Where are you playing tomorrow - Chicago (Round 3)

[ldchristopher]

 

> Last comment...what the Cheese Whiz are some people thinking or not thinking? On the short par 4 12th hole, the group in front of us literally left a cart in the fairway and went to finish the hole leaving us waiting on the tee.

 

You answered your own question with the presence of a cart. Color me not shocked that guys in carts wouldn’t understand etiquette on a course. I feel kind of gross admitting this but Bear and I are going to be in a cart for 2 of six rounds we have next week in Southern Wisconsin. Might need to take an extra shower just to wash off the stink of playing a game the definitively wrong way. Gotta make some concessions to play 108 holes in three days.

[DeeBee30]

> @MountainKing said:

> Any recommendations for instructors reasonably close to the Oak Brook area that aren't $200 an hour? My swing has developed a ton of bad when looking at current video vs last year and the year before ect.

 

Not right next door to OB, but I’ve had good experience with Kevin Weeks at Cog Hill.

[DavePelz4]

> @ldchristopher said:

>

> > Last comment...what the Cheese Whiz are some people thinking or not thinking? On the short par 4 12th hole, the group in front of us literally left a cart in the fairway and went to finish the hole leaving us waiting on the tee.

>

> You answered your own question with the presence of a cart. Color me not shocked that guys in carts wouldn’t understand etiquette on a course. I feel kind of gross admitting this but Bear and I are going to be in a cart for 2 of six rounds we have next week in Southern Wisconsin. Might need to take an extra shower just to wash off the stink of playing a game the definitively wrong way. Gotta make some concessions to play 108 holes in three days.

 

I'm coming off a bad bout of osteoarthritis and have ridden my last 2 rounds. It's so different riding as I very rarely do it and can appreciate your thoughts. Walking brings some consistency for me in the pace between shots.

[MountainKing]

> @DeeBee30 said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > Any recommendations for instructors reasonably close to the Oak Brook area that aren't $200 an hour? My swing has developed a ton of bad when looking at current video vs last year and the year before ect.

>

> Not right next door to OB, but I’ve had good experience with Kevin Weeks at Cog Hill.

 

Kevin's $170 an hour. He's earned the right to charge that rate for sure, but having taken lessons from various instructors over the year, I've never found the high rates correlating to better teaching. Unfortunately the instructor I was using since I was a kid went to a private course a few years back and they don't allow the outside to come in for lessons like some courses do, and the dude I found after him moved out of state. . I know what I'm doing wrong, I just need somebody to help guide me to undo it by working on some feels that I can't seem to force my body into myself (that sounds bad). When I try to do it on my own I introduce a new bad habit into the swing, golf sucks. Anyway, I do appreciate the advice, it's a solid suggestion.

[mci711]

> @ldchristopher said:

>

> > Last comment...what the Cheese Whiz are some people thinking or not thinking? On the short par 4 12th hole, the group in front of us literally left a cart in the fairway and went to finish the hole leaving us waiting on the tee.

>

> You answered your own question with the presence of a cart. Color me not shocked that guys in carts wouldn’t understand etiquette on a course. I feel kind of gross admitting this but Bear and I are going to be in a cart for 2 of six rounds we have next week in Southern Wisconsin. Might need to take an extra shower just to wash off the stink of playing a game the definitively wrong way. Gotta make some concessions to play 108 holes in three days.

 

You do realize players like Justin Thomas, Rickie Fowler, some guy named Tiger woods etc (literally every professional i've ever seen playing outside an actual event) all use carts when they aren't playing professionally right?

[CRDuffy21]

> @MountainKing said:

> Any recommendations for instructors reasonably close to the Oak Brook area that aren't $200 an hour? My swing has developed a ton of bad when looking at current video vs last year and the year before ect.

 

I work with Gary Pinns out at Oak Brook Golf Course. I think he charges $120 an hour and I have been working with him for years. He's knowledgeable and very easy to comprehend. I usually take a lesson in the late Winter in the dome at White Pines, then another one early in the spring to knock the rust off. If you ask him to send you the videos he records of your swing, he will do that.

 

One tip that I don't see enough people do when taking lessons, if there is a "swing thought" or phrasing that a teacher uses that works for you, write it down. Text it to yourself or bring a little memo pad and write that thought or phrase down. Then, when things go bad or you start regressing back to old habits, you can take a little self taught mini-lesson with the stuff you wrote down. It has helped me numerous times.

[oldpalchamp]

> @MountainKing said:

> Any recommendations for instructors reasonably close to the Oak Brook area that aren't $200 an hour? My swing has developed a ton of bad when looking at current video vs last year and the year before ect.

 

Dan Kochevar teaches at Oak Brook Golf Club. Excellent teacher, uses video. Charges $120/hr. Highly recommend.

[TheBear95]

> @mci711 said:

> > @ldchristopher said:

> >

> > > Last comment...what the Cheese Whiz are some people thinking or not thinking? On the short par 4 12th hole, the group in front of us literally left a cart in the fairway and went to finish the hole leaving us waiting on the tee.

> >

> > You answered your own question with the presence of a cart. Color me not shocked that guys in carts wouldn’t understand etiquette on a course. I feel kind of gross admitting this but Bear and I are going to be in a cart for 2 of six rounds we have next week in Southern Wisconsin. Might need to take an extra shower just to wash off the stink of playing a game the definitively wrong way. Gotta make some concessions to play 108 holes in three days.

>

> You do realize players like Justin Thomas, Rickie Fowler, some guy named Tiger woods etc (literally every professional i've ever seen playing outside an actual event) all use carts when they aren't playing professionally right?

 

LD can get hot with his takes, but his general idea is not wrong. No matter what Justin Thomas or Rickie Fowler are doing. American golf, especially public golf, would be significantly better with a walking culture like the UK has. I see the cart problem every weekend.

 

- Far too many guys have no idea how to play ready golf in a cart. Instead of driving and dropping off, it is wait for one guy to hit, then find the other guy's ball.

- Unless you have two better players in the same cart, the cart twosome is typically all over the course. Guys lose track of their ball, don't play ready golf, etc.

- There's nothing wrong with a few beers when out playing, but if you're walking, you're not getting shitface on the course. But, for the group that wants to come out to pound beers, the cart facilitates this behavior. Again, pace of play issues.

- Carts stress the turf. They are not good for course conditions and when it rains a lot (see Chicagoland the past 7 years), courses need to go cart path only. Since guys hate cart path only, I'm amazed by the number of courses that let carts out in extremely wet conditions. And, of course, you see first-hand the damage that is being done.

- Finally, the predominance of carts have led to course designers to build bigger and more expansive facilities. Sometimes that works, but in some cases, courses have issues keeping up with maintenance and costs at these facilities over time. Especially at your mid-tier, mid-priced public options.

 

Now, I'm not saying that carts don't have their place and certainly some individuals need them to play the game. However, the game would be better if their influence was significantly diminished. I'm not delusional in thinking that this will ever happen, but that won't keep me from advocating my position.

[Argonne69]

Anybody interested in playing Brae Loch in Grayslake on Saturday morning? There are multiple open slots from 7:15 am - 8:00 am. I haven't played it, but it looks like your average parkland muni.

[mci711]

> @TheBear95 said:

> > @mci711 said:

> > > @ldchristopher said:

I don't disagree with most of this. I don't play weekend golf, I don't drink when I golf really either. The people that fit your stereotype drive me crazy as well, so I try to avoid it as much as possible. I prefer to walk and I prefer walking only courses. I will hardly ever walk if I am by myself or if there are carts on the course. I think every course should be one way or the other - walking only or carts only.

 

That being said, not all riders are fat, lazy, uneducated on golf and proper etiquette. My fiance doesn't like to walk anymore unless we are at a top course or a club with caddies. She was one of the top AJGA/high school golfers in the country, represented the US and played division 1 golf. My best friend played on mini tours, he hates walking now. Neither drink on the course, she is always around par, he is a +2. I think for a lot of good players walking was basically their job for years, they don't want to do it anymore.

 

Those people who get drunk on the course, don't know how to play ready golf and are bad golfers aren't going to speed up by walking. They may not play at all, which I am sure we would all love, but then every course would end up closing because they'd make no money. Golf has a stupid people problem, not a cart problem. There isn't really an answer to solving that problem, unfortunately.

 

 

 

[chisag]

" I think for a lot of good players walking was basically their job for years, they don't want to do it anymore."

 

... As we get older walking is one of the very best activities we can do to maintain our quality of life. Getting to play golf while doing so is just icing on the cake. And while we certainly cannot stereotype all cart riders, I rarely see anyone walking that doesn't have respect for the course and the game. And very few fat walkers. Fat slobs, drinking and trashing the courses are not alone as I see plenty of 20-30 somethings in good shape with zero regard for the golf course parking their carts 3 feet off the path next to tees and driving almost on the fringes of greens.

[mci711]

> @chisag said:

> " I think for a lot of good players walking was basically their job for years, they don't want to do it anymore."

>

> ... As we get older walking is one of the very best activities we can do to maintain our quality of life. Getting to play golf while doing so is just icing on the cake. And while we certainly cannot stereotype all cart riders, I rarely see anyone walking that doesn't have respect for the course and the game. And very few fat walkers. Fat slobs, drinking and trashing the courses are not alone as I see plenty of 20-30 somethings in good shape with zero regard for the golf course parking their carts 3 feet off the path next to tees and driving almost on the fringes of greens.

 

My point is you can be a very good/respectable golfer and still ride in a cart. It isn't playing golf the "wrong way." I get that carts invite problems. But the first quote about playing cart golf is playing the wrong way is stupid. It isn't wrong if you still play ready golf, drive where you are supposed and not act like an a**hole. If you are one you are going to be one in a cart or walking and we've already determined courses can't survive without them.

[mci711]

> @mci711 said:

> > @chisag said:

> > " I think for a lot of good players walking was basically their job for years, they don't want to do it anymore."

> >

> > ... As we get older walking is one of the very best activities we can do to maintain our quality of life. Getting to play golf while doing so is just icing on the cake. And while we certainly cannot stereotype all cart riders, I rarely see anyone walking that doesn't have respect for the course and the game. And very few fat walkers. Fat slobs, drinking and trashing the courses are not alone as I see plenty of 20-30 somethings in good shape with zero regard for the golf course parking their carts 3 feet off the path next to tees and driving almost on the fringes of greens.

>

> My point is you can be a very good/respectable golfer and still ride in a cart. It isn't playing golf the "wrong way." I get that carts invite problems. But the first quote about playing cart golf is playing the wrong way is stupid. It isn't wrong if you still play ready golf, drive where you are supposed and not act like an a**hole. If you are one you are going to be one in a cart or walking and we've already determined courses can't survive without them.

 

I think we can all agree the world would be a better place without people who treat golf courses like crap, get hammered and ruin greens/property etc. I highly doubt it is just the golf course they disrespect. The cart isn't making them that way.

[mci711]

Uh, sorry, I just replied twice instead of editing and can't delete. Darn system.

 

 

[@_the_crook]

re carts: I played with one group for a couple years up at Shepherds. one guy , a rider, was always in a rush to get through.

Caveat - he was usually looking for his drive in the fescue. he was the last to fix ball marks or divots. when anyone else needed a few minutes to look for their stray shot he rushed them and suggested they drop.

I decided to play with all walkers and the mornings became more pleasant.

 

[chisag]

> @mci711 said:

> > @chisag said:

> > " I think for a lot of good players walking was basically their job for years, they don't want to do it anymore."

> >

> > ... As we get older walking is one of the very best activities we can do to maintain our quality of life. Getting to play golf while doing so is just icing on the cake. And while we certainly cannot stereotype all cart riders, I rarely see anyone walking that doesn't have respect for the course and the game. And very few fat walkers. Fat slobs, drinking and trashing the courses are not alone as I see plenty of 20-30 somethings in good shape with zero regard for the golf course parking their carts 3 feet off the path next to tees and driving almost on the fringes of greens.

>

> My point is you can be a very good/respectable golfer and still ride in a cart. It isn't playing golf the "wrong way." I get that carts invite problems._** But the first quote about playing cart golf is playing the wrong way is stupid.**_ It isn't wrong if you still play ready golf, drive where you are supposed and not act like an a**hole. If you are one you are going to be one in a cart or walking and we've already determined courses can't survive without them.

 

 

... You are talking about personal opinions and calling those of us that think golf would be better without carts** stupid is just the opposite opinion related in a most disrespectful way. I will always remember talking to Joe Jemsek who refused to put cart paths on his 4 Cog Hill courses because as he said to me "Golf is meant to be walked. And you should be able to walk on grass, not concrete. And who can argue a golf course is much more beautiful without cart paths?"

 

... I also see the need for carts on many courses with either looooooong walks from greens to tees or elevation that makes walking all but impossible.

 

** with the exception of those that have a physical need for them

 

[mci711]

> @chisag said:

> > @mci711 said:

> > > @chisag said:

> > > " I think for a lot of good players walking was basically their job for years, they don't want to do it anymore."

> > >

> > > ... As we get older walking is one of the very best activities we can do to maintain our quality of life. Getting to play golf while doing so is just icing on the cake. And while we certainly cannot stereotype all cart riders, I rarely see anyone walking that doesn't have respect for the course and the game. And very few fat walkers. Fat slobs, drinking and trashing the courses are not alone as I see plenty of 20-30 somethings in good shape with zero regard for the golf course parking their carts 3 feet off the path next to tees and driving almost on the fringes of greens.

> >

> > My point is you can be a very good/respectable golfer and still ride in a cart. It isn't playing golf the "wrong way." I get that carts invite problems._** But the first quote about playing cart golf is playing the wrong way is stupid.**_ It isn't wrong if you still play ready golf, drive where you are supposed and not act like an a**hole. If you are one you are going to be one in a cart or walking and we've already determined courses can't survive without them.

>

>

> ... You are talking about personal opinions and calling those of us that think golf would be better without carts** stupid is just the opposite opinion related in a most disrespectful way. I will always remember talking to Joe Jemsek who refused to put cart paths on his 4 Cog Hill courses because as he said to me "Golf is meant to be walked. And you should be able to walk on grass, not concrete. And who can argue a golf course is much more beautiful without cart paths?"

>

> ... I also see the need for carts on many courses with either looooooong walks from greens to tees or elevation that makes walking all but impossible.

>

> ** with the exception of those that have a physical need for them

>

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to say you were stupid. But I do think to say that walking golf is the only correct way to play golf is stupid, I can't help that, and detrimental to the growth of the game. Many great players, people who love the game, use carts. They aren't wrong for that. I agree with you guys, for the most part, a lot of what I don't like about golf is probably related to players who take carts, I concede that. But I can't see past the absolute need for them for the game to survive in the states. I'd rather courses have handicap requirements before getting rid of carts.

 

Agree to disagree.

[MountainKing]

I use a cart, although with the weight I've gained in recent years I could use to walk a few rounds of golf. Golf was never a form of exercise for me, like others have mentioned, I spent years walking courses playing in Jr tournaments, high school tournaments ect. Golf now is something I do for fun and get that need for competition out of my system. If I want to exercise I'll go to the gym, otherwise I'm riding. Maybe once I get my fat butt back in some sort of a shape that isn't round I'll walk a bit more.

 

On the same note, if we're comparing this to the UK and pushing the walking thing, can we also push a 3 and half hour pace and a requirement to show your handicap card to play? I would gladly trade a cart for that.

[TheBear95]

> @MountainKing said:

> On the same note, if we're comparing this to the UK and pushing the walking thing, can we also push a 3 and half hour pace and a requirement to show your handicap card to play? I would gladly trade a cart for that.

 

No argument from me. But, realize, that on a busy course, carts only slow down pace of play. Walking and faster pace of play go hand-in-hand.

 

[MountainKing]

> @TheBear95 said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > On the same note, if we're comparing this to the UK and pushing the walking thing, can we also push a 3 and half hour pace and a requirement to show your handicap card to play? I would gladly trade a cart for that.

>

> No argument from me. But, realize, that on a busy course, carts only slow down pace of play. Walking and faster pace of play go hand-in-hand.

>

 

With the way most clowns use carts on a course they totally do. We drive to say my ball and I get dropped off, the driver will then go to his ball while I'm playing. Once I hit I start walking toward the green, if it makes sense the driver will come get me when he's done otherwise we just meet up by the green. If I know it's going to be B then I make sure to bring my wedge and putter with me as well. Cart doesn't mean you ride every second of your darn round. The other 3 I play with, we generally try to ride smart as well so myself and my other buddy ride together because we both play draws and generally lose our shots left and the other two are right side guys. I know that last part isn't an exact science, and a lot of higher hcp's have no clue where the ball is going, but being able to play cart golf even half the round saves time. With that said, I do agree in that the carts on most courses around here aren't saving us that much time when compared to walking.

[ldchristopher]

> @TheBear95 said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > On the same note, if we're comparing this to the UK and pushing the walking thing, can we also push a 3 and half hour pace and a requirement to show your handicap card to play? I would gladly trade a cart for that.

>

> No argument from me. But, realize, that on a busy course, carts only slow down pace of play. Walking and faster pace of play go hand-in-hand.

>

People are quick to associate carts with people who don’t abide by golf etiquette, myself included. That’s actually how I got this whole debate started. However, the biggest etiquette ignorer the cart enables is hitting extra shots, which absolutely murders pace. I don’t see breakfast ball after breakfast ball when people are walking but my God does it happen all the time when golfers are in carts. “Oh, I hit a banana slice into the other fairway? I’ll just tee up another. Hosel rocket? No big deal. Just hit another ball. In the water? Like it never happened.” I’m sure someone will say, “Well I play in a cart and I don’t do that.” Sure. Awesome. Good on you. I see it every. Single. Mother. Trucking. Round.

 

[@_the_crook]

> @TheBear95 said:

> > @MountainKing said:

> > On the same note, if we're comparing this to the UK and pushing the walking thing, can we also push a 3 and half hour pace and a requirement to show your handicap card to play? I would gladly trade a cart for that.

>

> No argument from me. But, realize, that on a busy course, carts only slow down pace of play. Walking and faster pace of play go hand-in-hand.

>

 

> @MountainKing said:

> I use a cart, although with the weight I've gained in recent years I could use to walk a few rounds of golf. Golf was never a form of exercise for me, like others have mentioned, I spent years walking courses playing in Jr tournaments, high school tournaments ect. Golf now is something I do for fun and get that need for competition out of my system. If I want to exercise I'll go to the gym, otherwise I'm riding. Maybe once I get my fat butt back in some sort of a shape that isn't round I'll walk a bit more.

>

> On the same note, if we're comparing this to the UK and pushing the walking thing, can we also push a 3 and half hour pace and a requirement to show your handicap card to play? I would gladly trade a cart for that.

 

Best thing I ever did was not get used to riding. the pal that got me started playing was a rider but I picked up a pull cart for practice and solo games and got hooked. Much more enjoyable to walk with a well-kept bag. Since I'm AARP qualified - hope my ability lasts a good long time.

[ldchristopher]

But enough about how much I loathe carts. I played Chalet Hills and GCI today. I sent my 919’s out to get re-shafted and played my Cobras instead. Alas, my ball striking with those was dynamite. Enough to make me wonder why I ever bothered changing. Enough to make me wonder what I should bring on this upcoming Wisconsin trip. Chalet was in top notch shape. The fairways were giving plenty of roll, the greens were super smooth, and the course itself has drained extremely well after all the rain. 74.

 

GCI was pretty much the same as last time. Tee to green it was stellar but the greens were a mixed bag. The cups were clearly moved a bit more than the last time I was there but they weren’t as smooth as Chalet. Then again, I wasn’t teeing off at 6:20 AM either and there were a lot of people taking advantage of the outstanding weather. I had back-to-back birdies on 15 and 16 and bogies on 3, 7, 9 and 13 for a 73.

[MountainKing]

> @"@_the_crook" said:

> > @TheBear95 said:

> > > @MountainKing said:

> > > On the same note, if we're comparing this to the UK and pushing the walking thing, can we also push a 3 and half hour pace and a requirement to show your handicap card to play? I would gladly trade a cart for that.

> >

> > No argument from me. But, realize, that on a busy course, carts only slow down pace of play. Walking and faster pace of play go hand-in-hand.

> >

>

> > @MountainKing said:

> > I use a cart, although with the weight I've gained in recent years I could use to walk a few rounds of golf. Golf was never a form of exercise for me, like others have mentioned, I spent years walking courses playing in Jr tournaments, high school tournaments ect. Golf now is something I do for fun and get that need for competition out of my system. If I want to exercise I'll go to the gym, otherwise I'm riding. Maybe once I get my fat butt back in some sort of a shape that isn't round I'll walk a bit more.

> >

> > On the same note, if we're comparing this to the UK and pushing the walking thing, can we also push a 3 and half hour pace and a requirement to show your handicap card to play? I would gladly trade a cart for that.

>

> Best thing I ever did was not get used to riding. the pal that got me started playing was a rider but I picked up a pull cart for practice and solo games and got hooked. Much more enjoyable to walk with a well-kept bag. Since I'm AARP qualified - hope my ability lasts a good long time.

 

I think the more enjoyable part isn't applicable to everybody. I started playing at 6, my Dad was a walker, all jr tournaments were walking ect and I probably walked up until my mid 20's. In high school we'd walk 36+ a day in the summers, all said and done I've probably walked well over a thousand rounds. I think my biggest thing against walking is I don't feel like dealing with my bag whether I'm carrying or it's on some form of a push/pull cart (I've always preferred the carry method if I had to). All in all, I get just as much joy out of the game regardless of the method I'm using to get around. On the same topic, if I'm playing just 9 holes I refuse to get a cart for that, that just seems lazy. Whatever makes ya happy, do it.

[propman]

Up to 2 years ago, I always walked. However, since then, the majority of my golf buddies take carts so I joined the club. It's nice having 2 or 3 adult beverages and playing in about 3 -3 and1/2 hrs. Walking usually took a little longer.

 

One of my buds ran the Chicago Marathon a few times and he refuses to walk the course.

[ssp]

the slam on carts is ridiculous.

[dhartmann34]

Finally getting some rounds in now that my back is feeling halfway decent. Stonewall tomorrow, Arcaida Bluffs on Sunday and another day next week which is to be decided. Seems the courses are drying out a bit thankfully. Rain rain stay away....

[DeeBee30]

Not Chicagoland, but headed out for the annual Michigan golf trip tomorrow. Three of us have a couple of tune up rounds at Tullymore and Bucks Run in the Mt. Pleasant area on Thursday. Then we meet up with the other 29 guys in Harbor Springs to play 4 rounds at Boyne Highlands and finish up on Bay Harbor’s Links/Quarry loop. Immediately post-trip, I have a client round at Eau Claire CC on Tuesday. That’ll make 8 rounds in 5 days...can’t wait.

[mci711]

> @dhartmann34 said:

> Finally getting some rounds in now that my back is feeling halfway decent. Stonewall tomorrow, Arcaida Bluffs on Sunday and another day next week which is to be decided. Seems the courses are drying out a bit thankfully. Rain rain stay away....

 

Have you played Arcadia before? Honestly, I think it is the most beautiful golf property I have ever been to.

[DavePelz4]

> @ssp said:

> the slam on carts is ridiculous.

 

The slam isn't on carts...it's on the guys who used them and don't keep pace. This is all about pace.