Mickelson hitting putt while ball was still moving?

[Redbird]

22 pages of virtue signaling....just awesome! :cheesy: :russian_roulette:

[North Texas]

22 pages of virtue signaling....just awesome! :cheesy: :russian_roulette:

 

Yep, if I didn't know better, I'd think this was a discussion board of some type where people talked about things in golf that interested them. Or something like that. :swoon:

[DK<80]

I think Phil broke the rules and should have been DQ'd. He knew exactly what he was doing and I lost some of the "newly found" respect I had for Phil.

[straightshot7]

The rule has been in existence for quite some time with no one to my knowledge intentionally violating it except for John Daly. I agree the rule isn't explicit enough to cover all potential abuses of it but not many rules of golf are. The rules of golf provide for the instance where a ball is deflected by a fellow competitor in rules 19-1 and 1-2 but you don't see guys intentionally deflect a 30' putt that's about to go in the hole from a fellow competitor even though the rules specify the situation and penalty.

 

IMO, golf is supposed to be play with a certain amount of integrity and the rules were written in a manner that assumes that integrity is present. When a guy like Phil does what he did, he erodes the level of integrity from the game and encourages others to do the same. Again I'm a big Phil fan but I'm disappointed with how he handled this situation.

 

Nah.... Have you ever been to a muni on a Saturday? Have you ever been at a private club where guys are sandbaggers and cheat their handicaps to make a buck? Phil did nothing wrong.

 

You can't compare weekend hacks at a muni or the 2% of actual sandbaggers in private clubs to the optics of what Phil did during a Major. A virtual Pandora's box has been opened where some golfers will feel empowered to use rules to their benefit that were not intended to be used in that way.

 

1. Golfers who know the rules already use them to benefit whenever possible

 

2. No Pandora's box has been opened. It's not like Phil made a par. He got a 10. I repeat, a 10. 6 over for one hole. +6. Worse than a quintuple bogey.

 

Good luck trying to find ways to use 2 stroke penalties to lower your score. It's going to backfire really quickly.

[TreyWingbat]

Phil should've dropped a sprinkler head on that green like he was doing left and right on the grounds in Mexico in 2017, and gotten relief for an easier putt. Then none of this would've happened.

[Sanders74]

Phil was pissed that they lost the golf course and he did what we would all like to do sometimes, He did it for a reason he lost his best shot at the US Open due to similar reasons

and no doubt he did it for a reason other than what he said to the media. He made 27K in winnings I bet it cost him more than that to play the event. He can do what ever he wants same as any of us we all have to live with our actions

every day. I wish he would not have done it as he is a roll model to many and that did not help him much in that category but hey we all make mistakes.

[Skifly150]

Phil said he hit the moving ball intentionally so it wouldn't get behind the bunker again. If he's that defiant, he should be DQ'd. That's cheating, plain and simple.

 

Why would that be cheating? He willingly accepted the two stroke penalty. If it were cheating then there would be a rule against it besides a two stroke penalty.

 

In the big scheme of things it doesn't really matter since he finished +17.

 

Because he broke rule 1-2. "A player is deemed to have committed a serious breach of Rule 1-2 if the Committee considers that the action taken in breach of this Rule has allowed him or another player to gain a significant advantage or has placed another player, other than his partner, at a significant disadvantage."

 

Phil admitted he stopped the ball because it was advantageous for him to do so, ie the ball was going past the hole and behind the bunker. Phil cheated to gain what he thought was a stroke or two. I am typically not a fan of the USGA, but they wimped out because of what has happened at 7 last time the US Open was here, the greens at Chambers Bay, penalizing DJ two years ago, and the low numbers last year.

 

Phil didn't stop the ball... he made a stroke at it... and that is important in this situation. Had he stopped or deflected to ball (toward an area of the green where it would stop on it's own for example), then I'd agree he'd be subject to 1-2.

 

 

Exceptions (to 1-2):

 

1. An action expressly permitted or expressly prohibited by another Rule is subject to that other Rule, not Rule 1-2.

 

14-5. Playing Moving Ball

 

 

A player must not make a stroke at his ball while it is moving.

 

I'm not sure the USGA could impose 1-2 if they wanted to...... it's pretty straightforward. Because 14-5 specifically prohibits what Phil did..... the exceptions to 1-2 say 1-2 cannot be applied.

 

Phil likes to think he's the smartest guy in the room..... in this case he took an action that cost him more than it should've. He could simply have declared the putt unplayable after it stopped behind the bunker are played it again with only 1 stroke penalty. (Don't tell me he thought this out and it was the 'best course of action,' I didn't believe him when he said it, or that he tried to explain his way out of it in that way). He actually cost himself 1 more stroke then he needed to and he is being dishonest about his intention. He really wanted to tell Mike Davis he screwed the pooch on the setup (he was right about this fact) and he never said it.

[new2g0lf]

The rule has been in existence for quite some time with no one to my knowledge intentionally violating it except for John Daly. I agree the rule isn't explicit enough to cover all potential abuses of it but not many rules of golf are. The rules of golf provide for the instance where a ball is deflected by a fellow competitor in rules 19-1 and 1-2 but you don't see guys intentionally deflect a 30' putt that's about to go in the hole from a fellow competitor even though the rules specify the situation and penalty.

 

IMO, golf is supposed to be play with a certain amount of integrity and the rules were written in a manner that assumes that integrity is present. When a guy like Phil does what he did, he erodes the level of integrity from the game and encourages others to do the same. Again I'm a big Phil fan but I'm disappointed with how he handled this situation.

 

Nah.... Have you ever been to a muni on a Saturday? Have you ever been at a private club where guys are sandbaggers and cheat their handicaps to make a buck? Phil did nothing wrong.

 

You can't compare weekend hacks at a muni or the 2% of actual sandbaggers in private clubs to the optics of what Phil did during a Major. A virtual Pandora's box has been opened where some golfers will feel empowered to use rules to their benefit that were not intended to be used in that way.

 

1. Golfers who know the rules already use them to benefit whenever possible

 

2. No Pandora's box has been opened. It's not like Phil made a par. He got a 10. I repeat, a 10. 6 over for one hole. +6. Worse than a quintuple bogey.

 

Good luck trying to find ways to use 2 stroke penalties to lower your score. It's going to backfire really quickly.

 

He likely would have scored higher if he let it roll down the hill and didn't take the resulting location as an unplayable lie.

[straightshot7]

The rule has been in existence for quite some time with no one to my knowledge intentionally violating it except for John Daly. I agree the rule isn't explicit enough to cover all potential abuses of it but not many rules of golf are. The rules of golf provide for the instance where a ball is deflected by a fellow competitor in rules 19-1 and 1-2 but you don't see guys intentionally deflect a 30' putt that's about to go in the hole from a fellow competitor even though the rules specify the situation and penalty.

 

IMO, golf is supposed to be play with a certain amount of integrity and the rules were written in a manner that assumes that integrity is present. When a guy like Phil does what he did, he erodes the level of integrity from the game and encourages others to do the same. Again I'm a big Phil fan but I'm disappointed with how he handled this situation.

 

Nah.... Have you ever been to a muni on a Saturday? Have you ever been at a private club where guys are sandbaggers and cheat their handicaps to make a buck? Phil did nothing wrong.

 

You can't compare weekend hacks at a muni or the 2% of actual sandbaggers in private clubs to the optics of what Phil did during a Major. A virtual Pandora's box has been opened where some golfers will feel empowered to use rules to their benefit that were not intended to be used in that way.

 

1. Golfers who know the rules already use them to benefit whenever possible

 

2. No Pandora's box has been opened. It's not like Phil made a par. He got a 10. I repeat, a 10. 6 over for one hole. +6. Worse than a quintuple bogey.

 

Good luck trying to find ways to use 2 stroke penalties to lower your score. It's going to backfire really quickly.

 

He likely would have scored higher if he let it roll down the hill and didn't take the resulting location as an unplayable lie.

 

Really, you think it would take Phil Mickelson 6+ shots to get the ball in the hole from within 25 yards of the green?

[bandrz]

If you are believing his story that he used this rule to his advantage, I don't know what to say. He was pissed, he's been affected by conditions at the tourney before, and it got to him. He should have just rolled with that. But, there are multiple people on record saying he had no idea what his score was on that hole including Beef Johnston, the standard bearer, and an official. He had no clue how that move was going to affect his score. He did to make a point, which was successful. B

[stanger37]

the dude has been accused of insider trading. who is surprised he is trying to manipulate the rule book to justify his actions?

[tarheelsfan105]

I "think" I see what you did there...and, if so, it is Great!

 

 

Sorry for the double post...I was referring to a post from back on page 11 about Jack's ball not going as far. Very unappreciated post!

[Barfolomew]

I'm just pissed he missed the shot. NOT a team sport do what the hell you want! If you're gonna play that shot wait till the ball is rollin towards you so you can line it up not run around it like a rook ha....we do it all the time on our steep fast practice green....but we make em lol

 

If he made it he would be KING!!!

[PGArox]

Man, I'll tell ya ... that Phil sure does move the needle. :)

[QuigleyDU]

I feel like this is way blown out of proportion for a number of reasons. 1. he was penalized according to the rules. 2. he didnt win (not that it really matters). 3. he was penalized according to the rules.

 

i get that someone intentionally breaking a rule in the sacred game of golf is a capital offense to many, but it is not to me. i think his explanation is bull, but that really doesnt change anything in my mind. He broke a rule and was penalized accordingly. move on.

[Fade to Black]

Wonder if it was average Joe whether the ruling would have been the same?

[tgreenwood11]

What ball wasn't moving on Saturday.

 

Let the local greens crew do their job, not a bunch of guys, as Dave Hill once said, with blue blazers and a bad case of dandruff.

[Skydiver22]

I feel like this is way blown out of proportion for a number of reasons. 1. he was penalized according to the rules. 2. he didnt win (not that it really matters). 3. he was penalized according to the rules.

 

i get that someone intentionally breaking a rule in the sacred game of golf is a capital offense to many, but it is not to me. i think his explanation is bull, but that really doesnt change anything in my mind. He broke a rule and was penalized accordingly. move on.

 

 

That's just it... He was not punished accordingly, he was coddled by the USGA. He had intent when he committed the infraction, and the infraction was egregious. He should have been DQ'd. He was allowed to collect 24 thousand dollars, that money should have gone back to the field.

[Shilgy]

Perhaps-he wished-this can be changed in time for the 2019 Rules revision.

 

In 2010 Juli Inkster was DQ'd for practice swings with a weighted donut on a club on the tee-during a 30 minute wait. Breaking that rule is now "just" a 2 stroke penalty.

 

Perhaps they can find a way to word this properly so that making a mockery of the intent of the game like this is a DQ. For those that think my wording is too strong because of the fact it is defined in the rule book as a two stroke penalty currently.....yeah, I get that the penalty was properly enforced based on the current rule. Perhaps because they thought no one but a John Daly type would perform such an act during a round of high level tournament golf. We all know the basic rules of the game and this act was not it.

[Grosse Gurke]

Much ado about nothing imo. He broke a rule in full view of everyone and was punished. It isnt like he "found" a ball hit OB like I have seen dozens of times in casual play. He wasnt trying to secretly subvert to rules of the game. An accidental infraction or something like Phil did doesnt bother me...its the guy that intentionally cheats AND doesnt take the penalty strokes is the guy that piss's me off.

 

And as far as using the rules....who doesnt? When a rule has different options...dont you take the one that is most advantageous? That is using the rules. When Tiger moved a boulder....was that really in the spirit of the loose impediment rule?

 

I do enjoy how worked up people get on these topics. I wish I was as righteous as some people on the web...lol.

[Shilgy]

 

Really, you think it would take Phil Mickelson 6+ shots to get the ball in the hole from within 25 yards of the green?

Not that bettering score is my concern with his actions but...shots 3, 4 and 5 left him as far way...or would have if he let it roll out as he was after two shots...then perhaps? look at the play by play. After two shots he was 35 yards from the green. Let that ball roll out and he would have still been about 35 yards from the pin. So in this case on this hole, it would likely have taken him six shots to traverse the 35 yards. So what-he broke even?

 

I could cut him some slack if he had said something along the lines of "I was sitting in my hotel last night and someone asked me about the Daly incident. I realized that 2 shot penalty is not stern enough for such a serious breach and was going to ask about it. Then what you saw happened and I thought hmm what better way to get the point across".

[straightshot7]

 

Really, you think it would take Phil Mickelson 6+ shots to get the ball in the hole from within 25 yards of the green?

Not that bettering score is my concern with his actions but...shots 3, 4 and 5 left him as far way...or would have if he let it roll out as he was after two shots...then perhaps? look at the play by play. After two shots he was 35 yards from the green. Let that ball roll out and he would have still been about 35 yards from the pin. So in this case on this hole, it would likely have taken him six shots to traverse the 35 yards. So what-he broke even?

 

I could cut him some slack if he had said something along the lines of "I was sitting in my hotel last night and someone asked me about the Daly incident. I realized that 2 shot penalty is not stern enough for such a serious breach and was going to ask about it. Then what you saw happened and I thought hmm what better way to get the point across".

 

He would have to absolutely butcher it to make an 11 or worse.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't see how it's "likely".

[heavy_hitter]

The rule has been in existence for quite some time with no one to my knowledge intentionally violating it except for John Daly. I agree the rule isn't explicit enough to cover all potential abuses of it but not many rules of golf are. The rules of golf provide for the instance where a ball is deflected by a fellow competitor in rules 19-1 and 1-2 but you don't see guys intentionally deflect a 30' putt that's about to go in the hole from a fellow competitor even though the rules specify the situation and penalty.

 

IMO, golf is supposed to be play with a certain amount of integrity and the rules were written in a manner that assumes that integrity is present. When a guy like Phil does what he did, he erodes the level of integrity from the game and encourages others to do the same. Again I'm a big Phil fan but I'm disappointed with how he handled this situation.

 

Nah.... Have you ever been to a muni on a Saturday? Have you ever been at a private club where guys are sandbaggers and cheat their handicaps to make a buck? Phil did nothing wrong.

 

You can't compare weekend hacks at a muni or the 2% of actual sandbaggers in private clubs to the optics of what Phil did during a Major. A virtual Pandora's box has been opened where some golfers will feel empowered to use rules to their benefit that were not intended to be used in that way.

 

Rules are meant to help players, not punish them. All tournament golfers use the rules to their favor. Have you ever played tournament golf? Geesh. Pandora's box has not been open.

[heavy_hitter]

Still trying to figure out how he was making a mockery of the game. He was making a mockery of the USGA which is well deserved.

[bscinstnct]

Much ado about nothing imo. He broke a rule in full view of everyone and was punished. It isnt like he "found" a ball hit OB like I have seen dozens of times in casual play. He wasnt trying to secretly subvert to rules of the game. An accidental infraction or something like Phil did doesnt bother me...its the guy that intentionally cheats AND doesnt take the penalty strokes is the guy that piss's me off.

 

And as far as using the rules....who doesnt? When a rule has different options...dont you take the one that is most advantageous? That is using the rules. When Tiger moved a boulder....was that really in the spirit of the loose impediment rule?

 

I do enjoy how worked up people get on these topics. I wish I was as righteous as some people on the web...lol.

 

 

 

 

This boulder?

 

 

 

Maybe they could put a plaque on the 13th green at Shinny to commemorate Phil too ; )

[North Texas]

Still trying to figure out how he was making a mockery of the game. He was making a mockery of the USGA which is well deserved.

 

It's obvious that you don't see the problem with hitting a ball while it was still in motion that other people do.

Who is running the tournament has nothing to do with whether or not Phil's actions was classless and made a mockery of the game.

Check out the quotes from Amy afterwards. She knew he was wrong and all but said Phil knew he was wrong.

[NoFancyUsername.]

Phil is Phil. He can be an arsehole at times just like the rest of us. For whatever reason he did it, I personally think he wasn't up to it from day one, the USGA should have dealt with it...DQ. So now that's over, let's move on to the real test of golf...The Open ;)

[baudi]

It is not about the rules. Instead of whining about the course (which only lasts a day) Phil made his mark and wrote history. Thanks and well done Sir!

[lowheel]

the dude has been accused of insider trading. who is surprised he is trying to manipulate the rule book to justify his actions?

 

Now do tiger and his "cough" illegal outside golf activities....

[RoryGenius]

And as far as using the rules....who doesnt? When a rule has different options...dont you take the one that is most advantageous? That is using the rules. When Tiger moved a boulder....was that really in the spirit of the loose impediment rule?

 

I do enjoy how worked up people get on these topics. I wish I was as righteous as some people on the web...lol.

I find it amusing that those who criticize others for getting worked up, are themselves sufficiently worked up to bother replying on a public forum. Especially on a subject like the rules of golf which they clearly have no interest in!