Pros and others throw USGA under the bus.

[joeshmo]

The purse this year is 12.5 million. 1st place check is 2,250,000.

They all play the same course...Don't see the problem.

[BNGL]

Yeah it was David Fay. I went back to find the posts because I remember someone asking me about it.

> @MtlJeff said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dave. Come on. Many many people have worked on maintenance crews , as assistant greens keepers etc growing up. Myself included. Many golf professionals included. Does that make me a Superintendent? **** no. But. I know enough about the cake batter to know that the USga kills things on purpose. When the consultants said at shinecock “ the course needs water “ and you add none. Guess what ? You get to paint the greens for TV to make them appear alive , within 48 hours or less. To suggest that they aren’t at fault for any agronomy issues for the week , with all they have at their disposal is just not true. Short of a swarm of pestilence , a famine , or a power grid failure coupled with a 3 month drought , they can handle anything . And even then they have the resources for a generator to run the pump house . I don’t see a way to shrug off their actions as anything but purposeful obtuseness.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you can find anyplace where I've suggested that the USGA didn't screw some things up, please quote it. I never have. If we want to discuss things, we should probably deal with the things we actually say.

> > > >

> > > > I certainly read where you suggest that those complaining don’t know what goes into keeping a course in top shape.

> > > >

> > > > I’m saying you aren’t calling the screw ups for what they are. Not screw ups. But intentional Mickey Mouse setups. Setups that do not benefit the course or the tournament.

> > >

> > > The guys complaining really don't have no clue about what it takes. How many of these current players actually had to work on a grounds crew growing up, or during their college days? They're way too busy with practice and tournament play in those years, they didn't have time to spend 40 or 50 hours a week riding a mower, or cutting cups, or digging out leaky sprinkler heads.

> > > We're not going to agree. I'm glad that the US Open has traditionally and intentionally stood out from the rest, that it is substantially more difficult than your average Ti-D-Bowl Invitational. I honestly don't care if they change the character of the courses a bit to make that happen, even beyond simply growing more and deeper rough and firming up the greens. I don't like seeing truly impossible conditions, but i do enjoy seeing difficult conditions. Use a label like "Mickey Mouse" if you prefer, but I like seeing the guys tested sometimes.

> >

> > If anyone cares, because facts aren’t usually kosher on this site. I’ve worked US Opens (Oakmont; Cabrera and Johnson). The USGA never intentionally kills anything, I was at Shinnecock last year (not a part of the grounds crew) but I walked inside the ropes all week walked a couple greens Monday Tuesday they weren’t dead then.

> > The issue to me is neither the course nor players are the story, it’s always the mistakes in setup. Mike Davis is a liar...flat out I wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire. The elder gentlemen who preceded is as well, his name escapes me at the moment. I’m more apt to share the latter story because it’s public and something he said on live tv, Mike is personal I don’t know as that he’s on here but if 15th wants to set it up and invite I’ll debate him.

> > He was talking about the last setup at Shinnecock about a rogue greenskeeper rolled the green when it wasn’t supposed to be. That’s total BS. It’s just flat out wrong and an impossibility, there’s no chance it happened because there’s so many eyes on everyone from the USGA to the actual grounds crew. It’s not yocals working these clubs the briefings are so detailed and specific, no crew member that doesn’t know the holes and layout is going to be on a machine of any consequence.

> >

> > There’s no problem testing golfers, but keep it fair. If 20 under gets it because someone plays exceptionally well good for him.

> >

>

> Tom Meeks preceded Mike Davis, he had some real gems, like Shinnecock 1.0, Bethpage where players couldn't reach the fairway one round, and some others

>

> Shinnecock 1.0 might still be the all-time catastrophe. Didn't Ernie Els putt into a bunker when he had a 5 footer? It's probably son YouTube somewhere. Also remember guys balls bouncing off the 7th like basketballs

 

asking

[BNGL]

The other issue I believe, is that these guys aren’t players. They’re golfers...golfers that want to challenge good players want Mickey Mouse golf because that’s what you have to do to tour guys. A player understands the subtlety of what is challenging. That has to count for something I think. Too often the challenge is swung with a hammer blindly instead of a scalpel that cuts you one millions times.

[MtlJeff]

> @joeshmo said:

> The purse this year is 12.5 million. 1st place check is 2,250,000.

> They all play the same course...Don't see the problem.

 

They could put them on a football field and have them run post patterns against Jalen Ramsey and give the US Open trophy to whoever catches the most balls. I mean they are all being asked to do the same thing, but that doesn't make it golf

[nsxguy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> >

> > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > **

> > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > **

> > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > **

> > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> >

> > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > **

> > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> >

> > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> >

> > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> >

> > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> >

> > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> >

> > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> >

> >

>

> I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

>

>

 

How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

 

I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

 

The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

 

That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BNGL]

> @joeshmo said:

> The purse this year is 12.5 million. 1st place check is 2,250,000.

> They all play the same course...Don't see the proble

 

Anytime anyone presents the, “everyone plays the same course” argument I automatically discount their opinion, because it’s so elementary. You’ve added literally nothing no solution to a perceived problem by one group, and no substantiated claim of support for the other. > @MtlJeff said:

> > @joeshmo said:

> > The purse this year is 12.5 million. 1st place check is 2,250,000.

> > They all play the same course...Don't see the problem.

>

> They could put them on a football field and have them run post patterns against Jalen Ramsey and give the US Open trophy to whoever catches the most balls. I mean they are all being asked to do the same thing, but that doesn't make it golf

 

 

[BNGL]

I am many things, but I’m not so much a tool as to not admit when I am wrong. I LOST!!! I thought for sure 15 would have come in here by now...but here we are closing in 160 and still no sign. Someone do a welfare check!!!

[buckeyefl]

> @MtlJeff said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dave. Come on. Many many people have worked on maintenance crews , as assistant greens keepers etc growing up. Myself included. Many golf professionals included. Does that make me a Superintendent? **** no. But. I know enough about the cake batter to know that the USga kills things on purpose. When the consultants said at shinecock “ the course needs water “ and you add none. Guess what ? You get to paint the greens for TV to make them appear alive , within 48 hours or less. To suggest that they aren’t at fault for any agronomy issues for the week , with all they have at their disposal is just not true. Short of a swarm of pestilence , a famine , or a power grid failure coupled with a 3 month drought , they can handle anything . And even then they have the resources for a generator to run the pump house . I don’t see a way to shrug off their actions as anything but purposeful obtuseness.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you can find anyplace where I've suggested that the USGA didn't screw some things up, please quote it. I never have. If we want to discuss things, we should probably deal with the things we actually say.

> > > >

> > > > I certainly read where you suggest that those complaining don’t know what goes into keeping a course in top shape.

> > > >

> > > > I’m saying you aren’t calling the screw ups for what they are. Not screw ups. But intentional Mickey Mouse setups. Setups that do not benefit the course or the tournament.

> > >

> > > The guys complaining really don't have no clue about what it takes. How many of these current players actually had to work on a grounds crew growing up, or during their college days? They're way too busy with practice and tournament play in those years, they didn't have time to spend 40 or 50 hours a week riding a mower, or cutting cups, or digging out leaky sprinkler heads.

> > > We're not going to agree. I'm glad that the US Open has traditionally and intentionally stood out from the rest, that it is substantially more difficult than your average Ti-D-Bowl Invitational. I honestly don't care if they change the character of the courses a bit to make that happen, even beyond simply growing more and deeper rough and firming up the greens. I don't like seeing truly impossible conditions, but i do enjoy seeing difficult conditions. Use a label like "Mickey Mouse" if you prefer, but I like seeing the guys tested sometimes.

> >

> > If anyone cares, because facts aren’t usually kosher on this site. I’ve worked US Opens (Oakmont; Cabrera and Johnson). The USGA never intentionally kills anything, I was at Shinnecock last year (not a part of the grounds crew) but I walked inside the ropes all week walked a couple greens Monday Tuesday they weren’t dead then.

> > The issue to me is neither the course nor players are the story, it’s always the mistakes in setup. Mike Davis is a liar...flat out I wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire. The elder gentlemen who preceded is as well, his name escapes me at the moment. I’m more apt to share the latter story because it’s public and something he said on live tv, Mike is personal I don’t know as that he’s on here but if 15th wants to set it up and invite I’ll debate him.

> > He was talking about the last setup at Shinnecock about a rogue greenskeeper rolled the green when it wasn’t supposed to be. That’s total BS. It’s just flat out wrong and an impossibility, there’s no chance it happened because there’s so many eyes on everyone from the USGA to the actual grounds crew. It’s not yocals working these clubs the briefings are so detailed and specific, no crew member that doesn’t know the holes and layout is going to be on a machine of any consequence.

> >

> > There’s no problem testing golfers, but keep it fair. If 20 under gets it because someone plays exceptionally well good for him.

> >

>

> Tom Meeks preceded Mike Davis, he had some real gems, like Shinnecock 1.0, Bethpage where players couldn't reach the fairway one round, and some others

>

> Shinnecock 1.0 might still be the all-time catastrophe. Didn't Ernie Els putt into a bunker when he had a 5 footer? It's probably son YouTube somewhere. Also remember guys balls bouncing off the 7th like basketballs

 

I was thinking about Bethpage and not being able to reach the fairway situation earlier today. That was a dandy. That put those long hitters in their place!

[bspn]

> @dalehead said:

> If the people who set up a golf course for a championship do their job correctly no one should know their name. Anyone know who set up Bethpage for the PGA? If you find yourself having to have a press conference explaining why you set up the golf course the way you did you have failed.

 

Well Kerry Haigh did hold a press conference at Bethpage to explain the course setup given the move to May and the wet lead-up .... but I know what you're saying and the Mike Davis press conferences have been pretty funny to watch over the years.

 

Bethpage was a great example of a tough, but fair championship layout. The fairways were tight, the course played long and the rough was brutal (particularly given the weather) but the greens were receptive so rarely did you see a good shot unfairly punished. BK took the course apart the first three days by playing exhibition golf but got a serious fright once the wind got up on Sunday and the championship course showed its teeth. Contrast that with recent US Opens where Davis & Co have been obsessed with tight, rock-hard fairways combined with long rough and stupidly fast greens with absurd pin locations that inevitably leads to luck rather than skill having an influence over scoring.

[MaxBuck]

I've never found the US Open to be as compelling as the British Open or the Masters, because IMO the courses are too tricked up and as a result, luck plays a disproportionate role in who wins.

 

On the other hand, suggestions that "PGA Tour players can just boycott and name the Players the 4th major to replace the US Open" are silly. Neither the USGA nor touring pros are the ones designating "majors;" the public designates the majors. And I'll believe a widespread boycott of the US Open just as soon as it actually happens.

 

I hope the smart people here who have voiced some great ideas can find sway with the USGA. Don't know whether it can happen. Meanwhile I will go out and play golf myself, by whatever rules the USGA elects to promulgate, and I'll continue to watch the US Open regardless of how tricked up the courses are and regardless of how whiny and entitled the participants are.

[rangersgoalie]

 

> > Tom Meeks preceded Mike Davis, he had some real gems, like Shinnecock 1.0, Bethpage where players couldn't reach the fairway one round, and some others

> >

> > Shinnecock 1.0 might still be the all-time catastrophe. Didn't Ernie Els putt into a bunker when he had a 5 footer? It's probably son YouTube somewhere. Also remember guys balls bouncing off the 7th like basketballs

>

> I was thinking about Bethpage and not being able to reach the fairway situation earlier today. That was a dandy. That put those long hitters in their place!

 

 

Was it Meeks who said (at Bethpage)

There is nothing in the rules that says you have to reach a fairway?

 

[JAMH03]

> @Sixcat said:

> I had two take-a-ways from the piece. First, I was surprised to see players admit to considering a boycott for a few years now. That has to get some attention from inside the USGA bubble. Short of an actual player revolt, it will likely not result in much change within that USGA bubble but it still has to raise a few eyebrows. Second, we never hear anything remotely close to a controversy stemming from anything the R&A does. How can the R&A get things so absolutely right and the USGA get things so absolutely wrong?

 

How indeed?

[buckeyefl]

> @rangersgoalie said:

>

> > > Tom Meeks preceded Mike Davis, he had some real gems, like Shinnecock 1.0, Bethpage where players couldn't reach the fairway one round, and some others

> > >

> > > Shinnecock 1.0 might still be the all-time catastrophe. Didn't Ernie Els putt into a bunker when he had a 5 footer? It's probably son YouTube somewhere. Also remember guys balls bouncing off the 7th like basketballs

> >

> > I was thinking about Bethpage and not being able to reach the fairway situation earlier today. That was a dandy. That put those long hitters in their place!

>

>

> Was it Meeks who said (at Bethpage)

> There is nothing in the rules that says you have to reach a fairway?

>

 

Looking for the answer I found this old article. Some great quotes and a trip down memory lane fir those that think the USGA is the second coming.

 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-jun-12-sp-debacle12-story.html

 

"On the 10th hole at Bethpage, guys couldn't reach the fairway and Tom Meeks thought it was justified," Fred Funk said at this year's Nissan Open. "Here is a guy with his head up his butt, I think."

 

Bethpage's 490-yard par-four 10th had a 250-yard forced carry over high rough to reach the fairway. During a second-round downpour, 15 consecutive players were unable to reach the short grass. Meeks acknowledged he was aware that the forecast storm would make the carry nearly impossible for most, yet he refused to move tees up before the round.

 

Just as controversial was the fairway contour setup for Bethpage's 499-yard par-four 12th. The USGA provided a tiny 12-yard-wide landing area for those driving 260 to 270 yards. If a player carried a left-side bunker and another patch of dense rough with a 285-yard tee shot, the fairway expanded to a still-meager 26 paces.

 

"What were they thinking?" Nick Price said of the 12th hole setup. "It defies logic."

 

Meeks is unapologetic.

 

"We did do a good job," he said recently of Bethpage. "It was right in line with the philosophy of a U.S. Open."

 

Meeks describes the Bethpage setup as "not quite an A-plus."

 

Three-time U.S. Open champion Hale Irwin, who played in his 33rd Open at Bethpage, was asked how the setup compared to past championships.

 

"If this is a snapshot of what the future of golf is, and the future of the U.S. Open, I really don't like the look."

 

 

Meeks was quite the egomaniac and didn't try to hide the agenda like Davis does but both are equally foolish and arrogant twits.

[bladehunter]

> @BNGL said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @BNGL said:

> > > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > > > @BNGL said:

> > > > > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > > > > Lets talk greens...an association with a pretty solid and active agronomy consulting and research arm has given the Us Open.

> > > > > > Events where greens had to be maintained at different speeds due to the desire to make greens so fast it renders some greens unplayable or leaves one section of well designed greens unusable for hole locations. With many years to prepare for an event, they have proven incapable of producing consistent greens that match the course design they chose.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pushing greens so far that there is loss of turf. Pebble, Shinnecock and Chambers were incredible prior to the weeks leading up to the Opens. Chambers greens in particular were embarrassingly bad.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pebble is in beautiful condition as of last week. Greens are great although we’re soft after the recent rains. They can dry them out in 3 days with no rain, and pace will pick up. Will they push them so hard they start losing turf and create that familiar bumpy/crazy fast poa the USGA is so well I own for?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Will the 9th and 10th fairways get so fast that keeping a ball on the fairway not running off towards the cliffs?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Right now, Pebble is ready to be a great venue. Very tight in spots, greens are very consistent and healthy. Can they resist the urge to push just past the edge instead of right up to it?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > Throw out Chambers, that was an anomaly that was no ones fault and beyond human control.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Chambers greens a couple months prior to the open, were no doubt poa infested, but were actually quite solid. The drying out and shaving of the poa, stressed and created the bumpy mess we witnessed. It’s happened at Pebble the last few times as well. Trying to force the speed and concrete firmness on a plant that at its best grows inconsistently and is easy to stress is asking for problems.

> > > > Again, pushing to just over the line seems to be the problem, rather than pushing up to that line.

> > > >

> > > > Of course they go to Erin after that and basically play a Web.com course on the RTJ trail conditions :)

> > >

> > > Not to be a total d*** because you played and know what you’re talking about but again it wasn’t a USGA setup issue that poa was a problem exacerbated by Mother Nature...not the USGA or course maintenance.

> >

> > **Preface-** - this is a question. So nobody take it as anything but.

> >

> >

> > Can you elaborate as to what you mean ? I’m quite interested as a guy who was a maintenance shed grunt up to assistant in a span of 6 years. I can tell you that I don’t know the answer at chambers , if that helps. And I have no (0) experience on poa or fescue. Bermuda and pencross bent is all I’ve worked on. Again. Serious , curious question.

> >

>

> Where to begin...let’s start at the beginning I guess (how original lol).

>

> So Chambers was originally built with fescue greens, which is perfect for the climate in the Northwest i.e. cooler, heading into that US Open, Tacoma had set multiple records for high temperatures and fescue when it gets warm shuts down and when that happens it opens the door for other species to invade. Trouble was is that the heat was a terrific catalyst for an explosion of poa growth which was already present, and present nearly everywhere on every golf course (particularly annual, not perennial that’s found at Oakmont).

>

> Just off the timeline I remember for our Opens water would have been reduced around 2.5-3 months before the tournament proper, which makes it April-ish end of March? I’d reckon the number was 18 percent or so in reduction. Plus nitrogen fertilizers would be stopped as well. So what that does is it firms out the course, less water, and makes it faster, thinner leaf blades (A reduction of N will shrink the leaf blade thinner blade means less friction, less friction imparted on the golf ball means faster speeds). The weather didn’t cooperate I think 2 weeks plus of mid 80s and by the time everyone realized the usual rains weren’t coming it was too late. The fescue checked out, (DID NOT DIE), and the poa exploded because they tried to water to save the fescue. What happens to poa when you water it? It grows...typically much faster than surrounding turf. You can brush it and groom it, but doing that on US Open greens would have made them unputtable because green speeds would have been ridiculous for the amount of undulation in those greens.

>

> So in conclusion you had the first US Open ever to be conducted on fescue greens. Normal tournament setup procedures were followed incorporating past weather patterns. Weather didn’t corporate, it stayed hot with no typical rains. Fescue checks out, poa explodes.

>

 

Makes a lot of sense. I would have assumed ( wrongly) that watering the fescue would have been the answer. Didn’t know it couldn’t do heat regardless. Makes me ask ..why? Why on earth would you try to use fescue ?

 

Anyway. Thanks for the detail. Makes sense.

 

Was like the boy who cried wolf. They had screwed up so many times on their own nobody believes the one time they got A raw deal and couldn’t help it. Hmmm

[bladehunter]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > >

> > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > **

> > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > **

> > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > **

> > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > >

> > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > **

> > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > >

> > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > >

> > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > >

> > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > >

> > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > >

> > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> >

> >

>

> How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

>

> I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

>

> The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

>

> That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

[Mikey5e]

My hope is the USGA doesn't make the courses too easy for the US Open tournament. I don't think it would be very difficult to make a course difficult to play, but still maintain fairness.

As for the incident with Phil last year, he just hammered that first one too hard to stop in those conditions. His second putt in that direction he missed and it stopped, indicating that he should have been more careful on his first putt. There is no golf tournament as boring as a tournament where are the top 10 golfers are all 15 to 25 under par. When golf is that easy I shut the TV off.

[buckeyefl]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > >

> > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > **

> > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > **

> > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > **

> > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > >

> > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > **

> > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > >

> > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > >

> > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > >

> > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > >

> > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > >

> > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> >

> > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> >

> > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> >

> > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

 

Which wouldnt be out of character so more than likely how it happened.

[bladehunter]

> @rangersgoalie said:

>

> > > Tom Meeks preceded Mike Davis, he had some real gems, like Shinnecock 1.0, Bethpage where players couldn't reach the fairway one round, and some others

> > >

> > > Shinnecock 1.0 might still be the all-time catastrophe. Didn't Ernie Els putt into a bunker when he had a 5 footer? It's probably son YouTube somewhere. Also remember guys balls bouncing off the 7th like basketballs

> >

> > I was thinking about Bethpage and not being able to reach the fairway situation earlier today. That was a dandy. That put those long hitters in their place!

>

>

> Was it Meeks who said (at Bethpage)

> There is nothing in the rules that says you have to reach a fairway?

>

 

 

The irony of that guys name is too much to let go un mentioned.

[BNGL]

> @Mikey5e said:

> My hope is the USGA doesn't make the courses too easy for the US Open tournament. I don't think it would be very difficult to make a course difficult to play, but still maintain fairness.

> As for the incident with Phil last year, he just hammered that first one too hard to stop in those conditions. His second putt in that direction he missed and it stopped, indicating that he should have been more careful on his first putt. There is no golf tournament as boring as a tournament where are the top 10 golfers are all 15 to 25 under par. When golf is that easy I shut the TV off.

 

I have to disagree. 15-25 under is fantastic. To me the most locked in event I was into was Sei Young Kim at the Thornberry Classic when she shot 31 under 257. I want to see how good the pros are, because I can post 10-12 under for four rounds at Medalist or Jupiter Hills. I do agree the US Open should be a challenge but your last couple sentences to me I disagree with.

[MtlJeff]

I am pretty sure there was also a Payne Stewart putt at Olympic club where he putted up a hill, it lipped out, and rolled like 20 feet back down passed where he putted it from. I may have the venue wrong. Think that was also during Meeks reign of terror

 

The irony is I think many thought Mike Davis was a breath of fresh air at first, he brought back the recovery shot and didn't turn every par 5 into a par 4. He also brought driveable par 4's to every venue

 

But over time the setups made less and less sense, and his public comments have been pretty arrogant, so he's fitting right in with them finally

[BNGL]

> @MtlJeff said:

> I am pretty sure there was also a Payne Stewart putt at Olympic club where he putted up a hill, it lipped out, and rolled like 20 feet back down passed where he putted it from. I may have the venue wrong. Think that was also during Meeks reign of terror

>

> The irony is I think many thought Mike Davis was a breath of fresh air at first, he brought back the recovery shot and didn't turn every par 5 into a par 4. He also brought driveable par 4's to every venue

>

> But over time the setups made less and less sense, and his public comments have been pretty arrogant, so he's fitting right in with them finally

 

Kirk Triplett stopped his ball from rolling back on that hole, 18 if I remember correctly. Ironically enough they thought that position was risky even before the first groups rolled through.

 

 

[nsxguy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > >

> > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > **

> > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > **

> > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > **

> > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > >

> > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > **

> > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > >

> > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > >

> > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > >

> > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > >

> > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > >

> > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> >

> > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> >

> > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> >

> > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

 

This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

[buckeyefl]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > > >

> > > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > > **

> > > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > > **

> > > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > > **

> > > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > > >

> > > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > > **

> > > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > > >

> > > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > > >

> > > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > > >

> > > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > > >

> > > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> > >

> > > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> > >

> > > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> > >

> > > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

>

> This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

 

More like history.

[ebrasmus21]

> @MtlJeff said:

> > @joeshmo said:

> > The purse this year is 12.5 million. 1st place check is 2,250,000.

> > They all play the same course...Don't see the problem.

>

> They could put them on a football field and have them run post patterns against Jalen Ramsey and give the US Open trophy to whoever catches the most balls. I mean they are all being asked to do the same thing, but that doesn't make it golf

 

Brooks would win, obviously.

[bladehunter]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > > >

> > > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > > **

> > > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > > **

> > > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > > **

> > > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > > >

> > > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > > **

> > > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > > >

> > > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > > >

> > > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > > >

> > > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > > >

> > > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> > >

> > > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> > >

> > > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> > >

> > > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

>

> This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

 

Sure. The bias being that I know that true intentioned help is an extreme rarity in the world. There’s usually a hook in it somewhere. Most people offering random help are doing to to get that “ superiority high “. Otherwise you could do bag spot checks before the first tee. Not announce your help on the first tee.

 

I presume your assumption of “ he’s just trying to be a blessing “ is also from personal bias ? Neither of us know. So it pretty much has to be.

 

 

[North Texas]

> @BNGL said:

> > @Mikey5e said:

> > My hope is the USGA doesn't make the courses too easy for the US Open tournament. I don't think it would be very difficult to make a course difficult to play, but still maintain fairness.

> > As for the incident with Phil last year, he just hammered that first one too hard to stop in those conditions. His second putt in that direction he missed and it stopped, indicating that he should have been more careful on his first putt. There is no golf tournament as boring as a tournament where are the top 10 golfers are all 15 to 25 under par. When golf is that easy I shut the TV off.

>

> I have to disagree. 15-25 under is fantastic. To me the most locked in event I was into was Sei Young Kim at the Thornberry Classic when she shot 31 under 257. I want to see how good the pros are, because I can post 10-12 under for four rounds at Medalist or Jupiter Hills. I do agree the US Open should be a challenge but your last couple sentences to me I disagree with.

 

Man, I couldn't disagree more. 15-25 under for a national championship is a mockery. I already know how good the pros are and I'm way more locked in when it's low single digit under par and players are fighting and scraping for par and have to hit really, really good shots to make birdies. That's real golf to me.

 

But, hey, that's just my opinion. And as I like to say, just because you agree with me doesn't mean you are a smart and just because you disagree with me doesn't mean you are stupid.

[BNGL]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > My hope is the USGA doesn't make the courses too easy for the US Open tournament. I don't think it would be very difficult to make a course difficult to play, but still maintain fairness.

> > > As for the incident with Phil last year, he just hammered that first one too hard to stop in those conditions. His second putt in that direction he missed and it stopped, indicating that he should have been more careful on his first putt. There is no golf tournament as boring as a tournament where are the top 10 golfers are all 15 to 25 under par. When golf is that easy I shut the TV off.

> >

> > I have to disagree. 15-25 under is fantastic. To me the most locked in event I was into was Sei Young Kim at the Thornberry Classic when she shot 31 under 257. I want to see how good the pros are, because I can post 10-12 under for four rounds at Medalist or Jupiter Hills. I do agree the US Open should be a challenge but your last couple sentences to me I disagree with.

>

> Man, I couldn't disagree more. 15-25 under for a national championship is a mockery. I already know how good the pros are and I'm way more locked in when it's low single digit under par and players are fighting and scraping for par and have to hit really, really good shots to make birdies. That's real golf to me.

>

> But, hey, that's just my opinion. And as I like to say, just because you agree with me doesn't mean you are a smart and just because you disagree with me doesn't mean you are stupid.

 

Let’s examine the British then. From 2000 to now there have been 10 winners at 10 under or better.

Then what does it mean?

[North Texas]

> @BNGL said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > > @BNGL said:

> > > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > My hope is the USGA doesn't make the courses too easy for the US Open tournament. I don't think it would be very difficult to make a course difficult to play, but still maintain fairness.

> > > > As for the incident with Phil last year, he just hammered that first one too hard to stop in those conditions. His second putt in that direction he missed and it stopped, indicating that he should have been more careful on his first putt. There is no golf tournament as boring as a tournament where are the top 10 golfers are all 15 to 25 under par. When golf is that easy I shut the TV off.

> > >

> > > I have to disagree. 15-25 under is fantastic. To me the most locked in event I was into was Sei Young Kim at the Thornberry Classic when she shot 31 under 257. I want to see how good the pros are, because I can post 10-12 under for four rounds at Medalist or Jupiter Hills. I do agree the US Open should be a challenge but your last couple sentences to me I disagree with.

> >

> > Man, I couldn't disagree more. 15-25 under for a national championship is a mockery. I already know how good the pros are and I'm way more locked in when it's low single digit under par and players are fighting and scraping for par and have to hit really, really good shots to make birdies. That's real golf to me.

> >

> > But, hey, that's just my opinion. And as I like to say, just because you agree with me doesn't mean you are a smart and just because you disagree with me doesn't mean you are stupid.

>

> Let’s examine the British then. From 2000 to now there have been 10 winners at 10 under or better.

> Then what does it mean?

 

I have no clue what that means because I don't even know how what you said relates to my post. But, admittedly, there's a lot of things I don't understand. Just ask my wife.

[nsxguy]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > > > **

> > > > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > > > **

> > > > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > > > **

> > > > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > > > **

> > > > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> > > >

> > > > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> > > >

> > > > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> > > >

> > > > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

> >

> > This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

>

> More like history.

 

MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.,

 

MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

[nsxguy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > > > **

> > > > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > > > **

> > > > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > > > **

> > > > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > > > **

> > > > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> > > >

> > > > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> > > >

> > > > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> > > >

> > > > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

> >

> > This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

>

> Sure. The bias being that I know that true intentioned help is an extreme rarity in the world. There’s usually a hook in it somewhere. Most people offering random help are doing to to get that “ superiority high “. Otherwise you could do bag spot checks before the first tee. Not announce your help on the first tee.

>

> I presume your assumption of “ he’s just trying to be a blessing “ is also from personal bias ? Neither of us know. So it pretty much has to be.

>

>

 

Cynical much ? So what's his "hook" then ?

 

I assume "He's just trying to be a blessing" ??? LOL

 

How about he's offering an accomodation to the players he feels he should be of service to ? That better ? (<--- that's a rhetorical question - I suspect I know your answer)