Should I be playing from the White tees? I prefer Blue tees. What do you guys play?

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

If I played from the most forward tees on my home course and many courses, I'd be Driver, Gap, Sand or less into most par 4's--- and as a bogey golfer I still wouldn't shoot par. 

 Why?

[Deceptively Short]

I would suggest that to enable most players to have a set of tees that they could shoot par from (so in due course they could move back to further test their game) you would need a set of tees that would give a course rating in the low 50’s. I don’t know of any ‘normal’ course anywhere with such a facility- do they exist?

[James the Hogan Fan]

I am glad I don't have to shoot par to play from tees other than the front, I really don't think I would still be playing golf. I'd still be shooting 29-33 on par 3 courses and bored out of my mind. 

 

I play tips at my course with a goal of breaking 80. My best is 80 on the number, worst is 92. From the yellows, one tee up, I have my best as 80, and my worst as 94. Average from tips 85.4, from yellows 86.8. (One round from the senior tees was 75, and I don't believe I hit a full iron aside from par 3's.. which was fun-ish)

 

Tips 6820, Yellows 6372, Seniors 6005. 

 

I don't see shooting par as the ultimate measure of my enjoyment of the game. At the moment that pursuit is breaking 80, and that's good enough for me.

[Mr. Bean]

17 hours ago, Deceptively Short said:

I would suggest that to enable most players to have a set of tees that they could shoot par from (so in due course they could move back to further test their game) you would need a set of tees that would give a course rating in the low 50’s. I don’t know of any ‘normal’ course anywhere with such a facility- do they exist?

 

On some courses there are tees that are set for the beginners. My home courses used to have those as well and they were rated. The length must have been something like 2800 meters or so (normal 18 holes 4/10/4). I would have liked to try them but for that one needs the course to be more or less empty. Unfortunately they were removed, do not know why. My par would have been 64 (out of 72) so it would have been interesting to see how close I could have got.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

20 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 Why?

Inherent variability in ball striking.  It's the life of a bogey golfer.  

[Mr. Bean]

36 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Inherent variability in ball striking.  It's the life of a bogey golfer.  

 

Even if you change your driver-gap combo into fairway wood-9iron combo?

 

One would think occasional errors are compensated by occasional successes (= birdies). After all, with clubs equal or shorter than 9iron one should hit the green minimum 17/18. Even a bogey golfer. Unless you have very small greens and/or very difficult ones.

[teejaywhy]

On 10/19/2020 at 7:53 AM, FakeClubPro said:

Average golf hacker here who drives it total about 210 to 215.  Late 50s.   It seems like all the people at the local course play the white tees.  For some reason I have always liked playing the blue tees.  I am sure I would score a lot better but I think the white tees are less of a challenge.  The tips are a bit too long for me.

 

What tees do you play?

 

 

Unless you are very new to golf, you know that the "blue tees" at your course may in no way be similar in length or difficulty to the "blue tees" at my course.

 

Here is how I do it:

 

I'm a recreational golfer with modest skills.   I play golf to have fun.   A good course and properly chosen tee box should yield an interesting variety of short, medium and long shots.

 

I have a general idea of the overall length that is fun for me to play.   Too long - long irons/hybrid/fw wood to every par 4 = not fun.   Too short, wedge in every hole = not fun.  

 

So for a new course I'm not familiar with, I look for the tees with the approximate length I like, then I look at the rating/slope to get a general idea of the difficulty.    More difficult and I might move to a shorter tee, easier and I might move back.   Other factors are considered such as wind and weather, ground conditions dry or wet... etc.

 

 

 

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Even if you change your driver-gap combo into fairway wood-9iron combo?

 

One would think occasional errors are compensated by occasional successes (= birdies). After all, with clubs equal or shorter than 9iron one should hit the green minimum 17/18. Even a bogey golfer. Unless you have very small greens and/or very difficult ones.

 

17/18 greens with 9 iron or less ??? A bogey golfer ?   To paraphrase "Sally", "I'll have what you're having". 

 

You must have some awfully good "bogey golfers" sandbaggers in Finland.

 

With all the skulls, chunks, tops and other mishits a bogey golfer makes, a good shot would be finding the green, never mind having a makeable birdie putt.

 

17/18 greens with 9 iron or less ? I'll take that bet every day of the week. 

[Mr. Bean]

2 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

17/18 greens with 9 iron or less ??? A bogey golfer ?   To paraphrase "Sally", "I'll have what you're having". 

 

You must have some awfully good "bogey golfers" sandbaggers in Finland.

 

With all the skulls, chunks, tops and other mishits a bogey golfer makes, a good shot would be finding the green, never mind having a makeable birdie putt.

 

17/18 greens with 9 iron or less ? I'll take that bet every day of the week. 

 

In my books a bogey golfer is a person playing rounds of 90-95 from the men's tee (sorry ladies...) regularly. Also I have an idea what are the general pitfalls of a bogey golfer around here. Combining those and adding a course where the longest club when approaching a green would be 9iron (never seen one) I stand by my words.  

[nsxguy]

1 minute ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

In my books a bogey golfer is a person playing rounds of 90-95 from the men's tee (sorry ladies...) regularly. Also I have an idea what are the general pitfalls of a bogey golfer around here. Combining those and adding a course where the longest club when approaching a green would be 9iron (never seen one) I stand by my words.  

 

No worries, I stand by mine as well. 👍

[Unplayablelies]

Depends a bit on the course. I look at yardages on the par fours....if I’m going to have more than a a 7i into most of the pars fours ....I’m moving up a set

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Even if you change your driver-gap combo into fairway wood-9iron combo?

 

One would think occasional errors are compensated by occasional successes (= birdies). After all, with clubs equal or shorter than 9iron one should hit the green minimum 17/18. Even a bogey golfer. Unless you have very small greens and/or very difficult ones.

There's no doubt that it may help improve scores but it still doesn't fix the variability that are score killers; chunked and skulled shots as well as putting woes that plagues every bogey golfer.  

 

I agree with you that it's fun to play different (often shorter) tees occasionally.  I'll be lobbying for that with my friends next season to help make our home course a bit more interesting.  But I don't agree with another posters prescription that someone should play from the most forward tees until shooting par.  That's bad advice for a variety of reasons and is why no golf organizations have such recommendation.

[James the Hogan Fan]

3 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

17/18 greens with 9 iron or less ??? A bogey golfer ?   To paraphrase "Sally", "I'll have what you're having". 

 

You must have some awfully good "bogey golfers" sandbaggers in Finland.

 

With all the skulls, chunks, tops and other mishits a bogey golfer makes, a good shot would be finding the green, never mind having a makeable birdie putt.

 

17/18 greens with 9 iron or less ? I'll take that bet every day of the week. 

 

The instruction forum had a "drop a ball 100 yards out on every hole" challenge and 6 caps reported missing a handful of greens. That's inside 9 iron for most.

 

I did it myself, missed a number of greens, (as  7 cap) and did not have a single birdie (ie hole-in-2). Though 17/18 from 9 iron and in is certainly an admirable thing to strive for, it's not happening, and its really not happening for a bogey golfer.

[dan360]

Course length is merely one component. 

[Cwing]

Spoiler

 

 

[Mr. Bean]

9 hours ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

 

The instruction forum had a "drop a ball 100 yards out on every hole" challenge and 6 caps reported missing a handful of greens. That's inside 9 iron for most.

 

 

Now that is really pathetic!! A 6 cap misses a handful of greens hitting a wedge in?!? Unreal...

[PappyVanWinkle53]

17 hours ago, Cwing said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Below 150, it should just say "find another sport"

[DavePelz4]

23 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

17/18 greens with 9 iron or less ??? A bogey golfer ?   To paraphrase "Sally", "I'll have what you're having". 

 

You must have some awfully good "bogey golfers" sandbaggers in Finland.

 

With all the skulls, chunks, tops and other mishits a bogey golfer makes, a good shot would be finding the green, never mind having a makeable birdie putt.

 

17/18 greens with 9 iron or less ? I'll take that bet every day of the week. 

 

The tour average from less than 100 yards is 83.4%. Even the best miss sometimes, unless you live in Finland I guess.

 

GIR PERCENTAGE - < 100 YARDS

Season

2020
2020
 
Time Period

Year-To-Date through
Year-To-Date through
 
Tournament

TOUR Championship
TOUR Championship
TOUR Average 84.86

[chippa13]

9 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Now that is really pathetic!! A 6 cap misses a handful of greens hitting a wedge in?!? Unreal...

Weird. I saw a whole bunch of guys on tv this weekend missing greens with their wedges. I guess they were really pathetic, too.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, chippa13 said:

Weird. I saw a whole bunch of guys on tv this weekend missing greens with their wedges. I guess they were really pathetic, too.

 

From 100 yards..? And a handful per player..? Really??

 

I bet in their own minds they felt being pathetic...

Edited November 16, 2020 by Mr. Bean

[ThinkingPlus]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

From 100 yards..? And a handful per player..? Really??

 

I bet in their own minds they felt being pathetic...

It's because low score wins, not most GIRs.  Scratch golfers actually average slightly more GIRs than pros.  Even bogey players will recognize, under certain circumstances, that missing a green can lead to a better score than hitting the green in a poor location.  This is especially true for larger greens.

 

[Mr. Bean]

33 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

It's because low score wins, not most GIRs.  Scratch golfers actually average slightly more GIRs than pros.  Even bogey players will recognize, under certain circumstances, that missing a green can lead to a better score than hitting the green in a poor location.  This is especially true for larger greens.

 

 

So... the test was not about hitting the green from 100 yards but trying to score the best, is that what you are trying to say?

 

And what you say about bogey players is a lot of b***. If they cannot hit the green when they should they certainly cannot miss the green in such a way that it would be more beneficial than hitting the green. Honestly, man.

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, DavePelz4 said:

 

The tour average from less than 100 yards is 83.4%. Even the best miss sometimes, .

 

 

Indeed, but those guys miss the green sometimes on purpose.

 

And to further elaborate this: if your only goal is to hit the green your percentage will grow. Once you aim for the flag or the best place to putt for birdie you will end up missing the green more often.

 

As always, we end up talking about different things.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Mr. Bean

[Mr. Bean]

No problem, guys. Thursday is predicted to be a fair day for golf. If the weather is what it is supposed to be I will play a round of golf, and during that round I will perform this 100 yds test. Will report it here later.

[ThinkingPlus]

26 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

So... the test was not about hitting the green from 100 yards but trying to score the best, is that what you are trying to say?

 

And what you say about bogey players is a lot of b***. If they cannot hit the green when they should they certainly cannot miss the green in such a way that it would be more beneficial than hitting the green. Honestly, man.

Yes.  It is about how well you score inside 100 yards.  I agree that bogey players have a limited ability to guide their misses, but can, in a gross sense, increase the likelihood they are short or long to a pin with choice of club alone.  That only takes thought.

[DavePelz4]

The Tour also tracks GIR from inside of 75 yards and I'd guess it's very rare that someone intentionally misses a green from that range. The highest performing percentage was just under 96% so over 4 times per 100 shots the best pro misses from 75 yards.  Just as an aside, the person ranked #100 from inside 75 yards is still missing 11 times out of 100. 

 

GIR PERCENTAGE - < 75 YARDS

Season

2019

TOUR Average 88.63

[nsxguy]

8 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Indeed, but those guys miss the green sometimes on purpose.

 

 

Somehow I'm sure you're right (this time anyway ) but I'm struggling trying to think of when a tour player would miss the green on purpose.

 

Mind clarifying ?

[Fairway14]

9 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Somehow I'm sure you're right (this time anyway ) but I'm struggling trying to think of when a tour player would miss the green on purpose.

 

Mind clarifying ?

 

Maybe a long par 3 hole with a well protected green. At the 1959 US Open each day Billy Casper played the 216 yard par 3 third hole by intentionally laying up his tee shot short of the green. He made pars and ended up winning the tournament.

[James the Hogan Fan]

11 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Somehow I'm sure you're right (this time anyway ) but I'm struggling trying to think of when a tour player would miss the green on purpose.

 

Mind clarifying ?

 

I assume punch-outs from deep trouble go down in the stats as a missed green, so if a player is behind a tree from 95 its recorded?

 

Also on certain pins where a player is happy to finish on the fringe or in the fairway... but 8 feet from the hole/on the correct tier/away from trouble, as opposed to being on the wrong side of a huge green. He's not trying to miss the green, but he accepts being a foot off on the correct side as more tolerable than a 'successful' shot onto the wrong tier or something. 

 

[nsxguy]

15 minutes ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

 

I assume punch-outs from deep trouble go down in the stats as a missed green, so if a player is behind a tree from 95 its recorded?

 

Also on certain pins where a player is happy to finish on the fringe or in the fairway... but 8 feet from the hole/on the correct tier/away from trouble, as opposed to being on the wrong side of a huge green. He's not trying to miss the green, but he accepts being a foot off on the correct side as more tolerable than a 'successful' shot onto the wrong tier or something. 

 

 

Agreed. But with a "punch out" he's not trying to miss the green. He's got no other realistic choice. Then again,,,,,,,,,,

 

It appears Fairway was correct about Billy Casper. That was 60 years ago though.

 

Strangely enough I was at the US Open in the mid 70s when Irwin won and spent some time at that very same 3rd green Casper laid up on. Incredibly unfair that day. Pin was on the back shelf, maybe 5 yards deep. The first 25 yards or so of green was slightly uphill, then a somewhat severe slope up to that back shelf.

 

Can't tell you how many times balls hit the front of that green, rolled not quite up that slope and came right back to the front of that geen.

 

OR made it up that slope with a bit too much speed and rolled off the back leaving a terrifying chip that, if hit a touch too hard ended up right back on the front of the green and needing to come back up that slope again. MANY shots lost on that hole that day.

 

 

Now I "confess" that when it was said that sometimes guys miss the green on purpose" I was thinking in terms of a relatively straight forward, CLEAR shot either from the fairway. Or the rough. 

 

I wasn't thinking in terms of through or from behind trees where a player is trying to put it in a great position for a fairly simple chip rather than taking a dangerous shot with a high probability of a very poor result by trying to put it on the green.

 

So I guess in that situation I CAN see the player "missing the green on purpose". 👍