Mickelson hitting putt while ball was still moving?

[curitiba]

So, if you have a downhill putt that passes the hole and threatens to roll into a pond (15 at Augusta) you simply go after your putt, wait till it passes the hole, then kick it back in, accept the two stroke penalty and move on, just because you think the setup of the green sucks? Cmon! The action itself was dumb, his blah blah why he did it was even dumber. Time not to call him FIGJAM anymore, but FIFOMBAR (F**k I'm Full Of Myself But Always Right).

 

Ill bite. lets say the ball goes in the hazard, He would have had the option of placing his ball back on the green and putt again with a 1 stroke penalty.

 

On Saturday he got a 2 stroke penalty.

[warfelg]

So, I'm just going to put this out there:

 

Would you rather see a guy do what Phil did out of frustration or would you rather have someone waste 30 minutes arguing with rules officials to get a beneficial drop like Jordan did?

[bladehunter]

Phil gives 0 fux about this right now, proof of his hands raised triumphant par today, all smiles.

 

The dude is a modern golf legend, he doesn't give an f if some lame british guy calls him an a$s on TV. He's Phil. Golf fans worship him.

 

 

He will lose fans over this plain and simple.

 

Nah. People who are griping about this are 1. Not phil fans 2. Not trying to understand the rule.

[bladehunter]

So, if you have a downhill putt that passes the hole and threatens to roll into a pond (15 at Augusta) you simply go after your putt, wait till it passes the hole, then kick it back in, accept the two stroke penalty and move on, just because you think the setup of the green sucks? Cmon! The action itself was dumb, his blah blah why he did it was even dumber. Time not to call him FIGJAM anymore, but FIFOMBAR (F**k I'm Full Of Myself But Always Right).

 

No.you have To get to it to make a stroke. Kicking it would be grounds for DQ. The saving grace is a stroke at the hole.

[Short Pete]

So, if you have a downhill putt that passes the hole and threatens to roll into a pond (15 at Augusta) you simply go after your putt, wait till it passes the hole, then kick it back in, accept the two stroke penalty and move on, just because you think the setup of the green sucks? Cmon! The action itself was dumb, his blah blah why he did it was even dumber. Time not to call him FIGJAM anymore, but FIFOMBAR (F**k I'm Full Of Myself But Always Right).

 

No.you have To get to it to make a stroke. Kicking it would be grounds for DQ. The saving grace is a stroke at the hole.

 

I meant kicking it into the hole with the putter.

[tiderider]

Phil gives 0 fux about this right now, proof of his hands raised triumphant par today, all smiles.

 

The dude is a modern golf legend, he doesn't give an f if some lame british guy calls him an a$s on TV. He's Phil. Golf fans worship him.

 

 

He will lose fans over this plain and simple.

 

Nah. People who are griping about this are 1. Not phil fans 2. Not trying to understand the rule.

 

Yah. People aren't "melting" or "offended", and plenty of people who are golf fans/phil fans in general think it stinks ... they understand the rule (why do people keep going back to that? ... it's not the tax code) ... they just believe, rightfully so, that the rule wasn't written for this situation and should not be used by the usga to keep phil in the tournament ... he absolutely attempted to gain an advantage by making a lower score ... that's a dq if there ever was one ...

[cxx]

I was/am a huge fan of Phil (us lefties need to stick together) but this will tarnish a pretty great career and will do little to influence how the USGA sets up courses in the future. If his message was to send a message to the USGA he would have been best served by letting the ball roll down the hill, picking it up and withdrawing from the tournament. In post round interviews he could discuss his reasoning and put pressure on Mike Davis and the USGA for how poorly they handled the course setup on Saturday. There is nothing positive to the way he handled this and as a fan it's really disappointing.

 

I also agree with others, the fallout would have been 1000x worse if Tiger did this instead of Phil.

 

 

No, I think Phil's actions did prompt the USGA to soften the course much more on Sunday than they otherwise would have. They were about to go over the cliff when Phil slapped them. Good for him. The USGA has a terrible reputation for managing the conditions in their championships.

 

I think the USGA course setup premise is flawed. They should strive for a reasonably consistent set of conditions for each day rather than the razor's edge of insanity that infects their brains.

[bladehunter]

So, if you have a downhill putt that passes the hole and threatens to roll into a pond (15 at Augusta) you simply go after your putt, wait till it passes the hole, then kick it back in, accept the two stroke penalty and move on, just because you think the setup of the green sucks? Cmon! The action itself was dumb, his blah blah why he did it was even dumber. Time not to call him FIGJAM anymore, but FIFOMBAR (F**k I'm Full Of Myself But Always Right).

 

No.you have To get to it to make a stroke. Kicking it would be grounds for DQ. The saving grace is a stroke at the hole.

 

 

 

I meant kicking it into the hole with the putter.

 

2 stroke penalty as I understand it.

[warfelg]

Yah. People aren't "melting" or "offended", and plenty of people who are golf fans/phil fans in general think it stinks ... they understand the rule (why do people keep going back to that? ... it's not the tax code) ... they just believe, rightfully so, that the rule wasn't written for this situation and should not be used by the usga to keep phil in the tournament ... he absolutely attempted to gain an advantage by making a lower score ... that's a dq if there ever was one ...

 

Isn't that what every rules question about though? Trying to get relief from anything is about that. Taking unplayables for a better yardage. Using a different club to end up on the cart path.

 

What about Patrick Reed on 16 at Bethpage during the Deutche Bank where he pulled the 3 wood from 180 yards, put it down, pressed hard, basically to move the rough from behind the ball so he could get the iron on it and not catch a flyer?

 

Yes Phil's might be the most obvious of all of it, but players are regularly trying to use the rules to their advantage. People are just mad because Phil is being so open about it.

[RobS14526]

So, I'm just going to put this out there:

 

Would you rather see a guy do what Phil did out of frustration or would you rather have someone waste 30 minutes arguing with rules officials to get a beneficial drop like Jordan did?

 

I guess I prefer the one that is within the rules. For the record I laughed my a** off at what Phil did and also think he should have been dq'd.

[bladehunter]

Phil gives 0 fux about this right now, proof of his hands raised triumphant par today, all smiles.

 

The dude is a modern golf legend, he doesn't give an f if some lame british guy calls him an a$s on TV. He's Phil. Golf fans worship him.

 

 

He will lose fans over this plain and simple.

 

Nah. People who are griping about this are 1. Not phil fans 2. Not trying to understand the rule.

 

Yah. People aren't "melting" or "offended", and plenty of people who are golf fans/phil fans in general think it stinks ... they understand the rule (why do people keep going back to that? ... it's not the tax code) ... they just believe, rightfully so, that the rule wasn't written for this situation and should not be used by the usga to keep phil in the tournament ... he absolutely attempted to gain an advantage by making a lower score ... that's a dq if there ever was one ...

 

If you understand the rule. Then you must know that your issue is with that rule. Not phil. Had the rule said DQ hedhave been DQed. It says 2 stroke penalty. I agree the rule should be re written. But as is phil didn’t break any rule that warrants a DQ. Just a 2 stroke penalty.

 

We keep going back to the rule because that’s all there is to go back to. We don’t just make up things and DQ someone based on “ feelings “. Rule book exists for s reason. To go back to it to see how to proceed.

[tiderider]

Yah. People aren't "melting" or "offended", and plenty of people who are golf fans/phil fans in general think it stinks ... they understand the rule (why do people keep going back to that? ... it's not the tax code) ... they just believe, rightfully so, that the rule wasn't written for this situation and should not be used by the usga to keep phil in the tournament ... he absolutely attempted to gain an advantage by making a lower score ... that's a dq if there ever was one ...

 

Isn't that what every rules question about though? Trying to get relief from anything is about that. Taking unplayables for a better yardage. Using a different club to end up on the cart path.

 

What about Patrick Reed on 16 at Bethpage during the Deutche Bank where he pulled the 3 wood from 180 yards, put it down, pressed hard, basically to move the rough from behind the ball so he could get the iron on it and not catch a flyer?

 

Yes Phil's might be the most obvious of all of it, but players are regularly trying to use the rules to their advantage. People are just mad because Phil is being so open about it.

 

where/when did phil state "i was trying to improve my score on the hole"? ... how is taking relief and adding a stroke anywhere similar to deflecting your ball from going off the green?

 

don't remember reed's situation, though if it's a penalty, then it's on the usga, who is the real problem here; they could've dq'd phil, but didn't ...

[bladehunter]

AND the argument of lower score doesn’t add up. He had two options to score lower than what he did. He actually chose the gauranteeed higher score. This isn’t a court of law. But you don’t even have enough evidence to Bring charges. Much less get a conviction.

[tiderider]

Phil gives 0 fux about this right now, proof of his hands raised triumphant par today, all smiles.

 

The dude is a modern golf legend, he doesn't give an f if some lame british guy calls him an a$s on TV. He's Phil. Golf fans worship him.

 

 

He will lose fans over this plain and simple.

 

Nah. People who are griping about this are 1. Not phil fans 2. Not trying to understand the rule.

 

Yah. People aren't "melting" or "offended", and plenty of people who are golf fans/phil fans in general think it stinks ... they understand the rule (why do people keep going back to that? ... it's not the tax code) ... they just believe, rightfully so, that the rule wasn't written for this situation and should not be used by the usga to keep phil in the tournament ... he absolutely attempted to gain an advantage by making a lower score ... that's a dq if there ever was one ...

 

If you understand the rule. Then you must know that your issue is with that rule. Not phil. Had the rule said DQ hedhave been DQed. It says 2 stroke penalty. I agree the rule should be re written. But as is phil didn't break any rule that warrants a DQ. Just a 2 stroke penalty.

 

We keep going back to the rule because that's all there is to go back to. We don't just make up things and DQ someone based on " feelings ". Rule book exists for s reason. To go back to it to see how to proceed.

 

well, you're right about one thing - the issue isn't phil, it's the usga ... far as the rule, it doesn't need to be rewritten at all, imo ... the other rule simply needs to be invoked and used as a serious breech ... that wasn't a stroke; it was a deflection, which doesn't need to be defined ... phil deflected the ball from going ob/in the hazard/off the green ...

[sfiggins]

AND the argument of lower score doesn’t add up. He had two options to score lower than what he did. He actually chose the gauranteeed higher score. This isn’t a court of law. But you don’t even have enough evidence to Bring charges. Much less get a conviction.

 

Other than the millions of eye witnesses, of course.

[warfelg]

So, I'm just going to put this out there:

 

Would you rather see a guy do what Phil did out of frustration or would you rather have someone waste 30 minutes arguing with rules officials to get a beneficial drop like Jordan did?

 

I guess I prefer the one that is within the rules. For the record I laughed my a** off at what Phil did and also think he should have been dq'd.

 

I personally think both are bad, but I rather see someone do what Phil did I guess. Jordan was really working them over to gain a clear advantage. I think it can really be argued that what Phil did really didn't gain him an advantage. From the stroke on the moving ball to finishing it was 4 strokes. There's a reasonable enough belief that he could have holed out the chip, or chipped and 1 putted or even 2 putted and had taken less strokes to finish out.

[tiderider]

AND the argument of lower score doesn't add up. He had two options to score lower than what he did. He actually chose the gauranteeed higher score. This isn't a court of law. But you don't even have enough evidence to Bring charges. Much less get a conviction.

 

if his deflection goes into the hole, it's a 6 + 2 = 8 ... there's no guarantee he gets it up and in for an 8 from off the green (or wherever it would've ended up) ...

[bladehunter]

AND the argument of lower score doesn’t add up. He had two options to score lower than what he did. He actually chose the gauranteeed higher score. This isn’t a court of law. But you don’t even have enough evidence to Bring charges. Much less get a conviction.

 

Other than the millions of eye witnesses, of course.

 

Eye witnesses to a 2 stroke penalty. Lol. He admitted to. No need for a trial for that one. You guys are trying to call him a cheat. That would take a re write of the rule.

[bladehunter]

AND the argument of lower score doesn't add up. He had two options to score lower than what he did. He actually chose the gauranteeed higher score. This isn't a court of law. But you don't even have enough evidence to Bring charges. Much less get a conviction.

 

if his deflection goes into the hole, it's a 6 + 2 = 8 ... there's no guarantee he gets it up and in for an 8 from off the green (or wherever it would've ended up) ...

 

He could have declared the 1st putt unplayable though. Moved it to s Better playable angle and dropped that putt. For a 6. 7 tops. He didn’t chose the lowest score possible.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Nope it was a stroke. The fact that others think contrary is totally irrelevant.

[warfelg]

Yah. People aren't "melting" or "offended", and plenty of people who are golf fans/phil fans in general think it stinks ... they understand the rule (why do people keep going back to that? ... it's not the tax code) ... they just believe, rightfully so, that the rule wasn't written for this situation and should not be used by the usga to keep phil in the tournament ... he absolutely attempted to gain an advantage by making a lower score ... that's a dq if there ever was one ...

 

Isn't that what every rules question about though? Trying to get relief from anything is about that. Taking unplayables for a better yardage. Using a different club to end up on the cart path.

 

What about Patrick Reed on 16 at Bethpage during the Deutche Bank where he pulled the 3 wood from 180 yards, put it down, pressed hard, basically to move the rough from behind the ball so he could get the iron on it and not catch a flyer?

 

Yes Phil's might be the most obvious of all of it, but players are regularly trying to use the rules to their advantage. People are just mad because Phil is being so open about it.

 

where/when did phil state "i was trying to improve my score on the hole"? ... how is taking relief and adding a stroke anywhere similar to deflecting your ball from going off the green?

 

don't remember reed's situation, though if it's a penalty, then it's on the usga, who is the real problem here; they could've dq'd phil, but didn't ...

 

Not the part I was referring too. I was talking more about him being open that he knew he was striking a moving ball and it would be a two stroke penalty.

 

And with Reed's situation, it was during the FedEx Playoffs. 2 years ago in the duel with Rickie. There's no rule against what he did, but he certainly used that there's no rule against that to his advantage. When I was at Bethpage the one guy I played with was the spotter on that hole and he's the one that brought up what happened because my tee shot landed in almost the same place. He was telling me that people were groaning when they realized Reed was improving his lie by using his 3wd to press down the grass behind the ball.

 

But that's what I'm really pointing out. When a guy games the rules in a very subtle way, no one really cares. When a guy does it, admits that he knows what the rule is, and on top of that it worked for him, people are bound to be more up in arms over someone admitting that they did it.

[bladehunter]

Also dontget the Jordan drop hate. He absolutely was well within the rules to get relief from the trailers and to take that unplayable It only took so long because the officials were scratching their heads trying to get it right. And they did.

[Ghost of Snead]

Phil gives 0 fux about this right now, proof of his hands raised triumphant par today, all smiles.

 

The dude is a modern golf legend, he doesn't give an f if some lame british guy calls him an a$s on TV. He's Phil. Golf fans worship him.

 

 

He will lose fans over this plain and simple.

 

Nah. People who are griping about this are 1. Not phil fans 2. Not trying to understand the rule.

 

Yah. People aren't "melting" or "offended", and plenty of people who are golf fans/phil fans in general think it stinks ... they understand the rule (why do people keep going back to that? ... it's not the tax code) ... they just believe, rightfully so, that the rule wasn't written for this situation and should not be used by the usga to keep phil in the tournament ... he absolutely attempted to gain an advantage by making a lower score ... that's a dq if there ever was one ...

 

Exactly and forgetting about the rule, I simply ask would Nicklaus/Palmer/Jones/Nelson/Watson/countless others have hit a moving ball on purpose ? No chance ...

 

Does Phil "knowing the rules" make it acceptable from an integrity POV ? If he knows the rules, I'm sure he also knew he could taken an unplayable on the green and moved the ball 2 club lengths down the hill, no closer to the hole.

 

Someone mentioned being back of the 15th @ Augusta and doing the same thing to prevent a chip from going in the water. Is that what we want ?

[gvogel]

Phil gives 0 fux about this right now, proof of his hands raised triumphant par today, all smiles.

 

The dude is a modern golf legend, he doesn't give an f if some lame british guy calls him an a$s on TV. He's Phil. Golf fans worship him.

 

 

He will lose fans over this plain and simple.

 

Nah. People who are griping about this are 1. Not phil fans 2. Not trying to understand the rule.

 

Yah. People aren't "melting" or "offended", and plenty of people who are golf fans/phil fans in general think it stinks ... they understand the rule (why do people keep going back to that? ... it's not the tax code) ... they just believe, rightfully so, that the rule wasn't written for this situation and should not be used by the usga to keep phil in the tournament ... he absolutely attempted to gain an advantage by making a lower score ... that's a dq if there ever was one ...

 

If you understand the rule. Then you must know that your issue is with that rule. Not phil. Had the rule said DQ hedhave been DQed. It says 2 stroke penalty. I agree the rule should be re written. But as is phil didn't break any rule that warrants a DQ. Just a 2 stroke penalty.

 

We keep going back to the rule because that's all there is to go back to. We don't just make up things and DQ someone based on " feelings ". Rule book exists for s reason. To go back to it to see how to proceed.

 

You are correct based upon semantics. If Phil puts his putter down on the green to block the ball from rolling any further, he gets dq'd. If he makes a feeble stroke, he gets 2 shots.

 

But for most of the civilized world, his intent would have been the same in either situation. So the rule needs to be changed.

[QuigleyDU]

So, I'm just going to put this out there: Would you rather see a guy do what Phil did out of frustration or would you rather have someone waste 30 minutes arguing with rules officials to get a beneficial drop like Jordan did?

I guess I prefer the one that is within the rules. For the record I laughed my a** off at what Phil did and also think he should have been dq'd.

 

if the rules stated that the penalty was a DQ than fine. but the penalty is not a DQ. you have to look at it like speeding, your fine does not change if given a ticket if you speed intentionally or unintentionally. neither should penalties in golf. you can call it stupid, or call him a prima donna, all fine. But, there is a penalty fixed in the rule book, you cannot do anything other than that. unless you change the rule book.

 

I don't like spirit of the law arguments in sports. We have written rules for sporting events for a reason, to take out the emotion of it.

[OldTomMorris]

Interesting...

 

https://www.golfchan...ing-ball-phony/

[warfelg]

Not worth getting into what Jordan did. But point is guys use rules to their advantage all the time.

[bladehunter]

Gvogle-

 

And I agree. But th issue is the rule. Not phil. Phil plays within the rules as far as any evidence I know of

[Hardluckster]

In my opinion, Phil's claim that he knew it was a two shot penalty is complete trash. I think he simply lost his composure and had a complete brain freeze. I like Phil, but his explanation doesn't seem to make sense and I think it's untrue. Didn't Beef even comment that coming off the green Phil had said that he didn't know what the penalty would be?

 

I'm in the category of folks who think that this is rule needs to be changed so that future occurrences warrant a DQ.

[bladehunter]

So, I'm just going to put this out there: Would you rather see a guy do what Phil did out of frustration or would you rather have someone waste 30 minutes arguing with rules officials to get a beneficial drop like Jordan did?

I guess I prefer the one that is within the rules. For the record I laughed my a** off at what Phil did and also think he should have been dq'd.

 

if the rules stated that the penalty was a DQ than fine. but the penalty is not a DQ. you have to look at it like speeding, your fine does not change if given a ticket if you speed intentionally or unintentionally. neither should penalties in golf. you can call it stupid, or call him a prima donna, all fine. But, there is a penalty fixed in the rule book, you cannot do anything other than that. unless you change the rule book.

 

I don't like spirit of the law arguments in sports. We have written rules for sporting events for a reason, to take out the emotion of it.

 

Exactly. People are mad that phil uses every inch of a rule , of course he does. He’s phil. He does this in every aspect of life. I get that. And honestly respect it. Most people are afraid to do that. And it’s those who are mad at him now.