2019 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[mws92]

> @Rohlio said:

> > @mws92 said:

> > > @Rohlio said:

> > > > @mws92 said:

> > > > Do they sell yardage books at Southern Dunes or have a yardage card in the carts?

> > >

> > > GPS in carts... I rember they used to have yardage books. I can ask tomorrow morning when I am down there.

> >

> > Thanks that would be helpful. I’m playing in the AZ Open and it’s been a while since I’ve played there. Not sure if I will make it for practice round.

>

> Ugh sorry man I forgot to ask.

>

> Update on the greens. Small tines and sanding yesterday. You can see they are starting to recover, but have a long way to go. Probably 3 weeks out.

>

> Sand needed to be tilled, but the rest of course is great.

 

That's ok I will call and ask .. glad they are trying to get them to heel now.

[Rohlio]

> @mws92 said:

> > @Rohlio said:

> > > @mws92 said:

> > > > @Rohlio said:

> > > > > @mws92 said:

> > > > > Do they sell yardage books at Southern Dunes or have a yardage card in the carts?

> > > >

> > > > GPS in carts... I rember they used to have yardage books. I can ask tomorrow morning when I am down there.

> > >

> > > Thanks that would be helpful. I’m playing in the AZ Open and it’s been a while since I’ve played there. Not sure if I will make it for practice round.

> >

> > Ugh sorry man I forgot to ask.

> >

> > Update on the greens. Small tines and sanding yesterday. You can see they are starting to recover, but have a long way to go. Probably 3 weeks out.

> >

> > Sand needed to be tilled, but the rest of course is great.

>

> That's ok I will call and ask .. glad they are trying to get them to heel now.

They are handling it right... They sent me an email when I booked and again the day prior indicating that the greens are in bad shape and advising of no fee cancellations if I desired.

 

[AzSuperHack76]

Verrado Founders this morning. Absolute dog crap conditions. Front 9 is closed due to the greens dying . Back 9 greens are also terrible shape. It’s a joke that they are open at all.

 

Stay away. Victory is in perfect shape though, we just picked the wrong course. Would have been nice to have a heads up from the staff at Founders.

[Bonneville85308]

Legend Trail early this morning. First time I ever played it. I really enjoyed the layout and already booked another tee time in a few days. Fairways and rough were pretty lush but not saturated, no mudballs. A couple of very small burnt areas in the fairways on a few holes but nothing to complain about. Greens were recovering well from aeriation, slightly shaggy but the ball generally rolled smooth.

Finished in 3.5 hours as a threesome behind a fast foursome (regulars, the regular in our group told me), best part of it all. Though it may have been luck of the tee time draw as we never saw the group behind us again after the first hole.

For the good conditions and what they are charging on their "last minute special" rates on the website right now, it's a steal.

 

 

[cbbaron]

> @Bonneville85308 said:

> Legend Trail early this morning. First time I ever played it. I really enjoyed the layout and already booked another tee time in a few days. Fairways and rough were pretty lush but not saturated, no mudballs. A couple of very small burnt areas in the fairways on a few holes but nothing to complain about. Greens were recovering well from aeriation, slightly shaggy but the ball generally rolled smooth.

> Finished in 3.5 hours as a threesome behind a fast foursome (regulars, the regular in our group told me), best part of it all. Though it may have been luck of the tee time draw as we never saw the group behind us again after the first hole.

> For the good conditions and what they are charging on their "last minute special" rates on the website right now, it's a steal.

>

>

Legend Trail is solid course very underrated

[OspreyCI]

> @OspreyCI said:

> Anyone play Eagle Mountain lately?

 

Played Eagle Mountain today at noon. $37 and played by myself until I met up with a guy on 14. First time there. I really like the layout and the fairways sure make the game a little easier.

 

Conditions were ok. Browning in some fairways and greens were slow, but not very bumpy. They punch next week. Bunkers looked so so, but never got in one. I’ll definitely go back. The guy on the pro shop was very nice and helpful. Lunch was really good too.

[DrSchteeve]

> @mws92 said:

> Do they sell yardage books at Southern Dunes or have a yardage card in the carts?

 

> @cbbaron said:

> > @Bonneville85308 said:

> > Legend Trail early this morning. First time I ever played it. I really enjoyed the layout and already booked another tee time in a few days. Fairways and rough were pretty lush but not saturated, no mudballs. A couple of very small burnt areas in the fairways on a few holes but nothing to complain about. Greens were recovering well from aeriation, slightly shaggy but the ball generally rolled smooth.

> > Finished in 3.5 hours as a threesome behind a fast foursome (regulars, the regular in our group told me), best part of it all. Though it may have been luck of the tee time draw as we never saw the group behind us again after the first hole.

> > For the good conditions and what they are charging on their "last minute special" rates on the website right now, it's a steal.

> >

> >

> Legend Trail is solid course very underrated

Definitely a solid layout. They punched late June so conditions should hold until September, and they are pretty good now, especially compared to what's being reported a lot of places (most sadly, Southern Dunes). Pace is usually decent even in the mornings. $35 or so.

[Bonneville85308]

Moon Valley CC is now putting public times on golfnow in the afternoons, but if you call and book directly they will give you a cheaper rate without the GN fees (I paid $29+tax direct). I played it twilight last week. Fairways were in pretty beat up/burnt out shape particularly on the front. Greens were rolling smooth, very firm and fast with a lot of breaks greater than they looked. Bunker sand is all new and is the bright white stuff like TPC Scottsdale. Lots of tree junk - leaves, twigs, branches, etc. - laying in the rough that I'm guessing they don't have the staff to clean up in summer.

Worth trying at least once if you've never played it and are curious about the layout. A decent parkland style layout, nothing too memorable, nothing too offensive except maybe #17, IMO. A few greens with some interesting shapes that play tough when they are as firm as they are now. A very walkable layout, I saw a couple guys with pushcarts in the 100+ degree heat.

Frankly I expected it to be in better condition, since their water problems have supposedly been solved with the new pipeline. It's the closest private club to my house, but I'm not sure it's where I'd enjoy playing substantially all of my 100+ annual rounds. And if I'm paying dues year round, I don't want public players on the course in the summer.

 

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

Verde river fri morning. Very good conditions and pace

[DrSchteeve]

Longbow is punching tomorrow and Tuesday. Probably 2-4 weeks to heal, they are in very good condition right now. Traps are, however, in poor usual AZ form, thin layer of sand then concrete, not all, but most. The fast and firm conditions are a lot of fun, if that's your idea of fun (it is for me).

[DrSchteeve]

Pinnacle today, Monday, July 8, teed off at 11:35. The good: conditions good all around, greens just top dressed with sand so putting speed was a little inconsistent, but still smooth. The bad and ugly was a 4:45 round, waited virtually every shot, told by the ranger that the pro went out to talk with the slow group holding up the field, but made no difference and the pro was unwilling to move the group or bring them in and refund. Another Troon course (like Southern Dunes) where the "time par" is 4:24, so they tell you that you were only 20 minutes off pace.

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

I see no reason a round of golf should ever take more than 4 hours. In Mackenzie’s spirit of st Andrews he talks about 100 years a match took 2 to 3 hours

[jatrain]

SunRidge Canyon yesterday. C+ conditions. Fairways were pretty firm with some random wet spots in them. Landing areas were pretty beat/burnt up. Green putted well but were a little on the slow side. Good pace at just over 3 hours. They are really proud of their “Wicked Six”.

[Shilgy]

Quintero today. I know they get a lot of crap on the forum but the course was in fantastic shape.

[Shilgy]

> @BUCKEYERBALL88 said:

> I see no reason a round of golf should ever take more than 4 hours. In Mackenzie’s spirit of st Andrews he talks about 100 years a match took 2 to 3 hours

 

Key is it was a match. Usually one on one but sometimes two vs two. Soon as the hole was decided they moved on rather than worrying about everyone holing out on every hole

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

Good point. I play more match play than the typical American. It’s fun switching it up (don’t keep score, skins, stableford, 1/2 set...) from stroke play and just worrying about your score. I find southern dunes and saguaro much more interesting as match play courses than stroke play

[Rohlio]

Most golf should be played match play/ our obsession with stroke play and the construction of our current handicap system really slows down the game and saps a lot of fun out of it in my opinion.

[DrSchteeve]

Right on with the US vs. non-US/Europe golf philosophies. Other threads have some discussion about the way golf is played here vs. Europe, as in Europe they apparently play a lot of alternate stroke play. And of course, they average 3-4 hour rounds and are mystified by our 4-5 hour rounds.

[Rohlio]

> @DrSchteeve said:

> Right on with the US vs. non-US/Europe golf philosophies. Other threads have some discussion about the way golf is played here vs. Europe, as in Europe they apparently play a lot of alternate stroke play. And of course, they average 3-4 hour rounds and are mystified by our 4-5 hour rounds.

 

I have never had a round over 4 hours when playing in Europe.

[az2au]

> @Rohlio said:

> > @DrSchteeve said:

> > Right on with the US vs. non-US/Europe golf philosophies. Other threads have some discussion about the way golf is played here vs. Europe, as in Europe they apparently play a lot of alternate stroke play. And of course, they average 3-4 hour rounds and are mystified by our 4-5 hour rounds.

>

> I have never had a round over 4 hours when playing in Europe.

Unfortunately I have on multiple occasions but I'm a few hundred rounds into playing over there so my ability to witness it is higher. And I don't mean because there were Americans on the course. I'm talking, in Scotland, following Scots and in Ireland, following Irish.

 

 

[Rohlio]

> @az2au said:

> > @Rohlio said:

> > > @DrSchteeve said:

> > > Right on with the US vs. non-US/Europe golf philosophies. Other threads have some discussion about the way golf is played here vs. Europe, as in Europe they apparently play a lot of alternate stroke play. And of course, they average 3-4 hour rounds and are mystified by our 4-5 hour rounds.

> >

> > I have never had a round over 4 hours when playing in Europe.

> Unfortunately I have on multiple occasions but I'm a few hundred rounds into playing over there so my ability to witness it is higher. And I don't mean because there were Americans on the course. I'm talking, in Scotland, following Scots and in Ireland, following Irish.

>

>

 

Yes my 20ish rounds is an admittedly smaller sample. Would you agree that the average pace of play is faster (and leave desert forest out if the comparison ;) )

[az2au]

> @Rohlio said:

> > @az2au said:

> > > @Rohlio said:

> > > > @DrSchteeve said:

> > > > Right on with the US vs. non-US/Europe golf philosophies. Other threads have some discussion about the way golf is played here vs. Europe, as in Europe they apparently play a lot of alternate stroke play. And of course, they average 3-4 hour rounds and are mystified by our 4-5 hour rounds.

> > >

> > > I have never had a round over 4 hours when playing in Europe.

> > Unfortunately I have on multiple occasions but I'm a few hundred rounds into playing over there so my ability to witness it is higher. And I don't mean because there were Americans on the course. I'm talking, in Scotland, following Scots and in Ireland, following Irish.

> >

> >

>

> Yes my 20ish rounds is an admittedly smaller sample. Would you agree that the average pace of play is faster (and leave desert forest out if the comparison ;) )

 

Oh, no doubt, play is generally much faster over there than the vast majority of the US. I'd say 3.5 is probably normal on most courses when there aren't a ton of visitors.

[Rohlio]

> @az2au said:

> > @Rohlio said:

> > > @az2au said:

> > > > @Rohlio said:

> > > > > @DrSchteeve said:

> > > > > Right on with the US vs. non-US/Europe golf philosophies. Other threads have some discussion about the way golf is played here vs. Europe, as in Europe they apparently play a lot of alternate stroke play. And of course, they average 3-4 hour rounds and are mystified by our 4-5 hour rounds.

> > > >

> > > > I have never had a round over 4 hours when playing in Europe.

> > > Unfortunately I have on multiple occasions but I'm a few hundred rounds into playing over there so my ability to witness it is higher. And I don't mean because there were Americans on the course. I'm talking, in Scotland, following Scots and in Ireland, following Irish.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Yes my 20ish rounds is an admittedly smaller sample. Would you agree that the average pace of play is faster (and leave desert forest out if the comparison ;) )

>

> Oh, no doubt, play is generally much faster over there than the vast majority of the US. I'd say 3.5 is probably normal on most courses when there aren't a ton of visitors.

 

That mirrors my experience.

[DrSchteeve]

Boulders North in very good shape. A few browned out spots on fairways, greens near perfect, everything else good. A bit pricey at $60. Still not

my favorite layout - a few holes feel constrained and a lot of overbunkering, though they have filled in quite a few.

[Bonneville85308]

Copper Canyon this morning. Played the Vista and Lake nines, Mountain was closed for maintenance.

Greens were beautiful. Probably the best I've seen locally in the last two months. Smooth, receptive, fair speed, not a visual blemish to be seen anywhere. Fairways and tees great, bunkers average.

Paid $39+ tax, played with 3 nice regulars who live in the community and finished in just under 4 hours despite the course being pretty much full ahead of us.

The only hole I didn't care for was #8 on Lake. This is a par 4 that apparently was built recently as part of the new third Mountain nine, then they changed the routing to make it part of Lake. Basically any tee shot that a mid/high handicap player who fades or slices hits is going to end up unplayable or unplayable without damaging a club in the rocks down in a ditch on the right, even if the ball lands in the fairway. Just seems like there was plenty of room to make a better hole on this part of the property.

The course is way the heck out in the middle of nowhere, but I already had to go to Surprise for some personal business after the round, and the ~ 12 miles where Bell Road turns into a rural desert highway goes fast. I'd definitely play it again.

[DrSchteeve]

Moon Valley. Perfect location for Caddyshack, because this is Bushwood Country Club. And I mean that in only the most complimentary ways, except the parts that aren’t complimentary. Best way I can put it is pretty bad conditions that were pretty playable. Greens bumpy. New sand is nice, but looks out of place. Fairways are as much burnt as grass. Liked the layout and good country club service and ambiance. But if there was ever a place to wear plaid pants this is it.

[az2au]

> @DrSchteeve said:

> Moon Valley. Perfect location for Caddyshack, because this is Bushwood Country Club. And I mean that in only the most complimentary ways, except the parts that aren’t complimentary. Best way I can put it is pretty bad conditions that were pretty playable. Greens bumpy. New sand is nice, but looks out of place. Fairways are as much burnt as grass. Liked the layout and good country club service and ambiance. But if there was ever a place to wear plaid pants this is it.

I've played in several member/guest type events there as one of my best friends is a long time member that grew up playing there and you nailed it. The atmosphere can get a bit out of control even in a one day event but I'll say that I've had a good time every single time I've played in those and the people have always been awesome to play with.

[Rohlio]

Moon valley is a shame... It could be such a great club.

[Shilgy]

> @Rohlio said:

> Moon valley is a shame... It could be such a great club.

 

Change "could be" to" was. It was a great club when Ping owned it.

[El_Nino_AZ]

What's up, fellas? Newbie to the forum. Gilbert, AZ local. Played Gold Canyon Dinosaur Mountain on 7/11. They are getting ready to shut down the Dinosaur Mountain course on 7/22 for maintenance.

 

Course was in decent shape. There were some aeration holes in the fairways and near the green. I had to move my ball out of several holes. Greens were not burned out or patchy, but were not rolling smooth. Had several putts that were very bouncy, one ball got airborne. Kind of a gimmicky/tourist course. Beautiful views of the Superstition Mountains from the tee boxes but inconsistent grain on the greens and it seems like the course brushes it off as the courses "defense" to make up for the lack of distance. I noticed the course has removed the total distance from the scorecards...found that odd. My guess would be to speed up play for the tourists who are not familiar with some of the blind tee shots. Course lists suggested handicaps for which tees to play. Course was wide open, teed off at 9:50, let a twosome and a single play through. Played in under 4 hours. $50 felt like that could be lowered due to the time of year and lack of play. Not a fan of three Par 3's per side, kind of the gimmicky resort type of course I referred to. Overall for July, not bad.