" the bad lie because they were in a bunker in the first place.

[rogolf]

Getting to drop it from 1cm above the ground just strikes me as silly. .

 

Where did you get 1cm from? It's a minimum of 2 1/2 times that. But do you really support the continuation of dropping in a wet bunker from shoulder height?

 

There is no minimum. Just has to be dropped. 1cm should be fine.

 

What the proposed Rule says is shown below. It's pretty clear that ball must be dropped from such a height that it's not touching any growing thing - which includes grass - and must pass through the air before it comes to rest. If in the rough, and the rough is six inches high, then the ball will likely need to be dropped from above six inches.

And recall what was said in the press conference - these Rules are written for honest golfers.

a. How Ball Must Be Dropped

When dropping a ball in a relief area under a Rule, the player must:

- Hold the ball above the ground without it touching any growing thing or other natural or artificial object, and

- Let go of the ball so that it falls through the air before coming to rest.

 

To avoid any doubt, it is recommended that the ball be dropped from a height of at least one inch above the ground, including any growing thing or natural or artificial object.

[4Par]

I'll be tossing it.... lol

 

https://www.usga.org/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-proposed-changes/proposed-change--new-procedure-for-dropping-a-ball.html

[gretch]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

How do you do that thing? :sorry:

Too funny-I was just examining my keyboard as well.

 

 

its official... Hes a witch !

 

It is easy.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

See?

 

 

 

/I just copied and pasted his, I have no idea either.

[BirdieRoll]

Still wish they would implement free relief from fairway divots.

 

+1. A ball in a divot in a fairway should be considered ground under repair. Free drop within one club length no nearer hole.

[sui generis]

Still wish they would implement free relief from fairway divots.

 

+1. A ball in a divot in a fairway should be considered ground under repair. Free drop within one club length no nearer hole.

 

And, a ball which hits a tree in the woods and ricochets back into the fairway should be carted back into the woods and dropped in a pile leaves. :swoon:

[bpburner]

The lost ball is one of the rules that I struggle the most with currently. There have been multiple occasions in which the entire group says it's right here and nobody can find it, on a shot that should be on the fairway or the edge. When the majority of a group agrees a ball should be here does that player really deserve the current penalty. IMO if cameras and, or spectators were present the ball is found. The practical issue is how do you write this into a rule, what is a majority, etc. However, with all of the brain power being dedicated to this topic I have to believe somebody much smarter than I can come up with something.