New FlightScope Mevo+ (MERGED)

[EricWGolf]

Usually, 150 rpm or less. I noticed a 300 rpm variance on one shot today. That is for wedges, irons and hybrids. I didn’t make notes on spin for driver.

[Tony B]

Even though you didn’t keep note of driver spin, anything jump out at you with driver spin differences? Seem pretty close as well?

[Woosie91]

I think we should be worried. I struggle to see how any microwave-based launch monitor is going to discern the golf ball signal from a signal many thousands of times larger reflected from a large sheet of metal. Personally, this is massively disappointing, since I've been waiting for a reasonably-priced competitor to Skytrak which (IMO) is a dead-end product.

My reply from Flightscope on the subject simply confirmed that the door would reflect the signal (thanks, I know basic science), but that I could take advantage of their 14 day return policy.

I'm looking into ways to absorb the microwaves which don't cost thousands of pounds. Water and cardboard are reasonable absorbers. (Unfortunately, I am not yet allowed to post links to the site comparing microwave penetration depths, but you can find it via Google.)

[EricWGolf]

I don’t recall anything jumping out at me, but I will try to do another quick comparison over the next few days.

[Celeras]

GungHoGolf did his initial indoor comparison. And surprising absolutely nobody, Mevo+ can't read spin indoors and was absolutely horrific with the driver: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bQAHr0m6SMzDFhE-KjHHgWIf1tqNEa8R78JgR8FuD2Y/edit?usp=sharing

Full discussion at the simulator forums. There's also a putting video from the same guy that did the chipping one matt posted. Watch through it and see how ridiculously offline the misread is on the second to last attempt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewxeQsfFX_EThis is what happens when you use radar indoors, folks.

[FlashinLeather]

I'm not saying you are wrong about spin and radar use indoors but that second to last putt looks like garbage to me. I thought the reading by the Mevo+ was right on. As far as spin goes, do we know if the Mevo+ sticker was used and if it was in the indoor or short indoor setting.

[Tony B]

All the details on setup are in the spreadsheet linked on google docs.

[games]

Got notified my MEVO+ is shipping today!

[Tony B]

No way! Really? Did you pre-order through flightscppe?

[Krt22]

DId you actually read all of the data? Yes driver spin is suspect, the PW spin didnt use a sticker, the rest is relatively similar. ST is useless with driver as well if you are a higher speed player. (or low spin in this case since it cant measure anything lower than 2024) I'm not big on hitting driver indoors anyway so I'd say the Mevo+ is the clear winner given you can use it outdoors as well . I guess if you are a serious sim player this might be an issue, if you are using it for practice/improvement it appears perfectly fine.

[Shades234]

They fail to mention the restocking fee which is why I am waiting for reviews. Maybe they will waive it, but their policy is:6. Return Policy.FlightScope hardware may be returned for refund within 14 days of the date of receipt, less shipping and any applicable restocking fees. Product(s) must be returned to FlightScope in the same condition as it was received and with all of its original packaging (Including boxes, bags, accessories, etc.). Customer assumes risk of loss, and is responsible for shipping and handling fees for returning/exchanging a product. Unless the product is defective or the return is a direct result of a FlightScope error, FlightScope will charge a restocking fee of 10% of the purchase price paid for FlightScope product(s) and 15% for the FlightScope Mevo, plus any applicable sales tax; Unless otherwise prohibited by law.

[Rory4Pres]

I believe this was mentioned earlier in this thread.

That being said, yes, that's a crappy return policy for a brand new product just hitting the market. could get the same amount selling it.

[Shades234]

I'm just responding directly @Woosie91 's comment highlighting his conversation with FlightScope. If they're promoting "use our 14 day return policy" but not telling people that they will be charged $200-$300 for the convenience, then it should be highlighted.
Apologies if I missed prior discussion on the matter.

[Celeras]

Uhh, did you? The spin axis is the opposite direction on 14 out of 34 shots and across every single club. Not slightly off, not exaggerated or under-read.. the OPPOSITE DIRECTION. Sometimes egregiously so, turning a moderate draw into a 39degree slice. Good luck using that for "practice/improvement".

Surely you can't be serious being such an apologist for these numbers.

[Krt22]

lol

 

I am not remotely an apologist. I already said the driver numbers are suspect and openly admitted I would not use indoor radar data to gauge driver performance. At the same time, the author of this data also says all of the ST spin axis data is suspect (which it is). Not sure why he did not put all of the ST spin axis data with the driver as suspect as well, when he openly admits the unit cant even measure the spin at all If it cant accurately measure the spin how can it measure spin axis? Guess what, it can't. This is a $2000 device, not a $15000 Quad. Indoors it can still be useful and the fact that it can easily be transported and used outdoors makes it far more powerful/useful than the skytrak IMO.

[ScottBGKY]

How do you know the Mevo+ was the one off? I’ve had 100% sweeping toe hooks register as banana slices on my Skytrak. I get that camera based systems are historically better for sim than radar based but I think everyone gives the SkyTrak units a little too much credit. I have one and it works okay but it misses by a mile occasionally itself.

[Woosie91]

Fortunately I'm in the UK, and I don't think restocking fees are legal here. But I'm still going to wait for some other brave soul to buy and test hitting towards their garage door ?

[games]

I did! Going to arrive Tuesday according to my UPS e-mail notification.

[Tony B]

Good news! I ordered on Monday.. hoping that means they got stock in early, and shipments are going out earlier than the 3 week lead time listed on the order site!

 

[Celeras]

Geez. Ignorance truly is bliss. First of all, the limitation with SkyTrak is only present on total spin under 2024. Do you know how to calculate total spin? It's the square root of backspin^2 + sidespin^2. Side spin is the spin axis. When the backspin is under the minimum threshold set by Rapsodo, the total spin is set to 2024 and the backspin is calculated using the MEASURED side spin figure. Spin axis is ALWAYS measured. So your "Guess what, it can't" statement shows a gross misunderstanding of the subject matter.

Second of all, are you even aware of Flightscope's business model? They lock their data points behind a paywall. The Xi, Xi+, and Xi Tour are all capable of showing the exact same club data, you just need to pay Flightscope to unlock the additional readings via software. The Mevo+ is not a "lesser" radar unit. It's a LOCKED radar unit that is entirely capable of doing everything that the more expensive units do. It is intentionally neutered so it does not step on the toes of club fitters, and it is replacing the Xi model. So to say that the inaccuracies are due to the pricepoint is blatantly false. The inaccuracies are due to it being RADAR INDOORS. Like every. single. other. radar. unit. on. the. market.

SkyTrak has been through the ringer already, much like the Mevo+ will be in the coming weeks. We know exactly what it can do, what it can't, and where it struggles. If you're skeptical, feel free to wait for someone with a quad to do the same test. But the Mevo+ exhibiting the same problem that all radar units do is not a surprise, it's confirmation of what we already know about the technology. Just like you wouldn't be surprised if you went outside with a SkyTrak and had 5 no-reads in a row (it cant do direct sunlight very well).

[ScottBGKY]

But I’ve had numerous missed spin axis readings with Skytrak as well. Numerous. I’ve had single digit handicap guys in my garage hitting obvious shots that spin the wrong way. It’s not perfect either despite what folks seem to think.

[Celeras]

You're obviously not doing any real comparisons if your basis is the "feeling" of what your friends "think" happened in your garage. But your extremely anecdotal evidence aside, misreads happen and nothing is perfect. However 14/34 is not a misread, it's a deficiency... and a known one at that.

I don't know why people would think I would be picking on radar unnecessarily, but if it makes you feel better there was a camera unit at the PGA show called the Uneekor Eye XO. During one of the videos posted online they chose to analyze a 7-iron shot with 1.66 smash factor and a negative 35.5 AoA. Big yikes.

[TM_HOYER]

Mine will be delivered tomorrow. One of the benefits of living 50 miles away from Flightscope. Signature is required but I work from home, so no big deal.

[ScottBGKY]

You’re missing my point. I know there are shortcomings to radar based units. My point is, it’s presumptuous to say all 14/38 readings that were different were off because the Mevo+ was off. It’s entirely possible and probable, especially on the ones that were off by very minor amounts, that the Skytrak could have been wrong, or that neither were correct. They were different. That’s the point.

[Krt22]

There is no such thing as side spin, the ball spins around a single axis, period. The whole side spin/back spin is just what foresight uses to break up those vectors. If you cannot measure total spin, how can know what the two the components of the vectors are? You can't, it's an insolvable equation since spin axis is 100% dependent total spin. Beyond that issue, if it cannot measure total spin under 2024, how can it measure just a fraction of it accurately?

 

I am also fully aware of Flightscopes business model, your issue with them has nothing to do with what is being discussed. Your statement that the mevo+ is a neutered Xi unit is also 100% false. The Xi and the Mevo series operate on two different frequencies, one is powerful enough to measure the entire ball flight, the other is not. Ignorance is bliss.

 

 

[Celeras]

No I get it, that's why I mentioned the quad comparison... though I'm sure the same things will be said when that comes out as well. I look forward to the SkyTrak, Mevo+, QED (ceiling mount, behind ball), GCHawk (ceiling mount, in front of ball) battle royale test.

[Celeras]

"There is no such thing as side spin"

Side spin is a numerical conversion of the spin axis for ease of interpretation. As indicated, total spin is the square root of backspin^2 + sidespin^2. That is a simple formula. Would you like to know the required calculation if you were to use the spin axis in degrees? Because it is way more complicated, and you seem to be struggling already.

"If you cannot measure total spin, how can know what the two the components of the vectors are? You can't"

As I indicated, when the total spin is MEASURED to be under 2024, it is set to that number and the formula is broken up while preserving the measured spin axis. I am not sure how you interpret this to mean "it cannot be measured", when the measurement itself is the catalyst for the adjustment.

"Your statement that the mevo+ is a neutered Xi unit is also 100% false."

I said it was replacing the Xi unit, not that it is a neutered Xi unit. This was a statement issued by Flightscope on social media.

"The Xi and the Mevo series operate on two different frequencies, one is powerful enough to measure the entire ball flight, the other is not. Ignorance is bliss."

Bliss indeed. Because wave length does not affect radar's ability to detect the ball. I don't really care to explain that to you any further given your other posts, but feel free to Google.

[Krt22]

You said the same thing without actually addressing any of my points. From the spreadsheet you linked "Skytrak has a hardware limitation of not reading less than 2024rpm, which is why you see that number repeated" . If it cannot accurately measure total spin (ie it just defaults to 2024), then there is no way for it to accurately measure spin axis, since spin axis is dependent on total spin. And if it cannot measure total spin under 2024, how can it measure some vector of that, that makes zero sense. Basically anything under 2024 is an estimate and not measured.

 

And your exact words. "The Mevo+ is not a "lesser" radar unit. It's a LOCKED radar unit that is entirely capable of doing everything that the more expensive units do". That is false.

 

And yes frequency matters. If you write that off completely you are truly showing your ignorance (again) on the matter. But keep on back pedaling

[Celeras]

I've already addressed everything in the first part, and won't again since you're grasping at straws. Regarding the second part, expect to be tagged when the next Flightscope product is released and there is a software update to unlock the additional capabilities on the Mevo+.

[jwolfe910]

I just Pre-Ordered it...Hope it's as good as people claim!