USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[ThinkingPlus]

If something insane like this were implemented the tee makers would add little spider legs around the tee so the tee would sit on the ground surface. Top of the tee would be 1/2" above ground/grass level.

[klebs01]

I assumed he meant it would be 1/2 above the ground but was curious how was going to define the 1/2”. This is why I said there would be issues with implementation. He said it like it was simple but really didn’t define anything.

[ThinkingPlus]

Yes. Half inch above hard pan is quite a bit different than half inch above plush grass.

[klebs01]

Maybe we should all go old school like Laura Davies and just whack the ground to push up a clump and tee off on that.

[Bad9]

Pretty sure the ProVksmarked as practice are those used by the pros on the range at tournaments, collected up and sold and not some sort of shortened practice ball, ie it’s the normal ball.

[storm319]

This is not true. Titleist balls marked "Practice" are batches that fail cosmetic/cover QA (generally paint or stamping issues). Other than that, the balls are 100% the same and completely new balls. There have been times where balls collected from tour ranges have been sold from other companies (TaylorMade is the most recent example I can think of), but that is not the case for the retail Titleist practice balls (they do this for both ProV1s and their surlyn models).

[Bad9]

I think we agree that “practice” balls are the normal retail ball. The post I replied to implies that they are some type of shortened pro ball which is the point I was disagreeing with

[milesgiles]

You’ll find professional tee boxes are mowed a little lower than your city muni.

besides, I clarified a while ago that half inch was an arbritrary example. Could be a quarter inch, could be an inch and a half. Whatever makes sense from a launch monitor point of view

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Could be 3.5", could be 1/8", could be a foot. Who knows? Simple fix.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

That is a 3W off a 1/4” tee, but he doesn’t play very well overall due to lack of practice, and possibly talent in other skills? Lol.

We suggested long drive, and he winced.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

40 Compression? Will that really reduce the distances? I’m not a ball expert but my son’s ex-team mate hit hex soft plenty far?

[OrangeGravy]

[milesgiles]

 

go with the half inch (12.5mm) tee..

give everyone those, what’s the issue? You’ll only be able to poke it so far out of the ground without it falling over

[milesgiles]

If it was 295;total, doesn’t that prove my point?

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

295 carry and something like 345 total. He had me “clock his swing” that day. He’s an exception for an amateur.

So, if we were all forced to use a 1/2” tee, pros would not lose much distance at all. They’d swing more like my son and get even longer distances than he while the rest of us would simply suffer.

[mahonie]

Mr Arcadia...get your son to get proficient with his wedges from 120 yards in and he’ll be No. 1 in no time ?

[milesgiles]

Well in your post where you quoted the launch monitor you said Total so I’m confused now.

regardless, that’s as fast as anyone swings on tour and he doesn’t carry it 300. That’s the whole point. It’s going to be substantially less on a golf course under pressure trying to hit the fairway.

[milesgiles]

why don’t you try contributing rather than heckling from the peanut gallery?

[munichop]

No tee at all for pros

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

That was on the course, but I agree in competition he’ll never swing that fast. He wanted to swing as fast as he could and had me “clock” his swing speed.

First, current Tour players have a lot more in reserve than most think, and I think most can swing as fast or faster.

As a group, Tour players will simply get bigger and stronger to accommodate any shorter equipment. They will hit just as far.

The downside is that club tournaments will use “compliant” equipment, and as a consequence, normal players will end up using the same said equipment.

They will do so for the very same reasons that players play back tees even though they clearly can’t reach. Even 15 handicaps who keep everything in play simply can’t reach.

That will slow pace of play.

[Bad9]

Agree with your points on what amateurs will do and it’s affect on pace of play

[Mudguard]

They are normal ball, just usually cosmetic issues. And you can use them in competition. You cannot use X-OUTS though, but I think it's been a long time since they were provided as range balls. The point is, you can't buy those practice balls, so they're in essence a pro only option (even though they're not in play), that's why I don't think it would be a big issue for the ball manufacturers to tweak something specifically for professionals. I think what makes a ball change more elegant, as it's easier to police compared to say a max tee length.

Amateurs will just use the normal ball.

[Mudguard]

I think it's the spin rates that would go up on low compression balls. That was the break through with the Pro V, it essentially combined Pinnacle distance with Balata spin. No one had done that before. So forcing a low compression ball would probably see spin rates sky rocket.

I guess.

[storm319]

Amazon.com : Titleist Pro V1 Practice Golf Balls, White (One Dozen) : Standard Golf Balls : Sports & Outdoors

[Mudguard]

I should have quantified that. Not sold in normal outlets. Least not in NZ.

[storm319]

Not True. All other things equal, a lower compression ball will spin less. However, a lower compression ball will deform more at impact causing a higher loss of energy which will result in lower ball speed but not likely as much as what has been suggested for a rollback. If the USGA were to roll any regulation back for the ball, it would be the reducing the initial velocity limit and overall distance standard.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

K. I think your proposed tee height restriction is ridiculous, in part because you’ve said 1/2” 47 times, but now say it’s arbitrary. But mostly because it’s unworkable given different turf characteristics.

I also don’t care about so-called classic courses. If they were that classic, maybe they would be better able to stand the test of time. If your main defenses are bunkers at the corners at 275, maybe you’re not that classic and timeless after all.

I also think people should chill out and just watch pros play golf, or not. If they don’t like the way pros play golf, they should watch themselves play golf, or soccer, or something.

[milesgiles]

DJ was clocked swinging flat out a while ago at 129, he said ‘that’s all I’ve got’. Finau a bit faster. Dechambeau is very obviously flat out on the course and under that. Bottom line, the three longest tour players, flat out, can’t carry it 300 off a short tee. Or barely.agree they will continue getting bigger and stronger regardless. Disagree that means do nothing. Disagree they will get anywhere near where they are now.the average 18 handicap will play better with a shorter, straighter club, and the rest of their game will improve as well. 460 clubs are responsible for terrible technique and the lack of improvement of the average golfer. They will improve the pace of play as they will be in the fairway more and won’t have to play a particularly long course/back tees

[milesgiles]

my original thinking was the blue or red castle tees illustrated, so half inch or slightly more. I stand by that, I just didn’t know the exact measurement until I found that diagram. You actually aren’t allowed a tee over 3” now, so how is that ‘workable’? Who is measuring?

you don’t sound very old, 300 yards used to be a par 4. They couldn’t possible have envisaged drivers carrying 330 in the air, or specifically the absolute state of golfs ruling bodies that got us into this situation. 460 club heads are the worst thing to happen to the game, even ahead of long putters.

People aren’t watching golf. One of the objections to the rescheduled Masters is that it’s game 11 of the football season or something.. and that’s the second biggest tournament there is!

[trilerian]

You keep making your first statement as if it is fact. Simply put, you don't know what a pro can or can't do with a driver optimized to hit off a shorter tee. Let me repeat that, YOU DON'T KNOW! You have been shown videos of pros hitting drivers off the deck (even harder than hitting off a 1/2" tee) that have carried darn near 300 yds (and I'm pretty sure one of them did as it pitched in the middle of the green) and you say they are anomalies. You have been shown golfers carrying their 3w 290 yds and you say it isn't 300 yds. BUT IT'S A 3W! And yet you seem to think a driver optimized to hit off a smaller tee will not gain at least 10 more yards of carry. As far as reasonable arguments are concerned, it is more reasonable to believe that after the equipment manufacturers re tune their drivers, the distance lost will not be that great.

 

As to your 3rd point. Most amateurs that I've seen who can't hit their driver well, can't hit their 3w well either. A 3w has a much smaller head, has more loft and is a shorter club, yet amateurs still slice it, duff it, skull it, shank it, pop fly it. You name the bad shot and they still hit them. A smaller less forgiving club head will not be a panacea for amateurs. Also remember, you will be making all the amateurs buy a new driver because their current one will not be playable.

 

The biggest problem I have with your posts is that you state your arguments as if they are fact. But they are not, they are your opinions. And more, they are your opinions not based off any studies, but based solely on how you perceive things. Which is fine, except you state them as fact! You ask other people to prove you wrong, yet you haven't proven your argument to begin with.

 

Now, here is my opinion. I don't think anything needs to be done for amateurs. According to strokes gained the farther we hit it off the tee, the better we will score... I shot my personal best yesterday and I only hit 3 fairways, but I did hit 9 GIR plus a couple more that hit the fringe all because my drives were long enough to get me mid irons into the green. But you want to knock 20 yds off my tee shots so I have long irons in instead of mid irons... Statistically speaking, which way do I score better?

Also my opinion, I don't think anything needs to be done with the pros either. If a classic course is too short, don't play there as a tour stop. That simple. Golfers will still want to play the classic courses. There could never be another Open championship at The Old Course, but I still want to go play it. As far as I'm concerned, they (PGA Tour) should just build a handful of "super stadium" courses and have all the tour stops at those.