Motorcycle move

[BirdieDoc]

Does anyone hate this move? Had my 2nd lesson and he wanted to focus on squaring the face earlier in the backswing with the added benefit of shallowing the club slightly.

Pro introduced this drill to try and talk about foreign. I was hitting rockets dead left and low that would take out woodchuck in an instant. We decided to focus on that bc long irons and driver I get a wicked hook going sometimes that goes 180 yds with 60yds left.

I cannot get this feeling at all to work. He kept saying it's a small move at transition but it feels like my wrist won't even flex anymore on the left (I'm right handed).

I feel like it's making the clubhead get way out of control and it gets lost in the downswing where I have not hit a decent drive.

Does anyone have any other thoughts on how to create a similar feel or position? We checked my grip and turn which is great. It's just my wrist does not want to flex and starts to extend a little in transition.

Just a still shot I know but the right is what we were trying to achieve. Like I said I just feel like the clubhead gets lost and I'm almost out of sync doing it.

[Nels55]

Swing change is not always easy and does not always result in immediate improvement. I have heard a story of a famous major champion pro who was making a swing change for some reason. The person observing this change watched as the pro made a swing and crushed the shot and then asked his swing coach if that was it. The answer was nope. The process repeated itself with the pro hitting beautiful shots until he skulled one and asked is that it? The coach said yes he had gotten the move on that swing. The pro smiled and said 'So that is what it feels like'. The pro then proceeded to practice the new move hitting one skud after another. The pro continued the skud session for some time until he had the new move down and then started puring the ball again.

So, the moral of the story imho is that you are paying the pro to learn so do what he or she says and work it out with him or her. Or fire the pro and find someone else!

[gentles]

I work on the same motion from time to time...yes I hate the move, because it goes against your natural inclinations

 

Slow motion, do drills where you swing with your left hand only and use your right hand to literally move the wrist into that position. Youtube search Tommy Morrisey - the kid with one arm and watch how his left wrist moves in transition

Try hitting some shots just thinking about keeping the clubface pointing down...i.e. focus on the end result rather than just the left wrist

For some people it's easier to feel more cup in the right wrist rather than flexion in the left wrist...play around with this

Do the pump drill - take a few backswings, then do the transition part down until the club is parallel with the ground (P6 if you ever hear that term used), check the face is in the right position...do that a couple more times then hit a shot slowly.

Wrap a towel or something heavy around the clubhead so you can really feel it, might make it easier to get the feeling down.

Search for the hanger drill or pick up one of the training aids that serves this purpose.

 

Just some ideas that have worked for me. Good luck OP

 

[Red4282]

It doesnt have to be made in transition. You can do it in the takeaway and keep it there. Bottom line is you want it there by p6. Anything before that doesnt really matter much. I will say that you cant just do this move and change nothing else and not expect it to go left. You are hooding the face, and to compensate for it you must rotate open, and keep hands forward at impact, otherwise its hook city.

[Warrior42111]

Just a comment on what my teacher has told me while making swing changes. Our body and mind always will want to go back to what it knows. So in my lessons we over emphasize any move we are working on. The reason is teaching your body and mind as I mentioned. If you practice it enough when you try to just play that new normal you want to go back to should be back to more ideal.

[DShepley]

If you have the face square to the path at P6, you have to rotate to keep the face square to the path, If you stall, the face will close to the path. It could also be that you are overdoing it and closing the face too much.

[trilerian]

Works great for irons, hybrids, and my 5w. Never got it to work with my driver. Creates a lot of stress on my lead knee and back, to the point where I can barely walk after a round of golf now. Now I'm looking for a more body friendly swing.

[BirdieDoc]

Never said I wasn't listening just looking for a different feel as through practice it just seems too excessive.

 

 

Thanks for the thoughts people. I will do some more slow no stuff today. Maybe try it towards the end of my backswing and not so much during transition.

[phillyspecial]

Does your pro use hackmotion with you? Amazing tool to figure out feel vs real on what wrists are doing and when during the swing. Blew my mind.

Point is, when you are applying the feel vs when it happens can be totally different things.

My experience with this feel is it can help a lot but really need to be careful with it and timing within your sequence.

[Precis1on]

If I pull the club steep while doing that move in transition, my opportunities to go left seem to go up substantially. A video would help us debug.

The move itself can be subtle. It may be easier to start that way rather than cranking the shaft hard in transition. Nearly every (if not every) elite golfer has some level of this move and it can happen at all stages of the swing. DJ being the culprit that does it super early and holds it through. Wouldn't recommend emulating that unless you can get super open at impact.

In terms of practice, I only practice transition changes swinging to the 9 o'clock position in the backswing and then making a slow, but deliberate transition move and swinging slow enough to hit a 7 iron 50 yards. I'll hit 7 slow, and then hit 3 at full speed from 9 o'clock. If I can do this and pure all of the full speed ones, then I'll move to the full swing, practicing 7 slow and 3 fast. If I cannot do it with the full swing I go back to the 9 o'clock immediately.

[Krt22]

Instead of thinking of flexing the lead wrist, think of keeping the trail wrist in extension as long as you can. Also check trail wrist at the top of the backswing. The more you extend it early, the less you need to do it in transition.

[BirdieDoc]

We haven't used any tools other than that noodle you see in the picture to visualize and prevent pulling across and I like it that way. We work on a lot of feels to make it nice to practice at home. 100% agree about timing. I feel very out of sync so I need to adjust.

This pro has already dropped about 5 off my score so I trust him. I like this idea. Going to try it on the range today. I'd post a video but right now I want to simplify how many swing ideas I get in my head. I'm seeing him again late next week for my last scheduled session.

[Nels55]

Fair enough! My bad...

[Precis1on]

 

One backswing thought and one transition thought are the max for me. I spend a lot of time with setup thoughts as well, but there's no movement so I can tinker all I want. But once things start moving, no more than one back and one transition. Everything that happens after transition is just reaction to what you've done there.

[Millbrook]

I agree with what Krt22 says.

Also have a look at the thread - Video Throw the clubhead out immediately.

I find that if you keep the trail hand in extension but begin to throw the clubhead out early by starting to uncock the lead wrist the move comes much more naturally.

I think it's because the movement in the trail wrist as it uncocks allows the move to happen whereas with a static lead wrist it inhibits it. Another way to explain it is the move requires some uncocking of the lead wrist.

This is how I find it. Tyler Ferrell says you can do it before transition or as part of transition

[David69]

I am one of those people that hates this move but also naturally struggles to close the face. First off - like many things with golf - it is backwards - not even how you rev a motorcycle - it is the opposite of what you do on a motorcycle - so it is named for a non existent motion. Nobody cranks the handle that far forward - so it is dumb to begin with. Second, when you crank your left wrist forward - unless you have muscles like spaghetti string - it feels like you are flexing your entire left tricep and shoulder muscles - which feels tense - at least until you get used to it and loosen up and stretch your entire wrist, tricep, and shoulder/back muscles. So it definitely feels awful for people who have never had to put yourself into that position in your life - and why would you - it is a stupid position that really only pertains to this dumb sport. When in nature do you ever have to crank your left wrist under? Not much. Third, it feels like - to me - that I am now pulling everything left. There is no whip or snap at the bottom of the swing when I use this. It makes me feel like Frankenstein swinging a club. If you look at the other threads here about throwing out the club at the top and all of that - or having a snap at the bottom - the various release methods - then it seems to fly in the direct opposite of all of that. It also adds lots of tension in the arms - for me - this again is the opposite of what nearly everyone advocates. I am no pro (clearly) - and I have no dog in this fight - but this is what it feels like to me. I do however like the "hangar drill" which just keeps the lead wrist flat -and gives cheap and easy guidance for "neutral" - paired with a neutral grip and the "throw it way from the top" move/feel. The one thing that this site proves is that there are MANY ways to hit the golf ball well - and not every swing feel is going to work for everyone's natural body inclinations. I will say that after a week or so of getting used to cranking your wrist - using your right hand to crank your left wrist (changing the focus of your. swing thought) - it does eventually loosen up and become easier to do. This is a stupid sport. Oh, I also have the Impact Snap device which really helped with a solid feel and release. YMMV.

[glk]

good advice on slow and short swings Brain learns better and can actually do what you intended which is obviously difficult at full speed when making a new motion.

the wrist pattern is pretty variable (like a lot of other things) - grip is an influence for sure - the only thing I've heard commented on is that all good swings have the lead wrists flexing somewhere before the end of the backswing and by impact - Tyler has a video out on this and notes that tour guys have added some 20* to 30* of flex from setup to impact - and players end up with the wrist at impact flexed, flat and extended and all but a few are extending just prior to impact.

Talking about variability, when I wandered into this video from Scott Lynn I really started getting a better appreciation of just how variable the golf movement is. The Kuch with 41% pressure on lead foot at impact driver - who would have thought, right. To me it reinforced the notion that the pattern is more important that exact numbers - match up.l

[Krt22]

If you are getting tension all the way up into your triceps, something else might be going on. You can twist the club quite a bit with just your wrists/forearms. I also found the opposite to be true with the release, the release is snappier if you are doing it with the right wrist extended, but it is absolutely different. Since the face is already mostly square, the release is mostly just the wrists uncocking. Where as if it's not extended and the face is open at P6, then you have to turn the club over with your hands to release and square the club at the same time. But yes it is a stupid sport and the move is extremely counter-intuitive. I've been working on this move for a very long time (bought Tyler's book years ago) and just recently really starting to get how and why it works well.

[David69]

I mentioned that it felt super tight and restrictive when I first started it but then loosens up after you get used to it - which takes time. But yeah, now I definitely focus more on my right wrist and having a wide - proper - takeaway/backswing instead of the left wrist. And I do try to keep loose as much as possible - but in the beginning of learning this move - it is super tight and awful - especially if you lift weights or are coming from sports where you can actually move your feet to advance an object.

[Precis1on]

For probably quite a few of us, who may pull the handle steep, combining this move with it is "miss it left" death sentence.

Because of my swing tendencies in transition (steepen with the hands and arms and shallow with the body, my right shoulder has historically been too low at the end of transition and left shoulder too high), I drill two things: 1) actions that shallow the club with my hands and wrists and 2) left shoulder stays down during transition.

For both actions, I force my body (feels like) stays very still in transition and "bow and throw". Shallowing the club with hands and wrists is a huge challenge for me and my transition almost exclusively focuses on what I visualize in my head with is "bow and throw". Wrist bows and I throw/release the club as hard as I can away from the target. All without pulling my arms down or simply leaving them up as some like to think of it. If the left shoulder goes up too early, I'm guaranteed to steepen the shaft and pull down.

 

[ferrispgm]

I'm currently working on this as well. In order to "prepare" myself to flex in transition, I was flexing quite a bit in the backswing. I started with around 25* at the top and was getting down to around 7 or 8. From there, it is hard for me to flex even more in transition and at best get to 4* at impact but sometimes add extension. I have found that optimal for me is probably in the neighborhood of 15- 20* at the top and then I can get to around -5* to -1* flexed at impact. Some people are better keeping it flatter at the top and maintaining that into impact.

A good drill is to take the club back to left arm parallel just as normal, stop, flex wrist, stop, then just turn/rotate through impact....probably start hitting some thin or heavy at first until you adapt. You go from that and gradually try to blend it into 1 continuous motion. The feel for me is actually very much the same as Precis1on above as I have the same issues. I basically try to hit a cut from a normal mid-stance ball position with a short iron to keep my right shoulder high.

Lastly.....I highly recommend you buy a hackmotion wrist sensor....makes things much easier and you can track your progress. You will see the actual measurements of flexion which are very difficult if not impossible to see on camera. They are costly but they have a lite version for cheaper but has the main functions. They also pop up on ebay periodically. A side benefit to me was the putting....really proves that you need a firmer grip on the club in putting to smooth out your chart lines. My putting has actually improved pretty significantly just from using it for 1 afternoon.

[chigolfer1]

Is there any reason you can't flex in the backswing? Is the idea that it's hard to keep at the top if you are flexing/closing the face on the way up?

[Precis1on]

I'll play some minor devil's advocate to a heavy flex at the top, however how you achieve the position and if it syncs with the rest of your swing is the most important.

Personally, I'm pretty flat at the top and sometimes a bit cupped. I like seeing my the numbers of my wrist bow increase at a constant rate after transition and into impact. I have a singular reason for this thought, which is to ensure that I have a one way miss, which is left. Gives me full confidence that I can apply the move every time in transition and never worry about missing right.

You can flex at the top for sure, unless you're DJ or can get your body crazy open at impact, you'll have to let some of that go unless you have the proper flex and can turn through. I personally enjoy a little hand and wrist movement to kick off my transition so I cannot hold (I will pull).

Both ways work for some, and I would guess that coaches would advocate for one or the other based on what the rest of your swing mechanics are.

[chigolfer1]

Yep, I"m "backswing' style. Exactly like Tyler says, easier for amateurs as they don't have to worry about it in transition.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNpOGqOvOEE

[ssp]

I subscribe to those adjustments early in setup and take away versus transition. I think folks should try to be as athletic in transition versus focusing on moves/positions. Just my experience.

[Krt22]

If you pull the handle and open the face in transition, you essentially cannot make an athletic move since you need to stall and flip. Flexing the lead wrist in transition is something just about every elite player does, it manages the club face early so you can make an athletic move through the ball.

[ThinkingPlus]

When I have explicitly tried the "motorcycle move" during the downswing I end up hitting the ball thin. Per Tyler the move is a shallowing move so hitting a bit thin might be expected. Anyone else run into this issue? Solutions?

[Krt22]

Tyler's book is about driving the swing with the pivot and mixing steeps/shallows, you can do this with the arms/wrists or with the body. Most ams steepen the shaft with the arms/wrists and thus have to use the body to shallow (EE, right side tilt). So if you start to shallow with the arms/wrists, you may need to balance it out with the body (ie flex in transition, keep left shoulder down). If you are doing the move well, the release pattern is a bit different as well. Some of Jake Hutt's tips on throwing the club may help

[glk]

Flexion of lead wrist is steep move but thin shots are typical of being too shallow . https://golfsmartacademy.s3.amazonaws.com/files/SteepAndShallows.pdf

[Krt22]

That is the one part of the chart I don't quite understand. If done correctly, flexion of the lead wrist just rotates the shaft and doesn't impact the shaft pitch much. Perhaps he classifies anything that closes the face as a "steep"? In general though, the model swing is to shallow mostly with the arms/wrists and keep the body steep.