USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[milesgiles]

Where does it say he was using a low tee?

my solutions doesn’t roll back the ball or stop the pro’s swinging flat out if they feel its worth the risk. I think fans want to see obstacles shaped around and something other than a wedge being used on approach.

[oikos1]

The bigger question, which you still haven't answered, is where is your evidence for 1/2 inch tees? Furthermore, it doesn't account for the fact that if it's declared as the de facto tee height, that pros and manufacturers won't figure it out. I think you discount how accurate pros are when making impact. It would be a complete mess for amateurs.

[oikos1]

And one last time "roll it backers", the masses don't want to watch the pros bunt the ball around a golf course!

[tannyhoban]

They were out there back then. The kid from PA was a very stout 6'2" or so.

He teed it very low, like right at the flat of circumference. His driver was pretty low loft too. Very classic swing and incredible swing /ball speed. And pretty damn accurate too. He was a good player all around. IIIRC he had finished 3rd in a National LD.

The other fellow was pretty good sized as well, teed it maybe a smidge higher with past parallel at the top, not as accurate but still mighty long.

It was not typical. What it was was mighty impressive.

DJ would've had his hands full hitting persimmon against those two.

Last person I played with that has that kind of power was a kid named Chase Johnson from Kent State. He had just graduated high school. Recently finished second on the Korn Ferrry tour. Edit: he's averaging 321 dd this year, ha!

Speed is speed.You know real deal when you see it on course.I

 

 

[freowho]

"one last time" noted.

[milesgiles]

100 plus pages and a new thread on the subject at least once a week suggests at least some of us would like a change

[milesgiles]

Half inch is an arbitrary number. Perhaps it’s a quarter, perhaps it’s three quarters. What’s to figure out? Moving the CoG? Fact is they hit so far because the clubhead is too damn big. The pro impact is high on the face of a 460 driver for max distance, so that’s taken away.

its a mess for amateurs now, as I’ve already said, I’ve played with countless ones who can hit their driver and sod all else because it rewards bad technique. Even so, it’s pretty simple to leave them alone if you insist, I want to see my idea tried in competition first

[milesgiles]

I know I asked you for proof, but what’s the relevance of a couple of long drive guys? You and I both know if they were really carrying it 300 with any sort of control they would at least have been professionals on tour in that era.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

The problem with this argument is the assumption that professionals can’t hit the sweet spot with a fast swing.

They hit the center. Doesn’t matter what club they need to use nor the tee height.

Manufacturers will design mini-“drivers” or driving “irons” to maximize performance.

As a whole, they will find a way to hit whatever club and or ball design that supposedly dumbs down higher speed swingers.

The issue I have is what it will do to the rest of us as clubs adopt the new equipment rules using the same logic that forces geriatrics to play 6700 yards in club tournaments. Everyone will suffer even slower play.

[milesgiles]

i agree, all the r and d would go into developing a smaller clubhead so yes it will go further than the mini drivers of today. I just don’t see anyway they will get near the carry of a teed up 460. There are limits to what’s physically possible. I’ve played with enough pros to know that they do miss the sweetspot a significant amount btw

how many times are amateurs told they would score better if they played a 3wood off the tee? Think it through, bring the carries back and there’s no need to be stretching courses out, seniors shouldn’t be playing courses at 6700 full stop

[mahonie]

Matt Wallace’s best carry with the persimmon driver in this video is priceless:

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

On a personal level, dumbing down the equipment won’t change my game by much. 20% reduction would simply mean I would swing all out and gain some of that back.

Yes, professionals sometimes miss as opposed to amateurs sometimes hitting the sweet spot.

Exactly, seniors should not be forced to play the back tees. I’ve been advocating for over 70 year old players to be allowed to play from 5800 yards and 6000 yards. It’s really not fair to have an 80 year old play the same tees as a 50 year old player.

[tannyhoban]

Here's what cracks me up about the USGA, the Nicklaus and Augustas and the roll it backers. For decades they and the PGA have created massive junior feeder or alternate tour programs to grow the game. And make tons more money doing it. AJGA and all the college programs getting fed, ditto the PGA. Meanwhile equipment evolved and sold. So guess what. There are a LOT of great golfers who hit the ball far.

And now the powers that be (and many jealous golfers) want to throttle it.

it's stupid.

[milesgiles]

I think that’s the advantage of changing the tee rather than the ball..on an average length course my golf is going to be barely affected. My 3 wood miss is far better than a proper driver whoosh..

it will largely affect the growing number of pros who rely on crashing it over the obstacles on a hole to score.

[milesgiles]

Probably not the thread for you tbh

[klebs01]

For those saying courses aren’t getting longer, I just looked at Bandon Dunes’ scorecard and realized they just added a new set of tees with an additional 500 yards. The demand is out there for longer course and courses are still adding yardage.

[Titleist99]

I think you speak for 90% of the golfing public...…..If we wanted to see that we'd watch our Saturday foursome.

[klebs01]

Yep. That’s why bifurcation doesn’t work. It everybody or no body. That being said, short hitters won’t really be impacted with a ball change because of their lack of solid contact. But they would still be shorter than better players.

[storm319]

That is one of the few exceptions. The vast majority of courses in the US have barely changed in the past 30 years. Many courses are more likely to close in the next decade than lengthen 500 yards...

[grm24]

Additional yardage was added for the US Amateur this year not for the every day guests of the resort.

[milesgiles]

if you roll the ball back they’ll have to swing harder, not easier! Changing to a shorter tee will mean swinging with more control, a lot of the time. Which is why amateurs will benefit..

if you want to watch them swing for the fences go watch the long drive contests..

[klebs01]

I understand. And yet it did happen and they updated scorecards and are showing it on their website. It’s happening more than people here realize. I would play those tees as a guest.

[mahonie]

Cupcake and JT were swinging for the fences a lot yesterday...nearly managed to hit them as well!

Watching 2 of the highest ranked players in the world hitting drives 70-80 yards offline just shows the biggest issue is course design. With the exception of Cupcake’s drive into the water on the last, they both had reasonable 2nd shots down the stretch even though they were so far offline.

Tom Lewis shot 61 and only hit 6 fairways...just showing that long straight driving is not a skill anymore...just smash it as hard as you can because you know you’ll have a shot into the green (with a wedge).

[milesgiles]

Yep, on one of the shortest, ‘strategic’ courses, the bombers come to the top..

Hogan is rolling in his grave

[storm319]

Neither adding length to a course nor rolling back the golf ball will change those players bomb and gouge approach (it will probably even make it worse).

[mahonie]

I agree to some extent. Adding length to a course is just a lazy approach to solving the perceived problem. Rolling back the ball also has negatives that probably outweigh the positives, although I would like to see the ball spin more off the driver. Set up courses so that if you are not in the optimum position for any shot, you are looking at bogey (unless you play a miraculous recovery shot) not a nailed on GIR with the chance of birdie.

My problem with bomb and gouge, is that the winner is not necessarily the best golfer - it’s typically the luckiest. Both JT and Cupcake had lucky bounces off trees that somehow put them back in play...that never happens to the likes of us, we get stuck behind a tree of ricochet OOB!!

In the end, JT’s short game was phenomenal and was just more lucky than Cupcake.

[smashdn]

Guy in the Persimmon group I am member of posted the youtube vid of the longdrive comp from 1984 PGA Championship at Shoal Creek. Few carries of 300+ but several drives of 300 plus with standard steel shaft and persimmon heads, in summertime Alabama humidity. Normal tees as best I could tell.

 

So back to today, even knowing that an upward angle of attack in the +4-5* range is "optimal" for distance, many tour pros are level or some even negative AoA and still pipe it out there. There is no doubt in my mind that tour pro could carry today's three wood 300 yards with a 1/2" tee. Give them a month to get a spoon (2 wood) dialed-in and it would be a given for the longest guys. Somewhere 12-12.5* of loft. Just a hair bit stronger than a string three wood. (BD may have to throttle back a bit.)

[smashdn]

Sometimes the masses need to be told what to like. And what the masses want may not be best for Golf. The PGA Tour variety of golf may not be best for Golf. I'd be careful of tying the masses and entertainment value to the integrity of the Game.

[smashdn]

Why do you think both of those things?

[QuigleyDU]

I love that this thread is banging away again..