KBS $-Taper

[Evolved]

7 minutes ago, Seattlegolfnut said:

I know it's uncouth to quote your own post but had a couple folks PM since I wrote this two months ago. Asking how the HTs are working out.

 

I've posted 8 rounds with the HTs and the 2019 ProV1 ball this season. I'm playing my old carry distances from the PXs and C-Tapers. So the lower spin and launch (lower than the regular $-Tapers) seems to be working in my favor and I'll say goodbye to the AVX ball unless, perhaps, some super windy conditions.

 

I recently increased the HT shaft weights at the bottom end of my bag.

 

On initial install, I used the same ~120g 37.5" (uncut) 9i/W shaft in my 41^* 9i, 45^* PW, 48^* and 52^* wedges. The PW is 3/8" shorter than the 9 and the wedges are both the same length (same head weights) at 3/8" shorter than the PW. I play all these clubs 3/4 and full shots, and occasional chipping with the 52^*. Was struggling with low point control on the 3/4 shots. I've learned in the past that when swingweight gets too high for my tempo, I have more of a tendency to flip the more hefty head at the ball.

 

So I stepped up from the 120g to the 125g in the PW, and put the 130g in both the wedges. I reduced a bit of the tip weights to keep the same overall club weight from before (for tempo), but more percentage of the weight in the shaft than the head. So far seems more stable and consistent on 3/4 swings and still have good feel and feedback on the full shots.

Reading through your posts I was curious if you've tried the pro v1 left dash? Might be the middle ground between the avx and regular pro v1 that you're looking for.

[Seattlegolfnut]

Just now, Evolved said:

Reading through your posts I was curious if you've tried the pro v1 left dash? Might be the middle ground between the avx and regular pro v1 that you're looking for.

Not yet -- but I appreciate the recommendation as it's been on my mind. I'll try to pick up a sleeve and see what I get there.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

On 5/4/2021 at 9:36 AM, Seattlegolfnut said:

I know it's uncouth to quote your own post but had a couple folks PM since I wrote this two months ago. Asking how the HTs are working out.

 

I've posted 8 rounds with the HTs and the 2019 ProV1 ball this season. I'm playing my old carry distances from the PXs and C-Tapers. So the lower spin and launch (lower than the regular $-Tapers) seems to be working in my favor and I'll say goodbye to the AVX ball unless, perhaps, some super windy conditions.

 

I recently increased the HT shaft weights at the bottom end of my bag.

 

On initial install, I used the same ~120g 37.5" (uncut) 9i/W shaft in my 41^* 9i, 45^* PW, 48^* and 52^* wedges. The PW is 3/8" shorter than the 9 and the wedges are both the same length (same head weights) at 3/8" shorter than the PW. I play all these clubs 3/4 and full shots, and occasional chipping with the 52^*. Was struggling with low point control on the 3/4 shots. I've learned in the past that when swingweight gets too high for my tempo, I have more of a tendency to flip the more hefty head at the ball.

 

So I stepped up from the 120g to the 125g in the PW, and put the 130g in both the wedges. I reduced a bit of the tip weights to keep the same overall club weight from before (for tempo), but more percentage of the weight in the shaft than the head. So far seems more stable and consistent on 3/4 swings and still have good feel and feedback on the full shots.

@Seattlegolfnut would a logical fit be 130X HT if CT125S+ is currently a good fit?

[Seattlegolfnut]

4 hours ago, Brooks Cupcake said:

@Seattlegolfnut would a logical fit be 130X HT if CT125S+ is currently a good fit?

Hey Brooks...

 

Flex for flex, the C and the HT are going to have very similar tip stiffness. So if your tempo and loading is good with the CT125S+, and you like the dispersion you’re getting, I’d suggest sticking with the 125S+ in the HT. 

The HT will have softer mid and softer butt; which will translate, respectively, into the higher launch/spin and that smoother feel in the hands. 

 

I fit into the C taper 120 S, and have good results with the $-taper HT 120 S, except for the wedges which I stepped up in weight as I talked about in another post.

 

In summary, the HT in same flex/weight as C gives me the stable tip feel and dispersion results I loved from both the PX and C taper shafts, but with slightly higher launch/spin, and doesn’t feel like a steel rod in my hands. All combined, that’s what makes this seem like it’s the Goldilocks shaft I’ve been searching for...

 

 

 

 

 

[B_of_H]

So i've gone to $ taper HT in my wedges.  I switched from x100/s400 3 years ago and went kbs tour 130 in my irons and stock vokey s200 in my wedges.  My 'feel' and performance experience between all these shafts are significantly different than most.  KBS tours launch a touch higher but actually have a slightly lower peak height and less spin than x100's for me.  So I guess i'm a little weird. I don't like the higher balance point of kbs' on my wedges around the greens and I don't want something too boardy feeling on partial shots. 

 

I put a 125 $ taper HT in my vokey 50* this winter to test.  I had to add a little lead tape to get it back to sw out at D3.  To me it felt very soft when I waggled it and I was kinda worried.  Felt like a regular flex to me.  The weird thing is that on full shots it spins a little less than an s400 but spins if anything a touch more on partial shots.  Which is perfect IMO.  the launch was a 1/2 degree higher, peak height the same.  best thing is it feels and balances great.  I ordered a 130 HT to try a few days ago to test, no idea if it will arrive anytime soon.  

 

basically long story short the $ taper HT feels softer than an s400 but plays stiffer, spins less full/ roughly same on partials, and balances like a dg shaft for me.  I don't know why KBS doesn't push this shaft more for wedges.  

[Seattlegolfnut]

7 minutes ago, B_of_H said:

I don't know why KBS doesn't push this shaft more for wedges.  

....or at all! It's such a sleeper.

 

Good feedback on your feel with it.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

Have a set of 125’s HT next week arriving at my buddy’s place to put into a set of 7MC Heads. Had a member do me a super solid on the heads, so it was a no brainer to drop the coin to build the set to at least give them a shot. 
Look forward to the head to head against CT 125’s that are in my TCB’s.

[Seattlegolfnut]

36 minutes ago, Brooks Cupcake said:

Have a set of 125’s HT next week arriving at my buddy’s place to put into a set of 7MC Heads. Had a member do me a super solid on the heads, so it was a no brainer to drop the coin to build the set to at least give them a shot. 
Look forward to the head to head against CT 125’s that are in my TCB’s.

Can't wait to hear your feedback!

[cbcrews]

Just bought a set of KBS Tour HT's (not $ Taper HT). Seems even KBS uses the terminology "reinforced" for this shaft. Couldn't find any mention of reinforced or even specs of this shaft profile anywhere. Emailed KBS and they said they have these in stock but didnt give any additional information. Perhaps there is just a bit of marketing spin or at the least dual purpose on the more traditional balance point of the HT offerings. 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by cbcrews

[JD3]

I just got a new set with $-Taper in stiff. My 7 iron SS is 85. I played KBS Tour S for years and liked them except for the feeling of some excess "bendiness" in the middle of the shaft. When I demod a 7 iron with $-taper earlier this year they seemed like a dream combo of KBS tour flight but without the Gumby center shaft bend. When the new clubs came in the SW was light at D1. And I have been having fits with these shafts. Too stiff feeling, no sense of where the head is, flight too low, not enough spin, too many hooks (which is my miss when a shaft is too stiff). I reached out to KBS and they were adamant SW was the problem. They said fitting clubs with the sleeve often come in around D4/5 SW. They recommended I put lead tape on mine to get them to D3. Trying that tomorrow...wish me luck. 

[Tdsjfb]

3 hours ago, JD3 said:

I just got a new set with $-Taper in stiff. My 7 iron SS is 85. I played KBS Tour S for years and liked them except for the feeling of some excess "bendiness" in the middle of the shaft. When I demod a 7 iron with $-taper earlier this year they seemed like a dream combo of KBS tour flight but without the Gumby center shaft bend. When the new clubs came in the SW was light at D1. And I have been having fits with these shafts. Too stiff feeling, no sense of where the head is, flight too low, not enough spin, too many hooks (which is my miss when a shaft is too stiff). I reached out to KBS and they were adamant SW was the problem. They said fitting clubs with the sleeve often come in around D4/5 SW. They recommended I put lead tape on mine to get them to D3. Trying that tomorrow...wish me luck. 

I played the KBS Tour (S) for 8 years. Really liked the feel, but they did balloon. Moved to $ Taper (120-S), soft stepped 1X, and love them. I've lost alot of swing speed in the last 10 years (I'm 61), but absolutely love the $ Tapers.

[JD3]

On 6/3/2021 at 5:43 PM, Tdsjfb said:

I played the KBS Tour (S) for 8 years. Really liked the feel, but they did balloon. Moved to $ Taper (120-S), soft stepped 1X, and love them. I've lost alot of swing speed in the last 10 years (I'm 61), but absolutely love the $ Tapers.

Was hitting better with the D3 weighted clubs. But imo the $-taper is a much different shaft than the tour. If I had to go it again maybe I'd go with $-taper but one flex weaker--which is kind of what you did by soft stepping. For the season I will play it out with these and whole set being D3. For one thing the less forgiving shaft is at least requiring me to refocus on sharpening up my swing. I'm also going to replace my wedges with firmer shafted ones, probably S300. Which will work better than KBS HiRev. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by JD3

[Hoyoymac]

Been a fan of KBS shafts for a while and have progressed from KBS Tour 105’s to Tour V 110’s to $-Taper 120s as my game has improved, swing speed increased and my needs have evolved.  

 

When I recently switched to a new set of irons I tried both the C-Taper S+ 125gram shafts and the $-Taper Stiff 120 gram shafts in them and the $-Tapers are the clear winner for me.  

 

The $-Taper shafts have really tamed my occasional hook miss and now I’m hitting beautiful straight shots with a mid trajectory that one hop and stop or spin back slightly.

 

The C-Tapers were very playable but a bit lower trajectory and just felt like more work to swing the club.  

 

Still playing the KBS Tour V 125 gram wedge shaft in my gap, sand and lob wedges.

[justcallmemoses]

25 minutes ago, Hoyoymac said:

Been a fan of KBS shafts for a while and have progressed from KBS Tour 105’s to Tour V 110’s to $-Taper 120s as my game has improved, swing speed increased and my needs have evolved.  

 

When I recently switched to a new set of irons I tried both the C-Taper S+ 125gram shafts and the $-Taper Stiff 120 gram shafts in them and the $-Tapers are the clear winner for me.  

 

The $-Taper shafts have really tamed my occasional hook miss and now I’m hitting beautiful straight shots with a mid trajectory that one hop and stop or spin back slightly.

 

The C-Tapers were very playable but a bit lower trajectory and just felt like more work to swing the club.  

 

Still playing the KBS Tour V 125 gram wedge shaft in my gap, sand and lob wedges.

 

Is the feel of the tour v wedge shaft close the the $ taper or is it stiffer in the handle?

 

I got fit into $ tapers recently so curious what shafts others are playing in fairways/hybrids 

[nova6868]

The Tour-V wedge shaft is pretty similar to the KBS 610 125 shaft. Compared to S-Taper it's very stiff in the butt and mid then goes softer in the tip. Theoretically should be lower launch but maintain spin. The feel is very stiff compared to most wedge shafts. The shaft feels very "one piece" if that makes sense. They both easily handle full swings if you want to hit full wedges. Even the 610 120 shaft is pretty stiff. Personally I love the tight feel and the ball flight.

Edited November 3, 2021 by nova6868

[justcallmemoses]

23 hours ago, nova6868 said:

The Tour-V wedge shaft is pretty similar to the KBS 610 125 shaft. Compared to S-Taper it's very stiff in the butt and mid then goes softer in the tip. Theoretically should be lower launch but maintain spin. The feel is very stiff compared to most wedge shafts. The shaft feels very "one piece" if that makes sense. They both easily handle full swings if you want to hit full wedges. Even the 610 120 shaft is pretty stiff. Personally I love the tight feel and the ball flight.

Out of curiosity how is the $ taper actually in terms of profile? Despite me being fitted to them recently i don’t actually know the details apart from it being a mid launch shaft 

 

mid butt

soft mid

mid tip

[nova6868]

I don't have the profile graphic but I've seen it before. S-Taper is really about the same profile as the KBS Tour. Constant taper design. It has a different manufacturing process though (hence higher cost), most seem to think it's a little lower spin than KBS Tour. 

[WSUWarriorPGAPro]

Have tried the KBS Tour 120 S shafts a few years ago.  Tried them coming off of DGS400's, which I have used since college in the 1990's.  I was not a fan.  The Tour was counterbalanced a bit and I could not feel the heads of the irons at all.  (Swing weights were D0 to D1.)  I was fit into C-Taper 120 S shafts later on in a set of AP2s.  The numbers were good in the fitting head.  The set of clubs that came sucked.  The C-Tapers did not feel counterbalanced in the fitting head, but they sure were in the set of AP2s when they showed up.  Shaft played/felt WAY too stiff for me.  I then switched back to S400's for another few years, until this year.  I now have KBS $-Taper 130s in my irons.  The numbers were better than my S400's, and they did launch a tad higher.  I could once again feel the heads and this set of clubs came out at D-2.5 through the set (except for the PW, which is fine) with a variance of .5 of a swing weight point at the most!!  The dispersion is way better and I am getting used to them.  So far, so good!  Still have DGS400 Tour issues in my SW and LW, though.

[justcallmemoses]

Is there any driver shaft that has a similar launch profile and feel to the $ Taper?

[Ireland2]

Just bought some MP-20 MMC’s in clearance sale that came with the $ Taper 120 S as stock shaft.

 

Really struggling with it. Feels heavy (it’s lighter than last shaft I had), harsh, very stiff and not smooth.

 

For those experts among you, any initial reaction to why?

 

- 5 Handicap

- Late 40’s, not very strong

- 82mph 7-iron

- Half-swing, very wristy

- Quick transition

- Quite shallow but a hitter rather than smooth swinger.

- Have been fitted in to Modus 120 Stiff

- Had previously been playing stock Dynamic Gold S300 stiff in Titleist CB’s.

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Ireland2

[mjguzik]

Played $-Taper 115 in a set of irons for almost 18 months.  Tried to get along with them, yet could not get the feedback even after pulling and soft stepping them.  Was coming from an old set of ISI Pings with Z-Z65s.  Felt like I needed to redline on my swing for them to load.  Yet loved the lower flight and accuracy I was getting.  Realized I had a smoother swing than would work with these.  Now in a set with Modus 3 105S and loving it.  These are still very accurate like the $-taper yet much easier to load. 

[nova6868]

10 hours ago, Ireland2 said:

Just bought some MP-20 MMC’s in clearance sale that came with the $ Taper 120 S as stock shaft.

 

Really struggling with it. Feels heavy (it’s lighter than last shaft I had), harsh, very stiff and not smooth.

 

For those experts among you, any initial reaction to why?

 

- 5 Handicap

- Late 40’s, not very strong

- 82mph 7-iron

- Half-swing, very wristy

- Quick transition

- Quite shallow but a hitter rather than smooth swinger.

- Have been fitted in to Modus 120 Stiff

- Had previously been playing stock Dynamic Gold S300 stiff in Titleist CB’s.

 

 

 

They are pretty different compared to Modus 120 stiff. They are stiffer overall and much stiffer in the midsection. 

 

 

[Ireland2]

10 hours ago, nova6868 said:

 

 

They are pretty different compared to Modus 120 stiff. They are stiffer overall and much stiffer in the midsection. 

 

 

Thanks - I knew it was slightly risky buying off the shelf.

 

Whilst I was fitted in to Modus 120, plenty of other shafts felt good (or better). The Modus just seemed to be giving me decent numbers. Never had a problem with old Dynamic Gold stiff shafts…

 

…But these feel like boards. Got no feeling on the strike and actually hurting my back after a lot of swings.

 

I know swing speed is only a small part of the equation but is 80-82mph 7-iron just too slow for these?

[dmeeksDC]

6 hours ago, Ireland2 said:

Thanks - I knew it was slightly risky buying off the shelf.

 

Whilst I was fitted in to Modus 120, plenty of other shafts felt good (or better). The Modus just seemed to be giving me decent numbers. Never had a problem with old Dynamic Gold stiff shafts…

 

…But these feel like boards. Got no feeling on the strike and actually hurting my back after a lot of swings.

 

I know swing speed is only a small part of the equation but is 80-82mph 7-iron just too slow for these?

You’re not the first guy to be surprised by the stiffness of the $ Taper stiff. My 7 iron is 86-87 and I find the $ Taper feels pretty stiff. It is much stiffer than a Modus 120, which is not a very stiff shaft to begin with, and the 120 stiff is actually a 114 gram shaft (The X flex is 120g). I typically play stiff shafts but in the KBS $ Taper or Tour I go regular or reg-plus or and that makes a big difference. Also can hard-step a regular to dial it in. An $ Taper HT in regular flex would be about perfect for me. 
 

I also like the KBS parallel shafts that can be tip trimmed to very precise stiffness for individual players. Great shafts. I’m about to order some New Level 902-OS irons and the owner, Eric Burch, sent me a chart and said I can get the shafts at whatever frequency I want. (I am going with KBS Tour regulars trimmed to play one notch stiffer at 5.5 frequency.)
 

Flex doesn’t mean much between shaft makers, it can vary so much. An $ Taper reg flex feels similar to a DG 120 s300 to me. Your speed is right on the edge but definitely not too fast for a regular $Taper unless you have a pretty aggressive transition. At the same time, you are fast enough to play the $Taper, it is more a question of whether you enjoy it. I also pay a lot more attention to shaft weight. I found myself working too hard with the 120 stiff but the 110 reg feels awesome. Keep us posted. You may get used to the $Taper stiff or you may want to compare the feel to a regular. 

 

[justcallmemoses]

Does anyone know if the hzrdus smoke black hybrid shaft has a similar feel to the $ taper? I love the $ taper in my irons 

[Ireland2]

2 hours ago, dmeeksDC said:

You’re not the first guy to be surprised by the stiffness of the $ Taper stiff. My 7 iron is 86-87 and I find the $ Taper feels pretty stiff. It is much stiffer than a Modus 120, which is not a very stiff shaft to begin with, and the 120 stiff is actually a 114 gram shaft (The X flex is 120g). I typically play stiff shafts but in the KBS $ Taper or Tour I go regular or reg-plus or and that makes a big difference. Also can hard-step a regular to dial it in. An $ Taper HT in regular flex would be about perfect for me. 
 

I also like the KBS parallel shafts that can be tip trimmed to very precise stiffness for individual players. Great shafts. I’m about to order some New Level 902-OS irons and the owner, Eric Burch, sent me a chart and said I can get the shafts at whatever frequency I want. (I am going with KBS Tour regulars trimmed to play one notch stiffer at 5.5 frequency.)
 

Flex doesn’t mean much between shaft makers, it can vary so much. An $ Taper reg flex feels similar to a DG 120 s300 to me. Your speed is right on the edge but definitely not too fast for a regular $Taper unless you have a pretty aggressive transition. At the same time, you are fast enough to play the $Taper, it is more a question of whether you enjoy it. I also pay a lot more attention to shaft weight. I found myself working too hard with the 120 stiff but the 110 reg feels awesome. Keep us posted. You may get used to the $Taper stiff or you may want to compare the feel to a regular. 

 

Thanks - great response and much appreciated…

 

I will say that whilst I couldn’t get consistent launch or feel, my dispersion on the course was surprisingly good.

 

Will report back with more golf under my belt.

[bobfoster]

I've been playing MP20 MMCs with KBS $-Taper 120s for a few months now. Positively love this shaft. Have recently mostly been playing Project X or TT (with the exception of one flirtation with OBAN that seriously didn't work for me). These are the first KBS shafts I've played. 

 

Shafts are quite personal - these for some reason just fit my swing perfectly. Find it easy to load them (as I've gotten older, my SS has slowed a bit), really like the ball flight, control, and I get plenty of feedback without it feeling harsh (which is different than what others here have apparently experienced). 

 

Yes, a bit more expensive than the norm, but if I'm going to pay over a grand for a set of irons I'm not going to quibble about adding $10 or $15 extra for the shaft - I'm solely looking to optimize the engineering in the clubhead, fine-tune it to my swing. These do. I've got a winner.  

 

For anyone considering them - they may or may not work for you, but they are most definitely worth at least taking out for a spin. It is a quality product, with a lot of subtlety in design.

[WSUWarriorPGAPro]

On 11/26/2021 at 6:54 AM, Ireland2 said:

Just bought some MP-20 MMC’s in clearance sale that came with the $ Taper 120 S as stock shaft.

 

Really struggling with it. Feels heavy (it’s lighter than last shaft I had), harsh, very stiff and not smooth.

 

For those experts among you, any initial reaction to why?

 

- 5 Handicap

- Late 40’s, not very strong

- 82mph 7-iron

- Half-swing, very wristy

- Quick transition

- Quite shallow but a hitter rather than smooth swinger.

- Have been fitted in to Modus 120 Stiff

- Had previously been playing stock Dynamic Gold S300 stiff in Titleist CB’s.

 

Is it the HT version of the $-taper shaft?  (Just asking.)  That one has a heavier tip to it than the standard $-Taper.  I think the main difference between the $-Taper and the Tour shaft is the Tour shaft is somewhat counterbalanced.  The $-Taper is not.  (Maybe someone can confirm.)  The $-Taper is positioned to fill a space between the C-Taper (feels like rebar to me) and the Tour (which spins too much for me and I can't feel the clubheads with it.)  The $-Taper feels (to me) like a more consistent (in dispersion) Dynamic Gold S400.  (Which is probably why I like the $-taper shaft, since it have used that shaft since college, other than a couple brief departures from it.

[WSUWarriorPGAPro]

On 11/27/2021 at 12:43 PM, justcallmemoses said:

Does anyone know if the hzrdus smoke black hybrid shaft has a similar feel to the $ taper? I love the $ taper in my irons 

I'd just get a KBS Prototype Graphite Hybrid shaft in a 95 gram weight.  That shaft feels pretty similar to me in mine, but shafts are quite individual preference.  

[nova6868]

The S-Taper is slightly counterbalanced. Will drop swingweight about a point compared to DG. KBS Tour is more counterbalanced, drops swingweight about 2 points.