USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[grm24]

Interesting the additional distance for Bandon Dunes shows up or their digital yardage guide however the added distance for BD is not listed on the actual picture of its scorecard. I wonder if they will allow play from the new tees after the US Amateur is done. Digital Course Preview by Envisage Golf Bandon Dunes | Bandon Dunes Golf

[Mudguard]

The only issue I have with professional distances is if courses I like watching being played (typically British Open venues) start dropping off the rota. The ruling bodies can do whatever they like to the professional game. It's us plebs they need to think of when they change rules.

[freowho]

"one last time" is popular.

[freowho]

I agree. The way he was able to spray it all over the place and win is doing a disservice to the game. Was it right that Tom Lewis hit 6 fairways in his 61? Unless he chipped in 10 times that is also doing a disservice. They need to pick better courses to find out who the best player is which is the main point of having a professional tour isn't it?

[sevenputts]

The game is fine. Leave the limits where they are at. Jack doesn’t want his records touched maybe ? Same with the USGA ? Seems like a selfish endeavor to me.. What is exactly being threatened here ? The game needs to be exciting to grow and the game needs to grow..

[milesgiles]

They excel at the game the way it is played now.. hit it as hard as possible and hope for the best. Look at how inconsistent top 10 players are, DJ was shooting 80s a couple of weeks ago, Koepka was missing cuts..

this is how it goes for a pro now: 72 tee shots on a week. 54 are par 4s or 5s. Probably 18 are not drivers (forced layup etc).

that leaves 36 flat out drivers. Statistically, 10-15 won’t be in the fairway. If it’s your week, that handful of drives will be playable without penalty. If it isn’t, they’ll be behind tress, ob, in water, etc etc.

you could ease back, but with the current setup of courses you’ll have more club into the hole, less scoring opportunities and simply won’t get into contention. Rahm was number 1 for a week.. and never got near the business end of the next tournament. This is going to happen a lot going forward, no dynasties, random never heard of before or since winners, few multiple major winners (there was a stink on here about Rahm being number 1 without winning a major)..

welcome to the casino of the pga tour. Be lucky.

[milesgiles]

Jack won’t have his records touched with the current setup for the reasons ive just explained.

Is golf exciting now? Viewing and participation would suggest otherwise. Certainly more courses shutting than opening in the U.K.

[sevenputts]

How about trying one tournament at 6,700 to 6,900 yards. Rough gets VERY severe at 310 to 420 yards on the par 4’s and 5’s ? Just one tournament..

[milesgiles]

clearly unfair.. you can’t penalise long hitting, but you can and should lessen its importance. Heavy rough on the entire hole or nothing

[storm319]

Pretty sure viewership and participation are doing much better than the era that you want to move the pro game back to.

[mahonie]

I’m afraid not. Average age of Sky Golf viewer in UK is 57 and less than 5% of the audience is under 25.

I looked at the viewing figures for the WGC Bridgestone for the equivalent week in 2018 and 100k viewers for the 3rd round was the highest recorded.

*edit - link not working and I can’t delete it - sorry. Weekly top 10 programmes on TV sets (July 1998 – Sept 2018) | BARB

[Bad9]

If someone could compare pre Tiger viewing and participation vs today would be a better gauge IMHO. Tiger fuelled a boom that couldn’t and didn’t last. I don’t wast his much pro golf outside of the majors and LPGA but today’s product is more watchable than pre Tiger era

[milesgiles]

Of the dozens of golfers I know I can barely think of one who would make an actual point of watching beyond the Open, Masters and Ryder Cup. And I’m not sure about the first two. It’s something to have on in the background while you read a book.

perhaps it’s somewhat like F1.. it’s become too safe. No risk of a top or a duff with a 460 head.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

This sort of generalization is very difficult to make.

Yesterday, my son hit my 3W 345 yards after he sliced off the course with his driver. He then proceeded to hit three more 300+ yard drives with it. He’s always had trouble with driver, but never with woods. Still carries a driver because he waits for those moments when he does connect those 330 yard carries.

Professionals will easily be capable of repeating what he can do with a 3W with more accuracy and repeatability.

These arguments of throttling back equipment are fruitless.

Suggestions ranging from steel shafts, smaller heads, 1/2” tees, dimple patterns and whatnot are all deeply flawed. They are all projections of things what would shorten the distances the person who suggested the changes. None of them would apply to a male professional, and some are likely very difficult to enforce.

I would suggest that the throttle downers group together on a private thread to brainstorm a method that could actually work before attempting to make any suggestions on an open forum?

Projection of one’s own abilities makes for a very poor argument when applying to a professional.

[smashdn]

Everything is flawed if you are looking for a flaw. Especially if "players won't want to do that" is chief among them.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

And how many people watched Sky Golf in 1975?

[mahonie]

5.5m watched the Open in 2014 on the BBC...I’m guessing the figures were much higher in 1975 when the only options were watching re-runs of Kojak or Morecambe and Wise ?

[Pepperturbo]

I may disagree with one or more rulings by the USGA & R&A and some of the posted beliefs on Golfwrx but stay away from getting my panties in a wad and making blanket dislike statements over simple differences of opinion. ? The bickering ? by some people kinda brings to mind codependency (? oops I said it.) It shouldn't have to be said, NOBODY here is a USGA participatory leader or real subject matter authority so arguing as if is simply abnormal. ? Oh well.

I can't imagine the USGA or R&A making a massive change that derogatorily affects worldwide amateur golfers; like rolling all golf balls back to Balata days. [shaking head] IMO it would be a helluva lot less straining to all involved if they just make course modifications. They should STOP chasing perfection in decisions too, as that will no doubt be changed by new leadership further down the road. My 2cents.

[milesgiles]

....

300 CARRY? Half inch tee? Show me on trackman or video, srs

[storm319]

If those are based on something similar to the US Nielsen ratings, there is a lot of debate on the accuracy of the streaming platform.

The hypothesis that there is a correlation between golf broadcast viewership and the current style of play that we see on TV is weak at best (the admission of there being less media options to watch back then probably inflates those past ratings a bit). The reality is that broadcast golf has always been boring to the vast majority of the general public but the recent ratings decreases for scheduled TV in general has more to do with the paradigm shift in recent years as to how content is consumed (scheduled broadcast content is dying in favor of on demand content).

I'd be willing to bet that the age demographics for broadcast golf consumption have not changed much in the past 40 years either.

[mahonie]

The fact is, Sky has tied up the majority of the sport available for viewing in the UK and it’s not a cheap service (particularly when the population has been used to ‘free,’ good quality broadcasting since TV began). Sky’s peak for showing the Open over 4 days was 1.1m, the BBC had 1.2m for their 2 hour highlights show. Sky have bought the rights for golf coverage with advertising revenue, but as I’ve said earlier I don’t see that working for too long...if nobody’s watching, the advertisers are going want their money back.

The point is, if golf coverage on TV is only shown to the few who can afford it, the future is not going to be good. The fact that the majority of the golf they show at peak times is a very poor quality product (and I’m talking about the PGA Tour) is only going to quicken its demise - in the UK at least. The 100k watching the Bridgestone was the highest rating I could find, typically the viewing figures are down in the 20k’s.

Like most of my mates, I got hooked by watching the Open and to this day I find traditional links golf the best form of the game for both watching and playing. But looking at where the game is going in the UK at least, the combination of boring one-dimensional PGA Tour golf and the lack of availability of good quality televised coverage to the masses is very quickly leading to a lot of closed courses and turning it back into the elite sport it once was.

I can see there being a split between the PGA Tour and the rest of golf. The PGA Tour model doesn’t work outside of the US for a multitude of reasons (probably similar reasons to why American Football, basketball and baseball are not played widely outside of the US) and eventually the pressure on the ruling bodies to get golf right for the whole world and not just the PGA Tour will tell. The Distance Insight is part of that process and something will have to give one way or another in the not too distant future. I can’t see that anybody wants that split but I think a careful path needs to be followed to keep everyone happy whilst at the same time maintaining the integrity and essence of the game.

 

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

 

Not carry, total.

Sadly, posting videos requires a lot more work than it’s worth. You can choose to believe or not. Heheh.

[Mudguard]

Suggestions ranging from steel shafts, smaller heads, 1/2” tees, dimple patterns and whatnot are all deeply flawed. They are all projections of things what would shorten the distances the person who suggested the changes. None of them would apply to a male professional, and some are likely very difficult to enforce.

That's why the ball is the easiest thing to change. And it can be done at professional level only. 40 compression or something ridiculous, tour only balls. I mean tour balls basically exist anyway. All those Pro V's with Practice stamped on them? Way easier than winding back clubs or anything else. Evaluate after a year or two, ok, pros still hitting miles, make it 35... That way a promising amateur only has to adapt to the 'short' ball. The rest of us can buy Pro V's etc in the millions. Won't matter if pros use a short one or not, it will still say Pro V on the side.

But again, this is only if professional distance is a problem. If it's not then don't do anything. I only watch the majors really so perhaps I'm not the perfect candidate. It's time for bifurcation.

[milesgiles]

?

thought we were talking 3 wood off a half inch tee?

Once again.. it’s the carry that ruins the game IMO. If he’s carrying it anywhere near 300 off a half inch tee, then that’s further than anyone I’ve seen or played with, ever.

Show me his numbers off a half inch tee, any club, I’ll take your word for it..

[milesgiles]

The issue for me is what do you call ‘tour level’? Japan tour? Safari Tour? Kornferry? The next level down?

changing the ball is better than nothing but wouldn’t it be simpler to change the tee? No need for anyone to recalibrate their yardages, could be simply and immediately tried at any level of event. Would very likely benefit the average handicap player once they got used to the idea.

[Mudguard]

Well tour level would simply once you compete for money as a professional. I've no doubt there are plenty of sports that have different equipment for professionals versus amateurs. Baseball springs to mind.

[milesgiles]

Top level amateur play? Better standard than a lot of professional tours these days.

the equipment manufacturers own the players they’ll push back a lot harder against squishy balls then half inch tees I think. At least with my idea they’ll still be able to get it out there, but because it won’t carry as far it will have to threaded through the trouble rather than crashed over it.

[sevenputts]

I could get on board with that ?

[storm319]

Do you realize how low 1/2" really is? At well maintained courses, the typical tee box is mowed to 3/8" - 5/8". If you take into account the insertion depth necessary for the tee to be stable enough to support the ball, it will likely be lower than the actual grass if you are even able to get it inserted (you may as well just ban tees at this point). The tee length that companies like Epoch that have dedicated tees for use with shallower faced clubs is 1.5" and even those fail to provide much clearance above the turf on certain tee boxes.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

I've been wondering this for like three pages. I just assumed he meant 1 1/2". 1/2" would barely work on a green. It would pretty much be like one of those plastic ball markers if they held the ball.