Cage Match to the DEATH: LPGA Tour vs. Middle-aged Scratch and Below

[dhc1]

Using the men's rating, or the woman's rating? The last time I looked they are women, and their rating from the blue tees (6265 yards) is 77.1. They played from 6450 yards, or a combo of Macbeth/Green. The rating is ~78.2.

 

The scoring average for the 150th ranked LPGA player is 75.67. She's approximately a +5. The median player is ~+8.

 

'Not sure why folks insist on calculating women's indexes using the men's ratings.

 

'Tis a mystery.

 

I've yet to meet an actual honest, traveling scratch who thinks they're as good as an LPGA tour player. It's always the vanity caps, or the 5s or 8s who think they're only a few missed putts away from being a scratch, ergo they're only a few missed putts away from beating an LPGA tour player. To a true scratch golfer who plays competitively and has seen even one LPGA tour event in person.....well let's just say it's just incredibly obvious to him that there's a massive gulf between what he can do on the course and what an LPGA tour player can do on the course.

 

I see you've moved away from any math. Good call despite all your unprecedented knowledge about how handicaps are calculated.

 

Let's see how obee's tourney goes and we can debate what the rating differential is due to the shorter par 5....

 

Whatever man. You're the one who keeps getting the math wrong and misunderstanding how handicaps work, so I don't know what to tell you there.

 

A woman who can play to a +5 or better wipes the floor with a man who's a 0 all day everyday and twice on Sundays. I've seen it, and it isn't close. At all.

 

LOL - as long as you stay away from math and actual handicapping, you are free to say things like "I've seen it, and it isn't close. At all." Alternatively, you could answer the question as to what men's handicap the women's +5 is equal to.

 

FYI - At Wilshire, the mens' rating from the White tees is 70.5 and for the women from the exact same set of tees is 77.6 so a difference there of 7.1 strokes with the exact same score. This gap is very consistent across all rated courses so there's an implied stroke differential between scratch golfers of different sexes.

[ThinkingPlus]

Using the men's rating, or the woman's rating? The last time I looked they are women, and their rating from the blue tees (6265 yards) is 77.1. They played from 6450 yards, or a combo of Macbeth/Green. The rating is ~78.2.

 

The scoring average for the 150th ranked LPGA player is 75.67. She's approximately a +5. The median player is ~+8.

 

'Not sure why folks insist on calculating women's indexes using the men's ratings.

 

'Tis a mystery.

 

I've yet to meet an actual honest, traveling scratch who thinks they're as good as an LPGA tour player. It's always the vanity caps, or the 5s or 8s who think they're only a few missed putts away from being a scratch, ergo they're only a few missed putts away from beating an LPGA tour player. To a true scratch golfer who plays competitively and has seen even one LPGA tour event in person.....well let's just say it's just incredibly obvious to him that there's a massive gulf between what he can do on the course and what an LPGA tour player can do on the course.

 

I see you've moved away from any math. Good call despite all your unprecedented knowledge about how handicaps are calculated.

 

Let's see how obee's tourney goes and we can debate what the rating differential is due to the shorter par 5....

 

Whatever man. You're the one who keeps getting the math wrong and misunderstanding how handicaps work, so I don't know what to tell you there.

 

A woman who can play to a +5 or better wipes the floor with a man who's a 0 all day everyday and twice on Sundays. I've seen it, and it isn't close. At all.

 

LOL - as long as you stay away from math and actual handicapping, you are free to say things like "I've seen it, and it isn't close. At all." Alternatively, you could answer the question as to what men's handicap the women's +5 is equal to.

 

FYI - At Wilshire, the mens' rating from the White tees is 70.5 and for the women from the exact same set of tees is 77.6 so a difference there of 7.1 strokes with the exact same score. This gap is very consistent across all rated courses so there's an implied stroke differential between scratch golfers of different sexes.

This is correct. The differential varies from course to course, but is generally between 5 and 7 strokes. The tendency is for shorter courses to have a smaller differential and the longer courses have a larger differential. Also there seems to be regional as well as temporal (when the course was rated) variation that I don't entirely understand. The median differential seems to be between 5.5 and 6 strokes. I have spent an awful lot of my golfing life playing unrated tees so comparing men's and women's ratings is somewhat of a hobby.

[williamsnrb]

As others have said, course setup plays a major role. If the course f playing hard and fast, the edge goes to the LPGA player. If wet with tucked pins, I give the edge to the scratch amateur. If length is a major factor, I give the edge to the scratch amateur as well. LPGA players have game, no doubt. But they play a very different sport in relation to a scratch male golfer.

[Obee]

Using the men's rating, or the woman's rating? The last time I looked they are women, and their rating from the blue tees (6265 yards) is 77.1. They played from 6450 yards, or a combo of Macbeth/Green. The rating is ~78.2.

 

The scoring average for the 150th ranked LPGA player is 75.67. She's approximately a +5. The median player is ~+8.

 

'Not sure why folks insist on calculating women's indexes using the men's ratings.

 

'Tis a mystery.

 

I've yet to meet an actual honest, traveling scratch who thinks they're as good as an LPGA tour player. It's always the vanity caps, or the 5s or 8s who think they're only a few missed putts away from being a scratch, ergo they're only a few missed putts away from beating an LPGA tour player. To a true scratch golfer who plays competitively and has seen even one LPGA tour event in person.....well let's just say it's just incredibly obvious to him that there's a massive gulf between what he can do on the course and what an LPGA tour player can do on the course.

 

I see you've moved away from any math. Good call despite all your unprecedented knowledge about how handicaps are calculated.

 

Let's see how obee's tourney goes and we can debate what the rating differential is due to the shorter par 5....

 

Whatever man. You're the one who keeps getting the math wrong and misunderstanding how handicaps work, so I don't know what to tell you there.

 

A woman who can play to a +5 or better wipes the floor with a man who's a 0 all day everyday and twice on Sundays. I've seen it, and it isn't close. At all.

 

I'm really not sure how to respond to this. I'm literally scratching my head. How much golf have you, personally, played with LPGA players? Do they "wipe the floor" with you?

 

What do you think the average score of the guys in this tournament is going to be? Will it be lower than, the same as, or higher than, the cut at the Hugel-JTBC? The handicaps of the guys playing this tournament that I will "count" for scoring purposes will have indexes that AVERAGE somewhere between 1 and +2 for the entire year. This is as good sampling of "scratch" golfers as I can come up with.

 

And keep in mind, we are playing the course 100 to 300 yards longer than the ladies played it. Shape of the course will be nearly identical. The pins for the ladies were standard for our tournament. If anything, they were a bit easier than we generally see. Regardless, though, we are going to play the course in a bit more difficult conditions, just due to the added length alone. I was there at the LPGA event. There was no rough. Greens were receptive, and rolling 11.5 to 12. Exactly where we play them every year for the Macbeth. Sometimes they are even faster for the Macbeth, just depends on the year and the weather conditions.

 

I really don't get your point. My contention is clear: My buddies and I will average right around what an average LPGA Tour player will shoot (~2-over par 73 at the Hugel-JTBC). If I'm making as accurate a guess as possible, I would say my group of buddies will average one stroke higher: 74. Our low round will be around the same as the low round of the tournament (66, I believe, for the ladies this year). And our high rounds will be a bit higher (I expect several guys in our group to shoot 80 or 81 at about the worst -- not sure what the worst scores of the LPGA event were).

 

What is YOUR point? About THIS thread? Specifically: LPGA players and scratch/below amateurs on the same course in nearly identical conditions? Other than they will "wipe the floor" with the scratch golfers and it "isn't even close"? What will we shoot? Is it not a valid comparison? If not, why not?

[Donno]

Years ago, I was at the Westin Gary Player course, mid-summer in Rancho Mirage, CA. I signed up as a single...the course was nearly empty. Then the starter let me know I would be paired with a woman. I'm thinking no problem, but it may be a "long round", and I mentally started getting out my "advice book".

 

Then this nice looking fit woman walks to the tee, says hello, shakes my hand, then pulls the cover off her driver. She looked "too comfortable". Plus, she wasn't in the cart getting ready to drive to the ladies tees, she was on "MY TEES"! I was thinking she's just being kind to watch my drive. So I drive the ball maybe 250. Picked up my tee, turned around and saw her walking up from behind me to tee off. WAT!

 

She drove the ball at least 20 yards past my ball...middle. I hit my 2nd shot short of the green. She hit her shot within 9 or so feet of the pin. She waited for me to chip on the green...ending up about the same distance from the cup as her ball. I two putt or a bogey. She does her setup, and rolls in a birdie putt. I'm 2 down already! Next hole she found a fairway bunker, about 150 out. I'm thinking "I've got her now!". She stepped up, took her time, then landed the ball on the green about 15 feet from the pin. Missed the birdie putt by an inch...tap in.

 

This continued all day...tee to green for her. I was fighting to stay relevant! I think she shot 3 or 4 under...she was always putting for birdie. I shot in the low-80's...blown out! It was my most memorable golf round because I had a never been paired with a single woman golfer, and NOT one of that caliber. I marveled at her swing...same rhythm with every club....and the way she rolled her putts...she showed me how to roll putts..but I was too mesmerized to listen. I'm not saying it was her, but based on my recollection, I swear it might have been a young Lexi Thompson. I remember at the end of the round she said she was practicing to play in a qualifier for the LPGA.

[dhc1]

Thanks for the overview on the handicap system.....

 

Not sure what you said negates my point that a scratch men's player could be in the mix for earning an LPGA card which is about 150 ladies. No one is talking about beating the best of the lpga as I directly stated....

 

You're very welcome. The point is that you miscalculated the handicap of a full field LPGA event by doing the math entirely wrong. The full field handicap of an LPGA event isn't +2 to 1 as you stated, again, because you did the math entirely wrong.

 

What do you think the equivalent handicap is for the 150th ranked LPGA player? The median player = 75th?

 

To give you a hint, the average cut-line score is about 2 strokes over the course rating as we've looked at this over the course of a season on courses that are usually a bit shorter than members tees as obee stated. Argonne69 gave you another data point as well

 

Using the men's rating, or the woman's rating? The last time I looked they are women, and their rating from the blue tees (6265 yards) is 77.1. They played from 6450 yards, or a combo of Macbeth/Green. The rating is ~78.2.

 

The scoring average for the 150th ranked LPGA player is 75.67. She's approximately a +5. The median player is ~+8.

 

'Not sure why folks insist on calculating women's indexes using the men's ratings.

 

Obee - would you happen to know what your average scoring over the last 20 or so rounds is? Is 75-76 within reason? By my estimation, that would be about a scratch assuming you play at ratings between 72 and 73.

 

Argonne - what do you think these exact same score for the 150th ranked lady would be if you switched to a men's rating? Also, is the median LPGA score approximately 72.67 as I'm estimating from what you wrote?

[Argonne69]

Jessica Korda is currently leading the scoring average race with 68.85, and would be ~+4.8 using a men's rating of 71.8 from the blue tees (6506 yards). Her best 10 out of 20 are 62, 66, 66, 67, 67, 68, 68, 68, 68, 68.

 

The 75th ranked LPGA player is averaging 72.4 this season, and would be ~+1.3. Her best 10 out of the last 20 are 68, 69, 70, 70, 71, 71, 71, 71, 71, 72.

 

The 150th ranked player is averaging 75.7, and would be ~1.9 using the men's rating.

[deadsolid...shank]

Help me out. Why all the talk about handicaps and men's and women's ratings? I'm not seeing the point. In this instance.

 

This is going to be chance to compare actual scores played from very similar conditions. Probably as close as we're ever going to get outside of having them actually in the same field.

 

No matter if anyone is a plus or minus or whatever, we're finally actually going to be able to compare real scores.

[dhc1]

Help me out. Why all the talk about handicaps and men's and women's ratings? I'm not seeing the point. In this instance.

 

This is going to be chance to compare actual scores played from very similar conditions. Probably as close as we're ever going to get outside of having them actually in the same field.

 

No matter if anyone is a plus or minus or whatever, we're finally actually going to be able to compare real scores.

 

DSS -

 

The only point is today that I’m guessing it’ll be close based upon the facts of scores and slope/rating.

 

It’s great that we’ll have a real world test.

[Obee]

Thanks for the overview on the handicap system.....

 

Not sure what you said negates my point that a scratch men's player could be in the mix for earning an LPGA card which is about 150 ladies. No one is talking about beating the best of the lpga as I directly stated....

 

You're very welcome. The point is that you miscalculated the handicap of a full field LPGA event by doing the math entirely wrong. The full field handicap of an LPGA event isn't +2 to 1 as you stated, again, because you did the math entirely wrong.

 

What do you think the equivalent handicap is for the 150th ranked LPGA player? The median player = 75th?

 

To give you a hint, the average cut-line score is about 2 strokes over the course rating as we've looked at this over the course of a season on courses that are usually a bit shorter than members tees as obee stated. Argonne69 gave you another data point as well

 

Using the men's rating, or the woman's rating? The last time I looked they are women, and their rating from the blue tees (6265 yards) is 77.1. They played from 6450 yards, or a combo of Macbeth/Green. The rating is ~78.2.

 

The scoring average for the 150th ranked LPGA player is 75.67. She's approximately a +5. The median player is ~+8.

 

'Not sure why folks insist on calculating women's indexes using the men's ratings.

 

Obee - would you happen to know what your average scoring over the last 20 or so rounds is? Is 75-76 within reason? By my estimation, that would be about a scratch assuming you play at ratings between 72 and 73.

 

Argonne - what do you think these exact same score for the 150th ranked lady would be if you switched to a men's rating? Also, is the median LPGA score approximately 72.67 as I'm estimating from what you wrote?

 

In 2017, I played 47 "T" rounds (rounds designated as "tournament" or "competition" scores.) My average score was 74.7, with a low of 67, and a high of 83. In 2016 I played 45 tournament rounds with an average score of 74.1, and a low of 68 and a high of 83.

[nic19]

Gary Wolstenholme( one of the best amateurs ever) only hit the ball about 235 yards. He spanked everyone. Most LPGA players would be past him. Distance isn't everything. I also have to reference Richard and Madison who have played with countless LPGA players and have recorded the rounds. If I remember right off the tips at over 7000 yards the girls scored under 70. Anything under 7000 yards and my money is on the LPGA player.

[Shilgy]

 

In 2017, I played 47 "T" rounds (rounds designated as "tournament" or "competition" scores.) My average score was 74.7, with a low of 67, and a high of 83. In 2016 I played 45 tournament rounds with an average score of 74.1, and a low of 68 and a high of 83.

Well done...thank you for that. Good playing and as I recall from your posts you have been playing to about scratch to +2 most of that time. About the same as #150. Maybe more like #130-140 as there is always a big drop offer at the back end of the ladies players. Much more so than on the men’s tour.

 

PS for those wanting to use ladies handicaps...not in this case. The fact that a player would be a ladies +5 does not mean she will shoot five strokes better than a male scratch.

[DavePelz4]

In 2017, I played 47 "T" rounds (rounds designated as "tournament" or "competition" scores.) My average score was 74.7, with a low of 67, and a high of 83. In 2016 I played 45 tournament rounds with an average score of 74.1, and a low of 68 and a high of 83.

Well done...thank you for that. Good playing and as I recall from your posts you have been playing to about scratch to +2 most of that time. About the same as #150. Maybe more like #130-140 as their is always a big drop offer at the back end of the ladies players. Much more so than on the men’s tour.

 

PS for those wanting to use ladies handicaps...not in this case. The fact that a player would be a ladies +5 does not mean she will shoot five strokes better than a male scratch.

 

Over 100 rounds, the LPGA player will win more often. But for a single round, Obee could post a 70 and Stacy Lewis a 76.

 

Let's not forget that it took David 1 good shot to bring down a giant.

[straightshot7]

Gary Wolstenholme( one of the best amateurs ever) only hit the ball about 235 yards. He spanked everyone. Most LPGA players would be past him. Distance isn't everything. I also have to reference Richard and Madison who have played with countless LPGA players and have recorded the rounds. If I remember right off the tips at over 7000 yards the girls scored under 70. Anything under 7000 yards and my money is on the LPGA player.

 

He "spanked everyone" in amateur events. He didn't do much when he turned pro, although he was probably out of his prime at that point.

 

He struggled at the 2008 US Open (shooting 83,82) because the course was just too long for him. His average driving distance was 250 yards, compared to the field avg. of 289 yards. He hit more fairways (68%) compared to the field (58%). But hit only 22% GIR.

 

It obviously depends a lot on course setup/length. And I agree with you that "distance isn't everything" but it is very important.

 

A person hitting the ball 250 off the tee couldn't compete on today's PGA Tour unless they were #1 in every other area.

 

So all to say that distance does matter (a lot).

[sailfishchris]

Obee, you click bait hooch! I can't wait for the results Memorial Day weekend?

[b.helts]

Obee, you click bait hooch! When are you playing this round so I can just hear how you did?

 

Dude. It’s literally in the fourth sentence of Obee’s first post.

 

Some people’s children. (;

[mosesgolf]

Guys underestimate women way too much.

[MadGolfer76]

Guys underestimate women way too much.

 

That and egos...

[Obee]

Guys underestimate women way too much.

 

Some do. I am not one of them.

[tiderider]

In 2017, I played 47 "T" rounds (rounds designated as "tournament" or "competition" scores.) My average score was 74.7, with a low of 67, and a high of 83. In 2016 I played 45 tournament rounds with an average score of 74.1, and a low of 68 and a high of 83.

Well done...thank you for that. Good playing and as I recall from your posts you have been playing to about scratch to +2 most of that time. About the same as #150. Maybe more like #130-140 as their is always a big drop offer at the back end of the ladies players. Much more so than on the men’s tour.

 

PS for those wanting to use ladies handicaps...not in this case. The fact that a player would be a ladies +5 does not mean she will shoot five strokes better than a male scratch.

 

Over 100 rounds, the LPGA player will win more often. But for a single round, Obee could post a 70 and Stacy Lewis a 76.

 

Let's not forget that it took David 1 good shot to bring down a giant.

 

with inferior equipment, no less ...

[DavePelz4]

In 2017, I played 47 "T" rounds (rounds designated as "tournament" or "competition" scores.) My average score was 74.7, with a low of 67, and a high of 83. In 2016 I played 45 tournament rounds with an average score of 74.1, and a low of 68 and a high of 83.

Well done...thank you for that. Good playing and as I recall from your posts you have been playing to about scratch to +2 most of that time. About the same as #150. Maybe more like #130-140 as their is always a big drop offer at the back end of the ladies players. Much more so than on the men’s tour.

 

PS for those wanting to use ladies handicaps...not in this case. The fact that a player would be a ladies +5 does not mean she will shoot five strokes better than a male scratch.

 

Over 100 rounds, the LPGA player will win more often. But for a single round, Obee could post a 70 and Stacy Lewis a 76.

 

Let's not forget that it took David 1 good shot to bring down a giant.

 

with inferior equipment, no less ...

 

Yes that stone wasn't forged but it was definitely cast.

[dpb5031]

Fun discussion regardless whether it actually means anything definitively, which it really doesnt.

 

Slightly OT, but I think part of the difficulty many have in processing the comparison is due to a misunderstanding of the difference between men's and women's handicaps in terms of how they're calculated and how they're applied.

 

There are different course ratings for women and men from the exact same tees/yardage. As has been stated, its typically around a 6 stroke difference.

 

So, when a female player enters her score after playing the men's tees (almost all college, pro, and high level junior women ), the course rating is about 6 shots higher than what is used to calculate a male player's handicap from the same exact tees. The result is that if the male and female play 20 rounds from the same tees and shoot the exact same scores, the female's HC will be about 6 strokes lower.

 

E.g. My daughter plays college golf and is a +2 HC. When she plays in money games with me against my buddies (one in from the back tees) we have to add the difference between the mens and women's course ratings (for that set of tees) to her handicap to make it competitive.

 

I'll use round numbers for simplicity, but the same set of tees is rated 72 for a male player, 78 for a female player...a 6 stroke difference. So, to make it fair and competitive we must add 6 strokes to her +2 women's HC. The net result is she plays as a 4.

 

Some of the USGA set-ups are so difficult I've seen ratings of 79.8/155. Shoot a 5 over 77 and you're still entering scores that will put you in plus territory! In can be confusing...

 

P.S. My apologies to the many here who already know this stuff.

 

 

[straightshot7]

Fun discussion regardless whether it actually means anything definitively, which it really doesnt.

 

Slightly OT, but I think part of the difficulty many have in processing the comparison is due to a misunderstanding of the difference between men's and women's handicaps in terms of how they're calculated and how they're applied.

 

There are different course ratings for women and men from the exact same tees/yardage. As has been stated, its typically around a 6 stroke difference.

 

So, when a female player enters her score after playing the men's tees (almost all college, pro, and high level junior women ), the course rating is about 6 shots higher than what is used to calculate a male player's handicap from the same exact tees. The result is that if the male and female play 20 rounds from the same tees and shoot the exact same scores, the female's HC will be about 6 strokes lower.

 

E.g. My daughter plays college golf and is a +2 HC. When she plays in money games with me against my buddies (one in from the back tees) we have to add the difference between the mens and women's course ratings (for that set of tees) to her handicap to make it competitive.

 

I'll use round numbers for simplicity, but the same set of tees is rated 72 for a male player, 78 for a female player...a 6 stroke difference. So, to make it fair and competitive we must add 6 strokes to her +2 women's HC. The net result is she plays as a 4.

 

Some of the USGA set-ups are so difficult I've seen ratings of 79.8/155. Shoot a 5 over 77 and you're still entering scores that will put you in plus territory! In can be confusing...

 

P.S. My apologies to the many here who already know this stuff.

 

Yeah that's why in theory this comparison of raw scores is better. I personally wouldn't take seriously any conclusions being made using a handicapped system.

 

The Macbeth may not be a Pro tournament but at least it's a tournament. And the scores will be compared to the LPGA tournament.

 

No handicaps involved.

 

Differences are that the Macbeth course will be longer and it is a different environment.

[gmangolf]

I have no idea how a "good scratch" player would fare... but I was a "bad scratch" player years ago and I would have bet on the LPGA pro every day of the week. :)

[golf1010]

Lpga 2-4 shots better and 8-12 over 72 holes

They could possibly be beat in any 18 hole event but I doubt they would lose a 72 hole event ever

[deadsolid...shank]

Lpga 2-4 shots better and 8-12 over 72 holes

They could possibly be beat in any 18 hole event but I doubt they would lose a 72 hole event ever

 

I think most everyone agrees with that statement. For the most part. Ever might raise some questions. Its like the statement "never say never".

[Barfolomew]

Ya would've thought the damn computers would have figured this all out already.....there is tons of data on handicaps, course length, different tee ratings etc.... and the computers could do the math for a theoretical match between anyone and you just have to input the parameters about the course and player and it will predict the outcomes.... Im sure Vegas does it lol!

 

Then you could figure out what would make different players shoot same scores......Kinda like when you do a break even analysis in business.

 

example: Male pro, +4, 7,400 yards, 78 rating tees, plus other key info = Female pro, +5, 6,800 yards, 74 rating, plus other key info = Amateur male, +2, 72 rating, 6,200 yards, plus other key info

[Dpavs]

[Obee]

This was after day 2 last year. Really looking forward to this year!!

 

Hale, Funk, and Fernando are very, very good players, all capable of shooting 64 or 65 at Wilshire on a solid day. I'm a short-hitting hack compared to those three. There are usually several others in the field at about their level, and sometimes even better (Patrick Cantlay played with his father just before turning pro!)

 

LOS ANGELES, Calif. (May 27, 2017) -- DJ Fernando and Stephen Hale have posted 9-under 133 through 36 holes to hold a two shot lead at the Macbeth at Wilshire Country Club.

Fernando and Hale play out of Bakersfield Country Club, and both hold impressive resumes -- Fernando recorded four top-10 finishes in California tournaments last year including a win at the Santa Cruz City.

 

Hale is a former Cal Berkeley golfer who after graduation competed with status on the PGA Tour Latinoamerica circuit and PGA Tour Canada circuit. The longtime AmateurGolf.com member and "Tour" participant has recently become reinstated as an amateur and settled into a roll as a competitive mid-amateur golfer while working on the retail real estate team for Colliers International.

 

The pair will have to hold off a number of talented teams giving chase, including David Ober and Robert Funk of Bear Creek (6-under 136). Also in the field is golf apparel legends John and Hank Ashworth - they have posted an impressive total of 3-under 139 especially given the fact that John (who runs Linksoul and manages Goat Hill Park) plays with persimmons.

[dhc1]

Lpga 2-4 shots better and 8-12 over 72 holes

They could possibly be beat in any 18 hole event but I doubt they would lose a 72 hole event ever

 

I think most everyone agrees with that statement. For the most part. Ever might raise some questions. Its like the statement "never say never".

 

Guys underestimate women way too much.

 

That and egos...

 

Over 100 rounds, the LPGA player will win more often. But for a single round, Obee could post a 70 and Stacy Lewis a 76.

 

Let's not forget that it took David 1 good shot to bring down a giant.

 

I don't understand comments like these: according to Argonne's numbers based on actual rounds played, the 150th ranked LPGA pro is a men's 1.9 handicap based upon her actual scores. How is it that this 2 handicap is supposed to beat a +1 like Obee by up to 12 strokes over 72 holes? I'll take the golfer with the lower index for $500, Alex.

 

It's math.