What crucial putting distances determine score

[Krt22]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > at it this way - you just don’t know what you are talking about.

> > > >

> > > > I am pretty sure that a good chunk of putts are made by most pro within 10 feet. If not then there 3 putting a lot which clearly is not happening.

> > > >

> > > > 30 putts or less a round is pretty standard for a good player. To make less then 30 you need to be making a high percentage of 3-10 feet. If not the numbers do not add up.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Here's the thing, the best players on tour are only averaging 12-13 GIR. That means if they two putt every green with 12 GIR, that's 24 putts and they get up and down on the ones they miss, that's 30 putts a round.

> > >

> >

> > If you chip within 6’ your a very good chipper. So again there making those putts within 10 feet.

> >

> > Also if you good enough you don’t need to hit the GIR every time to make par. They do this by combo good chip and putting.

> >

> > When it comes to golf a 1” putt or 5’ all count the same. To improve scores you have to reliably get the ball in the hole and not be relying on a lucky shot or putt to make birdie.

> >

> > Striking the ball good is only one component but if you can hit well but have to 2 putt everything your looking at 36 putts and your not going to have a very good score.

> >

> > There is a combination of skills. But a crucial skill for sure is the ability to putt.

>

> Unless you're on tour if I give you 18 GIRs and you shot even par, I'd think you'd be happy with that score. You'll come down with shouldofbeenbetter flu.

 

Exactly. The putting skill is where you see the least difference between Pros, elite ams, and mid caps. GIRs (and ball striking in general) is where you see the how/why scores differ so much. Since the SG method is a bit much for some to digest without reading the book, this is a very nice graphic/set of data.

 

Google 2016-report-overall-golfer-performance-by-handicap (MGS Article)

 

Putting is important, but I think some people are easily misguided in terms of how much time it really takes to be a decent putter and that putting is the one area where you can easily start seeing diminishing returns in terms of time invested vs score improvement, but of which is caused by these misleading stats that don't factor in actual putt length

[SNIPERBBB]

I think the reason why putting practice is preached so much is that it costs nothing to practice as you can show up to any course's practice green, but except exclusive member only courses and can practice for hours.

[ThinkingPlus]

Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

[tiger1873]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> I think the reason why putting practice is preached so much is that it costs nothing to practice as you can show up to any course's practice green, but except exclusive member only courses and can practice for hours.

 

Putting can easily be half your score if not more so it very important. I asked this question because my 12 year old daughter is a pretty good player by all accounts and she practices a lot. We have not seen a drop in scores until this past week when been focusing on putting from 6-15 feet. Just a small percentage of those putts have meant 2 or 3 birdies a round vs 0 and even more important an elimination of the 3 putt she might have with a round.

 

The result is 7-10 shots less a round. A big difference in scores and if it holds up in tournament play will mean a win more often than a mediocre finish.

 

She practices everything which is important but at some point putting comes into play.

[SNIPERBBB]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

 

Yep and I'm convinced there's some putts you just can't read. See it in scrambles all the time where you can just can't make a putt no matter how many Mulligan's you throw at it

[SNIPERBBB]

Putting can't be half your score unless you do the proverbial 18GIRs and shoot even par on a par 72 course, or your play a par 3 course.

[Krt22]

Going to bow out of this thread, it's become clear the OP wasn't interested in an actual discussion, but instead just wanted to assert his own thoughts/opinions. I'm a data driven person, so I will follow the statistics.

 

 

[airjammer]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

 

Maybe Monte, Dan, or Hunt have asked or seen data about how often very high level golfers hit their intended line...like perfect or fractional off perfect start line?

 

For me, all I care about putting wise is if I hit my start line. My speed and reads are generally ok. So to me if you cannot hit your start line you can’t practice your green reading or speed on shortish breaking putts since they are all dependent on you hitting a certain line.

 

So I don’t practice putting at all if I’m hitting my start lines. I don’t keep stats but over 20 years playing I’ve been down right dreadful to “man this guy never misses” to current average for my handicap.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @airjammer said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

>

> Maybe Monte, Dan, or Hunt have asked or seen data about how often very high level golfers hit their intended line...like perfect or fractional off perfect start line?

>

> For me, all I care about putting wise is if I hit my start line. My speed and reads are generally ok. So to me if you cannot hit your start line you can’t practice your green reading or speed on shortish breaking putts since they are all dependent on you hitting a certain line.

>

> So I don’t practice putting at all if I’m hitting my start lines. I don’t keep stats but over 20 years playing I’ve been down right dreadful to “man this guy never misses” to current average for my handicap.

 

What you are illustrating here is why I use a line on my ball. It gives me feedback on strike and read. You can even get insight into how smooth the greens are.

[tiger1873]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

>

> Yep and I'm convinced there's some putts you just can't read. See it in scrambles all the time where you can just can't make a putt no matter how many Mulligan's you throw at it

 

Green reading is everything especially with long putts. What makes green reading so tough is you need the correct speed as well. Most people are not consistent with speed when they hit the putts so green reading is impossible for them.

[SNIPERBBB]

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

> >

> > Yep and I'm convinced there's some putts you just can't read. See it in scrambles all the time where you can just can't make a putt no matter how many Mulligan's you throw at it

>

> Green reading is everything especially with long putts. What makes green reading so tough is you need the correct speed as well. Most people are not consistent with speed when they hit the putts so green reading is impossible for them.

 

My experience is the opposite. Only raw beginners are inconsistent with speed.,or those with the yips.

[tiger1873]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

> > >

> > > Yep and I'm convinced there's some putts you just can't read. See it in scrambles all the time where you can just can't make a putt no matter how many Mulligan's you throw at it

> >

> > Green reading is everything especially with long putts. What makes green reading so tough is you need the correct speed as well. Most people are not consistent with speed when they hit the putts so green reading is impossible for them.

>

> My experience is the opposite. Only raw beginners are inconsistent with speed.,or those with the yips.

 

Are you sure?? For a given read the speed needs to be correct or the ball will or not break correctly. You know it's speed if you miss a putt adjust aim and still miss. Reading a putt is really easy after you see a ball break and you know where it was aimed.

[SNIPERBBB]

Some putts are hairline putts, tricky greens where say you have what you think is a right edge putt and it snaps it's neck at the hole. Play it out a cupp with the same speed and it stays straight.

[b.mattay]

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > I think the reason why putting practice is preached so much is that it costs nothing to practice as you can show up to any course's practice green, but except exclusive member only courses and can practice for hours.

>

> Putting can easily be half your score if not more so it very important. I asked this question because my 12 year old daughter is a pretty good player by all accounts and she practices a lot. We have not seen a drop in scores until this past week when been focusing on putting from 6-15 feet. Just a small percentage of those putts have meant 2 or 3 birdies a round vs 0 and even more important an elimination of the 3 putt she might have with a round.

>

> The result is 7-10 shots less a round. A big difference in scores and if it holds up in tournament play will mean a win more often than a mediocre finish.

>

> She practices everything which is important but at some point putting comes into play.

 

You cant gain 7-10 shots putting per round unless you had the yips to begin with...

[Juan73]

> @airjammer said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

>

> Maybe Monte, Dan, or Hunt have asked or seen data about how often very high level golfers hit their intended line...like perfect or fractional off perfect start line?

>

> For me, all I care about putting wise is if I hit my start line. My speed and reads are generally ok. So to me if you cannot hit your start line you can’t practice your green reading or speed on shortish breaking putts since they are all dependent on you hitting a certain line.

>

> So I don’t practice putting at all if I’m hitting my start lines. I don’t keep stats but over 20 years playing I’ve been down right dreadful to “man this guy never misses” to current average for my handicap.

 

While not any of the guys you referenced...... I was listening to Phil Kenyon talk about hitting your start line. He was specifically focusing on the extent to which the putter was square to the line at impact. He said Pros average about .5 degrees or less... either open or closed. And when they reach this level it is good enough.

 

If you use Blast Motion, you can get the data for yourself. I have been working on square impact for a lot of years, and on the last 1300 putts plus, I recorded on Blast Motion, I am averaging .2 degrees closed at impact. So I am very comfortable I will be starting my ball on line. Now if you are 1 degree open or closed at impact you will miss a 10 foot putt, even if it is a perfectly straight putt, and you aimed at the center of the hole. (basic math)

[baudi]

Be aware of the delusion of stats which could lead astray: The idea that any shot outside 8-10 feet will have less than 50% chance to drop may be noteworthy for the books but it may very well undermine the mental attitude of finding and seeing the opportunity to make the putt. It is where the greats (or avid players) will set themselves free.

The ability to score from longer distances (or more difficult positions) is much more important than the data driven knowledge behind it which is nothing more but a consequence.

 

Somewhere along I read pro's are slightly better than ama's on the green. Probably a conclusion derived from statistics. If so, the pro's suck which is not true of course.

In a direct battle any pro would wax the ama because they understand much better than anyone else how to come up with the presence of mind.

Think of a match where a pro (eg Mr Nicklaus in his prime) must putt from a doubled distance against a young aspiring ama. My money would be on Jack Nicklaus.

 

BTW I love Broadie's work and what he achieved for golf is absolutely fantastic.

[airjammer]

> @Juan73 said:

> > @airjammer said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

> >

> > Maybe Monte, Dan, or Hunt have asked or seen data about how often very high level golfers hit their intended line...like perfect or fractional off perfect start line?

> >

> > For me, all I care about putting wise is if I hit my start line. My speed and reads are generally ok. So to me if you cannot hit your start line you can’t practice your green reading or speed on shortish breaking putts since they are all dependent on you hitting a certain line.

> >

> > So I don’t practice putting at all if I’m hitting my start lines. I don’t keep stats but over 20 years playing I’ve been down right dreadful to “man this guy never misses” to current average for my handicap.

>

> While not any of the guys you referenced...... I was listening to Phil Kenyon talk about hitting your start line. He was specifically focusing on the extent to which the putter was square to the line at impact. He said Pros average about .5 degrees or less... either open or closed. And when they reach this level it is good enough.

>

> If you use Blast Motion, you can get the data for yourself. I have been working on square impact for a lot of years, and on the last 1300 putts plus, I recorded on Blast Motion, I am averaging .2 degrees closed at impact. So I am very comfortable I will be starting my ball on line. Now if you are 1 degree open or closed at impact you will miss a 10 foot putt, even if it is a perfectly straight putt, and you aimed at the center of the hole. (basic math)

 

Thanks so much..that was the stat I was looking for. Basically reinforces how I view putting. If you cannot trust that your are going to hit your line..especially on short putts..line and speed are secondary. Anyone know of a chart that shows what distance and slope that if you hit a dead center putt that it would miss the hole?

[ThinkingPlus]

> @airjammer said:

> > @Juan73 said:

> > > @airjammer said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

> > >

> > > Maybe Monte, Dan, or Hunt have asked or seen data about how often very high level golfers hit their intended line...like perfect or fractional off perfect start line?

> > >

> > > For me, all I care about putting wise is if I hit my start line. My speed and reads are generally ok. So to me if you cannot hit your start line you can’t practice your green reading or speed on shortish breaking putts since they are all dependent on you hitting a certain line.

> > >

> > > So I don’t practice putting at all if I’m hitting my start lines. I don’t keep stats but over 20 years playing I’ve been down right dreadful to “man this guy never misses” to current average for my handicap.

> >

> > While not any of the guys you referenced...... I was listening to Phil Kenyon talk about hitting your start line. He was specifically focusing on the extent to which the putter was square to the line at impact. He said Pros average about .5 degrees or less... either open or closed. And when they reach this level it is good enough.

> >

> > If you use Blast Motion, you can get the data for yourself. I have been working on square impact for a lot of years, and on the last 1300 putts plus, I recorded on Blast Motion, I am averaging .2 degrees closed at impact. So I am very comfortable I will be starting my ball on line. Now if you are 1 degree open or closed at impact you will miss a 10 foot putt, even if it is a perfectly straight putt, and you aimed at the center of the hole. (basic math)

>

> Thanks so much..that was the stat I was looking for. Basically reinforces how I view putting. If you cannot trust that your are going to hit your line..especially on short putts..line and speed are secondary. Anyone know of a chart that shows what distance and slope that if you hit a dead center putt that it would miss the hole?

 

If

0.0175 x (degrees putter misaligned) x (putt length in feet) x 12 > 2.125

you miss...

 

This works for small angles of miss (less than 5° or maybe a bit more - otherwise you need to start doing the trig).

[airjammer]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @airjammer said:

> > > @Juan73 said:

> > > > @airjammer said:

> > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe Monte, Dan, or Hunt have asked or seen data about how often very high level golfers hit their intended line...like perfect or fractional off perfect start line?

> > > >

> > > > For me, all I care about putting wise is if I hit my start line. My speed and reads are generally ok. So to me if you cannot hit your start line you can’t practice your green reading or speed on shortish breaking putts since they are all dependent on you hitting a certain line.

> > > >

> > > > So I don’t practice putting at all if I’m hitting my start lines. I don’t keep stats but over 20 years playing I’ve been down right dreadful to “man this guy never misses” to current average for my handicap.

> > >

> > > While not any of the guys you referenced...... I was listening to Phil Kenyon talk about hitting your start line. He was specifically focusing on the extent to which the putter was square to the line at impact. He said Pros average about .5 degrees or less... either open or closed. And when they reach this level it is good enough.

> > >

> > > If you use Blast Motion, you can get the data for yourself. I have been working on square impact for a lot of years, and on the last 1300 putts plus, I recorded on Blast Motion, I am averaging .2 degrees closed at impact. So I am very comfortable I will be starting my ball on line. Now if you are 1 degree open or closed at impact you will miss a 10 foot putt, even if it is a perfectly straight putt, and you aimed at the center of the hole. (basic math)

> >

> > Thanks so much..that was the stat I was looking for. Basically reinforces how I view putting. If you cannot trust that your are going to hit your line..especially on short putts..line and speed are secondary. Anyone know of a chart that shows what distance and slope that if you hit a dead center putt that it would miss the hole?

>

> If

> 0.0175*(degrees putter misaligned)*(putt length in feet)*12 > 2.125

> you miss...

>

> This works for small angles of miss (less than 5° or maybe a bit more - otherwise you need to start doing the trig).

 

You lost me at “If” ? Seriously thou thanks

[mikpga]

I always like to communicate the following...

 

Tour players rarely/never miss from 3' and in, and they rarely three putt...

 

Figure it out from there...

[ThinkingPlus]

> @airjammer said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @airjammer said:

> > > > @Juan73 said:

> > > > > @airjammer said:

> > > > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > > Actually I think at some point once someone has a decent putting stroke, improving putting comes down to improving green reading. I would venture a guess that most putts missed by the pros and good putting ams from inside of 15' are due to misreads. So maybe instead of practicing putting one needs to practice reading putts inside of 15'.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe Monte, Dan, or Hunt have asked or seen data about how often very high level golfers hit their intended line...like perfect or fractional off perfect start line?

> > > > >

> > > > > For me, all I care about putting wise is if I hit my start line. My speed and reads are generally ok. So to me if you cannot hit your start line you can’t practice your green reading or speed on shortish breaking putts since they are all dependent on you hitting a certain line.

> > > > >

> > > > > So I don’t practice putting at all if I’m hitting my start lines. I don’t keep stats but over 20 years playing I’ve been down right dreadful to “man this guy never misses” to current average for my handicap.

> > > >

> > > > While not any of the guys you referenced...... I was listening to Phil Kenyon talk about hitting your start line. He was specifically focusing on the extent to which the putter was square to the line at impact. He said Pros average about .5 degrees or less... either open or closed. And when they reach this level it is good enough.

> > > >

> > > > If you use Blast Motion, you can get the data for yourself. I have been working on square impact for a lot of years, and on the last 1300 putts plus, I recorded on Blast Motion, I am averaging .2 degrees closed at impact. So I am very comfortable I will be starting my ball on line. Now if you are 1 degree open or closed at impact you will miss a 10 foot putt, even if it is a perfectly straight putt, and you aimed at the center of the hole. (basic math)

> > >

> > > Thanks so much..that was the stat I was looking for. Basically reinforces how I view putting. If you cannot trust that your are going to hit your line..especially on short putts..line and speed are secondary. Anyone know of a chart that shows what distance and slope that if you hit a dead center putt that it would miss the hole?

> >

> > If

> > 0.0175*(degrees putter misaligned)*(putt length in feet)*12 > 2.125

> > you miss...

> >

> > This works for small angles of miss (less than 5° or maybe a bit more - otherwise you need to start doing the trig).

>

> You lost me at “If” ? Seriously thou thanks

 

I edited my original post above. Makes more sense now. Stupid editor interprets "asterisk" as a meta character.

[RichieHunt]

You do have some leeway with your line on a putt. The objective of putting is fairly simple...you're trying to match up the speed and the line. IIRC, the optimal speed is roughly 2-3 revolutions/second. That will expand the capture width of the hole the most. A putt with optimal speed should hit the back plastic of the cup. If it hits the back dirt, it can still go in, but that is faster than the optimal speed. And vice versa if it lands in the middle of the cup. As far as optimal length past the hole...it varies too much to really come up with a good distance. From what I've read on an relatively flat putt with a 10 stimp, it's about 12 inches past the cup. The faster the putt (either via slope and/or stimp) that optimal distance past the cup increase and vice versa for slower putts.

 

As far as deviation, speed varies more for golfers than line. There's a good video from Be Better Golf that shows this.

 

And if you want to be a great putter, practice sidehill putts and determine what type of breaking putt (right to left or left to right) gives you the most trouble (usually it will be the one you're most likely to miss on the low side) and work to figure out how to improve on those putts. The very best putters on Tour don't have a bias on types of breaking putts. The rest of the golfers on Tour do have some bias. But, when those players putt their best...their bias disappears.

 

That's why I think Faxon became such a great putter. He grew up on a course with very undulated greens and would practice making breaking putts at 3 different speeds with 3 different lines.

 

I will say that I don't think trying to reach that optimal speed is for everybody, but probably is for most people. The best putter I had ever been around hit everything very firm, but he was so consistent with that speed. I think he probably was so consistent with that speed for so long that he could get a great feel for how the ball would roll and break and it probably made his reads easier. Finally, I will say that golfers...on any level...that struggle from inside 5-feet usually are hitting those putts way too hard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

[baudi]

Richie mentions bias. For the last 3 months I work with HMP. What I am looking for is a bias with face angle at impact, strike point and path.

Honestly, I have see none yet. No bias means no pattern imo. Tested on many players. The critical distance for HMP is 10 feet btw. The question is how to deal with this?

(In remembrance there is Rory Mc testing 17 putters in 3 months last year and wonder if the outcome per club would differ) To me Rory, is an interesting case because of his struggles with putting and his attitude to deal with it.

 

A common phenom is the crucial moment of losing with putting vs winning with putting. Nearly athe same time. A situation like DJ faced at the US Open 2015 comes to mind. Birdie for win turns into bogey for missing play off. How to deal with these issues at hand. Can a player really improve by adopting a technique or strategy?

 

[MountainGoat]

> @baudi said:

> Richie mentions bias. For the last 3 months I work with HMP. What I am looking for is a bias with face angle at impact, strike point and path.

> Honestly, I have see none yet.

I have exactly the opposite experience. I started working with a putting mirror that allows you to set up a tight gate thru which the putter has to travel just before impact. What I discovered to my horror is that I'm almost dead perfect going thru the gate on right-to-left putts, but I hit the gate a high percentage of the time with left-to-right putts. Carefully orienting the line on the ball was helpful but not curative. What I discovered is that when I bend over the putt, my head tilts slightly to the right. The result is that while my eyes are on the target line, my eye line points to the right of the target. This is the reason why I frequently feel like the target is behind me, and why I subconsciously adjust by striking the ball from outside in.

 

What has brought me some success is to change my setup such that my eye line matches the target line. My total stance is a little open, but I tend to start the ball more on line when I do that. This change violates the common instructional guidance that the golfer ought to have all of his "flow lines" parallel to the target line. In my case, the only "flow line" that mattered was my eye line. This change resulted not only in a better sense of line, but a better sense of speed, as well, because now the target is where I expect it to be.

 

With respect to the original question of which distances are most important, I've been working a lot lately with the Golfmetrics app. With that app, you'd better make just about everything inside 6 feet or your "shots gained" will get crushed. You'd also better make at least one putt a side between 6 and 20 feet. You can't just get close hoping to avoid 3-putts. Frankly, the putting norms for that app seem a little unrealistic.

 

 

 

 

[airjammer]

> @RichieHunt said:

>

>

> I will say that I don't think trying to reach that optimal speed is for everybody, but probably is for most people. The best putter I had ever been around hit everything very firm, but he was so consistent with that speed. I think he probably was so consistent with that speed for so long that he could get a great feel for how the ball would roll and break and it probably made his reads easier. Finally, I will say that golfers...on any level...that struggle from inside 5-feet usually are hitting those putts way too hard.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> RH

>

 

We play with very different people when it comes to one who miss shortish putts. Most guys I play with don’t hit the hole from 5 feet on a straight putt when they miss. That goes for me as well. If I miss a shortish putt..it’s because my face was way open or closed.

 

Firm putters can only get away with hitting it firm because they are spot on with their impact. I consider Fowler a model for being a firm short putter.

 

[Red4282]

> @RichieHunt said:

> For amateurs, it's putting from 3-15 feet.

>

> For pros (or wannabe pros) it's putting from 5-15 feet because most pros have a smaller deviation in performance from 3-5 feet.

>

> If you look at pros from a specific distance, it's about 4-feet in terms of correlation to Strokes Gained - Putting.

>

> The other big part is reduce the deviation on left-to-right vs. right-to-left putts. The best putters have almost no bias between right-to-left or left-to-right putts.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> RH

 

This^ 100%

 

Im a wanna be pro ? and this is how i judge my putting rounds. How did i fare 5-15ft. I have a high sink rate inside 5... unless im just in a total funk which rarely happens lately. And 3 putting from 15+ Isnt an issue either. From 5-15 i aim for 50% sink rate. If i acheive that or higher i am happy with thr performance, below that and there is an issue there i want to correct.

 

I will say for the majority of golfers, inside 5 is way more crucial. Or you can just give yourself gimmies...

[Red4282]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > I was thinking more along the lines of inside 100 yards. On tour you have to be 174th to average 20 feet or worse.

>

> Yep. Ginormous difference between inside 100 and 125. A lob wedge just isn’t going to stray that far offline. It’s all about distance control from 95 down. Not side to side at all.

 

Disagree, the 100-125 yards is about distance control as well, at least for pros or high level amateurs.

[bladehunter]

> @Red4282 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > I was thinking more along the lines of inside 100 yards. On tour you have to be 174th to average 20 feet or worse.

> >

> > Yep. Ginormous difference between inside 100 and 125. A lob wedge just isn’t going to stray that far offline. It’s all about distance control from 95 down. Not side to side at all.

>

> Disagree, the 100-125 yards is about distance control as well, at least for pros or high level amateurs.

 

I think that’s a captain obvious statement.

 

Distance control is very important from 170-200 as well. In fact maybe more important.

 

I didn’t say that it wasnt important ..... it’s all relative.

 

What I said and what I meant was that proximity is going to be different for any good player from inside 100 vs 100-125. You’re looking to drop mail down the chimney with a lob wedge from 90 yards. A little less so with a gap wedge from 125.

[Red4282]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Red4282 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > I was thinking more along the lines of inside 100 yards. On tour you have to be 174th to average 20 feet or worse.

> > >

> > > Yep. Ginormous difference between inside 100 and 125. A lob wedge just isn’t going to stray that far offline. It’s all about distance control from 95 down. Not side to side at all.

> >

> > Disagree, the 100-125 yards is about distance control as well, at least for pros or high level amateurs.

>

> I think that’s a captain obvious statement.

>

> Distance control is very important from 170-200 as well. In fact maybe more important.

>

> I didn’t say that it wasnt important ..... it’s all relative.

>

> What I said and what I meant was that proximity is going to be different for any good player from inside 100 vs 100-125. You’re looking to drop mail down the chimney with a lob wedge from 90 yards. A little less so with a gap wedge from 125.

 

You said ginormous difference proceeded by distance control vs side to side argument..

 

Either way from 80-125 its all about distance control period. If a full lob goes 90 and a full sw goes 110, and u have a 100 yard shot, thats 10 yards or 30 feet off a full shot. You arent missing a 100 yard shot left or right by 10 yards, at least not the pros. To get it as close as possible its about having the right distance control. Somewhere about 180+ is when side to side disperson takes over as being more important. Usually 12 yard gaps with those clubs, so an in between shot is 6 yards off full. Very easy to hit 6 iron 6 yards offline, even for the best

[bladehunter]

> @Red4282 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Red4282 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > > I was thinking more along the lines of inside 100 yards. On tour you have to be 174th to average 20 feet or worse.

> > > >

> > > > Yep. Ginormous difference between inside 100 and 125. A lob wedge just isn’t going to stray that far offline. It’s all about distance control from 95 down. Not side to side at all.

> > >

> > > Disagree, the 100-125 yards is about distance control as well, at least for pros or high level amateurs.

> >

> > I think that’s a captain obvious statement.

> >

> > Distance control is very important from 170-200 as well. In fact maybe more important.

> >

> > I didn’t say that it wasnt important ..... it’s all relative.

> >

> > What I said and what I meant was that proximity is going to be different for any good player from inside 100 vs 100-125. You’re looking to drop mail down the chimney with a lob wedge from 90 yards. A little less so with a gap wedge from 125.

>

> You said ginormous difference proceeded by distance control vs side to side argument..

>

> Either way from 80-125 its all about distance control period. If a full lob goes 90 and a full sw goes 110, and u have a 100 yard shot, thats 10 yards or 30 feet off a full shot. You arent missing a 100 yard shot left or right by 10 yards, at least not the pros. To get it as close as possible its about having the right distance control. Somewhere about 180+ is when side to side disperson takes over as being more important. Usually 12 yard gaps with those clubs, so an in between shot is 6 yards off full. Very easy to hit 6 iron 6 yards offline, even for the best

 

10 yards side to side ? Lol. Good lord man. In what world is that what I said ?

 

 

I’m talking about trying to hole lob wedges and you’re talking about missing greens from 120 with a gap wedge. There’s a lot of middle ground in between those two.