Pros and others throw USGA under the bus.

[bladehunter]

> @BNGL said:

> > @dalehead said:

> > If the people who set up a golf course for a championship do their job correctly no one should know their name. Anyone know who set up Bethpage for the PGA? If you find yourself having to have a press conference explaining why you set up the golf course the way you did you have failed.

>

> Andrew Wilson.

>

>

>

 

No fair ! Insider trading !!

 

lol. Of course YOU know the guy. ( sarcasm ).

[Big A HG]

I have two thoughts:

 

1) There are two numbers in golf that are completely irrelevant....what par is and the number on the sole of your irons (unless the loft is stamped there). As far as what par is and scores in relationship to par, it really doesn't matter. The idea is to complete 18 holes in as few of strokes as possible. Does it really matter if a hole is a par 4 or a par 8? If the USGA went and changed all the long, challenging par 4s to par 5s and made the total par a 78, would people complain less when the scores are ultimately the same, only different in relation to par? The iron you are hitting is also irrelevant, since the distance you will hit that club is based on loft and length of the club, not the number on the bottom.

 

2) I think all this hub-bub will ultimately help Tiger Woods even more. Pebble Beach will be as good of a fit as any US Open course will be at his age considering it's a shorter US Open venue and puts a premium on your iron ballstriking. If the course sets up any easier than anticipated in response to these messages, it takes out even more of the penalizing nature that Tiger has struggled with of late.

[BNGL]

> @davep043 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > >

> > > > Dave. Come on. Many many people have worked on maintenance crews , as assistant greens keepers etc growing up. Myself included. Many golf professionals included. Does that make me a Superintendent? **** no. But. I know enough about the cake batter to know that the USga kills things on purpose. When the consultants said at shinecock “ the course needs water “ and you add none. Guess what ? You get to paint the greens for TV to make them appear alive , within 48 hours or less. To suggest that they aren’t at fault for any agronomy issues for the week , with all they have at their disposal is just not true. Short of a swarm of pestilence , a famine , or a power grid failure coupled with a 3 month drought , they can handle anything . And even then they have the resources for a generator to run the pump house . I don’t see a way to shrug off their actions as anything but purposeful obtuseness.

> > >

> > > If you can find anyplace where I've suggested that the USGA didn't screw some things up, please quote it. I never have. If we want to discuss things, we should probably deal with the things we actually say.

> >

> > I certainly read where you suggest that those complaining don’t know what goes into keeping a course in top shape.

> >

> > I’m saying you aren’t calling the screw ups for what they are. Not screw ups. But intentional Mickey Mouse setups. Setups that do not benefit the course or the tournament.

>

> The guys complaining really don't have no clue about what it takes. How many of these current players actually had to work on a grounds crew growing up, or during their college days? They're way too busy with practice and tournament play in those years, they didn't have time to spend 40 or 50 hours a week riding a mower, or cutting cups, or digging out leaky sprinkler heads.

> We're not going to agree. I'm glad that the US Open has traditionally and intentionally stood out from the rest, that it is substantially more difficult than your average Ti-D-Bowl Invitational. I honestly don't care if they change the character of the courses a bit to make that happen, even beyond simply growing more and deeper rough and firming up the greens. I don't like seeing truly impossible conditions, but i do enjoy seeing difficult conditions. Use a label like "Mickey Mouse" if you prefer, but I like seeing the guys tested sometimes.

 

If anyone cares, because facts aren’t usually kosher on this site. I’ve worked US Opens (Oakmont; Cabrera and Johnson). The USGA never intentionally kills anything, I was at Shinnecock last year (not a part of the grounds crew) but I walked inside the ropes all week walked a couple greens Monday Tuesday they weren’t dead then.

The issue to me is neither the course nor players are the story, it’s always the mistakes in setup. Mike Davis is a liar...flat out I wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire. The elder gentlemen who preceded is as well, his name escapes me at the moment. I’m more apt to share the latter story because it’s public and something he said on live tv, Mike is personal I don’t know as that he’s on here but if 15th wants to set it up and invite I’ll debate him.

He was talking about the last setup at Shinnecock about a rogue greenskeeper rolled the green when it wasn’t supposed to be. That’s total BS. It’s just flat out wrong and an impossibility, there’s no chance it happened because there’s so many eyes on everyone from the USGA to the actual grounds crew. It’s not yocals working these clubs the briefings are so detailed and specific, no crew member that doesn’t know the holes and layout is going to be on a machine of any consequence.

 

There’s no problem testing golfers, but keep it fair. If 20 under gets it because someone plays exceptionally well good for him.

 

[rangersgoalie]

Lets talk greens...an association with a pretty solid and active agronomy consulting and research arm has given the Us Open.

Events where greens had to be maintained at different speeds due to the desire to make greens so fast it renders some greens unplayable or leaves one section of well designed greens unusable for hole locations. With many years to prepare for an event, they have proven incapable of producing consistent greens that match the course design they chose.

 

Pushing greens so far that there is loss of turf. Pebble, Shinnecock and Chambers were incredible prior to the weeks leading up to the Opens. Chambers greens in particular were embarrassingly bad.

 

Pebble is in beautiful condition as of last week. Greens are great although we’re soft after the recent rains. They can dry them out in 3 days with no rain, and pace will pick up. Will they push them so hard they start losing turf and create that familiar bumpy/crazy fast poa the USGA is so well I own for?

 

Will the 9th and 10th fairways get so fast that keeping a ball on the fairway not running off towards the cliffs?

 

Right now, Pebble is ready to be a great venue. Very tight in spots, greens are very consistent and healthy. Can they resist the urge to push just past the edge instead of right up to it?

 

 

[Birdie Mac]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @"Birdie Mac" said:

> >

> > > I would never work for that organization. I'd rather pick up trash by the roadside with a prison chain gang. Unless the prison chain gang was made up of USGA executives. And then, no, I'd pass on that.

> > Geez, that's a nice hearty slice of hyperbole.

> >

> > Remember the poor press the golfers caught that chose to not play in the 2016 Olympics due to the zika virus? Rest assured they'd get the same if they chose to boycott. Different circumstances, but the result would be the same. The 9 to 5ers would see it as millionaires having a temper tantrum, which is why a boycott will never happen.

> >

> > I see this years' US Open going on without a major hitch.

> >

>

> I never viewed as not traveling because of Zika as anyone having a temper tantrum. I can't even recall who didn't go.

Rory got the most tongues wagging due to the comments he made in a presser, but Spieth, DJ, and Day also didn't go. I think all of the eligible ladies went.

 

[BNGL]

> @rangersgoalie said:

> Lets talk greens...an association with a pretty solid and active agronomy consulting and research arm has given the Us Open.

> Events where greens had to be maintained at different speeds due to the desire to make greens so fast it renders some greens unplayable or leaves one section of well designed greens unusable for hole locations. With many years to prepare for an event, they have proven incapable of producing consistent greens that match the course design they chose.

>

> Pushing greens so far that there is loss of turf. Pebble, Shinnecock and Chambers were incredible prior to the weeks leading up to the Opens. Chambers greens in particular were embarrassingly bad.

>

> Pebble is in beautiful condition as of last week. Greens are great although we’re soft after the recent rains. They can dry them out in 3 days with no rain, and pace will pick up. Will they push them so hard they start losing turf and create that familiar bumpy/crazy fast poa the USGA is so well I own for?

>

> Will the 9th and 10th fairways get so fast that keeping a ball on the fairway not running off towards the cliffs?

>

> Right now, Pebble is ready to be a great venue. Very tight in spots, greens are very consistent and healthy. Can they resist the urge to push just past the edge instead of right up to it?

>

>

Throw out Chambers, that was an anomaly that was no ones fault and beyond human control.

 

[ebrasmus21]

> @BNGL said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > >

> > > > > Dave. Come on. Many many people have worked on maintenance crews , as assistant greens keepers etc growing up. Myself included. Many golf professionals included. Does that make me a Superintendent? **** no. But. I know enough about the cake batter to know that the USga kills things on purpose. When the consultants said at shinecock “ the course needs water “ and you add none. Guess what ? You get to paint the greens for TV to make them appear alive , within 48 hours or less. To suggest that they aren’t at fault for any agronomy issues for the week , with all they have at their disposal is just not true. Short of a swarm of pestilence , a famine , or a power grid failure coupled with a 3 month drought , they can handle anything . And even then they have the resources for a generator to run the pump house . I don’t see a way to shrug off their actions as anything but purposeful obtuseness.

> > > >

> > > > If you can find anyplace where I've suggested that the USGA didn't screw some things up, please quote it. I never have. If we want to discuss things, we should probably deal with the things we actually say.

> > >

> > > I certainly read where you suggest that those complaining don’t know what goes into keeping a course in top shape.

> > >

> > > I’m saying you aren’t calling the screw ups for what they are. Not screw ups. But intentional Mickey Mouse setups. Setups that do not benefit the course or the tournament.

> >

> > The guys complaining really don't have no clue about what it takes. How many of these current players actually had to work on a grounds crew growing up, or during their college days? They're way too busy with practice and tournament play in those years, they didn't have time to spend 40 or 50 hours a week riding a mower, or cutting cups, or digging out leaky sprinkler heads.

> > We're not going to agree. I'm glad that the US Open has traditionally and intentionally stood out from the rest, that it is substantially more difficult than your average Ti-D-Bowl Invitational. I honestly don't care if they change the character of the courses a bit to make that happen, even beyond simply growing more and deeper rough and firming up the greens. I don't like seeing truly impossible conditions, but i do enjoy seeing difficult conditions. Use a label like "Mickey Mouse" if you prefer, but I like seeing the guys tested sometimes.

>

> If anyone cares, because facts aren’t usually kosher on this site. I’ve worked US Opens (Oakmont; Cabrera and Johnson). The USGA never intentionally kills anything, I was at Shinnecock last year (not a part of the grounds crew) but I walked inside the ropes all week walked a couple greens Monday Tuesday they weren’t dead then.

> The issue to me is neither the course nor players are the story, it’s always the mistakes in setup. Mike Davis is a liar...flat out I wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire. The elder gentlemen who preceded is as well, his name escapes me at the moment. I’m more apt to share the latter story because it’s public and something he said on live tv, Mike is personal I don’t know as that he’s on here but if 15th wants to set it up and invite I’ll debate him.

> He was talking about the last setup at Shinnecock about a rogue greenskeeper rolled the green when it wasn’t supposed to be. That’s total BS. It’s just flat out wrong and an impossibility, there’s no chance it happened because there’s so many eyes on everyone from the USGA to the actual grounds crew. It’s not yocals working these clubs the briefings are so detailed and specific, no crew member that doesn’t know the holes and layout is going to be on a machine of any consequence.

>

> There’s no problem testing golfers, but keep it fair. If 20 under gets it because someone plays exceptionally well good for him.

>

 

Can't wait for 15th to see this thread and SLAY YOU.

[BNGL]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @dalehead said:

> > > If the people who set up a golf course for a championship do their job correctly no one should know their name. Anyone know who set up Bethpage for the PGA? If you find yourself having to have a press conference explaining why you set up the golf course the way you did you have failed.

> >

> > Andrew Wilson.

> >

> >

> >

>

> No fair ! Insider trading !!

>

> lol. Of course YOU know the guy. ( sarcasm ).

 

Granted that’s not who he’s asking, I think he means who from the PGA is in charge, but Andy Wilson is the director.

Networks typically do highlight who is responsible for course setup during tournament week...it’s usually in the first 15 minutes. Usually there will be a side by side of the course with a text box; Course Designer; A.S. Muncher (1934), Redesign Heywood Jablome (1968). Greens: TifEagle, Fairways and Tees: Celebration, Green Speed: 12-13. Golf Course Superintendent: Dick Hertz

[rangersgoalie]

> @BNGL said:

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > Lets talk greens...an association with a pretty solid and active agronomy consulting and research arm has given the Us Open.

> > Events where greens had to be maintained at different speeds due to the desire to make greens so fast it renders some greens unplayable or leaves one section of well designed greens unusable for hole locations. With many years to prepare for an event, they have proven incapable of producing consistent greens that match the course design they chose.

> >

> > Pushing greens so far that there is loss of turf. Pebble, Shinnecock and Chambers were incredible prior to the weeks leading up to the Opens. Chambers greens in particular were embarrassingly bad.

> >

> > Pebble is in beautiful condition as of last week. Greens are great although we’re soft after the recent rains. They can dry them out in 3 days with no rain, and pace will pick up. Will they push them so hard they start losing turf and create that familiar bumpy/crazy fast poa the USGA is so well I own for?

> >

> > Will the 9th and 10th fairways get so fast that keeping a ball on the fairway not running off towards the cliffs?

> >

> > Right now, Pebble is ready to be a great venue. Very tight in spots, greens are very consistent and healthy. Can they resist the urge to push just past the edge instead of right up to it?

> >

> >

> Throw out Chambers, that was an anomaly that was no ones fault and beyond human control.

>

 

Chambers greens a couple months prior to the open, were no doubt poa infested, but were actually quite solid. The drying out and shaving of the poa, stressed and created the bumpy mess we witnessed. It’s happened at Pebble the last few times as well. Trying to force the speed and concrete firmness on a plant that at its best grows inconsistently and is easy to stress is asking for problems.

Again, pushing to just over the line seems to be the problem, rather than pushing up to that line.

 

Of course they go to Erin after that and basically play a Web.com course on the RTJ trail conditions :)

[BNGL]

> @rangersgoalie said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > Lets talk greens...an association with a pretty solid and active agronomy consulting and research arm has given the Us Open.

> > > Events where greens had to be maintained at different speeds due to the desire to make greens so fast it renders some greens unplayable or leaves one section of well designed greens unusable for hole locations. With many years to prepare for an event, they have proven incapable of producing consistent greens that match the course design they chose.

> > >

> > > Pushing greens so far that there is loss of turf. Pebble, Shinnecock and Chambers were incredible prior to the weeks leading up to the Opens. Chambers greens in particular were embarrassingly bad.

> > >

> > > Pebble is in beautiful condition as of last week. Greens are great although we’re soft after the recent rains. They can dry them out in 3 days with no rain, and pace will pick up. Will they push them so hard they start losing turf and create that familiar bumpy/crazy fast poa the USGA is so well I own for?

> > >

> > > Will the 9th and 10th fairways get so fast that keeping a ball on the fairway not running off towards the cliffs?

> > >

> > > Right now, Pebble is ready to be a great venue. Very tight in spots, greens are very consistent and healthy. Can they resist the urge to push just past the edge instead of right up to it?

> > >

> > >

> > Throw out Chambers, that was an anomaly that was no ones fault and beyond human control.

> >

>

> Chambers greens a couple months prior to the open, were no doubt poa infested, but were actually quite solid. The drying out and shaving of the poa, stressed and created the bumpy mess we witnessed. It’s happened at Pebble the last few times as well. Trying to force the speed and concrete firmness on a plant that at its best grows inconsistently and is easy to stress is asking for problems.

> Again, pushing to just over the line seems to be the problem, rather than pushing up to that line.

>

> Of course they go to Erin after that and basically play a Web.com course on the RTJ trail conditions :)

 

Not to be a total d*** because you played and know what you’re talking about but again it wasn’t a USGA setup issue that poa was a problem exacerbated by Mother Nature...not the USGA or course maintenance.

[Rangeballz]

I don't believe it's the players' or our place to tell the USGA how to spend their money, how big the purse should be, etc. Having said that, i'd be interested in seeing how they are spending the huge windfall from the TV deal with Fox. And "Other, 24 million" seems a little vague.

[ebrasmus21]

> @Rangeballz said:

> I don't believe it's the players or our place to tell the USGA how to spend their money, how big the purse should be, etc. Having said that, i'd be interested in seeing how they are spending the huge windfall from the TV deal with Fox. And "Other, 24 million" seems a little vague.

 

I want the USGA's money more then they want their money. They should give it to me.

[buckeyefl]

> @BNGL said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > >

> > > > > Dave. Come on. Many many people have worked on maintenance crews , as assistant greens keepers etc growing up. Myself included. Many golf professionals included. Does that make me a Superintendent? **** no. But. I know enough about the cake batter to know that the USga kills things on purpose. When the consultants said at shinecock “ the course needs water “ and you add none. Guess what ? You get to paint the greens for TV to make them appear alive , within 48 hours or less. To suggest that they aren’t at fault for any agronomy issues for the week , with all they have at their disposal is just not true. Short of a swarm of pestilence , a famine , or a power grid failure coupled with a 3 month drought , they can handle anything . And even then they have the resources for a generator to run the pump house . I don’t see a way to shrug off their actions as anything but purposeful obtuseness.

> > > >

> > > > If you can find anyplace where I've suggested that the USGA didn't screw some things up, please quote it. I never have. If we want to discuss things, we should probably deal with the things we actually say.

> > >

> > > I certainly read where you suggest that those complaining don’t know what goes into keeping a course in top shape.

> > >

> > > I’m saying you aren’t calling the screw ups for what they are. Not screw ups. But intentional Mickey Mouse setups. Setups that do not benefit the course or the tournament.

> >

> > The guys complaining really don't have no clue about what it takes. How many of these current players actually had to work on a grounds crew growing up, or during their college days? They're way too busy with practice and tournament play in those years, they didn't have time to spend 40 or 50 hours a week riding a mower, or cutting cups, or digging out leaky sprinkler heads.

> > We're not going to agree. I'm glad that the US Open has traditionally and intentionally stood out from the rest, that it is substantially more difficult than your average Ti-D-Bowl Invitational. I honestly don't care if they change the character of the courses a bit to make that happen, even beyond simply growing more and deeper rough and firming up the greens. I don't like seeing truly impossible conditions, but i do enjoy seeing difficult conditions. Use a label like "Mickey Mouse" if you prefer, but I like seeing the guys tested sometimes.

>

> If anyone cares, because facts aren’t usually kosher on this site. I’ve worked US Opens (Oakmont; Cabrera and Johnson). The USGA never intentionally kills anything, I was at Shinnecock last year (not a part of the grounds crew) but I walked inside the ropes all week walked a couple greens Monday Tuesday they weren’t dead then.

> The issue to me is neither the course nor players are the story, it’s always the mistakes in setup. Mike Davis is a liar...flat out I wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire. The elder gentlemen who preceded is as well, his name escapes me at the moment. I’m more apt to share the latter story because it’s public and something he said on live tv, Mike is personal I don’t know as that he’s on here but if 15th wants to set it up and invite I’ll debate him.

> He was talking about the last setup at Shinnecock about a rogue greenskeeper rolled the green when it wasn’t supposed to be. That’s total BS. It’s just flat out wrong and an impossibility, there’s no chance it happened because there’s so many eyes on everyone from the USGA to the actual grounds crew. It’s not yocals working these clubs the briefings are so detailed and specific, no crew member that doesn’t know the holes and layout is going to be on a machine of any consequence.

>

> There’s no problem testing golfers, but keep it fair. If 20 under gets it because someone plays exceptionally well good for him.

>

 

I've never heard that story but wow is that a load. No way in the world that happened.

 

Edit for clarity. No way someone rolled the green by accident.

[BNGL]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dave. Come on. Many many people have worked on maintenance crews , as assistant greens keepers etc growing up. Myself included. Many golf professionals included. Does that make me a Superintendent? **** no. But. I know enough about the cake batter to know that the USga kills things on purpose. When the consultants said at shinecock “ the course needs water “ and you add none. Guess what ? You get to paint the greens for TV to make them appear alive , within 48 hours or less. To suggest that they aren’t at fault for any agronomy issues for the week , with all they have at their disposal is just not true. Short of a swarm of pestilence , a famine , or a power grid failure coupled with a 3 month drought , they can handle anything . And even then they have the resources for a generator to run the pump house . I don’t see a way to shrug off their actions as anything but purposeful obtuseness.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you can find anyplace where I've suggested that the USGA didn't screw some things up, please quote it. I never have. If we want to discuss things, we should probably deal with the things we actually say.

> > > >

> > > > I certainly read where you suggest that those complaining don’t know what goes into keeping a course in top shape.

> > > >

> > > > I’m saying you aren’t calling the screw ups for what they are. Not screw ups. But intentional Mickey Mouse setups. Setups that do not benefit the course or the tournament.

> > >

> > > The guys complaining really don't have no clue about what it takes. How many of these current players actually had to work on a grounds crew growing up, or during their college days? They're way too busy with practice and tournament play in those years, they didn't have time to spend 40 or 50 hours a week riding a mower, or cutting cups, or digging out leaky sprinkler heads.

> > > We're not going to agree. I'm glad that the US Open has traditionally and intentionally stood out from the rest, that it is substantially more difficult than your average Ti-D-Bowl Invitational. I honestly don't care if they change the character of the courses a bit to make that happen, even beyond simply growing more and deeper rough and firming up the greens. I don't like seeing truly impossible conditions, but i do enjoy seeing difficult conditions. Use a label like "Mickey Mouse" if you prefer, but I like seeing the guys tested sometimes.

> >

> > If anyone cares, because facts aren’t usually kosher on this site. I’ve worked US Opens (Oakmont; Cabrera and Johnson). The USGA never intentionally kills anything, I was at Shinnecock last year (not a part of the grounds crew) but I walked inside the ropes all week walked a couple greens Monday Tuesday they weren’t dead then.

> > The issue to me is neither the course nor players are the story, it’s always the mistakes in setup. Mike Davis is a liar...flat out I wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire. The elder gentlemen who preceded is as well, his name escapes me at the moment. I’m more apt to share the latter story because it’s public and something he said on live tv, Mike is personal I don’t know as that he’s on here but if 15th wants to set it up and invite I’ll debate him.

> > He was talking about the last setup at Shinnecock about a rogue greenskeeper rolled the green when it wasn’t supposed to be. That’s total BS. It’s just flat out wrong and an impossibility, there’s no chance it happened because there’s so many eyes on everyone from the USGA to the actual grounds crew. It’s not yocals working these clubs the briefings are so detailed and specific, no crew member that doesn’t know the holes and layout is going to be on a machine of any consequence.

> >

> > There’s no problem testing golfers, but keep it fair. If 20 under gets it because someone plays exceptionally well good for him.

> >

>

> I've never heard that story but wow is that a load. No way in the world that happened.

 

Yes Caniac6 brought it to my attention last summer: here’s screenshots. The My club is in Florida right on the ocean is in reference to Mike being surprised the wind would come off the ocean as much as it does.

 

 

[GeorgeHWB]

> @Ferguson said:

> > @"Mr. Hogan" said:

> > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > @"Mr. Hogan" said:

> > > > > @ebrasmus21 said:

> > > >

> > > > > If I’m anti-USGA does that make me a commie ba$tard?

> > > >

> > > > Not at all. The USGA is an embarrassment to the United States. They should be stripped of the privilege to use "United States" in their title.

> > >

> > >

> > > Does anyone else feel as though Mr. Hogan could be a former USGA employee and was not exactly happy with his gold watch when he retired?

> > >

> > >

> > > Why can't I comment on WRX today with the mobile app?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I would never work for that organization. I'd rather pick up trash by the roadside with a prison chain gang. Unless the prison chain gang was made up of USGA executives. And then, no, I'd pass on that.

>

>

> Understood. The USGA is aimless and purposeless.

>

> So, if you did go to prison - what "would" you have done to get in?

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

Slugging an idiot at a golf tournament who was shouting "get in the hole" or some other nonsense after a tee shot.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @"Mr. Hogan" said:

> > @Ferguson said:

> > > @"Mr. Hogan" said:

> > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > @"Mr. Hogan" said:

> > > > > > @ebrasmus21 said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > If I’m anti-USGA does that make me a commie ba$tard?

> > > > >

> > > > > Not at all. The USGA is an embarrassment to the United States. They should be stripped of the privilege to use "United States" in their title.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone else feel as though Mr. Hogan could be a former USGA employee and was not exactly happy with his gold watch when he retired?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Why can't I comment on WRX today with the mobile app?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I would never work for that organization. I'd rather pick up trash by the roadside with a prison chain gang. Unless the prison chain gang was made up of USGA executives. And then, no, I'd pass on that.

> >

> >

> > Understood. The USGA is aimless and purposeless.

> >

> > So, if you did go to prison - what "would" you have done to get in?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Slugging an idiot at a golf tournament who was shouting "get in the hole" or some other nonsense after a tee shot.

 

But you'd at least have legendary status on WRX, so you'd have that going for you :)

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @Rangeballz said:

> I don't believe it's the players' or our place to tell the USGA how to spend their money, how big the purse should be, etc. Having said that, i'd be interested in seeing how they are spending the huge windfall from the TV deal with Fox. And "Other, 24 million" seems a little vague.

 

Well near 7 figure salaries with golden benefits for the executive team is likely one place the money has flowed.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @BNGL said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > >

> > > > > Dave. Come on. Many many people have worked on maintenance crews , as assistant greens keepers etc growing up. Myself included. Many golf professionals included. Does that make me a Superintendent? **** no. But. I know enough about the cake batter to know that the USga kills things on purpose. When the consultants said at shinecock “ the course needs water “ and you add none. Guess what ? You get to paint the greens for TV to make them appear alive , within 48 hours or less. To suggest that they aren’t at fault for any agronomy issues for the week , with all they have at their disposal is just not true. Short of a swarm of pestilence , a famine , or a power grid failure coupled with a 3 month drought , they can handle anything . And even then they have the resources for a generator to run the pump house . I don’t see a way to shrug off their actions as anything but purposeful obtuseness.

> > > >

> > > > If you can find anyplace where I've suggested that the USGA didn't screw some things up, please quote it. I never have. If we want to discuss things, we should probably deal with the things we actually say.

> > >

> > > I certainly read where you suggest that those complaining don’t know what goes into keeping a course in top shape.

> > >

> > > I’m saying you aren’t calling the screw ups for what they are. Not screw ups. But intentional Mickey Mouse setups. Setups that do not benefit the course or the tournament.

> >

> > The guys complaining really don't have no clue about what it takes. How many of these current players actually had to work on a grounds crew growing up, or during their college days? They're way too busy with practice and tournament play in those years, they didn't have time to spend 40 or 50 hours a week riding a mower, or cutting cups, or digging out leaky sprinkler heads.

> > We're not going to agree. I'm glad that the US Open has traditionally and intentionally stood out from the rest, that it is substantially more difficult than your average Ti-D-Bowl Invitational. I honestly don't care if they change the character of the courses a bit to make that happen, even beyond simply growing more and deeper rough and firming up the greens. I don't like seeing truly impossible conditions, but i do enjoy seeing difficult conditions. Use a label like "Mickey Mouse" if you prefer, but I like seeing the guys tested sometimes.

>

> If anyone cares, because facts aren’t usually kosher on this site. I’ve worked US Opens (Oakmont; Cabrera and Johnson). The USGA never intentionally kills anything, I was at Shinnecock last year (not a part of the grounds crew) but I walked inside the ropes all week walked a couple greens Monday Tuesday they weren’t dead then.

> The issue to me is neither the course nor players are the story, it’s always the mistakes in setup. Mike Davis is a liar...flat out I wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire. The elder gentlemen who preceded is as well, his name escapes me at the moment. I’m more apt to share the latter story because it’s public and something he said on live tv, Mike is personal I don’t know as that he’s on here but if 15th wants to set it up and invite I’ll debate him.

> He was talking about the last setup at Shinnecock about a rogue greenskeeper rolled the green when it wasn’t supposed to be. That’s total BS. It’s just flat out wrong and an impossibility, there’s no chance it happened because there’s so many eyes on everyone from the USGA to the actual grounds crew. It’s not yocals working these clubs the briefings are so detailed and specific, no crew member that doesn’t know the holes and layout is going to be on a machine of any consequence.

>

> There’s no problem testing golfers, but keep it fair. If 20 under gets it because someone plays exceptionally well good for him.

>

Thanks for sharing the insider info.

We already know the USGA are liars. They told us there was "overwhelming support for a global handicap system"... in reality it was about 0.05% of USGA membership that said they were interested in a GHS.

[GeorgeHWB]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > @"Mr. Hogan" said:

> > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > @"Mr. Hogan" said:

> > > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > > @"Mr. Hogan" said:

> > > > > > > @ebrasmus21 said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > If I’m anti-USGA does that make me a commie ba$tard?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not at all. The USGA is an embarrassment to the United States. They should be stripped of the privilege to use "United States" in their title.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Does anyone else feel as though Mr. Hogan could be a former USGA employee and was not exactly happy with his gold watch when he retired?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Why can't I comment on WRX today with the mobile app?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I would never work for that organization. I'd rather pick up trash by the roadside with a prison chain gang. Unless the prison chain gang was made up of USGA executives. And then, no, I'd pass on that.

> > >

> > >

> > > Understood. The USGA is aimless and purposeless.

> > >

> > > So, if you did go to prison - what "would" you have done to get in?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Slugging an idiot at a golf tournament who was shouting "get in the hole" or some other nonsense after a tee shot.

>

> But you'd at least have legendary status on WRX, so you'd have that going for you :)

 

One of my favorite articles of all time.

https://newsthump.com/2011/04/11/man-who-shouted-%E2%80%98get-in-the-hole%E2%80%99-at-masters-badly-beaten-by-angry-mob/

 

"Korean player KJ Choi, who ended the day in joint second with eight under par, was spotted wading into the crowd and landing several wild haymakers on the victim."

[Forged4ever]

> @nsxguy said:

 

> **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> **

> LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

>

>

 

I betcha that Woosy’s caddie would have loved to have been patronized & insulted by the R&A??

 

That lil lapse in The British Open cost Ian a birdie to a bogie(2 strokes), a share of the lead at the time and a runner-up finish & ultimately £218,334 and an automatic berth on that Ryder Cup team(which he didn’t get).

 

This is what I spoke to as yes, there are some legitimate issues however these are not stupid men and women, unlike the idiot that made that statement, lol

 

Unfortunately, ya can’t fix stupid?

 

Nice post NSC??!

 

Cheers?

RP

[flip flappy]

I just glanced at the US Women's Open thread and got to thinking about how the USGA handle the set up and how far they push course on the weekend. I have not paid much attention to the Women's Open over the years and don't recall the women having the complaints that the men have. What do you all know about this?

[Murphy76]

> @BNGL said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > >

> > > > > Dave. Come on. Many many people have worked on maintenance crews , as assistant greens keepers etc growing up. Myself included. Many golf professionals included. Does that make me a Superintendent? **** no. But. I know enough about the cake batter to know that the USga kills things on purpose. When the consultants said at shinecock “ the course needs water “ and you add none. Guess what ? You get to paint the greens for TV to make them appear alive , within 48 hours or less. To suggest that they aren’t at fault for any agronomy issues for the week , with all they have at their disposal is just not true. Short of a swarm of pestilence , a famine , or a power grid failure coupled with a 3 month drought , they can handle anything . And even then they have the resources for a generator to run the pump house . I don’t see a way to shrug off their actions as anything but purposeful obtuseness.

> > > >

> > > > If you can find anyplace where I've suggested that the USGA didn't screw some things up, please quote it. I never have. If we want to discuss things, we should probably deal with the things we actually say.

> > >

> > > I certainly read where you suggest that those complaining don’t know what goes into keeping a course in top shape.

> > >

> > > I’m saying you aren’t calling the screw ups for what they are. Not screw ups. But intentional Mickey Mouse setups. Setups that do not benefit the course or the tournament.

> >

> > The guys complaining really don't have no clue about what it takes. How many of these current players actually had to work on a grounds crew growing up, or during their college days? They're way too busy with practice and tournament play in those years, they didn't have time to spend 40 or 50 hours a week riding a mower, or cutting cups, or digging out leaky sprinkler heads.

> > We're not going to agree. I'm glad that the US Open has traditionally and intentionally stood out from the rest, that it is substantially more difficult than your average Ti-D-Bowl Invitational. I honestly don't care if they change the character of the courses a bit to make that happen, even beyond simply growing more and deeper rough and firming up the greens. I don't like seeing truly impossible conditions, but i do enjoy seeing difficult conditions. Use a label like "Mickey Mouse" if you prefer, but I like seeing the guys tested sometimes.

>

> If anyone cares, because facts aren’t usually kosher on this site. I’ve worked US Opens (Oakmont; Cabrera and Johnson). The USGA never intentionally kills anything, I was at Shinnecock last year (not a part of the grounds crew) but I walked inside the ropes all week walked a couple greens Monday Tuesday they weren’t dead then.

> The issue to me is neither the course nor players are the story, it’s always the mistakes in setup. Mike Davis is a liar...flat out I wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire. The elder gentlemen who preceded is as well, his name escapes me at the moment. I’m more apt to share the latter story because it’s public and something he said on live tv, Mike is personal I don’t know as that he’s on here but if 15th wants to set it up and invite I’ll debate him.

> He was talking about the last setup at Shinnecock about a rogue greenskeeper rolled the green when it wasn’t supposed to be. That’s total BS. It’s just flat out wrong and an impossibility, there’s no chance it happened because there’s so many eyes on everyone from the USGA to the actual grounds crew. It’s not yocals working these clubs the briefings are so detailed and specific, no crew member that doesn’t know the holes and layout is going to be on a machine of any consequence.

>

> There’s no problem testing golfers, but keep it fair. If 20 under gets it because someone plays exceptionally well good for him.

>

 

Rogue Greenskeeper. That sounds like a Batman villain from the 1960's. POW! Zork! Boof!

 

[BIG STU]

> @bladehunter said:

>

>

> > @BMC said:

> > Running the US Open is a very small part of what the USGA does. Some pampered tour pros just complaining.

> > Thousands of amateurs playing in hundreds of tournaments a year don't seem to have any problem with the USGA.

>

> Not true. Talk to any player who’s a USga regular and they will tell you a story of some sort of buffoonery. But ams don’t have any voice. It’s put up with them or don’t play.

 

But the USGA is more than willing to take their hard earned money for membership fees and tournament entry fees---- After all if you pay the membership fee you are a Member right? But yet you have no voice---- Screw em I will keep my money in my pocket and they can keep all of their events, their little ballcaps and bag tags

[rangersgoalie]

> @BNGL said:

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > @BNGL said:

> > > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > > Lets talk greens...an association with a pretty solid and active agronomy consulting and research arm has given the Us Open.

> > > > Events where greens had to be maintained at different speeds due to the desire to make greens so fast it renders some greens unplayable or leaves one section of well designed greens unusable for hole locations. With many years to prepare for an event, they have proven incapable of producing consistent greens that match the course design they chose.

> > > >

> > > > Pushing greens so far that there is loss of turf. Pebble, Shinnecock and Chambers were incredible prior to the weeks leading up to the Opens. Chambers greens in particular were embarrassingly bad.

> > > >

> > > > Pebble is in beautiful condition as of last week. Greens are great although we’re soft after the recent rains. They can dry them out in 3 days with no rain, and pace will pick up. Will they push them so hard they start losing turf and create that familiar bumpy/crazy fast poa the USGA is so well I own for?

> > > >

> > > > Will the 9th and 10th fairways get so fast that keeping a ball on the fairway not running off towards the cliffs?

> > > >

> > > > Right now, Pebble is ready to be a great venue. Very tight in spots, greens are very consistent and healthy. Can they resist the urge to push just past the edge instead of right up to it?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > Throw out Chambers, that was an anomaly that was no ones fault and beyond human control.

> > >

> >

> > Chambers greens a couple months prior to the open, were no doubt poa infested, but were actually quite solid. The drying out and shaving of the poa, stressed and created the bumpy mess we witnessed. It’s happened at Pebble the last few times as well. Trying to force the speed and concrete firmness on a plant that at its best grows inconsistently and is easy to stress is asking for problems.

> > Again, pushing to just over the line seems to be the problem, rather than pushing up to that line.

> >

> > Of course they go to Erin after that and basically play a Web.com course on the RTJ trail conditions :)

>

> Not to be a total d*** because you played and know what you’re talking about but again it wasn’t a USGA setup issue that poa was a problem exacerbated by Mother Nature...not the USGA or course maintenance.

 

No problem at all Bngl

All I know is that poa annua and all, the greens at Chambers Bay were not as bumpy and terrible a little over a month prior to the open. Stressing and scalping poa in my not so expert opinion is asking for the bumpy crap that poa is infamous for....but I’m good with your report as well

 

What the USGA really needs to do is go the royal Melbourne and learn how to produce insanely fast greens for tournaments that still can be putted on with good nerves, touch, and brains.

[mcputter]

> @Murphy76 said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dave. Come on. Many many people have worked on maintenance crews , as assistant greens keepers etc growing up. Myself included. Many golf professionals included. Does that make me a Superintendent? **** no. But. I know enough about the cake batter to know that the USga kills things on purpose. When the consultants said at shinecock “ the course needs water “ and you add none. Guess what ? You get to paint the greens for TV to make them appear alive , within 48 hours or less. To suggest that they aren’t at fault for any agronomy issues for the week , with all they have at their disposal is just not true. Short of a swarm of pestilence , a famine , or a power grid failure coupled with a 3 month drought , they can handle anything . And even then they have the resources for a generator to run the pump house . I don’t see a way to shrug off their actions as anything but purposeful obtuseness.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you can find anyplace where I've suggested that the USGA didn't screw some things up, please quote it. I never have. If we want to discuss things, we should probably deal with the things we actually say.

> > > >

> > > > I certainly read where you suggest that those complaining don’t know what goes into keeping a course in top shape.

> > > >

> > > > I’m saying you aren’t calling the screw ups for what they are. Not screw ups. But intentional Mickey Mouse setups. Setups that do not benefit the course or the tournament.

> > >

> > > The guys complaining really don't have no clue about what it takes. How many of these current players actually had to work on a grounds crew growing up, or during their college days? They're way too busy with practice and tournament play in those years, they didn't have time to spend 40 or 50 hours a week riding a mower, or cutting cups, or digging out leaky sprinkler heads.

> > > We're not going to agree. I'm glad that the US Open has traditionally and intentionally stood out from the rest, that it is substantially more difficult than your average Ti-D-Bowl Invitational. I honestly don't care if they change the character of the courses a bit to make that happen, even beyond simply growing more and deeper rough and firming up the greens. I don't like seeing truly impossible conditions, but i do enjoy seeing difficult conditions. Use a label like "Mickey Mouse" if you prefer, but I like seeing the guys tested sometimes.

> >

> > If anyone cares, because facts aren’t usually kosher on this site. I’ve worked US Opens (Oakmont; Cabrera and Johnson). The USGA never intentionally kills anything, I was at Shinnecock last year (not a part of the grounds crew) but I walked inside the ropes all week walked a couple greens Monday Tuesday they weren’t dead then.

> > The issue to me is neither the course nor players are the story, it’s always the mistakes in setup. Mike Davis is a liar...flat out I wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire. The elder gentlemen who preceded is as well, his name escapes me at the moment. I’m more apt to share the latter story because it’s public and something he said on live tv, Mike is personal I don’t know as that he’s on here but if 15th wants to set it up and invite I’ll debate him.

> > He was talking about the last setup at Shinnecock about a rogue greenskeeper rolled the green when it wasn’t supposed to be. That’s total BS. It’s just flat out wrong and an impossibility, there’s no chance it happened because there’s so many eyes on everyone from the USGA to the actual grounds crew. It’s not yocals working these clubs the briefings are so detailed and specific, no crew member that doesn’t know the holes and layout is going to be on a machine of any consequence.

> >

> > There’s no problem testing golfers, but keep it fair. If 20 under gets it because someone plays exceptionally well good for him.

> >

>

> Rogue Greenskeeper. That sounds like a Batman villain from the 1960's. POW! Zork! Boof!

>

 

Rogue Greenskeeper. That may be my new screen name. I bet I could find a cool avatar.

[bladehunter]

> @BNGL said:

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > @BNGL said:

> > > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > > Lets talk greens...an association with a pretty solid and active agronomy consulting and research arm has given the Us Open.

> > > > Events where greens had to be maintained at different speeds due to the desire to make greens so fast it renders some greens unplayable or leaves one section of well designed greens unusable for hole locations. With many years to prepare for an event, they have proven incapable of producing consistent greens that match the course design they chose.

> > > >

> > > > Pushing greens so far that there is loss of turf. Pebble, Shinnecock and Chambers were incredible prior to the weeks leading up to the Opens. Chambers greens in particular were embarrassingly bad.

> > > >

> > > > Pebble is in beautiful condition as of last week. Greens are great although we’re soft after the recent rains. They can dry them out in 3 days with no rain, and pace will pick up. Will they push them so hard they start losing turf and create that familiar bumpy/crazy fast poa the USGA is so well I own for?

> > > >

> > > > Will the 9th and 10th fairways get so fast that keeping a ball on the fairway not running off towards the cliffs?

> > > >

> > > > Right now, Pebble is ready to be a great venue. Very tight in spots, greens are very consistent and healthy. Can they resist the urge to push just past the edge instead of right up to it?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > Throw out Chambers, that was an anomaly that was no ones fault and beyond human control.

> > >

> >

> > Chambers greens a couple months prior to the open, were no doubt poa infested, but were actually quite solid. The drying out and shaving of the poa, stressed and created the bumpy mess we witnessed. It’s happened at Pebble the last few times as well. Trying to force the speed and concrete firmness on a plant that at its best grows inconsistently and is easy to stress is asking for problems.

> > Again, pushing to just over the line seems to be the problem, rather than pushing up to that line.

> >

> > Of course they go to Erin after that and basically play a Web.com course on the RTJ trail conditions :)

>

> Not to be a total d*** because you played and know what you’re talking about but again it wasn’t a USGA setup issue that poa was a problem exacerbated by Mother Nature...not the USGA or course maintenance.

 

**Preface-** - this is a question. So nobody take it as anything but.

 

 

Can you elaborate as to what you mean ? I’m quite interested as a guy who was a maintenance shed grunt up to assistant in a span of 6 years. I can tell you that I don’t know the answer at chambers , if that helps. And I have no (0) experience on poa or fescue. Bermuda and pencross bent is all I’ve worked on. Again. Serious , curious question.

 

[BIG STU]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @umassgolfer said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @umassgolfer said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @umassgolfer said:

> > > > > > I am by NO MEANS a USGA apologist, and I think the way they have pushed US Open courses to and past the edge recently has made it more a game of chance vs. skill. Now, it is obviously "cool" to bash on the USGA and they deserve much of the criticism, but It doesn't take a piling-on list of anonymous quotes to teach us the US Open has become a bit of a joke due to course set-ups. The best (and maybe only) constructive comment in the article was that the TOURs need to have some input, even if not final decision making power, over set-ups, or get someone like Geoff Ogilvy to help out.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I respect the opinions and perspective of those who spoke up for the article. However, I think the comments not related to course set-up come from a very narrow view and place of frustration that the USGA does not solely serve to please the professional game. The PGA TOUR is an organization whose purpose is to serve the players - so of course they'll like those events best. On the other hand, USGA's mission is supposedly attempting to serve the 20 million+ non-professional golfing masses, not the 1,000 or so touring professionals in the world.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Further, with us not having seen the "pie chart" and not knowing what the $25 million "other" bucket was, it is ignorant and selfish of the players to think the USGA's payout ratio to revenue would be the same as the TOUR. This is the USGA's fundraiser for the year, to support the amateur, senior, women's events, all of their other initiatives, etc. I'd imagine a good bit of that "other" goes to supporting those events. Also - imagine the outrage if the players knew the percentage of revenue the Masters paid out - can't imagine that compares favorably.

> > > > >

> > > > > On the surface sure. But look a bit deeper. Why if questioned would yo I show up with a pie chart. One with a $25mil slice that’s no allocated to any place. That person quoted With that said explicitly that if they showed to be using that money to “ grow or further the game “ then it’s all good. But usually. ( nothing is 100% ) when a large Corp is asked to give an account of its self or spending and they show up with a $25mil blind spot , that means funny business going on. And for every snake you see ($25mil in this case ) there’s usually 20 or more they don’t show. Makes me wonder just how deep the pockets of this slush fund are ?

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully, both of our comments are 100% speculative. I choose to believe that represents an "unallocated/TBD fund" or towards some other above-board initiative(s), you think it is going into the execs' pockets. I'm sure the answer is somewhere in the middle, but ultimately it doesn't matter.

> > > >

> > > > The point I was trying to make is there are legitimate criticisms and the pros are uniquely qualified to weigh in on inside-the-ropes details, but complaining about the purse and revenue distribution comes off as petty at best and makes me take the rest of their complaints with a grain of salt. They're complaining about "only" playing for $2.1mil+ to the winner and $12mil total purse, which was the largest in golf by $1mil (9.09% higher than 2nd) until the PLAYERS came in this year with $12.5mil...

> > >

> > > Kind of like the ncaa pay the players a living wage argument. The work horses feel like their masters should up the sweet feed if the gross crop yield and/or acreage worked goes up. Only seems right that proportions stay relatively in line.

> >

> > All I am saying is it is not the place of the players, or any of us, to tell the USGA how to allocate their revenue. I would love to see the public reaction if a player put their name in front of a statement that the US Open didn't pay enough or a boycott based on "unfair revenue split".

> >

> > Players choose to play the tournament because it is a chance to become a Major Champion, and because of the sizeable purse offered. Last year's US Open paid $23k to the worst player making the cut, $79k for t-25, $221k for t-12, $2.16mil for a win. By comparison, last week at Colonial the purse was $7.3mil - which is right in the middle for this year's total prize money, including Majors, WGCs and FedEx Cup events: making the cut and finishing DFL paid out $14k, T-27 was worth $55k, T-13 was $136k and the winner took home $1.3mil.

> >

> >

>

> True. Except you’re leaving out the part where the quoted person said that they would be “fine with it if it was being used for the betterment of the game itself.” ( paraphrased) That person may very well be a USga member. Though they are not beholding to their membership entirely. It is dependent on the illusion that it is , I think. The idea that it represents the people. If they lose that completely ( already lost my money. And I only joined in 2014 then dropped after oakmont ) then the whole organization should be disbanded. In my opinion they are riding the fence of “ for the game and people “ and “ don’t tell us what to do with all this money “. Going to be hard to have both forever.

 

I dropped out myself over the groove rules and then the anchored putter ban. FTR I experimented with the anchored putter some and did not like it but had absolutely no problem with anyone using it. The groove rule gave me opportunity to stock up on my beloved 588 wedges cheap or free. I can remember for years they sent me all kinds of offers to renew my membership. It was ridiculous darn near every week. I used to send their pre paid envelopes back--empty--- I think they maybe got the message and I believe they have shills monitoring this site and other sites. I hope they do monitor this site and the other one I go on. I proudly state I am probably the biggest USGA detractor on both boards. I do not play comps or any stipulated events so I play what equipment I want to. One of the little things I started on here was the OGA or Outlaw Golf Association . In other words Screw the USGA play what equipment you want to and have FUN doing it

[ea19]

I think the money aspect is very interesting. Due to the TV contracts, the revenue to the USGA went from $38M to $93M - more than doubling. But the purse went up 20% max.

 

Meanwhile in other sports like NFL and NBA - the players are getting roughly or close to 50% of the revenue.

 

I would think that alone would highly irritate the players.

[BNGL]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > > @BNGL said:

> > > > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > > > Lets talk greens...an association with a pretty solid and active agronomy consulting and research arm has given the Us Open.

> > > > > Events where greens had to be maintained at different speeds due to the desire to make greens so fast it renders some greens unplayable or leaves one section of well designed greens unusable for hole locations. With many years to prepare for an event, they have proven incapable of producing consistent greens that match the course design they chose.

> > > > >

> > > > > Pushing greens so far that there is loss of turf. Pebble, Shinnecock and Chambers were incredible prior to the weeks leading up to the Opens. Chambers greens in particular were embarrassingly bad.

> > > > >

> > > > > Pebble is in beautiful condition as of last week. Greens are great although we’re soft after the recent rains. They can dry them out in 3 days with no rain, and pace will pick up. Will they push them so hard they start losing turf and create that familiar bumpy/crazy fast poa the USGA is so well I own for?

> > > > >

> > > > > Will the 9th and 10th fairways get so fast that keeping a ball on the fairway not running off towards the cliffs?

> > > > >

> > > > > Right now, Pebble is ready to be a great venue. Very tight in spots, greens are very consistent and healthy. Can they resist the urge to push just past the edge instead of right up to it?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > Throw out Chambers, that was an anomaly that was no ones fault and beyond human control.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Chambers greens a couple months prior to the open, were no doubt poa infested, but were actually quite solid. The drying out and shaving of the poa, stressed and created the bumpy mess we witnessed. It’s happened at Pebble the last few times as well. Trying to force the speed and concrete firmness on a plant that at its best grows inconsistently and is easy to stress is asking for problems.

> > > Again, pushing to just over the line seems to be the problem, rather than pushing up to that line.

> > >

> > > Of course they go to Erin after that and basically play a Web.com course on the RTJ trail conditions :)

> >

> > Not to be a total d*** because you played and know what you’re talking about but again it wasn’t a USGA setup issue that poa was a problem exacerbated by Mother Nature...not the USGA or course maintenance.

>

> **Preface-** - this is a question. So nobody take it as anything but.

>

>

> Can you elaborate as to what you mean ? I’m quite interested as a guy who was a maintenance shed grunt up to assistant in a span of 6 years. I can tell you that I don’t know the answer at chambers , if that helps. And I have no (0) experience on poa or fescue. Bermuda and pencross bent is all I’ve worked on. Again. Serious , curious question.

>

 

Where to begin...let’s start at the beginning I guess (how original lol).

 

So Chambers was originally built with fescue greens, which is perfect for the climate in the Northwest i.e. cooler, heading into that US Open, Tacoma had set multiple records for high temperatures and fescue when it gets warm shuts down and when that happens it opens the door for other species to invade. Trouble was is that the heat was a terrific catalyst for an explosion of poa growth which was already present, and present nearly everywhere on every golf course (particularly annual, not perennial that’s found at Oakmont).

 

Just off the timeline I remember for our Opens water would have been reduced around 2.5-3 months before the tournament proper, which makes it April-ish end of March? I’d reckon the number was 18 percent or so in reduction. Plus nitrogen fertilizers would be stopped as well. So what that does is it firms out the course, less water, and makes it faster, thinner leaf blades (A reduction of N will shrink the leaf blade thinner blade means less friction, less friction imparted on the golf ball means faster speeds). The weather didn’t cooperate I think 2 weeks plus of mid 80s and by the time everyone realized the usual rains weren’t coming it was too late. The fescue checked out, (DID NOT DIE), and the poa exploded because they tried to water to save the fescue. What happens to poa when you water it? It grows...typically much faster than surrounding turf. You can brush it and groom it, but doing that on US Open greens would have made them unputtable because green speeds would have been ridiculous for the amount of undulation in those greens.

 

So in conclusion you had the first US Open ever to be conducted on fescue greens. Normal tournament setup procedures were followed incorporating past weather patterns. Weather didn’t corporate, it stayed hot with no typical rains. Fescue checks out, poa explodes.

 

[MtlJeff]

> @BNGL said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > >

> > > > > Dave. Come on. Many many people have worked on maintenance crews , as assistant greens keepers etc growing up. Myself included. Many golf professionals included. Does that make me a Superintendent? **** no. But. I know enough about the cake batter to know that the USga kills things on purpose. When the consultants said at shinecock “ the course needs water “ and you add none. Guess what ? You get to paint the greens for TV to make them appear alive , within 48 hours or less. To suggest that they aren’t at fault for any agronomy issues for the week , with all they have at their disposal is just not true. Short of a swarm of pestilence , a famine , or a power grid failure coupled with a 3 month drought , they can handle anything . And even then they have the resources for a generator to run the pump house . I don’t see a way to shrug off their actions as anything but purposeful obtuseness.

> > > >

> > > > If you can find anyplace where I've suggested that the USGA didn't screw some things up, please quote it. I never have. If we want to discuss things, we should probably deal with the things we actually say.

> > >

> > > I certainly read where you suggest that those complaining don’t know what goes into keeping a course in top shape.

> > >

> > > I’m saying you aren’t calling the screw ups for what they are. Not screw ups. But intentional Mickey Mouse setups. Setups that do not benefit the course or the tournament.

> >

> > The guys complaining really don't have no clue about what it takes. How many of these current players actually had to work on a grounds crew growing up, or during their college days? They're way too busy with practice and tournament play in those years, they didn't have time to spend 40 or 50 hours a week riding a mower, or cutting cups, or digging out leaky sprinkler heads.

> > We're not going to agree. I'm glad that the US Open has traditionally and intentionally stood out from the rest, that it is substantially more difficult than your average Ti-D-Bowl Invitational. I honestly don't care if they change the character of the courses a bit to make that happen, even beyond simply growing more and deeper rough and firming up the greens. I don't like seeing truly impossible conditions, but i do enjoy seeing difficult conditions. Use a label like "Mickey Mouse" if you prefer, but I like seeing the guys tested sometimes.

>

> If anyone cares, because facts aren’t usually kosher on this site. I’ve worked US Opens (Oakmont; Cabrera and Johnson). The USGA never intentionally kills anything, I was at Shinnecock last year (not a part of the grounds crew) but I walked inside the ropes all week walked a couple greens Monday Tuesday they weren’t dead then.

> The issue to me is neither the course nor players are the story, it’s always the mistakes in setup. Mike Davis is a liar...flat out I wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire. The elder gentlemen who preceded is as well, his name escapes me at the moment. I’m more apt to share the latter story because it’s public and something he said on live tv, Mike is personal I don’t know as that he’s on here but if 15th wants to set it up and invite I’ll debate him.

> He was talking about the last setup at Shinnecock about a rogue greenskeeper rolled the green when it wasn’t supposed to be. That’s total BS. It’s just flat out wrong and an impossibility, there’s no chance it happened because there’s so many eyes on everyone from the USGA to the actual grounds crew. It’s not yocals working these clubs the briefings are so detailed and specific, no crew member that doesn’t know the holes and layout is going to be on a machine of any consequence.

>

> There’s no problem testing golfers, but keep it fair. If 20 under gets it because someone plays exceptionally well good for him.

>

 

Tom Meeks preceded Mike Davis, he had some real gems, like Shinnecock 1.0, Bethpage where players couldn't reach the fairway one round, and some others

 

Shinnecock 1.0 might still be the all-time catastrophe. Didn't Ernie Els putt into a bunker when he had a 5 footer? It's probably son YouTube somewhere. Also remember guys balls bouncing off the 7th like basketballs