KBS $-Taper

[WSUWarriorPGAPro]

15 hours ago, nova6868 said:

The S-Taper is slightly counterbalanced. Will drop swingweight about a point compared to DG. KBS Tour is more counterbalanced, drops swingweight about 2 points. 

 

What about C-Taper?  I think those are also about as counterbalanced as the KBS Tours.  I had a set with those in them for a year, and I hit the fitting iron great (which is why I got them) and when the set showed up it absolutely SUCKED.  I have never liked the counterbalancing.  I have used DG S400's for so long, I have always liked to feel the shaft weight.  When I go lighter I lose all kinds of head and total club feel.   Or, maybe I'm just weird. 

[nova6868]

I haven't worked with C-Tapers in a while, but as I recall they are not counterbalanced. 

 

[Ireland2]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:16 PM, WSUWarriorPGAPro said:

Is it the HT version of the $-taper shaft?  (Just asking.)  That one has a heavier tip to it than the standard $-Taper.  I think the main difference between the $-Taper and the Tour shaft is the Tour shaft is somewhat counterbalanced.  The $-Taper is not.  (Maybe someone can confirm.)  The $-Taper is positioned to fill a space between the C-Taper (feels like rebar to me) and the Tour (which spins too much for me and I can't feel the clubheads with it.)  The $-Taper feels (to me) like a more consistent (in dispersion) Dynamic Gold S400.  (Which is probably why I like the $-taper shaft, since it have used that shaft since college, other than a couple brief departures from it.

No it’s not the HT version…

 

I’ve a few more rounds under my belt and despite really trying (as I love the look of the MP-20 MMC’s), I don’t think I am going to get along with the $ Taper 120

 

The balance feels off to me. I know it has a different profile but feels very stiff and even when I strike the ball well (I get good distance and dispersion), I just don’t get that pleasing a feeling. It is hard work.

 

I had been playing S300’s for years so can’t be the weight.

 

That said, I hit a lot of shots with my friends JPX-900 Tours with Project X LZ’s 5.5 (lighter) and they were beautifully smooth. Maybe I might lose them if I swing hard but they were giving me good stopping power (which I desperately need on firm links greens) and perfect turf interaction. Possibly the 6.0 would work as well.

 

I think I need to take a quick visit back to a fitting with very specific requests.

[Ireland2]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:16 PM, WSUWarriorPGAPro said:

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Ireland2
Double post

[Ireland2]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:16 PM, WSUWarriorPGAPro said:

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Ireland2
Double post

[Ireland2]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:16 PM, WSUWarriorPGAPro said:

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Ireland2
Double post

[ScottHutch2]

Long term review: The $taper HTs have been working out beautifully in my P770s. The bend profile just seems to fit me and the launch/spin window is consistent. Now if I could just find a driver/wood shaft that fits me as well as the $taper HT I’d be a damn good golfer lol 

[mtg]

On 12/10/2021 at 1:58 PM, WSUWarriorPGAPro said:

What about C-Taper?  I think those are also about as counterbalanced as the KBS Tours.  I had a set with those in them for a year, and I hit the fitting iron great (which is why I got them) and when the set showed up it absolutely SUCKED.  I have never liked the counterbalancing.  I have used DG S400's for so long, I have always liked to feel the shaft weight.  When I go lighter I lose all kinds of head and total club feel.   Or, maybe I'm just weird. 

negative... c-tapers aren't CB'd like the 'Tours'

 

very neutral weighting, like a Dynamic Gold 

Edited January 9, 2022 by mtg

[WSUWarriorPGAPro]

On 1/9/2022 at 9:18 AM, mtg said:

negative... c-tapers aren't CB'd like the 'Tours'

 

very neutral weighting, like a Dynamic Gold 

Then when Titleist built that set of AP2's, they should have used heavier heads, or some tip weights.  The swing weights with those C-Tapers were not right.  They felt VERY light and VERY stiff.  I barely could feel the clubhead.  (Whereas when I have used S400's (yes I know they are completely different animals) I could feel the head and the shaft.  That helped my timing and tempo and release.

[mtg]

17 hours ago, WSUWarriorPGAPro said:

Then when Titleist built that set of AP2's, they should have used heavier heads, or some tip weights.  The swing weights with those C-Tapers were not right.  They felt VERY light and VERY stiff.  I barely could feel the clubhead.  (Whereas when I have used S400's (yes I know they are completely different animals) I could feel the head and the shaft.  That helped my timing and tempo and release.

totally agree... when i first hit a KBS Tour that wasn't weighted out with extra head weight I hit some of the weirdest iron shots of my life. And light and stiff is another awful feeling in an iron, and KBS has some very strong profiles for their weight class.  Solution like you said though just extra head weight/ which cures the SW issue and also effectively soft steps the shaft. 

[Desh]

On 12/11/2021 at 11:32 AM, Ireland2 said:

No it’s not the HT version…

 

I’ve a few more rounds under my belt and despite really trying (as I love the look of the MP-20 MMC’s), I don’t think I am going to get along with the $ Taper 120

 

The balance feels off to me. I know it has a different profile but feels very stiff and even when I strike the ball well (I get good distance and dispersion), I just don’t get that pleasing a feeling. It is hard work.

 

I had been playing S300’s for years so can’t be the weight.

 

That said, I hit a lot of shots with my friends JPX-900 Tours with Project X LZ’s 5.5 (lighter) and they were beautifully smooth. Maybe I might lose them if I swing hard but they were giving me good stopping power (which I desperately need on firm links greens) and perfect turf interaction. Possibly the 6.0 would work as well.

 

I think I need to take a quick visit back to a fitting with very specific requests.

I've had a similar experience, coming from old DG S300s with some MPs. I went to the $-Taper 120 S when I got fitted for the JPX 921 Tours. The DGs felt better but the dispersion was a lot tighter with the $-Tapers. After a few weeks playing with them I adapted and couldn't be happier. I walked away with some better numbers but I agree with you, that feeling isn't there.

[Desh]

On 11/26/2021 at 6:54 AM, Ireland2 said:

Just bought some MP-20 MMC’s in clearance sale that came with the $ Taper 120 S as stock shaft.

 

Really struggling with it. Feels heavy (it’s lighter than last shaft I had), harsh, very stiff and not smooth.

 

For those experts among you, any initial reaction to why?

 

- 5 Handicap

- Late 40’s, not very strong

- 82mph 7-iron

- Half-swing, very wristy

- Quick transition

- Quite shallow but a hitter rather than smooth swinger.

- Have been fitted in to Modus 120 Stiff

- Had previously been playing stock Dynamic Gold S300 stiff in Titleist CB’s.

 

I came from the old DG S300s with MP-52s and went to the $ Taper 120 S on JPX 921 Tours. I don't have a swing weight comparison but the $ Tapers feel lighter, stronger torque and tighter. They are less "Active" per se in the swing than the S300s. I have a feeling with your swing, short back swing, you rely on creating a ton of lag in your swing to generate speed. I think the more active S300 helped with that and the $ Taper is just more boardy feeling.

[Desh]

On 11/27/2021 at 12:43 PM, justcallmemoses said:

Does anyone know if the hzrdus smoke black hybrid shaft has a similar feel to the $ taper? I love the $ taper in my irons 

Try the KBS graphite prototype hybrid shafts. I found timing this shaft in y hybrid is very similar to my $ Taper irons. They came stock on the Mavrik Pro Hybrids that I play.

[maximusppl]

I have KBS $-Taper Stiff/120gram in my 2021 T100S irons. As I make swing changes and learn to make better contact and better face control these shafts have continued to perform. I was pulling the ball a bit too much before and have worked hard to get the ball slightly right of the target line now/draw back to the middle. Swinging 83-87mph 7irons these perform pretty consistently. I am currently de-lofting 0-3 degrees and I can spin the ball up to 5600-6200rpms with this combo and a prov1x and fly it pretty high and straight. My 7iron swingweight is D3. 

 

So far, with my lessons and swing changes the shafts have been able to keep up and not get in the way. I will continue to use them throughout this season. Maybe if i start swinging my 7iron between 88-92 i could see about going up in weight and/or flex. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by maximusppl

[jpark0221]

On 2/28/2022 at 6:58 PM, maximusppl said:

I have KBS $-Taper Stiff/120gram in my 2021 T100S irons. As I make swing changes and learn to make better contact and better face control these shafts have continued to perform. I was pulling the ball a bit too much before and have worked hard to get the ball slightly right of the target line now/draw back to the middle. Swinging 83-87mph 7irons these perform pretty consistently. I am currently de-lofting 0-3 degrees and I can spin the ball up to 5600-6200rpms with this combo and a prov1x and fly it pretty high and straight. My 7iron swingweight is D3. 

 

So far, with my lessons and swing changes the shafts have been able to keep up and not get in the way. I will continue to use them throughout this season. Maybe if i start swinging my 7iron between 88-92 i could see about going up in weight and/or flex. 

Did you get to try Tour 120 by any chance? 

 

I have a very similar profile with you - 7i 83-87mph ss with lot of pulls and was fitted for Tour 120.

It was just so long to get custom order for JPX 921 Tour so I ended up ordering $-Taper 120 with lie/loft adjustment. Curious if $-Taper is still serving you well. 

[maximusppl]

16 hours ago, jpark0221 said:

Did you get to try Tour 120 by any chance? 

 

I have a very similar profile with you - 7i 83-87mph ss with lot of pulls and was fitted for Tour 120.

It was just so long to get custom order for JPX 921 Tour so I ended up ordering $-Taper 120 with lie/loft adjustment. Curious if $-Taper is still serving you well. 

I think the Tour 120 balloons a bit for me from previous tries. I didn't try them in my fitting session. I would say that in general, as I am making swing changes, starting to compress the ball a bit more (deloft), the $-taper is still a good fit for me. If I find that if the launch is too low and doesn't spin enough even with a high-spin ball like a prov1x, then I may look at changing things up, but for now that is not the case at all. I am only starting to compress it a little bit (4-6 degrees with a 7iron as an example). After my yesterday's lesson it's flighting through a nice window. If for some reason I am starting to hit it like 90-93 mph, i can also revisit. 

[CMZ24]

On 12/18/2019 at 10:16 PM, dmeeksDC said:

I actually felt like the 120g $Taper felt less stiff than the Tour 120, but it could just be the $Taper is smoother because it is smooth. Very fun shaft to play. I prefer the $Taper out of the two and I bet the stiff works well for you. I’ve been working on moving slowly to lighter weight shafts, probably even graphite, but of 120g steel shafts the $Taper is one of my favorites.

Would you say the money taper in stiff is super heavy ? 

[dmeeksDC]

2 hours ago, CMZ24 said:

Would you say the money taper in stiff is super heavy ? 

Such a subjective call. And it is a fine line for me. I’d say they felt a little heavier than I prefer, as 115g or perhaps 110g seems to be my sweet spot. The $Taper feels like a firmer KBS Tour, even though I think they are about the same. In $ Taper I think I like the regular flex more. Could be the weight. 

[CMZ24]

2 hours ago, dmeeksDC said:

Such a subjective call. And it is a fine line for me. I’d say they felt a little heavier than I prefer, as 115g or perhaps 110g seems to be my sweet spot. The $Taper feels like a firmer KBS Tour, even though I think they are about the same. In $ Taper I think I like the regular flex more. Could be the weight. 

Gotcha. Do you normally play a stiff flex? I’m apprehensive about going to a regular flex, but since it’s a heavier shaft I’m confused how that is. How can a shaft like the tour lite be 95g and be stiff - and a 110g in a money taper be a regular? 

[Tdsjfb]

I went from the Tour 120s (2012) (which felt great, but ballooned), to the $ Taper 120s (which I loved), to recently the $ Taper 115s (which are impossible to get). Now that I'm in my 60s, the 115s are great!

Edited July 6, 2022 by Tdsjfb

[dmeeksDC]

On 7/5/2022 at 7:57 PM, CMZ24 said:

Gotcha. Do you normally play a stiff flex? I’m apprehensive about going to a regular flex, but since it’s a heavier shaft I’m confused how that is. How can a shaft like the tour lite be 95g and be stiff - and a 110g in a money taper be a regular? 

They can manufacture shafts that are lighter weight but still frequency out as a stiff shaft. But you really cannot compare flexes unless it is the same model — a KBS Tour stiff will be stiffer than a KBS Tour regular.
 

But a KBS C Taper regular will be stiffer than a KBS Tour 90 stiff. Even with the same company, can’t compare flex labels. 
 

Weight matters most. Get the shaft weight you like and then choose flex based on feel and what trajectory you are seeking. Weight can be a big difference maker in terms of feel too. 
 

Look at the post above from @Tdsjfb I agree with his findings. An $ Taper stiff at 120g feels real stiff to me. A reg-plus at 115g feels great. And that $ Taper reg-plus will be stiffer than a Nippon Modus 120 stiff or a Dynamic Gold XP 95 stiff. So focus on weight and if the shaft you like at a certain weight happens to be a regular, do not be afraid to go with it. A shaft that feels too stiff to you will mess with your swing. I typically am mid-weight and either a reg or a stiff, depends on the shaft. 

[Brobespierre]

4 hours ago, Tdsjfb said:

I went from the Tour 120s (2012) (which felt great, but ballooned), to the $ Taper 120s (which I loved), to recently the $ Taper 115s (which are impossible to get). Now that I'm in my 60s, the 115s are great!

I concur with this. I really like the $-Taper but would really have preferred to get the 115g R+. Unfortunately I haven’t been willing to pay full sticker and have never seen a set of pulls.

 

Alas.

[mtg]

On 7/5/2022 at 7:57 PM, CMZ24 said:

Gotcha. Do you normally play a stiff flex? I’m apprehensive about going to a regular flex, but since it’s a heavier shaft I’m confused how that is. How can a shaft like the tour lite be 95g and be stiff - and a 110g in a money taper be a regular? 

 

Shortest answer is shaft diameter. Which is how step rates affect stiffness. Example: S400 vs X100. The S400 is actually a touch heavier, yet more flexible. The shaft diameter gets "thinner" quicker as you move down the shaft towards the tip, alas it flexes more. 

 

Other things affect stiffness with steel shafts... wall thickness is a big one but wall thickness and weight would be highly correlated. Also heat treatment can supposedly alter stiffness characteristics, Nippon mainly comes to mind with this process. 

 

Edit: not to say the KBS Tour lite stiff is actually stiffer than a KBS Tour regular. You almost have to look at each model in isolation. They try to make things line up but lighter shafts will inevitably be a bit softer (generally speaking). Which just so happens to work out pretty well for the marketplace. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by mtg