Cage Match to the DEATH: LPGA Tour vs. Middle-aged Scratch and Below

[bill.ig]

I’ve been lurking on this thread since its origin and am very impressed with much of the ciphering on it. However, I am most impressed with Obee posting 40+ tournament rounds in a year. Well done!

[isaacbm]

I’ve been following this thread since the beginning and the only thing that I can say for certain is that I should be given a medal for staying out of it!

 

Carry on

[DavePelz4]

I’ve been following this thread since the beginning and the only thing that I can say for certain is that I should be given a medal for staying out of it!

 

Carry on

 

Hmmm...as someone who could legitimately answer this question and has the pedigree to support it, your input would be so valuable.

[isaacbm]

I’ve been following this thread since the beginning and the only thing that I can say for certain is that I should be given a medal for staying out of it!

 

Carry on

 

Hmmm...as someone who could legitimately answer this question and has the pedigree to support it, your input would be so valuable.

I’ll just say that I generally side with Obee in these threads... though I do feel that the difference between a scratch ( even an established tourney scratch) and a multi year tour pro is a little bigger than he does. I’d say it’s easier to get from 7 to scratch then it is to get from scratch to +2. Sounds easy to say :”it’s only a shot here or there...” but those shots seem hard to find when you actually go looking.

 

I’m looking forward to results. Wish there was more then just one day to go from though.

 

And now I lose my medal for staying out of this one! Lol!

[AC168]

I had an interesting period of my life where I played rounds with LPGA tour pros and rising college stars who were soon to turn pro. I joined a club and one of my sponsors (people who would vouch for me) was a sponsor (financial, any type of help) to many LPGA tour players. In one of my early rounds with him and an LPGA pro, he realized that the pros liked to play with me, so he often asked to chaperone one of the players he sponsored. When US Open qualifying was held on our course, he sent a few LPGA players also.

 

This was about 10 years ago and I was in my late 30s and about a 0-handicap who swung about 105 mph with the driver. We usually played from the furthest back or next to the furthest back tees at a pretty challenging course. Scratch players from neighboring clubs would sometimes not break 80 from the back tees. Lots of water and super deep bunkers on the course, decent sized fairways with trouble around, and medium to large greens again with lots of trouble around. At any rate, here are my recollections:

 

1) I was longer off the tee (sometimes by a lot) but the top lady drivers were better drivers -- meaning I may average 275 and be somewhat crooked, but they seemed to be able to drive the ball 250-270 and nearly dead straight or have their ball wind-up on a narrow fairway almost all the time.

 

2) I was hitting shorter irons into greens, but I wasn't any closer to the hole on average. They rarely missed greens inside 180 yards. I would spray some and miss-often from 170 and over.

 

3) I was a pretty good pitcher and chipper -- probably 10%-ile relative to the PGA tour back then. The ladies were more consistent at the normal pitches and chips. I was better at the specialty, high-spin shots, but on average, the ladies could get it closer to the hole than I could.

 

4) I was an excellent putter back then -- probably 40%-ile relative to the PGA tour back then. I putted better from 5-10 feet by a little, but their lags were much tighter to the hole than me.

 

Handicaps are a blunt instrument trying to do something very difficult. Also, courses are very different and can produce very different results for similar people. Based on my experiences, I would say a competitive generalized scratch-handicap mid-aged male who can drive around 270-275 yards should be able to compete with and probably score lower 50% plus of the time versus an average LPGA player for courses around 7,000 or longer. I would guess, again overly generalized, but on a shorter, tight course around 6,400 the LPGA player would come out ahead more often.

 

Again, over-generalizing, I would say the driving yardage differential needed is around 20-25 yards between the scratch player and the LPGA player to get scores relatively close -- meaning the scratch male would need to be around 20-25 yards longer to make-up for his deficiencies versus the LPGA palyer's game.

 

I would also think the LPGA player would have a much tighter distribution of scores. The tricky part is that the 4th round of a pro tournament is very different from the 3rd round which is very different from the 2nd round which is very different from the 2nd round when you are on the cut line which is very different from the 2nd round when you are way above or below the cut line, etc.

 

I don't think it's useful to look at all the scores of the LPGA tournament, especially those where someone isn't making the cut. If you are 5 shots from making the cut with 9 holes to go, you might be treating the last 9 holes as experiment time or trying to find something time rather than just playing your best. Because of the way money is paid-out, the leaders also play differently, i.e. if the 2nd place person is 3 strokes ahead of the 3rd place person versus 1 stroke, that influences decisions.

 

Sometimes, there are bigger items to prepare for. My golf instructor told me that one of his former pupils, major winner, after the PGA Championship, would practice hitting 3-wood draws in the middle of real tournaments after the PGA even when the hole didn't need it, just to get ready for the 13th at Augusta for the Masters. He would do this unless he was close to winning the tournament at hand -- when not in contention, it was all practice for Augusta.

[DavePelz4]

I’ve been following this thread since the beginning and the only thing that I can say for certain is that I should be given a medal for staying out of it!

 

Carry on

 

Hmmm...as someone who could legitimately answer this question and has the pedigree to support it, your input would be so valuable.

I’ll just say that I generally side with Obee in these threads... though I do feel that the difference between a scratch ( even an established tourney scratch) and a multi year tour pro is a little bigger than he does. I’d say it’s easier to get from 7 to scratch then it is to get from scratch to +2. Sounds easy to say :”it’s only a shot here or there...” but those shots seem hard to find when you actually go looking.

 

I’m looking forward to results. Wish there was more then just one day to go from though.

 

And now I lose my medal for staying out of this one! Lol!

 

I appreciate the input and equally am looking forward to the outcome.

[Hawkeye77]

I'm looking forward to the pics - not of middle aged scratch guys.

[deadsolid...shank]

Just spitballing here, but I would guess the scratch would take maybe 3 out of 10rounds. That's about how often I straight up beat a person who is a couple strokes lower on handicap. Again, so so much depends on the type of scratch. The one who establishes his scratch cap slapping it around with his buddies, taking liberal gimmies and is maybe a little loose with the rules, he maybe doesn't win any. The one who plays a lot of legimate, competitive rounds I thinks fares ok (he's the 3 out of 10guy).

 

I'm not sure I follow: the men's scratch is 2 strokes better than the 150th ranked LPGA pro according to Argonne's analysis (i.e., she's a 2, not a +2). You don't believe that handicaps are valid and therefore you'd prefer the 2 over a scratch player? or that this comparison doesn't work?

 

Good point Dhc, apparently I didn’t take the time to read (or at least comprehend) the question very well. I did have the two reversed in my head thinking +2 as opposed to a normal two.

 

I think the tournament scratch (like Obee) is probably about a split. Mainly since the ladies handicap is comprised of all tournament rounds, and the scratch, even the tournament tested ones, will probably have some casual rounds factored in. Plus, since the scratch cap is determined from the 10 best, it leaves the other end of the scoring range completely open. I think over a long series of rounds these two competitors come out fairly close.

[1puttTUT]

I don't get these threads. Since it seems to me it comes down to a perception of how distance affects score, I looked at numbers.

 

This year, the LPGA top average distance is 283. The median LPGA Pro average distance is 256. The first time the top average driving distance crested 280 on the PGA Tour was 1986, with Davis Love III at 285. Larry Nelson represented the median average at 261.

 

If distance is the central issue to these arguments, the opposite argument can be made by saying, "Do you think a scratch male golfer can beat a male PGA Pro from 1986?" I think most of us would call BS on that, so why do we still entertain the notion that a scratch male could beat an LPGA Tour pro?

 

Doesn't it depend on the length of the golf course?

 

I'll take the LPGA player on a 6,500 yard course.

 

But if you put her on a 7,500 yard course against a male "scratch" who legitimately hits his driver 300 and therefore his irons long and high, then the argument changes.

 

It's quite an assumption that the middle aged male scratch is a legitimate 300 hitter. I'd guess that less than half actually are. There are alot of other ways to be a scratch golfer than bombing your tee shots, although it certainly helps lol.

[deadsolid...shank]

I’ve been following this thread since the beginning and the only thing that I can say for certain is that I should be given a medal for staying out of it!

 

Carry on

 

Coward!!

[deadsolid...shank]

I’ve been lurking on this thread since its origin and am very impressed with much of the ciphering on it. However, I am most impressed with Obee posting 40+ tournament rounds in a year. Well done!

 

I think that is still the biggest factor. How that scratch cap was accomplished.

 

We’ve heard a lot of talk about the difference between casual rounds and tournament rounds “the playing for the mortgage or to put bread on the table” pressure.

 

Well what about the pressure of an amateur round, for money, that includes Rickie Fowler and Phil Mickelson.

 

Not all scratch caps are the results of “sh!ts and giggles” rounds at the club with your buddies. Some of them are on difficult courses with a lot on the line.

[dhc1]

Just spitballing here, but I would guess the scratch would take maybe 3 out of 10rounds. That's about how often I straight up beat a person who is a couple strokes lower on handicap. Again, so so much depends on the type of scratch. The one who establishes his scratch cap slapping it around with his buddies, taking liberal gimmies and is maybe a little loose with the rules, he maybe doesn't win any. The one who plays a lot of legimate, competitive rounds I thinks fares ok (he's the 3 out of 10guy).

 

I'm not sure I follow: the men's scratch is 2 strokes better than the 150th ranked LPGA pro according to Argonne's analysis (i.e., she's a 2, not a +2). You don't believe that handicaps are valid and therefore you'd prefer the 2 over a scratch player? or that this comparison doesn't work?

 

Good point Dhc, apparently I didn’t take the time to read (or at least comprehend) the question very well. I did have the two reversed in my head thinking +2 as opposed to a normal two.

 

I think the tournament scratch (like Obee) is probably about a split. Mainly since the ladies handicap is comprised of all tournament rounds, and the scratch, even the tournament tested ones, will probably have some casual rounds factored in. Plus, since the scratch cap is determined from the 10 best, it leaves the other end of the scoring range completely open. I think over a long series of rounds these two competitors come out fairly close.

 

I think this is more than fair. Quite frankly, I'm really surprised at how high the 1.9 calculated index is for the 150th ranked lady. A "real" scratch or maybe a 1 seems right to me for the LPGA low end.

[straightshot7]

I don't get these threads. Since it seems to me it comes down to a perception of how distance affects score, I looked at numbers.

 

This year, the LPGA top average distance is 283. The median LPGA Pro average distance is 256. The first time the top average driving distance crested 280 on the PGA Tour was 1986, with Davis Love III at 285. Larry Nelson represented the median average at 261.

 

If distance is the central issue to these arguments, the opposite argument can be made by saying, "Do you think a scratch male golfer can beat a male PGA Pro from 1986?" I think most of us would call BS on that, so why do we still entertain the notion that a scratch male could beat an LPGA Tour pro?

 

Doesn't it depend on the length of the golf course?

 

I'll take the LPGA player on a 6,500 yard course.

 

But if you put her on a 7,500 yard course against a male "scratch" who legitimately hits his driver 300 and therefore his irons long and high, then the argument changes.

 

It's quite an assumption that the middle aged male scratch is a legitimate 300 hitter. I'd guess that less than half actually are. There are alot of other ways to be a scratch golfer than bombing your tee shots, although it certainly helps lol.

 

You're right. I wasn't describing the entire group. I was only referring to the segment of scratches that does hit the ball 300.

 

What does the average middle aged scratch hit it? 275 off the tee (260 carry)? That's still a significant advantage over the average LPGA player (who only carries her driver 218 yards according Trackman in 2017).

 

So all I am saying is that course length is a significant factor in this conversation.

 

If the two play a 475 yard par 4 the male scratch's distance gains value.

 

If they play a 400 yard par 4 it completely diminishes and the LPGA Tour player has the advantage because I'm guessing her skill level and accuracy is better.

[Argonne69]

Please keep in mind that these calculations are based on the men's ratings. The actual index of the 150th ranked player would be approximately +4.

 

 

[straightshot7]

Well we are getting to see the answer to our question right now: Annika Sorenstam and Jack Nicklaus (and Gary Player) are playing in the same group at the Insperity Invitational right now.

 

I'm being sarcastic but Annika looks like she could still be playing on tour.

[1puttTUT]

I don't get these threads. Since it seems to me it comes down to a perception of how distance affects score, I looked at numbers.

 

This year, the LPGA top average distance is 283. The median LPGA Pro average distance is 256. The first time the top average driving distance crested 280 on the PGA Tour was 1986, with Davis Love III at 285. Larry Nelson represented the median average at 261.

 

If distance is the central issue to these arguments, the opposite argument can be made by saying, "Do you think a scratch male golfer can beat a male PGA Pro from 1986?" I think most of us would call BS on that, so why do we still entertain the notion that a scratch male could beat an LPGA Tour pro?

 

Doesn't it depend on the length of the golf course?

 

I'll take the LPGA player on a 6,500 yard course.

 

But if you put her on a 7,500 yard course against a male "scratch" who legitimately hits his driver 300 and therefore his irons long and high, then the argument changes.

 

It's quite an assumption that the middle aged male scratch is a legitimate 300 hitter. I'd guess that less than half actually are. There are alot of other ways to be a scratch golfer than bombing your tee shots, although it certainly helps lol.

 

You're right. I wasn't describing the entire group. I was only referring to the segment of scratches that does hit the ball 300.

 

What does the average middle aged scratch hit it? 275 off the tee (260 carry)? That's still a significant advantage over the average LPGA player (who only carries her driver 218 yards according Trackman in 2017).

 

So all I am saying is that course length is a significant factor in this conversation.

 

If the two play a 475 yard par 4 the male scratch's distance gains value.

 

If they play a 400 yard par 4 it completely diminishes and the LPGA Tour player has the advantage because I'm guessing her skill level and accuracy is better.

 

I'm not really sure what the average is. It probably depends on what part of "middle aged" they reside in, 40-45 years old vs 55-60 makes a big difference I would presume. I've only played with a few scratch golfers and I always outdrove them (I'm 38 and average ~285). They were all about 15 years older than me and made me look like a clown when it came to irons/short game/putting.

[wrmiller]

I've never been a scratch player, but a long time ago I played/practiced with a young lady named Brandie before she turned pro. I was a 2 at the time.

 

One Saturday, we had just finished a round when her coach came up and asked us if we wanted to go again. Some 'friends' of hers were in town and wanted to get in a little golf. Brandie and I looked at each other and said 'sure, why not?'. We were walking out to the 10th tee (started on the back), and I'm checking out these two ladies without trying to be too obvious about it. Something didn't seem right...

 

We all played from the back tees, and I out drove everyone by a bit, but I was the only one who missed the fairway. Hmmm.

 

Long story shorter, these ladies were absolutely deadly from about 160 and in. And I started trying to get serious. But it didn't help. I shot just under par IIRC, but it wasn't even close. On the last hole I had a slightly uphill, left-to-right putt for birdie. About 10' or so. Missed it for yet another kick-in par. One of the ladies made the comment that if I could putt I'd be a plus two. But then putting has always been my problem. :)

 

Turns out the ladies were LPGA pros in town for the Dinah Shore. I picked up my ego off the ground, wadded it up and stuffed it in my back pocket. But it was a fun round. :D

[DavePelz4]

I've never been a scratch player, but a long time ago I played/practiced with a young lady named Brandy before she turned pro. I was a 2 at the time.

 

One Saturday, we had just finished a round when her coach came up and asked us if we wanted to go again. Some 'friends' of hers were in town and wanted to get in a little golf. Brandie and I looked at each other and said 'sure, why not?'. We were walking out to the 10th tee (started on the back), and I'm checking out these two ladies without trying to be too obvious about it. Something didn't seem right...

 

We all played from the back tees, and I out drove everyone by a bit, but I was the only one who missed the fairway. Hmmm.

 

Long story shorter, these ladies were absolutely deadly from about 160 and in. And I started trying to get serious. But it didn't help. I shot just under par IIRC, but it wasn't even close. On the last hole I had a slightly uphill, left-to-right putt for birdie. About 10' or so. Missed it for yet another kick-in par. One of the ladies made the comment that if I could putt I'd be a plus two. But then putting has always been my problem. :)

 

Turns out the ladies were LPGA pros in town for the Dinah Shore. I picked up my ego off the ground, wadded it up and stuffed it in my back pocket. But it was a fun round. :D

 

Brandie Burton?

[wrmiller]

Yes Sir. I didn't think anyone would figure that one out. :)

 

Oh, and sorry Brandie for misspelling your name. It has been a long time, but that's no excuse.

[DavePelz4]

Yes Sir. I didn't think anyone would figure that one out. :)

 

Oh, and sorry Brandie for misspelling your name. It has been a long time, but that's not excuse.

 

Showing my age here...she had a nice career...think she won a few times on the LPGA and seemed to be a regular on leaderboards for a few years there.

[wrmiller]

Yes Sir. I didn't think anyone would figure that one out. :)

 

Oh, and sorry Brandie for misspelling your name. It has been a long time, but that's not excuse.

 

Showing my age here...she had a nice career...think she won a few times on the LPGA and seemed to be a regular on leaderboards for a few years there.

 

Yea, she started out really strong, setting a record or two her freshman year on tour, but I heard she had medical/physical issues later on. We were never great friends, and we lost contact after she turned pro, but we used to stand on the range at Waterman in San Bernardino and pound balls up a service road to the left of the nets for hours. Drove the boys picking up the balls nuts. ;)

 

Her coach Cheryl Thomas was the only pro I took lessons from. I stopped (taking lessons) when she said she couldn't help me anymore and that what I needed was to play/practice more. At that time, I played 36 on Saturday, then 36 on Sunday and that was all I could do for playing time.

 

Unfortunately, I had to work for a living, so that put a stop to my aspirations of ever playing in the US Mid-Am. :)

[denvergolf]

My only take on this would be the advantage the men will have is they don't have to play their foul balls. Having a partner is a big help.

 

But it will be interesting to see the results.

 

On the final day, it is aggregate. Meaning you have to play your ball all the way in. Add up your partner's total score and your total score.

 

Real golf. :-)

sorry Obee, but that's real amatuer golf.

 

put your dudes on the same golf course playing for prize money that covers all the bills for the week, makes another mortgage payment, and puts a gallon of milk in the fridge and then we got a conversation.

 

Please...LPGA Tour players on average are not playing for basic needs. 100th on the money list made $98k last year not including endorsements and anything their spouse brings in.

in response I have zero idea what that point/statement is, really, I don't.

 

mine is that the LPGA players performance (make that their "peak" performance) is always mandatory, it's their job, it's not optional.

 

amatuers playing amatuer golf have no real skin in the game, they don't give out their Social Security # when they tee it up, a good/bad week has zero impact on their actual lives.

 

the difference (pressure) between a prize money and an Am event is enormous.

Totally agree. Not to mention $98K, less expenses and taxes isn't exactly killing it...

[Obee]

I had an interesting period of my life where I played rounds with LPGA tour pros and rising college stars who were soon to turn pro. I joined a club and one of my sponsors (people who would vouch for me) was a sponsor (financial, any type of help) to many LPGA tour players. In one of my early rounds with him and an LPGA pro, he realized that the pros liked to play with me, so he often asked to chaperone one of the players he sponsored. When US Open qualifying was held on our course, he sent a few LPGA players also.

 

This was about 10 years ago and I was in my late 30s and about a 0-handicap who swung about 105 mph with the driver. We usually played from the furthest back or next to the furthest back tees at a pretty challenging course. Scratch players from neighboring clubs would sometimes not break 80 from the back tees. Lots of water and super deep bunkers on the course, decent sized fairways with trouble around, and medium to large greens again with lots of trouble around. At any rate, here are my recollections:

 

1) I was longer off the tee (sometimes by a lot) but the top lady drivers were better drivers -- meaning I may average 275 and be somewhat crooked, but they seemed to be able to drive the ball 250-270 and nearly dead straight or have their ball wind-up on a narrow fairway almost all the time.

 

2) I was hitting shorter irons into greens, but I wasn't any closer to the hole on average. They rarely missed greens inside 180 yards. I would spray some and miss-often from 170 and over.

 

3) I was a pretty good pitcher and chipper -- probably 10%-ile relative to the PGA tour back then. The ladies were more consistent at the normal pitches and chips. I was better at the specialty, high-spin shots, but on average, the ladies could get it closer to the hole than I could.

 

4) I was an excellent putter back then -- probably 40%-ile relative to the PGA tour back then. I putted better from 5-10 feet by a little, but their lags were much tighter to the hole than me.

 

Handicaps are a blunt instrument trying to do something very difficult. Also, courses are very different and can produce very different results for similar people. Based on my experiences, I would say a competitive generalized scratch-handicap mid-aged male who can drive around 270-275 yards should be able to compete with and probably score lower 50% plus of the time versus an average LPGA player for courses around 7,000 or longer. I would guess, again overly generalized, but on a shorter, tight course around 6,400 the LPGA player would come out ahead more often.

 

Again, over-generalizing, I would say the driving yardage differential needed is around 20-25 yards between the scratch player and the LPGA player to get scores relatively close -- meaning the scratch male would need to be around 20-25 yards longer to make-up for his deficiencies versus the LPGA palyer's game.

 

I would also think the LPGA player would have a much tighter distribution of scores. The tricky part is that the 4th round of a pro tournament is very different from the 3rd round which is very different from the 2nd round which is very different from the 2nd round when you are on the cut line which is very different from the 2nd round when you are way above or below the cut line, etc.

 

I don't think it's useful to look at all the scores of the LPGA tournament, especially those where someone isn't making the cut. If you are 5 shots from making the cut with 9 holes to go, you might be treating the last 9 holes as experiment time or trying to find something time rather than just playing your best. Because of the way money is paid-out, the leaders also play differently, i.e. if the 2nd place person is 3 strokes ahead of the 3rd place person versus 1 stroke, that influences decisions.

 

Sometimes, there are bigger items to prepare for. My golf instructor told me that one of his former pupils, major winner, after the PGA Championship, would practice hitting 3-wood draws in the middle of real tournaments after the PGA even when the hole didn't need it, just to get ready for the 13th at Augusta for the Masters. He would do this unless he was close to winning the tournament at hand -- when not in contention, it was all practice for Augusta.

 

Love this! Thank you for the thoughtful and insightful reply. I agree with literally every point you made here. :-)

 

I had an interesting period of my life where I played rounds with LPGA tour pros and rising college stars who were soon to turn pro. I joined a club and one of my sponsors (people who would vouch for me) was a sponsor (financial, any type of help) to many LPGA tour players. In one of my early rounds with him and an LPGA pro, he realized that the pros liked to play with me, so he often asked to chaperone one of the players he sponsored. When US Open qualifying was held on our course, he sent a few LPGA players also.

 

This was about 10 years ago and I was in my late 30s and about a 0-handicap who swung about 105 mph with the driver. We usually played from the furthest back or next to the furthest back tees at a pretty challenging course. Scratch players from neighboring clubs would sometimes not break 80 from the back tees. Lots of water and super deep bunkers on the course, decent sized fairways with trouble around, and medium to large greens again with lots of trouble around. At any rate, here are my recollections:

 

1) I was longer off the tee (sometimes by a lot) but the top lady drivers were better drivers -- meaning I may average 275 and be somewhat crooked, but they seemed to be able to drive the ball 250-270 and nearly dead straight or have their ball wind-up on a narrow fairway almost all the time.

 

2) I was hitting shorter irons into greens, but I wasn't any closer to the hole on average. They rarely missed greens inside 180 yards. I would spray some and miss-often from 170 and over.

 

3) I was a pretty good pitcher and chipper -- probably 10%-ile relative to the PGA tour back then. The ladies were more consistent at the normal pitches and chips. I was better at the specialty, high-spin shots, but on average, the ladies could get it closer to the hole than I could.

 

4) I was an excellent putter back then -- probably 40%-ile relative to the PGA tour back then. I putted better from 5-10 feet by a little, but their lags were much tighter to the hole than me.

 

Handicaps are a blunt instrument trying to do something very difficult. Also, courses are very different and can produce very different results for similar people. Based on my experiences, I would say a competitive generalized scratch-handicap mid-aged male who can drive around 270-275 yards should be able to compete with and probably score lower 50% plus of the time versus an average LPGA player for courses around 7,000 or longer. I would guess, again overly generalized, but on a shorter, tight course around 6,400 the LPGA player would come out ahead more often.

 

Again, over-generalizing, I would say the driving yardage differential needed is around 20-25 yards between the scratch player and the LPGA player to get scores relatively close -- meaning the scratch male would need to be around 20-25 yards longer to make-up for his deficiencies versus the LPGA palyer's game.

 

I would also think the LPGA player would have a much tighter distribution of scores. The tricky part is that the 4th round of a pro tournament is very different from the 3rd round which is very different from the 2nd round which is very different from the 2nd round when you are on the cut line which is very different from the 2nd round when you are way above or below the cut line, etc.

 

I don't think it's useful to look at all the scores of the LPGA tournament, especially those where someone isn't making the cut. If you are 5 shots from making the cut with 9 holes to go, you might be treating the last 9 holes as experiment time or trying to find something time rather than just playing your best. Because of the way money is paid-out, the leaders also play differently, i.e. if the 2nd place person is 3 strokes ahead of the 3rd place person versus 1 stroke, that influences decisions.

 

Sometimes, there are bigger items to prepare for. My golf instructor told me that one of his former pupils, major winner, after the PGA Championship, would practice hitting 3-wood draws in the middle of real tournaments after the PGA even when the hole didn't need it, just to get ready for the 13th at Augusta for the Masters. He would do this unless he was close to winning the tournament at hand -- when not in contention, it was all practice for Augusta.

 

Love this! Thank you for the thoughtful and insightful reply. I agree with literally every point you made here. :-)

[Obee]

Yes Sir. I didn't think anyone would figure that one out. :)

 

Oh, and sorry Brandie for misspelling your name. It has been a long time, but that's not excuse.

 

Showing my age here...she had a nice career...think she won a few times on the LPGA and seemed to be a regular on leaderboards for a few years there.

 

Yea, she started out really strong, setting a record or two her freshman year on tour, but I heard she had medical/physical issues later on. We were never great friends, and we lost contact after she turned pro, but we used to stand on the range at Waterman in San Bernardino and pound balls up a service road to the left of the nets for hours. Drove the boys picking up the balls nuts. ;)

 

Her coach Cheryl Thomas was the only pro I took lessons from. I stopped (taking lessons) when she said she couldn't help me anymore and that what I needed was to play/practice more. At that time, I played 36 on Saturday, then 36 on Sunday and that was all I could do for playing time.

 

Unfortunately, I had to work for a living, so that put a stop to my aspirations of ever playing in the US Mid-Am. :)

 

I'm an Inland Empire boy myself! Played Waterman many, many times. Also used to play with Brandie and her brother Troy in the skins game at the old Palm Meadows course at Norton Air Force Base. At certain times of the year, those greens were absolutely fantastic. At certain times of the year, those greens were absolutely fantastic.

 

I was a member at Canyon Crest for years, but I am now down at Bear Creek. You still playing?

 

Yes Sir. I didn't think anyone would figure that one out. :)

 

Oh, and sorry Brandie for misspelling your name. It has been a long time, but that's not excuse.

 

Showing my age here...she had a nice career...think she won a few times on the LPGA and seemed to be a regular on leaderboards for a few years there.

 

Yea, she started out really strong, setting a record or two her freshman year on tour, but I heard she had medical/physical issues later on. We were never great friends, and we lost contact after she turned pro, but we used to stand on the range at Waterman in San Bernardino and pound balls up a service road to the left of the nets for hours. Drove the boys picking up the balls nuts. ;)

 

Her coach Cheryl Thomas was the only pro I took lessons from. I stopped (taking lessons) when she said she couldn't help me anymore and that what I needed was to play/practice more. At that time, I played 36 on Saturday, then 36 on Sunday and that was all I could do for playing time.

 

Unfortunately, I had to work for a living, so that put a stop to my aspirations of ever playing in the US Mid-Am. :)

 

I'm an Inland Empire boy myself! Played Waterman many, many times. Also used to play with Brandie and her brother Troy in the skins game at the old Palm Meadows course at Norton Air Force Base. At certain times of the year, those greens were absolutely fantastic. At certain times of the year, those greens were absolutely fantastic.

 

I was a member at Canyon Crest for years, but I am now down at Bear Creek. You still playing?

[wrmiller]

I'm trying to make a comeback as we speak. :)

 

I was away from the game for a few years, but it looks like I'll be able to play once a week or so at the local semi-private. My game isn't what it used to be (who's is?), but at least I can still swing a club. Played my first 18 last week at the new course and shot 81. It wasn't pretty. ;)

[JL1]

This seems disrespectful to LPGA players. I am a middle aged (35) scratch golfer and I’m absolutely positive I would get my Word not allowed handed to me by an LPGA tour player. I happen to play the same course here in Phoenix they played a couple months ago on a semi regular basis. Granted, I play it from the tips, but they absolutely tear that place apart and I’ve never broken par there that I can recall. I wouldn’t want any part of that match.

 

A round on the house for this honest man.

[jt2gt]

This seems disrespectful to LPGA players. I am a middle aged (35) scratch golfer and I’m absolutely positive I would get my Word not allowed handed to me by an LPGA tour player. I happen to play the same course here in Phoenix they played a couple months ago on a semi regular basis. Granted, I play it from the tips, but they absolutely tear that place apart and I’ve never broken par there that I can recall. I wouldn’t want any part of that match.

 

 

Of course the top LPGA players would crush you, that's easy and I believe of no debate in this thread. The real question is -- the last lady on the leaderboard at the tourney in Phoenix went 79-76, could you shoot that (or close)?

[Texas1]

Didn’t 2 ladies teams in the golf sixes tournament kick some male a**!!

 

These girls are pretty darn good and probably nearer to men than most professional sport. Their putting and short games are incredible, not to mention they have that old man ability to hit every bloody fairway lol

[Shilgy]

Didn’t 2 ladies teams in the golf sixes tournament kick some male a**!!

 

These girls are pretty darn good and probably nearer to men than most professional sport. Their putting and short games are incredible, not to mention they have that old man ability to hit every bloody fairway lol

Great point! Time for the next thread..."could a middle aged scratch beat the bottom guy after two rounds of a PGA Tour event?".

 

To be clear... Or not depending on your point of view. Doesn't the very fact that the majority of posts in this thread are hanging their hat on the idea that a scratch could maybe sometimes perhaps beat the last place finisher in a women's event defeat the purpose of the thread? **

 

** Oops, it's not even the last place finish. It's the worst player in the event after two rounds that missed the cut. Likely does not even have her card. Same as the player that is last on your this year to date. Their are probably extenuating circumstances creating the poor record. Injury or personal issues come to mind. Much like a situation with Bowditch or Kaufman on the men's tour.

 

Frankly y'all remind me of a golf buddy of mine. He hits it maybe 240 off the tee. But will absolutely vow that no women can drive it longer than him.

[Sean2]

I found the thread asking whether a 4HI could beat an LPGA Tour player...amusing.