Looking to Buy a New Sim Driver. Convince me

[getitdaily]

21 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Haven't most of the TM "better of the 2" drivers been fade biased (M1 vs M2, M3 vs M4, etc.) ?

 

That said, with the SIM, it wasn't very difficult to hit my preferred baby draw. Much easier for me than the M1, 3, & 5.

 

 

 

Classic example of a "1 off" (pun intended ) disproving a "rule".

 

"Hey, I was hitting a __________ driver over a pond, accidentally let go of it and now it's gone. Don't buy THAT driver"

That has been tm's trend...

[Hammer22]

55 minutes ago, bogeypro said:

That's easily one of the dumbest pictures on this site.  The camera angle is off and who knows what is going on inside the head.  The line isn't even in the center of the face.  look at the words under the face... the line didn't go their the center of them. 

 

Notice the "non-scientific" part. It's merely meant to show that the weight is offset to a position that favors a fade bias. NFS the angle of the picture is off - it was just grabbed right off the TM site for this; not like I was going to put a ton of effort in to it. If you actually look at a real head, you can see that the weight is not directly behind the center of the face, but feel free to do that on your own. Based on many comments from users of the club, apparently there isn't much going on inside to compensate since fades are common with these heads (unless the movable weight comes in to play). It was even more so with a heavier weight in the back since the CG must have shifted even more. 

[nlinneman20]

48 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

That has been tm's trend...

 

LOL and I don't care if he buys one or not, just giving my limited experience.

 

Also the guy didnt let 'anything go', he hit a drive and the crown flew off of it.  It's not like he smashed it against a tree...isn't that the point of a driver? To hit a drive and hopefully stay in one piece?

[bogeypro]

1 hour ago, Hammer22 said:

 

Notice the "non-scientific" part. It's merely meant to show that the weight is offset to a position that favors a fade bias. NFS the angle of the picture is off - it was just grabbed right off the TM site for this; not like I was going to put a ton of effort in to it. If you actually look at a real head, you can see that the weight is not directly behind the center of the face, but feel free to do that on your own. Based on many comments from users of the club, apparently there isn't much going on inside to compensate since fades are common with these heads (unless the movable weight comes in to play). It was even more so with a heavier weight in the back since the CG must have shifted even more. 

Without knowing the cg of the head,  this picture is dumb.  Maybe they are offsetting the weight of the hosel.  Maybe that isn't even the center line...  who knows?!   

[callawayjay]

Asking a wrx’er if he has tried the upright setting is akin to the satellite company asking you “did you do a reset?” On the box when it doesn’t work. 
 

of course we try ALL the settings 

[nsxguy]

5 minutes ago, callawayjay said:

Asking a wrx’er if he has tried the upright setting is akin to the satellite company asking you “did you do a reset?” On the box when it doesn’t work. 
 

of course we try ALL the settings 

 

Obviously you're never worked the Help Desk at a tech company.

 

That said I'd better start testing all my other driver settings.

[backhill]

YMMV but I gained 10 carry yards on a GC quad at Carl's Golfland going from M6 with Atmos TS Black 6x to SIM Max with Ventus Velocore 6x.  I think the shaft had more to do with it than anything since my spin was too low with the SIM head and Atmos TS Black and would get up but the low spin would give me flatter traj.  Both were 9 turned up to 10.5.  Either way, get fit for the right combo like everyone says rather than just buying and praying. 

[Dr. Block]

If you fight a push/Block, the Sim Max D is a handy little bugger.  Very forgiving 

[Lemonde]

6 hours ago, Hammer22 said:

Not scientific, but I posted this picture in another thread showing how the weight sits compared to the longitudinal axis through the center of the club face. Love my Max, but when I thought the Ventus Blue was for me despite lots of fades, I was re-fit into another shaft that is perfect (launch monitors and real world can sometimes vary). I had tried a slightly heavier weight in the back as well when playing it shorter with the old shaft, and that made it even more fade biased. My 9° head is now set at 10.5°, and even though that is stated as being 3°closed, it looks to be perfectly square. With the new shaft, I hit it mostly dead straight, with my normal baby draw occasionally popping in. 

 

 

What shaft did you move into from the Ventus blue? 

[Lemonde]

Zero gains. Upgrade every year in classic WRX fashion for something shiny and new . If you are looking to change for cosmetics alone  the TSI3 Will fit the bill.  

[Hammer22]

4 hours ago, bogeypro said:

Without knowing the cg of the head,  this picture is dumb.  Maybe they are offsetting the weight of the hosel.  Maybe that isn't even the center line...  who knows?!   

 

Maybe this will make you feel better. From directly below the center of the club face (the obvious dot), and going back perpendicular to the lower edge, it's still easy to see that the weight is offset. Yeah, who knows if there is any compensation inside or with the hosel, but considering that is what the 'D' version is for, and most guys are commenting about a fade bias in the others, it's not that hard to see why. I can state from experience that adding a heavier weight in that back port definitely made the fade worse. 

 

 

49 minutes ago, Lemonde said:

What shaft did you move into from the Ventus blue? 

 

The Diamana S+, in 60X & 70X. It's stock in the Ti 3-wood, so luckily I saved the original to put back in. Picked up a new pull for the driver off eBay, and am very happy. Even if it's a made-for version, it's a great shaft, and when I compared the made-for Ventus with the VeloCore model in the same fashion, I couldn't tell any difference out on the course. 

 

[llewol007]

Its all personal gains really. The Sim might or might not give you the gains you are looking for so go test one out before buying one. Believe me if you are using Golf Digest's top rated equipment tested by people of varying handicaps to make you buy something then good luck. Sims are awesome. Sorta reminds me of a M6 in blue and composite designs with no added change. Up to you to grab one. The Titliest is just as okay too so which ever gets you hitting it longer and staying in the short grass is the one to go with.

[tjcarsillo]

Added 3 grams of hot melt to my 9 degree and love it with tensei pro white 

[rxk9fan]

Played TS3 with EvenFlow white 6.0 much of the year.  I loved the look and feel, but I did not find it forgiving of my sins.  I went to the Mavrik Max with Riptide 5.5.  I sprayed it all over creation and took the mature route 2 weeks ago and busted the shaft over my knee on hole 15.  I put a hazrdus black 6.0 in it last week for the club championship and was 1 over when I violently sent one into the trees.  Maturely snapped that shaft in two on hole 17.  

I picked up a Sim Max with Ventus blue and up to now have not missed a fairway.  I know it is a swing thing more than anything BUT I feel like I can put semi crap swings on the Sim Max and results are pretty darn good.  I got on the monitor today and for some reason vs the Mavrik Max session last week my average drive was 12 yards further.  I think head and shaft are just working well for me and my swing is more free.

FWIW, 62 years old and driver SS average was 100.4 today.  That was also up from last week.  HC has gone from 6 to almost 10 this summer as my driving woes have been very punitive on my tree lined, 132 slope home course.

[JDennis]

I tried one earlier this year. It always went to the right. The associate told me that Cobra just lowered the price on the 19 model and for grins I said let me try it (never have owned a cobra club). Hit it and fell in love. It reminded me of my 16' M2, straight and long. Ended up with the F9 driver and 3 wood. 

[iNeedMoreGolf]

If you like high to the right and sledge hammery feel... this is for you. If you like solid soft ting or crack going the trajectory and direction u like then callaway drivers are for you. Thats my opinion.

[Taylormadehunter1]

Had a SiM and a SiM Max at different times this season. Regular SiM is long, very long but if you fight going right, it’s not the club for you. Max was a little shorter, a little straighter and didn’t seem to naturally want to go right. Both nice clubs but I’d hit them outdoors first before buying. 

[Holeoot]

I recently ditched a Sim max... was getting a two way miss, had rounds with Aldila Rogue Silver, Ventus blue and also a tensei blue... could not get this club to work... wasn’t getting the ball speeds I had expected either. 
 

It wasn’t any longer than my G400 max, just got a fitting recently for the Mavrik SZ, weight at the back and -1 deg and Im seeing 4.5mph ball speed increase, avg of 10 yrd carry increase and a consistent little draw... 

 

For reference I’ve played M2 16, M2 17 both of which I found more fade biased than Sim Max.

[Valtiel]

On 9/10/2020 at 9:03 AM, nsxguy said:

 

Haven't most of the TM "better of the 2" drivers been fade biased (M1 vs M2, M3 vs M4, etc.) ?

 

That said, with the SIM, it wasn't very difficult to hit my preferred baby draw. Much easier for me than the M1, 3, & 5.

 

 

 

Classic example of a "1 off" (pun intended ) disproving a "rule".

 

"Hey, I was hitting a __________ driver over a pond, accidentally let go of it and now it's gone. Don't buy THAT driver"

That definitely fits with the SIM's pretty heavy fade bias. And you're mostly right there. In neutral settings, the 2016 M1 was slightly fade biased, the 2017 M1 was slightly draw biased, the M3 was pretty neutral, the M5 was heavily fade biased, and the SIM appears heavily fade biased as well. A godsend for those that hate the toe miss but as you've found, can be tricky for those that play a little draw, especially if that draw tends to come from *slight* toe side contact. 
 

On 9/9/2020 at 12:42 PM, cgasucks said:

What real world gains?

 

 

With all due respect here, this is possibly the worst type of test to draw any meaningful conclusions from. He said he hit both SIM shots poorly, its howling wind, and he is hitting precept range balls. I mean c'mon, from a scientific standpoint this does not even qualify for the lowest level of evidence. 

[Valtiel]

On 9/10/2020 at 8:41 AM, bogeypro said:

That's easily one of the dumbest pictures on this site.  The camera angle is off and who knows what is going on inside the head.  The line isn't even in the center of the face.  look at the words under the face... the line didn't go their the center of them. 

 

On 9/10/2020 at 10:47 AM, bogeypro said:

Without knowing the cg of the head,  this picture is dumb.  Maybe they are offsetting the weight of the hosel.  Maybe that isn't even the center line...  who knows?!   

That is more than a bit harsh/hyperbolic because @Hammer22 is right. The heavy weight is shifted a little bit toe side from center, and that actually lines up perfectly for where the measured CG is for the standard SIM (which we do know). Without that info, yes it would be speculation because that slightly toe side weight could be compensating for other weight distribution factors, but since we do know based on GolfTec's measurements, it supports Hammer's observation.  

[bogeypro]

7 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

That is more than a bit harsh/hyperbolic because @Hammer22 is right. The heavy weight is shifted a little bit toe side from center, and that actually lines up perfectly for where the measured CG is for the standard SIM (which we do know). Without that info, yes it would be speculation because that slightly toe side weight could be compensating for other weight distribution factors, but since we do know based on GolfTec's measurements, it supports Hammer's observation.  

Do you mean this cg chart from golftec?  The sim max cg seems to be fairly centered.  I think this shows that you can't determine the cg location by looking at a picture or by drawing a line on a picture.  The fact that the weight sits slightly toe side didn't mean the cg is far bias.   

[Valtiel]

1 minute ago, bogeypro said:

Do you mean this cg chart from golftec?  The sim max cg seems to be fairly centered.  I think this shows that you can't determine the cg location by looking at a picture or by drawing a line on a picture.  The fact that the weight sits slightly toe side didn't mean the cg is far bias.   

I was referring to the SIM standard as I stated in my post, which we can see is more fade biased in its standard configuration than the draw biased version is draw biased. And I did not suggested otherwise, in fact I literally stated that without CG location information that yes, you can not determine CG placement by just looking at the head. 

I was mostly responding to the completely unnecessary "dumbest pictures on this site" which is both rude and inaccurate. Howard Jones has used similar images to illustrate vertical VG, and the location of discretionary weight in the relation to the center of the face is plenty relevant as part of the story. 

[IL2AZ]

I am no engineer, but I think the slightly toe side inertia generator weight is positioned that way for aerodynamics as TM has stated it offsets the angle of the club on the downswing to minimize drag.  On the Sim Max, the sole toe side is carbon fiber (presumably lighter) while the sole heel side is metal (presumably heavier) to offset the toe side inertia generator weight resulting in the Golftec measured CG being nearly centered from a heel-toe standpoint.

[mylesb21]

On 9/15/2020 at 7:28 PM, rxk9fan said:

Played TS3 with EvenFlow white 6.0 much of the year.  I loved the look and feel, but I did not find it forgiving of my sins.  I went to the Mavrik Max with Riptide 5.5.  I sprayed it all over creation and took the mature route 2 weeks ago and busted the shaft over my knee on hole 15.  I put a hazrdus black 6.0 in it last week for the club championship and was 1 over when I violently sent one into the trees.  Maturely snapped that shaft in two on hole 17.  

I picked up a Sim Max with Ventus blue and up to now have not missed a fairway.  I know it is a swing thing more than anything BUT I feel like I can put semi crap swings on the Sim Max and results are pretty darn good.  I got on the monitor today and for some reason vs the Mavrik Max session last week my average drive was 12 yards further.  I think head and shaft are just working well for me and my swing is more free.

FWIW, 62 years old and driver SS average was 100.4 today.  That was also up from last week.  HC has gone from 6 to almost 10 this summer as my driving woes have been very punitive on my tree lined, 132 slope home course.

Based upon your previous comments, another bad round and that combo is getting snapped too? ? We all have bad driving days even with the best driver setup. 

[RxGolf1]

Spin is way too low with SIM...and I am normally a high spin player with driver

[Hammer22]

Borrowed these pictures from a thread where a crown popped off. Shows there is really nothing structually inside the head to compensate for the weight being off center (unless the hot melt is the norm). Granted it is a SIM, but I imagine there isn't a heck of a lot of difference with the Max (other than the obvious lack of the weight track). Would be nice to see what the Max-D looks like since there is an actual weight in there to add the draw bias. Even with what the GT picture shows as far as CG (very interesting, by the way), it's still hard to discount how many people are saying the heads are so fade biased.

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Hammer22

[getitdaily]

13 minutes ago, Hammer22 said:

Borrowed these pictures from a thread where a crown popped off. Shows there is really nothing structually inside the head to compensate for the weight being off center (unless the hot melt is the norm). Granted it is a SIM, but I imagine there isn't a heck of a lot of difference with the Max (other than the obvious lack of the weight track). Would be nice to see what the Max-D looks like since there is an actual weight in there to add the draw bias. Even with what the GT picture shows as far as CG (very interesting, by the way), it's still hard to discount how many people are saying the heads are so fade biased.

 

 

 

That second pic is a good one and appears to indicate that:

1. The back weight isn't as far toe side as it appears externally

2. There's a decent chunk of weight added in the heel to help reduce fade bias.

 

Still definitely a fade biased driver. But I'm beginning to believe that the hard right miss folks getting are more about the face being open MORE than the fade CoG. CoG just exacerbates the face open issue.

 

Now that tournament season is over, I'm going to try setups with the club set one click up in loft with a touch more fade bias in the front track (or a heavier backweight). I've been looking for a reason to go from the bridgestone tour b xs to the b x and driver spin was my only limiter. May be able to add enough spin to be able to play the b x. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by getitdaily