Beginner DIY vs Paying Club Builder For High End Iron Set...?

Mych · January 17, 2019

For a high-end set with precise specs (especially if anything needs to be bent or hotmelted), I'd get someone to do it who has experience, tools, parts (tip weights, ferrules, shims, extensions, etc), and would offer some level of reassurance that everything is made to spec.

If you want to be part of the process but don't want to make rookie mistakes on expensive equipment, I'd find a local member who has clubmaking experience and ask how much beer it would cost for you to look over his shoulder while he builds your set. That way you can also see what tools you may want to get for your desired level of at-home work. If it's just grips, a hook blade, some grip tape, and solvent is really all you need.

Mych · January 17, 2019

Lay out a couple of thousand on tools, set up your shop. Spend half an hour in the shop once a week and in ten years you still won't have the skills to do any kind of good work.

Attend someone's clubmaking school, like Maltby's. Lay out a couple of thousand on tools, set up your shop. Spend ten hours in the shop every week and in ten years you will have the skills to do fairly good work.

It's not THAT complicated. He's not refinishing persimmon woods. With the stuff thats available now, putting together irons is easy. The hardest part for him would be turning down ferrules

Agree that it's not that hard, but some simple things like how to properly prepare a tip and mix/apply epoxy can really cause problems with a set of irons. Head flies off and bounces down a cart path and you've ruined an expensive club. The little things that we take for granted after doing them dozens of times are what may cause a first timer issues.

From a fit/finish standpoint, turning down (or selecting the right size) ferrule, having the right type of vise clamp to prevent shaft damage, etc.

When everything goes right, it's super easy. But experience helps you figure out what to do (or not to do) when things don't go right the first time.

Rosco1216 · January 17, 2019

it's not as difficult as you'd think and you don't NEED as much equipment as you think. If you don't mind adjusting SW with lead tape after you put the together then it is really pretty simple. You just need to think ahead.

bulls9999 · January 17, 2019

I like all the reasons you list. I'm not afraid to tackle something I am not familiar with, and if it costs, I just use the excuse on my wife, "hey, your brother ran Iron Man triathlons in Hawaii like a dozen times....that's costs big bucks, right? ($1,500 bicycles x 6; hotel/airfare, entrance fees, etc)...so tolerate my little golf hobby!!". I put my own in-ground sprinkler system in at age 60 that was 10x better than the commercial ones my neighbors had done for them, lol.

Last set of irons, LOL.

It's a big distinction if you want to work on graphite or not, as the shaft puller is expensive and swingweighting is a lot tougher without simply slugging the hosels with tip weights.

Every time I read these types of thread I think that most of the guys who are inquiring are not very handy. If you don't have a vise or torch laying around you're afraid of spending the 50 or 60 bucks to acquire those two things, then you're probably better just having a shop do your work.

I don't know that it makes sense financially to have the stuff need for clubmaking / repair around your house, but I will say, it is worth it to me for a multitude of reasons, in order of priority:

1) I know it's done right. HUGE. Golf is a game of confidence. If you keep hitting your seven and it comes up short, you go check the loft. Looks okay? Bend it a degree or two strong anyways and see what happens. Thinking you have something fixed is as powerful as fixing it often enough.

2) Don't have to wait on a shop. Grips, loft and lie, perhaps an experimental 6 iron 1/2" long - just go down stairs and do it, don't have to think if I could sneak 9 holes in while the clubs are at the shop.

3) Do what works for me. A friend took his 3 wood into the shop a couple of weeks ago to have an inch cut off the shaft. He's a new player, but comes over from baseball and has a lot of talent. Owner of the LGS insists that he's an idiot and shouldn't give up that kind of distance, that he will regret it. He almost didn't do it. He pulls my 3 wood out of the bag and holds it up to his, yup - same length. Gapped off the 2H or 5W not the driver. Duh.

4) LEARN. More about my clubs, the technology, what works for me. This should probably be number 1, but it is less instantly gratifying.

asw7576 · January 17, 2019

I leave my projects to the expert to build of course ...

I already have enough headcahe in office .

PepsiDuck · January 18, 2019

In case I didn’t mention it, I did end up taking the irons to a shop to have built. There was quite a bit more involved, especially with getting the counterweight right (C-7 SW) and getting total weight within 5 g tolerance across the whole set (aside from one outlier that was 10 g off the heaviest club).

My builder did a great job and I don’t regret leaving it to him.

bulls9999 · January 18, 2019

As far as a 'torch', can a 'hot air gun' be used for pulling shafts or will it not get hot enough to melt the epoxy? (is there a more appropriate thread to ask these questions on club building?)

Rosco1216 · January 18, 2019

A heat gun works fine with steel. If working with graphite and wanting to re-use the shaft you will need a shaft puller and be careful with how much heat you apply.

Matt J · January 18, 2019

As far as a 'torch', can a 'hot air gun' be used for pulling shafts or will it not get hot enough to melt the epoxy? (is there a more appropriate thread to ask these questions on club building?)

Both a heat gun and a torch have their own place in club building. I am curious why it seems there is always a lot of reticence to buy a torch, which I don't understand. They're inexpensive and useful. Perhaps they seem too dangerous for many?

I like to warm the ferrule with a heat gun and push it up the shaft a little so it doesn't melt onto the club hosel. Then I blast the hosel with a mixed fuel torch, works great. I put thick leather gloves on so I can handle everything and usually the pressure pops the head off, so I do it on my bench with a towel down to catch it. I then take the shaft and club head over to my utility sink and run them under cold water until room temp again. If I have no intention of attempting to reuse the ferrule I cut it off with a utility knife before I torch the head.

I guess you could use a "hair dryer" style heat gun, but do you really want to take 10 minutes to do something that takes 3 to save 20 bucks?

BTW, the OP came back a couple of posts ago and stated his result.... WRX isn't really concerned about indexing all the threads and not having repeats like a lot of other forums, so it's fine to kind of "thread jack" his thread at this point. Ask away... although it's probably just as efficient to search as some of these questions have been asked and answered about once a month for the last decade.

Nessism · January 18, 2019

A heat gun works fine with steel. If working with graphite and wanting to re-use the shaft you will need a shaft puller and be careful with how much heat you apply.

A torch puts much less heat into the shaft than a heat gun. Pin point hit instead of spewing hot air all over the head and shaft.

Any person can can glue clubs, but if you want them built to certain specifications you have to go to someone who does it for a living.

Incorrect

Rosco1216 · January 18, 2019

A heat gun works fine with steel. If working with graphite and wanting to re-use the shaft you will need a shaft puller and be careful with how much heat you apply.

A torch puts much less heat into the shaft than a heat gun. Pin point hit instead of spewing hot air all over the head and shaft.

Any person can can glue clubs, but if you want them built to certain specifications you have to go to someone who does it for a living.

Incorrect

Yes I’m aware of the differences. Are you disagreeing that a heat gun does do fine with steel or that you have to be more careful with graphite when using a heat gun?

Nessism · January 18, 2019

Are you disagreeing that a heat gun does do fine with steel or that you have to be more careful with graphite when using a heat gun?

Heat guns are the wrong tool for pulling shafts. One exception is an industrial heat gun with a small funnel tip so the heat can be focused on the hosel

15 seconds of heat from a propane torch is all that's required to break the bond and pull an iron head. The head, other than the hosel, doesn't even get hot. I pull steel shafted iron heads and don't wear a glove.

ChristopherMcDonald · January 18, 2019

I build clubs and have very VERY few items to do so. That being said, I shop for value items (older model clubs/shafts) and use a swingweight estimator. I am not good enough to know the difference so if the club feels good to me swinging it, I will play it.

Tools:

Sand paper/acetone for ferrule turning

Clamp with shaft holder (for graphite to not damage the shaft, from Harbor Freight)

Saw with graphite specific blade (hand saw from Golfworks)

Chopsaw with steel specific blade (from Harbor freight)

Butane torch (from Local Smoke shop)

Grip Solvent (from Golf Works)

Grip Tape (From Golf Works)

Ferrules (From various vendors, always try to find closest OD)

Tip Weights (bought as needed, steel or tungsten/rubber depending on shaft)

Honestly wouldn't attempt to build a high end set without getting a swingweight calculator. With all the information available here, I would say most normal folks could make this happen pretty easily, but not "perfect" without some initial money outlay

Rosco1216 · January 18, 2019

Are you disagreeing that a heat gun does do fine with steel or that you have to be more careful with graphite when using a heat gun?

Heat guns are the wrong tool for pulling shafts. One exception is an industrial heat gun with a small funnel tip so the heat can be focused on the hosel
15 seconds of heat from a propane torch is all that's required to break the bond and pull an iron head. The head, other than the hosel, doesn't even get hot. I pull steel shafted iron heads and don't wear a glove.

They aren’t the best tool but they aren’t the wrong tool either. Obviously torch is easiest but heat gun still works fine for steel. It also works with graphite if you have a puller and are careful.

Birddog2 · January 18, 2019

Club builder.

An experienced builder has the expertise and tools to frequency match, adjust loft/lie, swing-weight etc. Try building, or re-shafting a few irons first to experience what is involved and what you'll need. Enjoy your expensive JDM irons and aspire to build something similar...

PepsiDuck · January 18, 2019

Club builder.

An experienced builder has the expertise and tools to frequency match, adjust loft/lie, swing-weight etc. Try building, or re-shafting a few irons first to experience what is involved and what you'll need. Enjoy your expensive JDM irons and aspire to build something similar...

My builder said the frequency matching was by far the most challenging part of the build. He had to ship shafts back and forth from his supplier multiple times to get it right.

From my perspective, it’d be cool to tool around with an old set of heads to learn on, but probably not for gamers...

Nessism · January 19, 2019

Frequency matching irons is unnecessary for all but the most discriminating players. I'd venture to guess that 99% of all players couldn't begin to notice if a set of irons was following a perfect frequency slope or if the shafts were simply installed straight from the manufacturer. Personally, I've got a frequency meter but rarely use it. And I never even try to use it to create a perfect frequency slope with irons since I'm not good enough of a player to notice.

bulls9999 · January 19, 2019

After a shaft pull, if you still have epoxy still clogging the inside end of a steel shaft, can you dissolve that with solvent to get it cleaned out? Or is epoxy impervious to solvents once it is mixed and dried?

raynorfan1 · January 19, 2019

After a shaft pull, if you still have epoxy still clogging the inside end of a steel shaft, can you dissolve that with solvent to get it cleaned out? Or is epoxy impervious to solvents once it is mixed and dried?

Acetone will soften up the bond between dried epoxy and the shaft, but the best approach is to heat it up a little bit and just scrape it out with a wire brush.

5hort5tuff · January 19, 2019

Drill it out with a small bit. It's super clean and easy.

KMo23 · January 19, 2019

Frequency matching irons is unnecessary for all but the most discriminating players. I'd venture to guess that 99% of all players couldn't begin to notice if a set of irons was following a perfect frequency slope or if the shafts were simply installed straight from the manufacturer. Personally, I've got a frequency meter but rarely use it. And I never even try to use it to create a perfect frequency slope with irons since I'm not good enough of a player to notice.

I know a 10 handicapper who can feel the difference in 1/2 pt in Swingweight and a 15 who can feel the difference in one piece of double sided tape versus two.

What I’ve learned is what someone’s score is doesn’t necessarily matter when it comes to their love of equipment and also performance gains from new equipment.

We all have different experiences, so maybe we should stop posting our opinions as if they’re facts? I know I’m going to start.

Drill it out with a small bit. It's super clean and easy.

Perfect advice. I’d clamp in a vice to ensure you drill straight!

juggernaut0629 · January 19, 2019

My local club builder charges me about 15 buck a club for assembly. I provide the Heads, Shafts , Ferrules and Grips and he builds to my Length and Swing weight.
I re-grip my own clubs as well as replace shafts when needed( Butt trimming and epoxying adapters and heads ) . I purchased a fully restored Kenneth Smith swing weight scale
so I'm pretty analytical when it comes to my equipment and it can drive one crazy if things are off.

I also believe in supporting my local small business and my club builder is a great guy.

Wow, closest guy to me charges $100 per club build whether the components are bought through him or not.

Nessism · January 19, 2019

I know a 10 handicapper who can feel the difference in 1/2 pt in Swingweight.

You'd have to prove that to me.

TheBIIgCat · January 19, 2019

I know a 10 handicapper who can feel the difference in 1/2 pt in Swingweight.

You'd have to prove that to me.

I would like to wager on this, give me plenty of notice so I can save up, because there is zero chance of this being true.

KMo23 · January 20, 2019

I know a 10 handicapper who can feel the difference in 1/2 pt in Swingweight.

You'd have to prove that to me.
I would like to wager on this, give me plenty of notice so I can save up, because there is zero chance of this being true.

I don’t even know why I post on this place anymore... everyone seems to think they know more than me. I’ve only been building, fitting, and selling clubs for almost 20 years and am a PGA Professional (not that that means much anymore). I’m sorry you guys don’t believe me, but this is from actual experience. Unlike you guys who read this stuff on the internet and become experts, I live this every day. I’m done posting on here. It’s a waste of my time.

sui generis · January 20, 2019

I know a 10 handicapper who can feel the difference in 1/2 pt in Swingweight.

You'd have to prove that to me.
I would like to wager on this, give me plenty of notice so I can save up, because there is zero chance of this being true.

I don't even know why I post on this place anymore... everyone seems to think they know more than me. I've only been building, fitting, and selling clubs for almost 20 years and am a PGA Professional (not that that means much anymore). I'm sorry you guys don't believe me, but this is from actual experience. Unlike you guys who read this stuff on the internet and become experts, I live this every day. I'm done posting on here. It's a waste of my time.

You've been here for the internet equivalent of five minutes, it's not as if anyone will miss you. You bring to mind another guy who's played golf for four years and laments the demise of steel spikes. :swoon:

ChronicSlicer · January 20, 2019

Saw with graphite specific blade (hand saw from Golfworks)

How is it designed for graphite only?

ChronicSlicer · January 20, 2019

Every time I read these types of thread I think that most of the guys who are inquiring are not very handy.

Amen, unless "handy" nowadays refers to typing on a keyboard.

Matt J · January 20, 2019

Frequency matching irons is unnecessary for all but the most discriminating players. I'd venture to guess that 99% of all players couldn't begin to notice if a set of irons was following a perfect frequency slope or if the shafts were simply installed straight from the manufacturer. Personally, I've got a frequency meter but rarely use it. And I never even try to use it to create a perfect frequency slope with irons since I'm not good enough of a player to notice.
I know a 10 handicapper who can feel the difference in 1/2 pt in Swingweight and a 15 who can feel the difference in one piece of double sided tape versus two.
What I've learned is what someone's score is doesn't necessarily matter when it comes to their love of equipment and also performance gains from new equipment.
We all have different experiences, so maybe we should stop posting our opinions as if they're facts? I know I'm going to start.

Drill it out with a small bit. It's super clean and easy.
Perfect advice. I'd clamp in a vice to ensure you drill straight!

I recently had a friend who is a club fitter frequency test the shafts in three sets of irons that I do play or have played in the last couple of years.

Each set had one shaft that was an outlier that should not have been built into the set. There were other places where there were relatively bigger or smaller gaps in the frequency between clubs, but there was one club in each of the three sets that was nearly the same frequency of the club above or below it. If asked before the build which club I got along with least in the set it would have been that club. All three times. Believe it or not, it's of no matter to me, as it convinced me to build based off of frequency.

I would say it takes several grams of weight in the head, all things being the same, for me to notice. The double sided tape I used to use was quite thick. I used the tap straight on the shaft for awhile and then added a piece over the original piece and played them and I think anyone would pick the second up and identify it as thicker than the first. 2 pieces felt nearly like a mid-size. Using plain old painters tape now that I blow grips on and I don't think you would tell a difference between 1 and 2, although 3 or 4 would be noticeable to most.

On some level it irks me how willing to argue many of you are... why would you discourage someone from posting because their experience differs from yours? Because you want to be the ultimate source of information on club building on GolfWRX? Really? Some thing simply are not absolute. The reason many of us go down the club building path is to find out for ourselves what the significance of difference tolerances in different areas of clubs may be.

Nessism · January 20, 2019

I know a 10 handicapper who can feel the difference in 1/2 pt in Swingweight.

You'd have to prove that to me.
I would like to wager on this, give me plenty of notice so I can save up, because there is zero chance of this being true.

I don't even know why I post on this place anymore... everyone seems to think they know more than me. I've only been building, fitting, and selling clubs for almost 20 years and am a PGA Professional (not that that means much anymore). I'm sorry you guys don't believe me, but this is from actual experience. Unlike you guys who read this stuff on the internet and become experts, I live this every day. I'm done posting on here. It's a waste of my time.

I just did an experiment and it took 1.5 grams of head weight to move my G25 7 iron 1/2 of a swingweight point. It would take an extraordinarily sensitive player to notice 1/2 a swingweight point, and in fact, OEM's don't even build that accurately.

And I'm not doubting that you saw a 10 capper before that said a club felt light/heavy and after weighting it the swingweight was indeed off. What I'd like to see though is some more testing on this guy: mock up 10 clubs of various swingweights and then test his ability to pick out which ones are heavy and light. That would be a true test. If he could pick out say 4 of 5 that would be nothing short of amazing.