Yet another penalty around new rules error

[Augster]

The Fowler drop floors me. The rule has been in place for 2 months. He's already played tourneys this year under the new drop rules. In reality, I blame his caddie more than him for the mess up. Where was he? Seeing your player drop from shoulder height when every other drop you've seen this year has been knee height, and a point of emphasis, and you don't notice the breach? What is he being paid for? To carry clubs? How could both of them not notice? It's perplexing.

 

It really shouldn't be - it's actually very predictable and I"m surprised it hasn't happened more. Human beings are creatures of habit. Any habit ingrained for a lifetime is going to take more than a few repetitions of a new pattern to change - particularly when that act has been a very trivial part of the game and the mind is usually busy on weightier things when they do it.

 

Same applies to the the routine of the player and caddie around the ball during a pre-shot routine. You can't just say "just don't do it anymore" and expect it to be easy or that simple when you're talking about something they've been doing habitually (without conscious thought) for years or even decades in the case of many of the caddies on tour. Sorry but two months is a blink of the eye in that context.

 

Sure, the mindsets will eventually change and patterns will be relearned and these things will no longer be an issue, but to think it should happen overnight w/o incidents is a bit unrealistic.

 

And for Rickie's drop, it wasn't the Caddie's fault either. Rickie did the drop so fast, the caddie was still putting the sleeve of balls (he got the new ball from) back in the bag and didn't have any time to look up.

Absolutely agree. When your mind is on other things, the routine habit well ingrained surfaces. Match play last week, old farts scratch pennants, close, good quality match and at one point with a cart path drop I'm absent mindedly standing there with my arm straight out at shoulder height and my opponent goes "whoa there Ned, we're at knee height now". I'd like to think my brain was going to get there before letting it go, but......

It's easy to understand making a mistake like this out of habit. It's not so easy to understand the impulse to blame someone else for your mistake . . . unless that's your habit too.

 

AND, I’m guessing, this isn’t your job. You’re not getting paid to play golf. And I’d bet you don’t have a caddie with you.

 

I’d call them “amateur mistakes”. Which is totally acceptable for an amateur. A pro, where a 1SP at the top of the pay scale can cost them a few $100,000, should probably corrected this behavior.

[LeoLeo99]

The Fowler drop floors me. The rule has been in place for 2 months. He's already played tourneys this year under the new drop rules. In reality, I blame his caddie more than him for the mess up. Where was he? Seeing your player drop from shoulder height when every other drop you've seen this year has been knee height, and a point of emphasis, and you don't notice the breach? What is he being paid for? To carry clubs? How could both of them not notice? It's perplexing.

 

It really shouldn't be - it's actually very predictable and I"m surprised it hasn't happened more. Human beings are creatures of habit. Any habit ingrained for a lifetime is going to take more than a few repetitions of a new pattern to change - particularly when that act has been a very trivial part of the game and the mind is usually busy on weightier things when they do it.

 

Same applies to the the routine of the player and caddie around the ball during a pre-shot routine. You can't just say "just don't do it anymore" and expect it to be easy or that simple when you're talking about something they've been doing habitually (without conscious thought) for years or even decades in the case of many of the caddies on tour. Sorry but two months is a blink of the eye in that context.

 

Sure, the mindsets will eventually change and patterns will be relearned and these things will no longer be an issue, but to think it should happen overnight w/o incidents is a bit unrealistic.

 

And for Rickie's drop, it wasn't the Caddie's fault either. Rickie did the drop so fast, the caddie was still putting the sleeve of balls (he got the new ball from) back in the bag and didn't have any time to look up.

Absolutely agree. When your mind is on other things, the routine habit well ingrained surfaces. Match play last week, old farts scratch pennants, close, good quality match and at one point with a cart path drop I'm absent mindedly standing there with my arm straight out at shoulder height and my opponent goes "whoa there Ned, we're at knee height now". I'd like to think my brain was going to get there before letting it go, but......

It's easy to understand making a mistake like this out of habit. It's not so easy to understand the impulse to blame someone else for your mistake . . . unless that's your habit too.

 

AND, I’m guessing, this isn’t your job. You’re not getting paid to play golf. And I’d bet you don’t have a caddie with you.

 

I’d call them “amateur mistakes”. Which is totally acceptable for an amateur. A pro, where a 1SP at the top of the pay scale can cost them a few $100,000, should probably corrected this behavior.

 

They're only human.

[Stuart_G]

I'd call them "amateur mistakes". Which is totally acceptable for an amateur. A pro, where a 1SP at the top of the pay scale can cost them a few $100,000, should probably corrected this behavior.

 

I think a better term is 'beginners' mistake. And the pro's are no less a beginner when it comes to the changes than anyone else.

 

True, the consequences are more severe - which means a greater incentive. But that doesn't mean relearning the behavior is any easier for them. In fact, I'd argue that it's actually harder for them since they've spent WAY more time ingraining the previously acceptable behavioral patterns than any amateur has. On top of that, the mental effort and energy that goes into the other aspects of playing is much higher than any amateur - so the potential distractions are much higher and the 'available' rmental effort to make such a change is reduced when compared to the casual golfer.

[GoGoErky]

I'd call them "amateur mistakes". Which is totally acceptable for an amateur. A pro, where a 1SP at the top of the pay scale can cost them a few $100,000, should probably corrected this behavior.

 

I think a better term is 'beginners' mistake. And the pro's are no less a beginner when it comes to the changes than anyone else.

 

True, the consequences are more severe - which means a greater incentive. But that doesn't mean relearning the behavior is any easier for them. In fact, I'd argue that it's actually harder for them since they've spent WAY more time ingraining the previously acceptable behavioral patterns than any amateur has. On top of that, the mental effort and energy that goes into the other aspects of playing is much higher than any amateur - so the potential distractions are much higher and the 'available' rmental effort to make such a change is reduced when compared to the casual golfer.

 

Both caddies and players have had a few months prior to the TOC to read and learn the rules plus 2 months of plaingvubder them. Considering their livelihoods are dependent on how they finish an event one would thing they would be beyond “beginner” mentality with the rules.

 

 

[Stuart_G]

I think a better term is 'beginners' mistake. And the pro's are no less a beginner when it comes to the changes than anyone else.

 

True, the consequences are more severe - which means a greater incentive. But that doesn't mean relearning the behavior is any easier for them. In fact, I'd argue that it's actually harder for them since they've spent WAY more time ingraining the previously acceptable behavioral patterns than any amateur has. On top of that, the mental effort and energy that goes into the other aspects of playing is much higher than any amateur - so the potential distractions are much higher and the 'available' rmental effort to make such a change is reduced when compared to the casual golfer.

 

Both caddies and players have had a few months prior to the TOC to read and learn the rules plus 2 months of plaingvubder them. Considering their livelihoods are dependent on how they finish an event one would thing they would be beyond "beginner" mentality with the rules.

 

The term "beginner" your referencing has nothing to do with mentality. It's only about exposure time and actual level of experience.

 

It takes a lot more to change behavior than just reading a book and wanting to change. If it were that simple, everyone would have perfect success with all their New Year's resolutions.

[davep043]

I think a better term is 'beginners' mistake. And the pro's are no less a beginner when it comes to the changes than anyone else.

 

True, the consequences are more severe - which means a greater incentive. But that doesn't mean relearning the behavior is any easier for them. In fact, I'd argue that it's actually harder for them since they've spent WAY more time ingraining the previously acceptable behavioral patterns than any amateur has. On top of that, the mental effort and energy that goes into the other aspects of playing is much higher than any amateur - so the potential distractions are much higher and the 'available' rmental effort to make such a change is reduced when compared to the casual golfer.

 

Both caddies and players have had a few months prior to the TOC to read and learn the rules plus 2 months of plaingvubder them. Considering their livelihoods are dependent on how they finish an event one would thing they would be beyond "beginner" mentality with the rules.

 

The term "beginner" your referencing has nothing to do with mentality. It's only about exposure time and actual level of experience.

 

It takes a lot more to change behavior than just reading a book and wanting to change. If it were that simple, everyone would have perfect success with all their New Year's resolutions.

I was watching Morning Drive today, and they mentioned that at least one college coach has his players PRACTICE dropping the right way. They said its a shame that the PGA Tour players don't have someone who can actually force them to do the same thing, that the Tour pros would have a lot fewer rules issues if they actually DID.

[nsxguy]

I think a better term is 'beginners' mistake. And the pro's are no less a beginner when it comes to the changes than anyone else.

 

True, the consequences are more severe - which means a greater incentive. But that doesn't mean relearning the behavior is any easier for them. In fact, I'd argue that it's actually harder for them since they've spent WAY more time ingraining the previously acceptable behavioral patterns than any amateur has. On top of that, the mental effort and energy that goes into the other aspects of playing is much higher than any amateur - so the potential distractions are much higher and the 'available' rmental effort to make such a change is reduced when compared to the casual golfer.

 

Both caddies and players have had a few months prior to the TOC to read and learn the rules plus 2 months of plaingvubder them. Considering their livelihoods are dependent on how they finish an event one would thing they would be beyond "beginner" mentality with the rules.

 

The term "beginner" your referencing has nothing to do with mentality. It's only about exposure time and actual level of experience.

 

It takes a lot more to change behavior than just reading a book and wanting to change. If it were that simple, everyone would have perfect success with all their New Year's resolutions.

 

Sorry Stuart but I disagree. This isn't about changing one's "behavior" (as such). One doesn't forget their NY's resolution. They simply can't stick to it. And most NY's resolutions are personal in nature, not business related.

 

These guys a playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's their livelihood. And these Rules causing all the kerfuffle are extremely simple to understand and it's not just the one person. There are two of them. One of the 2 has to remember.

 

Or maybe they're making so much money they can't be bothered ?

[davep043]

I think a better term is 'beginners' mistake. And the pro's are no less a beginner when it comes to the changes than anyone else.

 

True, the consequences are more severe - which means a greater incentive. But that doesn't mean relearning the behavior is any easier for them. In fact, I'd argue that it's actually harder for them since they've spent WAY more time ingraining the previously acceptable behavioral patterns than any amateur has. On top of that, the mental effort and energy that goes into the other aspects of playing is much higher than any amateur - so the potential distractions are much higher and the 'available' rmental effort to make such a change is reduced when compared to the casual golfer.

 

Both caddies and players have had a few months prior to the TOC to read and learn the rules plus 2 months of plaingvubder them. Considering their livelihoods are dependent on how they finish an event one would thing they would be beyond "beginner" mentality with the rules.

 

The term "beginner" your referencing has nothing to do with mentality. It's only about exposure time and actual level of experience.

 

It takes a lot more to change behavior than just reading a book and wanting to change. If it were that simple, everyone would have perfect success with all their New Year's resolutions.

 

Sorry Stuart but I disagree. This isn't about changing one's "behavior" (as such). One doesn't forget their NY's resolution. They simply can't stick to it. And most NY's resolutions are personal in nature, not business related.

 

These guys a playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's their livelihood. And these Rules causing all the kerfuffle are extremely simple to understand and it's not just the one person. There are two of them. One of the 2 has to remember.

 

Or maybe they're making so much money they can't be bothered ?

Or they just screw up. That's what really happened, but only twice that we've heard much about, out of tens of thousands of holes played. And Schenk, to his credit, says the rules are fine, everyone has to play by them, and unfortunately he didn't. It would be a complete non-issue but for the stink JT made, and he wasn't even involved.

[nsxguy]

The Fowler drop floors me. The rule has been in place for 2 months. He's already played tourneys this year under the new drop rules. In reality, I blame his caddie more than him for the mess up. Where was he? Seeing your player drop from shoulder height when every other drop you've seen this year has been knee height, and a point of emphasis, and you don't notice the breach? What is he being paid for? To carry clubs? How could both of them not notice? It's perplexing.

 

Agreed though possibly the caddie didn't know what Rickie'd done.

 

Someone else pointed out he wasn't looking, but when he looked up Rickie was still upright and his arm was about waist high. So I guess the caddie *might* have heard to ball hit and though it sounded kinda loud. Might've been suspicious about Rickie's posture and arm. Would've been a really good catch had the caddie caught it but close call there.

 

 

 

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/2019-wgc-mexico-rickie-fowler-round-2-takes-bad-drop

[nsxguy]

I think a better term is 'beginners' mistake. And the pro's are no less a beginner when it comes to the changes than anyone else.

 

True, the consequences are more severe - which means a greater incentive. But that doesn't mean relearning the behavior is any easier for them. In fact, I'd argue that it's actually harder for them since they've spent WAY more time ingraining the previously acceptable behavioral patterns than any amateur has. On top of that, the mental effort and energy that goes into the other aspects of playing is much higher than any amateur - so the potential distractions are much higher and the 'available' rmental effort to make such a change is reduced when compared to the casual golfer.

 

Both caddies and players have had a few months prior to the TOC to read and learn the rules plus 2 months of plaingvubder them. Considering their livelihoods are dependent on how they finish an event one would thing they would be beyond "beginner" mentality with the rules.

 

The term "beginner" your referencing has nothing to do with mentality. It's only about exposure time and actual level of experience.

 

It takes a lot more to change behavior than just reading a book and wanting to change. If it were that simple, everyone would have perfect success with all their New Year's resolutions.

 

Sorry Stuart but I disagree. This isn't about changing one's "behavior" (as such). One doesn't forget their NY's resolution. They simply can't stick to it. And most NY's resolutions are personal in nature, not business related.

 

These guys a playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's their livelihood. And these Rules causing all the kerfuffle are extremely simple to understand and it's not just the one person. There are two of them. One of the 2 has to remember.

 

Or maybe they're making so much money they can't be bothered ?

Or they just screw up. That's what really happened, but only twice that we've heard much about, out of tens of thousands of holes played. And Schenk, to his credit, says the rules are fine, everyone has to play by them, and unfortunately he didn't. It would be a complete non-issue but for the stink JT made, and he wasn't even involved.

 

Maybe Justin Thomas and Gillis are friends ? :D

[Stuart_G]

Sorry Stuart but I disagree. This isn't about changing one's "behavior" (as such). One doesn't forget their NY's resolution. They simply can't stick to it. And most NY's resolutions are personal in nature, not business related.

 

I don't mind people disagreeing with me.

 

But yes, it really is about behavior. It's about doing something over and over again so frequently that you don't have to put any mental effort into it - and then suddenly having to do it differently takes effort in a situation where no effort has been needed in the past.

 

All lumped into the category of "easier said than done". And anyone who thinks otherwise is really just as (pardon the bluntness) narrow minded as the individuals writing off the changes as 'stupid' because of those mistakes. Two opposite extremes for the same issue - neither views of which are helpful in any way to help things improve in the future.

[Augster]

The Fowler drop floors me. The rule has been in place for 2 months. He's already played tourneys this year under the new drop rules. In reality, I blame his caddie more than him for the mess up. Where was he? Seeing your player drop from shoulder height when every other drop you've seen this year has been knee height, and a point of emphasis, and you don't notice the breach? What is he being paid for? To carry clubs? How could both of them not notice? It's perplexing.

 

Agreed though possibly the caddie didn't know what Rickie'd done.

 

Someone else pointed out he wasn't looking, but when he looked up Rickie was still upright and his arm was about waist high. So I guess the caddie *might* have heard to ball hit and though it sounded kinda loud. Might've been suspicious about Rickie's posture and arm. Would've been a really good catch had the caddie caught it but close call there.

 

 

 

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/2019-wgc-mexico-rickie-fowler-round-2-takes-bad-drop

 

Thanks for that video. His caddy is standing RIGHT THERE. Perhaps he should have been paying attention while his player was doing something that is a point of emphasis this year. His caddy knew he was going to drop. Watching the drop and saying, “That doesn’t look right” should be part of his job description.

 

Moreover, another player’s ball is right next to Rickie. Where is he and his caddie?

 

I get that a player can have a “brain fart” and drop the old way. I did it in my first round. Let me emphasize FIRST round. I also corrected my error. Rickie has a lot on his mind at that point after hitting one OB. He’s distracted and trying to figure how to get one in play. Excuses really.

 

But the other guys? We always hear about how well-liked Rickie is on tour. I’d say, apparently not. I mean, the camera man could have said something and didn’t.

[nsxguy]

Sorry Stuart but I disagree. This isn't about changing one's "behavior" (as such). One doesn't forget their NY's resolution. They simply can't stick to it. And most NY's resolutions are personal in nature, not business related.

 

I don't mind people disagreeing with me.

 

But yes, it really is about behavior. It's about doing something over and over again so frequently that you don't have to put any mental effort into it - and then suddenly having to do it differently takes effort in a situation where no effort has been needed in the past.

 

All lumped into the category of "easier said than done". And anyone who thinks otherwise is really just as (pardon the bluntness) narrow minded as the individuals writing off the changes as 'stupid' because of those mistakes. Two opposite extremes for the same issue - neither views of which are helpful in any way to help things improve in the future.

 

I'm simply saying that willpower (NYs resolution) and learned behavior aren't the same even though under the same broad category of "behavior".

 

2 days ago I hit my ball into the water for the first time this year (haven't played but 7 or 8 rounds).

 

Took relief and dropped from the knee. No sweat, didn't give it a 2nd thought. I'm at least as programmed as the pros are and for a lot longer than ALL of them. I'm not playing golf for millions of dollars although I suppose a lot of the discussion around here for the last year+ has helped (me).

 

OK, so Rickie and his caddie had a collective brain fart. It happens. :dntknw:

[Stuart_G]

I'm at least as programmed as the pros

 

Somehow I doubt very much that your mindset and thought processes during a casual round have anything even remotely in common with that of a pro during one of their competitive rounds. I know mine isn't. But then, I'm not a pro so I wouldn't even try to make a judgement on what goes on in their minds during an event.

 

OK, so Rickie and his caddie had a collective brain fart. It happens. :dntknw:

 

Exactly my point. :-)

It's a normal part of the change process so no reason to be surprised about it or to throw them under the bus for it.

[LeoLeo99]

The Fowler drop floors me. The rule has been in place for 2 months. He's already played tourneys this year under the new drop rules. In reality, I blame his caddie more than him for the mess up. Where was he? Seeing your player drop from shoulder height when every other drop you've seen this year has been knee height, and a point of emphasis, and you don't notice the breach? What is he being paid for? To carry clubs? How could both of them not notice? It's perplexing.

 

Agreed though possibly the caddie didn't know what Rickie'd done.

 

Someone else pointed out he wasn't looking, but when he looked up Rickie was still upright and his arm was about waist high. So I guess the caddie *might* have heard to ball hit and though it sounded kinda loud. Might've been suspicious about Rickie's posture and arm. Would've been a really good catch had the caddie caught it but close call there.

 

 

 

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/2019-wgc-mexico-rickie-fowler-round-2-takes-bad-drop

 

Thanks for that video. His caddy is standing RIGHT THERE. Perhaps he should have been paying attention while his player was doing something that is a point of emphasis this year. His caddy knew he was going to drop. Watching the drop and saying, “That doesn’t look right” should be part of his job description.

 

Moreover, another player’s ball is right next to Rickie. Where is he and his caddie?

 

I get that a player can have a “brain fart” and drop the old way. I did it in my first round. Let me emphasize FIRST round. I also corrected my error. Rickie has a lot on his mind at that point after hitting one OB. He’s distracted and trying to figure how to get one in play. Excuses really.

 

But the other guys? We always hear about how well-liked Rickie is on tour. I’d say, apparently not. I mean, the camera man could have said something and didn’t.

 

There are real life and death situations where cameramen have to decide whether or not to say something. Golf ain't that serious. Not the cameraman's job to open his mouth and I wouldn't draw any conclusions regarding Rickie's likeability from it.

[Swisstrader98]

The Fowler drop floors me. The rule has been in place for 2 months. He's already played tourneys this year under the new drop rules. In reality, I blame his caddie more than him for the mess up. Where was he? Seeing your player drop from shoulder height when every other drop you've seen this year has been knee height, and a point of emphasis, and you don't notice the breach? What is he being paid for? To carry clubs? How could both of them not notice? It's perplexing.

 

Agreed though possibly the caddie didn't know what Rickie'd done.

 

Someone else pointed out he wasn't looking, but when he looked up Rickie was still upright and his arm was about waist high. So I guess the caddie *might* have heard to ball hit and though it sounded kinda loud. Might've been suspicious about Rickie's posture and arm. Would've been a really good catch had the caddie caught it but close call there.

 

 

 

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/2019-wgc-mexico-rickie-fowler-round-2-takes-bad-drop

 

Thanks for that video. His caddy is standing RIGHT THERE. Perhaps he should have been paying attention while his player was doing something that is a point of emphasis this year. His caddy knew he was going to drop. Watching the drop and saying, “That doesn’t look right” should be part of his job description.

 

Moreover, another player’s ball is right next to Rickie. Where is he and his caddie?

 

I get that a player can have a “brain fart” and drop the old way. I did it in my first round. Let me emphasize FIRST round. I also corrected my error. Rickie has a lot on his mind at that point after hitting one OB. He’s distracted and trying to figure how to get one in play. Excuses really.

 

But the other guys? We always hear about how well-liked Rickie is on tour. I’d say, apparently not. I mean, the camera man could have said something and didn’t.

 

Camera man??!!

 

Look, let’s start with the fact that a cameraman probably doesn’t have the slightest clue or interest in the exciting new rules of golf. Secondly, his one job is to keep his camera trained on his assigned golfer for the day and lug his equipment from Point A to Point B, so the very last thing he’s thinking is “ooops, did my guy just make a rules infraction around the new rules”. Then finally, let’s assume this guy is an avid WRX rules monger and that he sees a blatant rules violation. Do you seriously think it’s his job to shout out “woah Ricky!...you’re about to drop from shoulder height. New rule is knee height”!!

 

Seriously dude

[nsxguy]

I'm at least as programmed as the pros

 

Somehow I doubt very much that your mindset and thought processes during a casual round have anything even remotely in common with that of a pro during one of their competitive rounds. I know mine isn't. But then, I'm not a pro so I wouldn't even try to make a judgement on what goes on in their minds during an event.

 

"Programmed" as in knowing how to drop a ball.

 

As for the rest of it. Me ? Nope, certainly not any more (if I even ever was). Now I play for chump change. But you might be surprised,,,,,,,,,, actually, no, you shouldn't be,,,,,,,,,,,,, at some "mindsets and thought processes", not to mention intensity, amongst some amateurs; even those with not-quite-so-low handicaps.

 

I don't doubt that the pressure is more intense playing for millions and even the mindset and thought processes are right up there, but "not remotely in common" ? I'm betting there are more than a few amateurs here on the site who are extremely competitive players and play for (relatively) more than some of the pros out there.

 

One doesn't need to be a golf pro to have similar "mindsets and processes".

 

Playing for millions when you already have millions, while of course is pressure packed, isn't necessarily that much different than playing for that famous "$50 with only $5 in your pocket" (or however Trevino once phrased it).

 

While he was no doubt being at least somewhat flippant, there's certainly some truth in that phrase.

[deadsolid...shank]

The Fowler drop floors me. The rule has been in place for 2 months. He's already played tourneys this year under the new drop rules. In reality, I blame his caddie more than him for the mess up. Where was he? Seeing your player drop from shoulder height when every other drop you've seen this year has been knee height, and a point of emphasis, and you don't notice the breach? What is he being paid for? To carry clubs? How could both of them not notice? It's perplexing.

 

Agreed though possibly the caddie didn't know what Rickie'd done.

 

Someone else pointed out he wasn't looking, but when he looked up Rickie was still upright and his arm was about waist high. So I guess the caddie *might* have heard to ball hit and though it sounded kinda loud. Might've been suspicious about Rickie's posture and arm. Would've been a really good catch had the caddie caught it but close call there.

 

 

 

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/2019-wgc-mexico-rickie-fowler-round-2-takes-bad-drop

 

Thanks for that video. His caddy is standing RIGHT THERE. Perhaps he should have been paying attention while his player was doing something that is a point of emphasis this year. His caddy knew he was going to drop. Watching the drop and saying, “That doesn’t look right” should be part of his job description.

 

Moreover, another player’s ball is right next to Rickie. Where is he and his caddie?

 

I get that a player can have a “brain fart” and drop the old way. I did it in my first round. Let me emphasize FIRST round. I also corrected my error. Rickie has a lot on his mind at that point after hitting one OB. He’s distracted and trying to figure how to get one in play. Excuses really.

 

But the other guys? We always hear about how well-liked Rickie is on tour. I’d say, apparently not. I mean, the camera man could have said something and didn’t.

 

I think a big part of the issue is the circumstance of the drop.

 

When you hit one in the water, as you’re walking towards the spot you’re brain is already processing the procedure. You’re actually thinking about the drop. The caddie already has a ball out and ready. You’re in damage control and at least thinking a little bit clearly.

 

This was different. First he’s completely shell shocked and not thinking straight, just automatically, and immediately reachs out to the caddie, (who is as shocked as the player, thus not prepared] for another ball. He has to dig into the bag for a ball since he doesn’t have one ready. The drop occcurs on “autopilot” if you will. For both the player and the caddie. That shank is so out of nowhere that I really believe it blows you up mentally for a time.

[Shilgy]

Or maybe they will change because the original ruling was about the LPGA, not the PGA.

 

There were close to ZERO incidents of caddies on the tour using caddies to line up shots of players.

If it was just the ladies why are the men's caddies just now starting to do it when it's against the rules?

 

Why ? Come on man. You know that isn't the truth. The LPGA players were being physically lined up. As in feet , clubface etc to the target. Not even close to the same thing.

 

 

I say that and I also agree that the rule as is can work now that they have the reset option. Just have to be aware and back off. Which doesn't help pace , but is fair.

The ladies were being lined up the same as the men are now-do not kid yourself. How many times did you ever seen a LPGA caddie tell the player "a little left" or "a little right"? It was always just check and go. Which is the same thing the men are getting penalized now for. Except the men call it "picking a landing spot" or some such bs.

[Swisstrader98]

Or maybe they will change because the original ruling was about the LPGA, not the PGA.

 

There were close to ZERO incidents of caddies on the tour using caddies to line up shots of players.

If it was just the ladies why are the men's caddies just now starting to do it when it's against the rules?

 

Why ? Come on man. You know that isn't the truth. The LPGA players were being physically lined up. As in feet , clubface etc to the target. Not even close to the same thing.

 

 

I say that and I also agree that the rule as is can work now that they have the reset option. Just have to be aware and back off. Which doesn't help pace , but is fair.

The ladies were being lined up the same as the men are now-do not kid yourself. How many times did you ever seen a LPGA caddie tell the player "a little left" or "a little right"? It was always just check and go. Which is the same thing the men are getting penalized now for. Except the men call it "picking a landing spot" or some such bs.

 

Huh? This rule was ALWAYS just about the bad look of the LPGA players being lined up, NOT the PGA and I would venture a guess and say that just about everyone is aware of the genesis for the rules change.

 

On the ladies tour, caddies would like their players up most of the time. On the men’s tour it was almost never.

[Newby]

On the men's tour it was almost never.

I wonder why some are now complaining that they have been penalised for doing something they apparently didn't do before.

[SNIPERBBB]

Or maybe they will change because the original ruling was about the LPGA, not the PGA.

 

There were close to ZERO incidents of caddies on the tour using caddies to line up shots of players.

If it was just the ladies why are the men's caddies just now starting to do it when it's against the rules?

 

Why ? Come on man. You know that isn't the truth. The LPGA players were being physically lined up. As in feet , clubface etc to the target. Not even close to the same thing.

 

 

I say that and I also agree that the rule as is can work now that they have the reset option. Just have to be aware and back off. Which doesn't help pace , but is fair.

The ladies were being lined up the same as the men are now-do not kid yourself. How many times did you ever seen a LPGA caddie tell the player "a little left" or "a little right"? It was always just check and go. Which is the same thing the men are getting penalized now for. Except the men call it "picking a landing spot" or some such bs.

 

Huh? This rule was ALWAYS just about the bad look of the LPGA players being lined up, NOT the PGA and I would venture a guess and say that just about everyone is aware of the genesis for the rules change.

 

On the ladies tour, caddies would like their players up most of the time. On the men’s tour it was almost never.

 

Wasn't on the greens for the men. It was on 2nd shots there.

[Shilgy]

On the men's tour it was almost never.

I wonder why some are now complaining that they have been penalised for doing something they apparently didn't do before.

Does seem sort of dumb to allegedly start the behavior AFTER it becomes against the rules.

[Shilgy]

Or maybe they will change because the original ruling was about the LPGA, not the PGA.

 

There were close to ZERO incidents of caddies on the tour using caddies to line up shots of players.

If it was just the ladies why are the men's caddies just now starting to do it when it's against the rules?

 

Why ? Come on man. You know that isn't the truth. The LPGA players were being physically lined up. As in feet , clubface etc to the target. Not even close to the same thing.

 

 

I say that and I also agree that the rule as is can work now that they have the reset option. Just have to be aware and back off. Which doesn't help pace , but is fair.

The ladies were being lined up the same as the men are now-do not kid yourself. How many times did you ever seen a LPGA caddie tell the player "a little left" or "a little right"? It was always just check and go. Which is the same thing the men are getting penalized now for. Except the men call it "picking a landing spot" or some such bs.

 

Huh? This rule was ALWAYS just about the bad look of the LPGA players being lined up, NOT the PGA and I would venture a guess and say that just about everyone is aware of the genesis for the rules change.

 

On the ladies tour, caddies would like their players up most of the time. On the men's tour it was almost never.

JUST? So the men started the practice after being told it would be a penalty? Seems wise.

[HitEmTrue]

Huh? This rule was ALWAYS just about the bad look of the LPGA players being lined up, NOT the PGA and I would venture a guess and say that just about everyone is aware of the genesis for the rules change.

 

On the ladies tour, caddies would like their players up most of the time. On the men's tour it was almost never.

JUST? So the men started the practice after being told it would be a penalty? Seems wise.

 

They were already standing there, previously, before the rule change. The caddie would stand down the line, they would talk about the target, wind, etc, player grab club, and caddie pick up bag and step away as the player takes his stance. Does not (necessarily) mean the caddie was lining up the player, even though sometimes I believe they did.

[deadsolid...shank]

There is no way the men were doing it to the degree the ladies were. No way.

 

I see many more cases of the caddie standing perpendicular to the line, actually closer to facing the player than on the line. Then as the player gets ready to settle in the caddie takes the bag and takes two or three steps back.

[HitEmTrue]

There is no way the men were doing it to the degree the ladies were. No way.

 

I see many more cases of the caddie standing perpendicular to the line, actually closer to facing the player than on the line. Then as the player gets ready to settle in the caddie takes the bag and takes two or three steps back.

 

You are probably right. But in the situations that have caught them this year, they were most likely following whatever pattern they were previously doing for that particular shot. They weren't thinking, "oh there's a new rule, let's do something we didn't do before, and see if we can get penalized."

 

< edit >

Like on the Rickie example, where he possibly could have been penalized (caddie was looking at the scorecard), there was a bunker to the right of the line...so the caddie was standing down the line, because maybe he didn't want to stand in the bunker to talk about the shot.

[deadsolid...shank]

There is no way the men were doing it to the degree the ladies were. No way.

 

I see many more cases of the caddie standing perpendicular to the line, actually closer to facing the player than on the line. Then as the player gets ready to settle in the caddie takes the bag and takes two or three steps back.

 

You are probably right. But in the situations that have caught them this year, they were most likely following whatever pattern they were previously doing for that particular shot. They weren't thinking, "oh there's a new rule, let's do something we didn't do before, and see if we can get penalized."

 

That’s very true. The ones penalized probably were doing it previously. Or even some were there briefly while the player started to get ready, then moved away. But that’s a penalty now. The ladies, you often wondered if the caddie was going to make it off the line before she started her swing. They sat in there behind the line a long time.

[Swisstrader98]

Either some of you have never watched LPGA players putt prior to the rule change or you’re simply delusional.

 

Again, this was all about LPGA players being lined up by their caddies and mainly around putts. They did some lining up on drives and approaches as well.

 

The men almost NEVER would have a caddie stand behind a player and line them up for a putt.

[HitEmTrue]

The men almost NEVER would have a caddie stand behind a player and line them up for a putt.

 

But they did stand behind the player, and didn't have to worry about the timing of moving away before taking a stance. They didn't just start doing this. That is my only point.