So How Far Do Average Golfers Really Hit the Ball?

[North Butte]

The solution is to get better and be realistic. There is no magic bullet other than practice and a solid grasp of your current ability.

 

Exactly. A bad shot is usually a bad shot. Not a stupid choice of club.

[northgolf]

The solution is to get better and be realistic. There is no magic bullet other than practice and a solid grasp of your current ability.

 

Exactly. A bad shot is usually a bad shot. Not a stupid choice of club.

 

So I was playing with Schnee last summer and I hit my 56* wedge 10 yards off the back of a thirty yard deep green when the pin was at the front (not bladed, just a wonder shot). My 56 usually carries 85 yards, takes a hop, then spins back to where it landed - that one went at least 115 in the air. So, 99% of the time this was the right club for me, End result is my "potential" good shot smacked me with a seriously bad shot.

[North Texas]

"Well, I've only been playing with this 30 handicapper pretty much every week for about 5-6 years now so I'm going to flat out tell you that I know better than you in this case. This guy has a pretty good idea of how far he hits the ball on a normal, well hit shot. Now obviously he hits a bad shot more often than he hits a good shot. But when he is 150 yards out, he knows what club will go 150 yards if he hits it good. Don't know why that's hard to believe but I guess it is for you."

 

 

 

 

Because it's simply not a fact for a 30 handicapper. What you mean to say is he gets lucky one out of twenty times and just happens to hit one a certain distance after it rolls out, comes to rest after being chunked, hits a sprinkler head etc. More than likely he has trouble gauging a chip or 20 yard pitch let alone what you suggest. The chances you know the one in a million 30 handicapper that can accurately predict his yardage over water to a 10 yard deep island green from 150 yards with any regularity are astronomical. But of course everyone here hits 320 yard five irons so maybe you are right.

 

 

Are you even reading what I post? Because your reply has nothing to do with what I posted.

 

To keep it simple just focus on what the bold part says. That's really all that matters in this conversation.

 

And its really not a fact unless you added a zero to his handicap. To keep it simple go back and read what the bold part says. You cant change reality just because you saw something happen once in a blue moon.

 

 

"he knows what club will go 150 yards if he hits it good."

 

I guess I need to narrow it down a little more for you. Focus on the word "if" from the above. I've never said how often he does hit it good. It doesn't happen very often but it does happen from time to time.

 

Again, most of what you are posting has nothing to do with what I'm posting.

[buckeyefl]

The solution is to get better and be realistic. There is no magic bullet other than practice and a solid grasp of your current ability.

 

Exactly. A bad shot is usually a bad shot. Not a stupid choice of club.

 

So I was playing with Schnee last summer and I hit my 56* wedge 10 yards off the back of a thirty yard deep green when the pin was at the front (not bladed, just a wonder shot). My 56 usually carries 85 yards, takes a hop, then spins back to where it landed - that one went at least 115 in the air. So, 99% of the time this was the right club for me, End result is my "potential" good shot smacked me with a seriously bad shot.

 

30yards with a wedge? That's more than potential.

[Golfjack]

People who don't know their distances or think they know but frequently either air mail it or hit it short should just do a quick test of hitting 10 shots with the club. Now hitting 10 in a row should give the golfer an advantage, and laser each shot as accurately as they can (or better on a launch monitor). Then a 30 cap or even a 20 cap would basically have something like for a 7 iron 120, 140, 135, 140, 160, 145, 130, 123, 110, 150. Excluding any serious duff shots that go less than 100 of course. So this set would yield 135.3, and that's what they should assume the 7 iron is going. You want to do median etc sure for some data sets it might make more sense. The chances of them air mailing the green is really only 2 out of 10. 2 shots would be a little short and one barely on. Rest are on. It's a better result versus the golfer going for 150 and missing 7 out of 10 times. A better golfer would have a better dispersion in terms of distance control, and have a much higher chance for success and average. Say like 145, 150, 148, 153, 155, 153, 151, 149, 153, 140. That's 149.7.

 

Why argue for that possible 160 for the high cap? It's the exact same reason why the high cap likes to wait for the green to clear so he can try to hit a 3 wood 220 and proceeds to hit it 120. It's pointless. And they don't have the skill to do it.

[SurfDuffer]

From what I've seen "Average Golfers" suck badly. Hang out near the first tee at any golf course and you will see what I mean.

[northgolf]

The solution is to get better and be realistic. There is no magic bullet other than practice and a solid grasp of your current ability.

 

Exactly. A bad shot is usually a bad shot. Not a stupid choice of club.

 

So I was playing with Schnee last summer and I hit my 56* wedge 10 yards off the back of a thirty yard deep green when the pin was at the front (not bladed, just a wonder shot). My 56 usually carries 85 yards, takes a hop, then spins back to where it landed - that one went at least 115 in the air. So, 99% of the time this was the right club for me, End result is my "potential" good shot smacked me with a seriously bad shot.

 

30yards with a wedge? That's more than potential.

 

I had/have the 6-8 ballerina move deeply ingrained in my swing due to horrendous instruction when I was a kid and then decades of practicing it. When I accidentally get the sequence right then I nuke the ball. I spent a lot of time this winter working on externally rotating my right leg during transition (picture the drop the bucket drill where the lead knee goes forward and the trail knee stays pointed straight forward). Pair that work with a strong effort to externally rotate the lead shoulder into impact (prevents chicken wing) and I am getting about 20 yards more throughout the bag. I'm just starting to feel how to swing the club that way - once I get that feel I think I can crank up the speed a couple of notches as there is nothing blocking me coming in to impact.

 

That's the theory at least, and you know what they say about theory.

 

Back to the OT, is all the back and forth in this thread due to the "average golfer" being a mathematical construct that every golfer is deviant of in at least some aspect?

[North Texas]

People who don't know their distances or think they know but frequently either air mail it or hit it short should just do a quick test of hitting 10 shots with the club. Now hitting 10 in a row should give the golfer an advantage, and laser each shot as accurately as they can (or better on a launch monitor). Then a 30 cap or even a 20 cap would basically have something like for a 7 iron 120, 140, 135, 140, 160, 145, 130, 123, 110, 150. Excluding any serious duff shots that go less than 100 of course. So this set would yield 135.3, and that's what they should assume the 7 iron is going. You want to do median etc sure for some data sets it might make more sense. The chances of them air mailing the green is really only 2 out of 10. 2 shots would be a little short and one barely on. Rest are on. It's a better result versus the golfer going for 150 and missing 7 out of 10 times. A better golfer would have a better dispersion in terms of distance control, and have a much higher chance for success and average. Say like 145, 150, 148, 153, 155, 153, 151, 149, 153, 140. That's 149.7.

 

Why argue for that possible 160 for the high cap? It's the exact same reason why the high cap likes to wait for the green to clear so he can try to hit a 3 wood 220 and proceeds to hit it 120. It's pointless. And they don't have the skill to do it.

 

So, if a 30 handicapper has the "skill" to hit a 3 wood 180 yards, should he wait for the green to clear or should he go ahead and hit?

[North Butte]

Even if only 1 shot in 20 with that 3-wood could reach the people on the green, he should not swing it until they are out of range. Nobody likes being hit into and for sure nobody likes being tagged up aside the head with a "1 in 20" shot, no matter how unlikely it might have been. That's simple golf course safety.

 

Good luck telling the guy with the goose egg sized knot on his face that you thought you were going to duff the shot instead of hitting him...

[Golfjack]

Ok that's a fair point. They should wait for safety's sake. But then if it's a one in twenty probably should take a 7 iron instead?

[buckeyefl]

People who don't know their distances or think they know but frequently either air mail it or hit it short should just do a quick test of hitting 10 shots with the club. Now hitting 10 in a row should give the golfer an advantage, and laser each shot as accurately as they can (or better on a launch monitor). Then a 30 cap or even a 20 cap would basically have something like for a 7 iron 120, 140, 135, 140, 160, 145, 130, 123, 110, 150. Excluding any serious duff shots that go less than 100 of course. So this set would yield 135.3, and that's what they should assume the 7 iron is going. You want to do median etc sure for some data sets it might make more sense. The chances of them air mailing the green is really only 2 out of 10. 2 shots would be a little short and one barely on. Rest are on. It's a better result versus the golfer going for 150 and missing 7 out of 10 times. A better golfer would have a better dispersion in terms of distance control, and have a much higher chance for success and average. Say like 145, 150, 148, 153, 155, 153, 151, 149, 153, 140. That's 149.7.

 

Why argue for that possible 160 for the high cap? It's the exact same reason why the high cap likes to wait for the green to clear so he can try to hit a 3 wood 220 and proceeds to hit it 120. It's pointless. And they don't have the skill to do it.

 

Good advice.

 

I need to check my wedges this year and use the same process for irons.

 

Find an open area, a laser and a friend if you have one available. Take two stacks of the ball that you typically play and find a directional target on flat land that you can't possibly reach. Now take two clubs with a gap between them of at least on club. Let's say PW and 8I. Now hit one pw toward your distant target then an 8I. Always alternate when possible since golf doesn't give you do overs. Once finished with the 10 shots with each club use the laser to find the average. Duffs and skulls will obviously not count and you want the CARRY distance. You now have a yardage for your PW,9,8 and 7 and possibly GW. Once you get into longer clubs it's a good idea to do them individually as the gaps will oftentimes be unique because of skill level. Write it all down and you are off to the races. It makes the game infinitely easier when you can say to yourself "if I hit this an average distance for this club it will fly X".

 

When carrying hazards never use the best case scenario. If you average 150 with a 7 iron and are going over water to a flag that is going to put you in the drink if you miss by 5 yards then club up. It seems like common sense but people tend to think absolute best case scenario instead of giving themselves some room to miss.

 

Also try to use a GPS that gives you distance to the front and back to aid in figuring out what club will get you on the dance floor with an average shot. Also pay attention to where you ball lands and learn to adjust your daily yardage based on weather, contact, and elevation.

[andrue]

Well for what it's worth this 20 handicapper (unofficial) seems to know his distances. I use a Garmin GPS and aside from the occasional miss-hit my ball ends up at the distance that I expected. I'm not so sure about carry but ask me to fly a ball any distance between 200 and 60 yards and can do it nine times out of ten. Eight times out of ten on a bad day. What I'm not so hot at is ensuring that the ball follows the correct target line :-/

[buckeyefl]

So what's the yardage when it flys straight? It's going to be off significantly one way or the other. Short high right fade or low screaming left hook makes a big difference. Is your shot shape predictable? Are you playing links courses where you can get there on the ground?

[Pepperturbo]

Hitting a ball over a lake in front of a green is hard. If you catch it on the toe or with the face open or a little steep or a bit fat or flip at it or do any of a dozen other things that duffers do every round, the ball will end up in the lake.

 

Again, is the solution to hit driver from 120 yards so you'll have the best chance of clearing the lake? Then what do you do when you drop-kick the driver into the lake?

 

My home course has a long Par 5 with a pond the last 90 yards in front of the green. Most times I play the hole, two good shots leave me an 8-iron or 9-iron off a slight downslope to the green. Needs at least 100 yards to get over the water and 120-130 to the hole usually.

 

About a third of the times I play that hole I either fat it or blade it and end up in the water. If I'm only going to make decent contact off the downslope 2 out of 3 times with an 8-iron, do you think I ought to hit a 7-iron instead? Think a bladed 7-iron will fly 100 yards? Or maybe a 6-iron? 5-iron? Fairway wood?

 

Most golfers, especially those in mid-hi cap range look at the pond and yardage to pin on the other side; while totally ignoring the effects of the pond on the ball and cover yardage to opposite side of pond. Add any form of mishit and that ball is in the drink. The added humidity of a good size pond on the ball has to considered. Based upon cover yardage and yardage to pin, a minimum of one more club, maybe two depending on ball striking. On slightly down hill lie, the tendency is to stand erect as if on flat turf. Level your shoulders to be parallel with the slope, choose your club carefully, and note that condition will lead to pulling the ball left.

[North Butte]

Humid air is LESS dense than dry air.

 

Perhaps you meant to say that the possibly cooler temperature immediately above the surface of the water may affect the carry of the ball, although it seems to me it would have to be a pretty big difference to matter more than a yard or two.

[buckeyefl]

How far is it from the water to one or two yard outside of the water? Always give yourself a buffer.

[andrue]

So what's the yardage when it flys straight? It's going to be off significantly one way or the other. Short high right fade or low screaming left hook makes a big difference. Is your shot shape predictable? Are you playing links courses where you can get there on the ground?

Me? Yes, repeatable. I play parkland courses though. I suspect I would struggle on links courses as my accuracy isn't brilliant. My driver fades a little bit (I'm working on straightening it) but goes where I intend most of the time. The rest are variable. When they don't go where I intend it's mostly pulls but some pushes. Most of my strokes are lost either with chipping or careless putting. I have a tendency to see putting as unimportant because I'm good at it. That's very silly but it's because I'm quite good at it. I tend to want to just get past it so that I can practice the rest of my clubs :-/

[Pepperturbo]

Humid air is LESS dense than dry air.

 

Perhaps you meant to say that the possibly cooler temperature immediately above the surface of the water may affect the carry of the ball, although it seems to me it would have to be a pretty big difference to matter more than a yard or two.

 

You missed my greater intent. Less dense or more, dryer or not, starting with a miss struck ball, both can affect whether the ball reaches its intended distance or target. And +/- 6" can mean the ball is dry or in the drink.

 

Changing the humidity from 10% to 100% will only lower the ball peak height less than a foot and add about 1 yard of extra carry distance, and that’s at tour professional ball speeds (ball launch speed of 175 mph). Note the 1 yard of extra distance at tour ball speeds. :lol: :beach:

[North Butte]

Well yeah, when you mishit a shot over water it often gets wet. I've noticed that too.

[Pepperturbo]

Well yeah, when you mishit a shot over water it often gets wet. I've noticed that too.

 

Yeah, but poor judgment played the leading roll. It led to poor club choice and didn't factor in poor ball striking. Two variables that led to the ball being in the drink. :lol: :beach:

[rawdog]

So what's the yardage when it flys straight? It's going to be off significantly one way or the other. Short high right fade or low screaming left hook makes a big difference. Is your shot shape predictable? Are you playing links courses where you can get there on the ground?

Me? Yes, repeatable. I play parkland courses though. I suspect I would struggle on links courses as my accuracy isn't brilliant. My driver fades a little bit (I'm working on straightening it) but goes where I intend most of the time. The rest are variable. When they don't go where I intend it's mostly pulls but some pushes. Most of my strokes are lost either with chipping or careless putting. I have a tendency to see putting as unimportant because I'm good at it. That's very silly but it's because I'm quite good at it. I tend to want to just get past it so that I can practice the rest of my clubs :-/

 

Not a silly thought at all. It takes more effort to trim strokes off your score by practicing putting versus practicing your driving and approach shots. Mark Broadie is the author of Every Shot Counts and has measured that as golfers improve, the improvements come in 4 areas: Driving, Approach, Short and Putting.

 

I took a picture of the relevant table. Keep in mind, this chart is built from millions of golf shots. It doesn't hold true for everyone. But as a typical 110 player advances to a 100 player, those 10 shots are saved in the following areas: 3.4 from driving better, 3.7 from better approaches, 1.7 from better short game, and 1.2 from making more putts!

 

The numbers are similar going from 100 to 90. So if you think you're already a good putter, go work on another area of the game that will have more of an impact on score. And go get yourself a copy of the book!

[gambit]

Another distance thread. I swear that same data by GD was spit out a few years ago as well.

[Sean2]

Another distance thread. I swear that same data by GD was spit out a few years ago as well.

 

That can't be right. Every year we are promised 17 more yards...so we have to be around 41 yards longer than we were a few years ago.

[andrue]

The numbers are similar going from 100 to 90. So if you think you're already a good putter, go work on another area of the game that will have more of an impact on score. And go get yourself a copy of the book!

That table makes sense. I have a Game Golf unit and although I haven't used it over Winter it was also saying that I could gain the most shots on my approach. The Insights section is currently saying I lose strokes as follows:

 

Off the tee: 5.69

Approach: 8.66

Short game: 5.39

Putting (my saviour :) ): -0.29

 

I think the first one is actually skewed. The last couple of times I used it I was trying different things to straighten out my drive and several of them went a bit wrong. If I ignore those it drops to 2.67/8.2/5.1/-0.24.

 

Looking specifically at approaches, from outside of 100 yards (but less than 200 yards) I'm short 50% of the time and hit the green 35% of the time. Interesting 19% go right, 4% go left (I'd have thought it the other way) with 4% being long.

 

From inside 100 yards I'm short 33%, on the green 58% and 3% left and long, 0% right.

 

The dispersal pattern for inside 100 yards doesn't suggest anything much. There's a few stragglers that didn't quite make it but simply increasing my distance would push a lot off the back.

 

But the pattern for outside 100 yards does suggest that another five yards would bring more balls onto the green than would go off the back.

 

I'm going to start using Game Golf again when there's enough evening light to get 18 holes in after work. That might be tonight but the weather in the south of the UK has been annoying this week. A bit chilly but most irritating rain belts start passing through starting around 4pm. I spend all day at a desk end enjoy a lunchtime walk..then it starts raining just when I'm thinking of heading to my club :-/

[andrue]

Lol!

 

Golf can be funny sometimes. For all my rounds my fairway accuracy is 53%. If I leave the last few dodgy rounds off my fairway accuracy is 63%. Even more interesting (to me at least) is that playing around a bit more shows that my fairway accuracy is highest at Rye Hill (which is a 7000 yard course that held a couple of rounds of the Euro-pro tour a while back) whereas at my own club (Cherwell Edge - 5800 yards) it drops to 54%. I suppose that's down to fairway width.

 

Still - 63% when I'm not 'experimenting' is pretty good I think. My drive might rarely exceed 200 yards but at least it doesn't get me into much trouble :)

 

For the record Game Golf says that my typical drive is 167 yards, But dispersal suggests 145 to 190 is the likely range. Longest ever was 214 yards. But I only bought Game Golf late last year so it's never recorded my playing through summer. That ought to add a few yards.

 

Curiously my 5 and 6 clubs are interchangeable distance-wise but that was my old set. It doesn't have any info the new ones.

[HitEmTrue]

Ok that's a fair point. They should wait for safety's sake. But then if it's a one in twenty probably should take a 7 iron instead?

 

No. A topped 3-wood should get much closer to the green than a chunked 7-iron. :)

 

But 5 wood may be better than a 3.

 

[Golfjack]

Ok that's a fair point. They should wait for safety's sake. But then if it's a one in twenty probably should take a 7 iron instead?

 

No. A topped 3-wood should get much closer to the green than a chunked 7-iron. :)

 

But 5 wood may be better than a 3.

 

Well a 30 handicapper should have a higher incidence of topping a 3 wood versus chunking a 7 iron. It's still about probability. In fact most 30 cappers shouldn't even have woods in their bags.

[aliikane]

Most higher handicaps over estimate their distances or base their distances on the few times they cranked it carried far. They also underestimate the wind's power to decrease yardage.